[IronPython] IronPython for ASP.Net

Mon May 25 16:35:30 CEST 2009

So is there any new timeline for this right now or is it in the "beats me"
territory?
Dody G.

On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 4:05 PM, Dody Gunawinata <empirebuilder at gmail.com>wrote:

> Bummer. Thanks for the info.
>
>
> On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 3:43 PM, Curt Hagenlocher <curt at hagenlocher.org>wrote:
>
>> Judging by the last internal email I saw about this on Friday, I'd guess
>> not... :(
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 5:25 AM, Dody Gunawinata <empirebuilder at gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Is there any chance for this to come up today? I know it's weekend and
>>> the summer.
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 10:21 PM, Jimmy Schementi <
>>> Jimmy.Schementi at microsoft.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Woops, I meant 2.6.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* users-bounces at lists.ironpython.com [mailto:
>>>> users-bounces at lists.ironpython.com] *On Behalf Of *Dody Gunawinata
>>>> *Sent:* Friday, May 22, 2009 11:39 AM
>>>> *To:* Discussion of IronPython
>>>>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [IronPython] IronPython for ASP.Net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> IronPython 2 Beta 1 ?
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 1:11 AM, Jimmy Schementi <
>>>> Jimmy.Schementi at microsoft.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I completely agree with your points; we have a finite amount of
>>>> resources and choose to focus on language compatibility over .NET web-stack
>>>> integration. Though IronPython has done that web-work in the past, we’re
>>>> purely focused on compat. I’ve forwarded on the previous mail to the
>>>> ASP.NET team; I want to see IronPython and IronRuby be used on the web
>>>> more too. =)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That being said, *I’ve just finished packaging up
>>>> Microsoft.Web.Scripting.dll that works against the released IronPython 2
>>>> Beta 1, and I’ll be releasing it either today to tomorrow* … so end of
>>>> conversation? =P Na, I this is a good conversation to have, but in short
>>>> you’ll be able to use IronPython 2 Beta 1 in ASP.NET very soon again.
>>>> Hopefully the next beta of IronPython 2.6 will include the DLL and source,
>>>> otherwise I’ll make this package again.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ~js
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Dody Gunawinata [mailto:empirebuilder at gmail.com]
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2009 4:23 AM
>>>> *To:* Jimmy Schementi
>>>> *Cc:* Discussion of IronPython
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [IronPython] IronPython for ASP.Net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The refresh was unusable because it contained the version of IronPyton
>>>> that is not compatible with .Net 3.5 framework (I think it was built on IP
>>>> 2.0 Beta 3/4);
>>>>
>>>> I'm griping about this issue in this list because I don't think this is
>>>> a completely separate issue from the DLR programming languages. Maybe it is
>>>> not a direct responsibility of this team, but the impact is direct for the
>>>> following reasons:
>>>>
>>>>    - Nobody adopts a language as is. The libraries matters. The
>>>>    existing community of Python and Ruby are not going to move to Windows
>>>>    platform just because IronPython and IronRuby are being worked on and
>>>>    released. They have had a multi platform runtimes with de facto standards
>>>>    that are capable of doing wonderful things for more than a decade.
>>>>    - There is much bigger market for language adoption for existing
>>>>    .Net/Windows based developers (and new developers) and these guys/gals are
>>>>    using mostly standard Microsoft stacks. And they are using .Net via mainly
>>>>    C# and VB.Net. If the DLR languages do not have proper support at least for
>>>>    the major technology stacks (I would consider ASP.Net/Silverlight as major
>>>>    stacks), many people will not consider using the DLR based language for
>>>>    their production systems.
>>>>    - I know ASP.Net MVC is open source and it's free to be extended
>>>>    etc, but ASP.Net WebForm have be en deployed massively and that's not going
>>>>    to change anytime soon. And theres is already a support, albeit poor and not
>>>>    up to date, for ASP.Net webform stacks in IronPython. Not having it fully
>>>>    updated is a waste of opportunity.
>>>>    - .Net 4.0 and C# vNext contains dynamic language support but
>>>>    really, what is good for if the DLR languages can only be used in much more
>>>>    limited scenarios because some major technology stacks are not supported.
>>>>    - You raised correctly that Django and  RoR are being used to
>>>>    validate the  languages. But I would argue that the existing technology
>>>>    stack support validates the DLR platform, not just the languages.
>>>>
>>>> So yes, I'm not happy with the level of investment being put on
>>>> supporting the technology stacks because I think it is pretty short sighted.
>>>> No, I don't blame this team for this but at least if I complain on this
>>>> list, it might have a chance being forwarded internally because this is one
>>>> of the best community mailing list for Microsoft technologies.
>>>>
>>>> Dody Gunawinata
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 5:17 AM, Jimmy Schementi <
>>>> Jimmy.Schementi at microsoft.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> First off, it hasn’t been three years: a refresh was released 8 months
>>>> ago, and sent to this very list:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://lists.ironpython.com/pipermail/users-ironpython.com/2008-September/008497.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Secondly, rather than just producing these one off releases (where are
>>>> very taxing on the team), we’re doing it right and getting the source code
>>>> released and Ms-Pl’d, so we can include it on Codeplex sources, builds, and
>>>> nightly builds. Then it can be included in each IronPython release, just
>>>> like Silverlight binaries are.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lastly, IronRuby and IronPython are programming languages, made by
>>>> programming language teams. We’re very interested in running as many
>>>> existing Ruby and Python programs as possible. It just so happens that
>>>> Django and Rails are popular, complex pieces of software that help find
>>>> bugs, and give the languages street cred for running them. If those web
>>>> frameworks didn’t run, theirs probably something wrong with our language.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Running in ASP.NET and MVC require a significant amount of work *
>>>> outside* of the language, so it really isn’t a language team’s purpose
>>>> to build that. Sure they provide good demos as conferences or blog posts,
>>>> but they’ll only be toys. We’ve invested in those technologies before, which
>>>> is why the ASP.NET and Silverlight integration exists, but no one is
>>>> working on enabling web-technologies full-time (though I have spurts of
>>>> diving back into Silverlight from time to time). If you don’t like the level
>>>> of investment in dynamic languages for Microsoft web technologies, that’s
>>>> something that you should communicate to the ASP.NET team; Phil Haack (
>>>> http://www.haacked.com) or Dmitry Robsman (
>>>> http://blogs.msdn.com/dmitryr) are good people to address.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ~Jimmy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* users-bounces at lists.ironpython.com [mailto:
>>>> users-bounces at lists.ironpython.com] *On Behalf Of *Dody Gunawinata
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 20, 2009 1:22 PM
>>>> *To:* Discussion of IronPython
>>>> *Subject:* [IronPython] IronPython for ASP.Net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is there any update for IronPython for ASP.Net?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It has been three years since IronPython support for ASP.Net introduced
>>>> with the release of the whitepaper (
>>>> http://www.asp.net/DynamicLanguages/whitepaper/) and the first binary.
>>>> Since then I think we've had Katrina, a Beijing Olympic, a new President, a
>>>> financial collapse and two James Bond movies - yet until now there is still
>>>> no up to date support for the technology. I know that the legal team, etc
>>>> are working on the source release, but I think it is pretty galling that
>>>> Microsoft's own web framework stack is barely supported by its own dynamic
>>>> language technology, both on the 'classic' ASP.Net and MVC stack. I mean
>>>> there is more energy put into having IronPython and IronRuby to run Django
>>>> and RubyOnRails web framework instead of ASP.Net stack. This just doesn't
>>>> make sense to me.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> nomadlife.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>> nomadlife.org
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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