[IronPython] IronPython for ASP.Net

Sun May 24 15:05:24 CEST 2009

Bummer. Thanks for the info.

On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 3:43 PM, Curt Hagenlocher <curt at hagenlocher.org>wrote:

> Judging by the last internal email I saw about this on Friday, I'd guess
> not... :(
>
>
> On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 5:25 AM, Dody Gunawinata <empirebuilder at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Is there any chance for this to come up today? I know it's weekend and the
>> summer.
>>
>> On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 10:21 PM, Jimmy Schementi <
>> Jimmy.Schementi at microsoft.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Woops, I meant 2.6.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* users-bounces at lists.ironpython.com [mailto:
>>> users-bounces at lists.ironpython.com] *On Behalf Of *Dody Gunawinata
>>> *Sent:* Friday, May 22, 2009 11:39 AM
>>> *To:* Discussion of IronPython
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [IronPython] IronPython for ASP.Net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> IronPython 2 Beta 1 ?
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 1:11 AM, Jimmy Schementi <
>>> Jimmy.Schementi at microsoft.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I completely agree with your points; we have a finite amount of resources
>>> and choose to focus on language compatibility over .NET web-stack
>>> integration. Though IronPython has done that web-work in the past, we’re
>>> purely focused on compat. I’ve forwarded on the previous mail to the
>>> ASP.NET team; I want to see IronPython and IronRuby be used on the web
>>> more too. =)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That being said, *I’ve just finished packaging up
>>> Microsoft.Web.Scripting.dll that works against the released IronPython 2
>>> Beta 1, and I’ll be releasing it either today to tomorrow* … so end of
>>> conversation? =P Na, I this is a good conversation to have, but in short
>>> you’ll be able to use IronPython 2 Beta 1 in ASP.NET very soon again.
>>> Hopefully the next beta of IronPython 2.6 will include the DLL and source,
>>> otherwise I’ll make this package again.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ~js
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Dody Gunawinata [mailto:empirebuilder at gmail.com]
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2009 4:23 AM
>>> *To:* Jimmy Schementi
>>> *Cc:* Discussion of IronPython
>>> *Subject:* Re: [IronPython] IronPython for ASP.Net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The refresh was unusable because it contained the version of IronPyton
>>> that is not compatible with .Net 3.5 framework (I think it was built on IP
>>> 2.0 Beta 3/4);
>>>
>>> I'm griping about this issue in this list because I don't think this is a
>>> completely separate issue from the DLR programming languages. Maybe it is
>>> not a direct responsibility of this team, but the impact is direct for the
>>> following reasons:
>>>
>>>    - Nobody adopts a language as is. The libraries matters. The existing
>>>    community of Python and Ruby are not going to move to Windows platform just
>>>    because IronPython and IronRuby are being worked on and released. They have
>>>    had a multi platform runtimes with de facto standards that are capable of
>>>    doing wonderful things for more than a decade.
>>>    - There is much bigger market for language adoption for existing
>>>    .Net/Windows based developers (and new developers) and these guys/gals are
>>>    using mostly standard Microsoft stacks. And they are using .Net via mainly
>>>    C# and VB.Net. If the DLR languages do not have proper support at least for
>>>    the major technology stacks (I would consider ASP.Net/Silverlight as major
>>>    stacks), many people will not consider using the DLR based language for
>>>    their production systems.
>>>    - I know ASP.Net MVC is open source and it's free to be extended etc,
>>>    but ASP.Net WebForm have be en deployed massively and that's not going to
>>>    change anytime soon. And theres is already a support, albeit poor and not up
>>>    to date, for ASP.Net webform stacks in IronPython. Not having it fully
>>>    updated is a waste of opportunity.
>>>    - .Net 4.0 and C# vNext contains dynamic language support but really,
>>>    what is good for if the DLR languages can only be used in much more limited
>>>    scenarios because some major technology stacks are not supported.
>>>    - You raised correctly that Django and  RoR are being used to
>>>    validate the  languages. But I would argue that the existing technology
>>>    stack support validates the DLR platform, not just the languages.
>>>
>>> So yes, I'm not happy with the level of investment being put on
>>> supporting the technology stacks because I think it is pretty short sighted.
>>> No, I don't blame this team for this but at least if I complain on this
>>> list, it might have a chance being forwarded internally because this is one
>>> of the best community mailing list for Microsoft technologies.
>>>
>>> Dody Gunawinata
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 5:17 AM, Jimmy Schementi <
>>> Jimmy.Schementi at microsoft.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> First off, it hasn’t been three years: a refresh was released 8 months
>>> ago, and sent to this very list:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://lists.ironpython.com/pipermail/users-ironpython.com/2008-September/008497.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Secondly, rather than just producing these one off releases (where are
>>> very taxing on the team), we’re doing it right and getting the source code
>>> released and Ms-Pl’d, so we can include it on Codeplex sources, builds, and
>>> nightly builds. Then it can be included in each IronPython release, just
>>> like Silverlight binaries are.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Lastly, IronRuby and IronPython are programming languages, made by
>>> programming language teams. We’re very interested in running as many
>>> existing Ruby and Python programs as possible. It just so happens that
>>> Django and Rails are popular, complex pieces of software that help find
>>> bugs, and give the languages street cred for running them. If those web
>>> frameworks didn’t run, theirs probably something wrong with our language.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Running in ASP.NET and MVC require a significant amount of work *outside
>>> * of the language, so it really isn’t a language team’s purpose to build
>>> that. Sure they provide good demos as conferences or blog posts, but they’ll
>>> only be toys. We’ve invested in those technologies before, which is why the
>>> ASP.NET and Silverlight integration exists, but no one is working on
>>> enabling web-technologies full-time (though I have spurts of diving back
>>> into Silverlight from time to time). If you don’t like the level of
>>> investment in dynamic languages for Microsoft web technologies, that’s
>>> something that you should communicate to the ASP.NET team; Phil Haack (
>>> http://www.haacked.com) or Dmitry Robsman (http://blogs.msdn.com/dmitryr)
>>> are good people to address.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ~Jimmy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* users-bounces at lists.ironpython.com [mailto:
>>> users-bounces at lists.ironpython.com] *On Behalf Of *Dody Gunawinata
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 20, 2009 1:22 PM
>>> *To:* Discussion of IronPython
>>> *Subject:* [IronPython] IronPython for ASP.Net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Is there any update for IronPython for ASP.Net?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It has been three years since IronPython support for ASP.Net introduced
>>> with the release of the whitepaper (
>>> http://www.asp.net/DynamicLanguages/whitepaper/) and the first binary.
>>> Since then I think we've had Katrina, a Beijing Olympic, a new President, a
>>> financial collapse and two James Bond movies - yet until now there is still
>>> no up to date support for the technology. I know that the legal team, etc
>>> are working on the source release, but I think it is pretty galling that
>>> Microsoft's own web framework stack is barely supported by its own dynamic
>>> language technology, both on the 'classic' ASP.Net and MVC stack. I mean
>>> there is more energy put into having IronPython and IronRuby to run Django
>>> and RubyOnRails web framework instead of ASP.Net stack. This just doesn't
>>> make sense to me.
>>>
>>> --
>>> nomadlife.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> nomadlife.org
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Users mailing list
>>> Users at lists.ironpython.com
>>> http://lists.ironpython.com/listinfo.cgi/users-ironpython.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> nomadlife.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> nomadlife.org
>>
>>
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>>
>

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