[Pydotorg-redesign] Design, Logo's, Images

[Steve Holden]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: pydotorg-redesign-bounces at python.org
> [mailto:pydotorg-redesign-bounces at python.org]On Behalf Of
> Walter Dörwald
> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 1:26 PM
> To: Matt Goodall
> Cc: 'Pydotorg-Redesign at Python.Org'
> Subject: Re: [Pydotorg-redesign] Design, Logo's, Images
>
>
> Matt Goodall wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 2003-08-13 at 17:08, Walter Dörwald wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> >> On the start page
> >>(i.e. level 0 of the navigation) level 1 and 2 of the navigation are
> >>unfolded. What happens when you click on a level 1 link?
> Will all other
> >>level 1 links be folded, i.e. would the navigation look like this:
> >>
> >> > About
> >>      For Beginners
> >>      For Developers
> >>      For Business
> >>   Download
> >>   Documentation
> >>   Community
> >>   ...
> >
> > First, something solid to think about ...
> >
> > If possible, I think we should aim for _no_ folding at all
> although that
> > depends on just how many links are needed in the menu.
>
> What does that mean?
>
It means that the navigation features of the site should remain constant
rather than attempting to emulate a tree-structured navigation feature.

> Will the level 2 pages appear as level 1 links on a level 1 page, i.e.
> would the navigation bar on the "About page" simply look like this:
>
>     For Beginners
>     For Developers
>     For Business
>
> with the look of the first level links (i.e. brown background, block
> border)?
>
No. The links you mention should be inside a *second-level* navigation
feature, appearing in a position that’s common to all second-level
pages.

> IMHO this is more confusing that at least keeping the level 1 page
> that is in the path in the navigation bar. The siblings of the level 1
> page could be hidden though:
>
>  > About
>       For Beginners
>       For Developers
>       For Business
>
> > ... and now something decidedly wobbly, which is probably
> best ignored
> > ;) ...
>
> OK! ;)
>
>  > [...]
> > I think if the menu gets 2 levels deep then it's too deep. Also, the
> > more levels there are, the shorter the link text can be -
> the menu needs
> > to be as thin as possible to leave room for the actual content.
>
> We already have three levels: The homepage is level 0, "About" is
> level 1 and "About">"For Beginners" is level 2.
>
> Indenting a level 3 page by 10 pixels shouldn't make the navigation
> too wide.
>
> >>What happens on lower levels (if we ever have them)?
> >
> > I don't even want to think about that ;-).
>
> So "Home">"Documentation">"Library Reference" )or
> "Home">"Developers">"PEPs") is only one page and doesn't have any
> subpages?
>
If you really want to show all intermediate levels of navigation then
the most obvious mechanism for that is to put breadcrumb-style links to
each level somewhere in the page content.

I don’t think it’s a good idea for navigation features to morph
themselves as the user interacts with the web - too many users miss the
analogy with a tree and find themselves confused as bits of the
navigation bar move around - or even seem to disappear when they scroll
off the bottom as a result of activating a heavily-populated section.

So, for definiteness, please excuse the ASCII art, I’d like to see
something more like this:


+-----------------------------------------------------------------------
------+
	|     Site-wide, always-available, every-page links
|

+-----------+-----------------------------------------------------------
------+
	| First     |       Second-level nav links
|
	| Level
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
	| Nav       |       Third-level nav links, when required
|
	| Links
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
	|		|       Hey, let’s have some content!                             |
	|           |
|
	|           |
|
	|           |
|
	|           |
|
	|           |
|
	|           |
|
	|           |
|

+-----------+-----------------------------------------------------------
------+

I agree it’s not high-tech, but it’s easy to understand, the navigation
bars are consistent throughout any given section of the site, and it’s
easy to work with.

I fear we’re in danger of ignoring the KISS principle here, which would
not be good given that we want to attract people who might be coming to
programming for the first time and thus not be familiar with the kinds
of structures we take for granted in the programming world.

regards
--
Steve Holden                                 http://www.holdenweb.com/
Python Web Programming                http://pydish.holdenweb.com/pwp/