[Microbit-Python] The BBC reveal the device to the media

[Nicholas H.Tollervey]

Michael,

On 12/07/15 12:57, Michael wrote:
> Quick comments which I hope help - this isn't an either this OR that
> situation.
> 

Quite... see my reply just now to Howard. I'm relieved it isn't an
either this or that, but it's nice to have it clearly stated (rather
than a tacet assumption). To be clear, I got the feeling you were all
terribly impressed with Damien's work but that you were still evaluating
things - nothing had been explicitly stated about support for
MicroPython moving forward.

> It's an unexpected awesome curveball.
> 

Tell me about it... :-D

> I don't think there's a single part of what you've written,  that I
> disagree with. As a programmer, from a free software perspective, from
> the perspective of tools, from a 'what happens if you lose access to the
> compiler' (host down, end of life x years down line etc), and so on,
> heck even from the perspective of a cub/scout leader running a session
> with 24 kids in a Hall without Internet connectivity,  and or a teacher
> wanting to keep lesson on track.
> 

:-)

> All of those concerns fed into the system for the schools trial,  and
> into the recommendation for open source, which fell on a fertile
> audience (their default assumption) so to speak.  We'd chatted about
> creating .debs of the system so that schools could run their local
> servers easily (which is why I'd looked into PPA's), the possibility of
> a local offline editor with the compilation tool chain, etc. (That used
> IOToy's PySide based editor).  Indeed,  once the stack is released as
> open source,  which should include the prototype version,  I'll do just
> that. When it comes to logins, I was rather undiplomatic and detailed
> and clear about issues, and consequences, etc. That fed into the spec,
> etc :-)
> 
> That all hopefully explains just how wonderfully surprised we were by
> micropython. It wipes out whole classes of issues in one swoop, as you
> say,  providing real fun opportunities,  and capabilities, in a much
> better way.
> 

Good to hear. Is this all going into your PyCon UK talk..? Pretty much
everyone involved from the Python community side of things will be there
(as well as teachers).

> Ie, in short I get it,  and I'm also *far* from the only person agreeing
> with you.
> 
> But,  I'm a 41 year old bloke - not 11, and this goes right to the heart

1973 was obviously a vintage year (me too)

<snip a bunch of stuff that we can discuss over a pint sometime/> ;-)

> Put bluntly,  I think we all know on this list that any solution that
> doesn't have micropython as part of it would suck, and we're just
> looking to see where the gaps lie, where they're easy to fix,  possible
> to fix or hard. And that there's a niggle of a worry that if one of the
> gaps is viewed by kids is important that python *could* be viewed in a
> way none of us want.
> 

OK... we're all on the same page here.

> Finally,  3 questions,  with the answers I'd suspect in brackets:
> 
> * Does that make sense? (I hope yes)

Yes.

> * Are we overly worried? (Possibly)

Possibly, but it's always good to make sure.

> * Would the python community want to take that risk?  (Almost certainly,
> it's less of a risk than Python 3)
> 

You mean by not (currently) having BLE..? Personally, I wonder how hard
the mythical 32k version of the device would be (at some later date).
Given the Python community's passion about education, not having Python
on the micro:bit would be a heinous oversight on our part. That's why I
made the proposal on the PSF's behalf. ;-)

I also agree with you about the bounty option. However, for this to
happen the Python community would need to be unencumbered to work in the
way they're used to. MicroPython is already MIT licensed but we'd need
test devices and freedom to discuss, explore and experiment. Schematics,
other core data and (I'm guessing) the DAL code should all be available
otherwise we're stymied.

Also, this list should be opened up to be public.

> On that basis,  there are IMO two main things to figure out:
> 
> * How to make the micropython dev  environment the best it can be in the
> time we have.
> 

Agreed. several of us already have various ideas about that already.
Tomorrow or Tuesday I'll start a new thread about it on this list.

> * How to make the UX experience,  including code sharing the best it can
> be. Perhaps based around using the blocks editor as a template, since
> that had to store and share text already. However, this is also very
> similar to the problem that Code Kingdoms are facing for their work, so
> there's also alternatives there.
> 

Quite... these are interesting problems.

> As I say does that make any sense?
>

Absolutely. As always, many thanks for your always considered and
thoughtful contributions!

:-)

Best wishes,

Nicholas.


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