[pypy-dev] MinimalPython newbie questions

[Bengt Richter]

At 02:10 2003-01-22 +0100, Christian Tismer wrote:
>Bengt Richter wrote:
>...
>
>>I'm wondering how you will get to the starting point of the
>>"high-level description" you mention by any automated means
>>of translating the interpreter from C sources.
>
>[in-depth explainment why this cannot work]

Ouch. I think you have an exciting project. I hope you don't
take my attempt to get it clear in my head as negativism.
I was trying to factor out different aspects as I saw them, to
ask if I was looking at things the way you are re goals
of a new high level PPython source for humans vs python-in-
any-form-just-so-Pysco-can-get-its-teeth-into-it-and-do-its-magic.

>...
>
>>Hm, I have a general feeling that in the game of programs-as-data
>>you are probably doomed to reinvent some lisp ;-)
>
>Fine. What's your problem with that?
No problem, it just flashed into my mind. And I remembered the
little eval thing, which I though was kind of interesting.

>It does not need Lisp to use related techniques.
Sure, I didn't mean to imply that.
>Do you have a proposal?

Not at this time, sorry. But I am trying to think about the
problem, FWIW. It is interesting ;-)

>[snipped the rest]
>
>I agree that we are not trying to do something trivial,
>and that it is impossible to do an automatic translation
>including a suitable abstraction without interaction.
>It is more like extracting structure, and applying
>generalizations by hand, in a re-doable manner.
Does that mean you intend to build a CPython->PPython translator
(with whatever manually prepared hints and directives in files
augmenting the C inputs) for continued use? I.e., anticipating
treating CPython as master source code for the forseeable future,
as opposed to a one-time translation that is validated by testing
against test suites, and then maintained at the source/PEP level,
rather than re-translating new C?

>I just re-read your message about "Loving it to death".
Do you think I fulfilled my own fears? I hope not ;-/

>In that sense, was this an offer to do some 10+ C to
>Python translations by hand? That would be great!

I would like to help. I'm not sure my best help would be
to jump into coding, but it might give me a better appreciation
for what you are dealing with, so if you want to mention some
particular C to translate, and some example of patterns you'd
like used, I'd be happy to look at it.

Does it mean that you now have a project plan with particular
coding tasks that can be delegated? BTW, I can promise not to
speak until spoken to about whatever, if that's best at any
given time ;-)

>going-back-to-prototyping -- chris
When will we get a peek? Or did I miss an URL somewhere ;-)

Best wishes,
Bengt