Don't feed the troll...

[Antoon Pardon]

Op 21-06-13 04:40, Ian Kelly schreef:

> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 3:41 AM, Antoon Pardon
> <antoon.pardon at rece.vub.ac.be> wrote:
>> There are two problems with your reasoning. The first is that you
>> are equivocating on "expect". "Expect" can mean you will be surprised
>> if it doesn't happen but it can also mean you will feel indignant or
>> disappointed or something similar when it doesn't happen.
>
> Perhaps I am, but it doesn't change my argument in any way.  When a
> troll shows up I am not happy about it, but I am not disappointed
> either, because Trolls Happen.  I am disappointed when members of the
> community act in ways that are detrimental to the community.  Better?

But that last one doesn't ring true. Enabling a troll is also acting
in a way that is detrimental to the community. But I haven't seen
you express disappointment in that.

Those that expressed their disappointment with the enabling behaviour
were more or less told they should deal with it. So tell me, why
should your disappointment merrit more consideration?

>
>> The second problem is that I find it a one sided view. If you want
>> a courteous, respectful, welcoming and enjoyable to participate in
>> list, shouldn't you also be careful in not encouraging trollish
>> behaviour? Being courteous to or cooperating with someone behaving
>> trollishly, is IMO enabling that kind of behaviour and so those
>> doing so, seem to already throw those priciples out the window because
>> they are cooperating with the troll who is making this list less
>> courteous, respectful, welcoming and enjoyable to participate in
>> for a significant number of people.
>
> You'll note that I haven't engaged Nikos at all in some time.  That's
> because I think he's a troll.  I think though that those who are
> continuing to help him do so because they do not think that he is a
> troll.  I am not going to try to thrust my own opinion of who is or is
> not a troll and who can or cannot be given help upon the list -- that
> is their opinion, they are entitled to it, and maybe they see
> something in the exchange that I don't. 

That doesn't change one bit of the fact they are enabling someone
who exhibits assholery behaviour. Who since he started here has
regularly changed his identity, yet these enablers keep suggesting
that those who are bothered by him should just killfile him. If
they were serious with that suggestion they at least could have
told Nikos they were only going to reply to one specific identity.


> That is different in my eyes from somebody who does identify Nikos as
> a troll and then goes on to egg him on anyway, whether it be courteous
> or belligerent.


In my eyes that is a difference that only counts at the start of
an exchange. Helping others allthough a fine goal by itself is not
something that can be used to justify any means. If you learn that
the person you are helping is showing assholery behaviour and how
you are helping, sure looks like encouraging that assholery behaviour.
When you decide to mostly ignore that, you are showing no concern
for the other contributers on the list and are acting in a way
that is detrimental to the community.

If you want the python list to be a hospitable place, you have
to be attentive for signals from other contributors that the
level of hospitability is decreasing for them. If you ignore
them or brush them off you then risk loosing them as cooperators
to that goal. So if later you find the level of hospitability
is decreasing for you, you are more likely to get ignored or
brushed off too.


-- 

Antoon Pardon