[Chicago] Question about Machine Language.

[JS Irick]

Beautiful, Phil.

Thanks for sharing.

On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 5:15 PM, Robare, Phillip (TEKSystems) <
proba at allstate.com> wrote:

> My favorite story about programming in the ‘50s (and why we don’t do it
> that way today) is “The Story of Mel” (
> http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/story-of-mel.html).  Unfortunately there
> is so much knowledge that has become arcane since the story was first
> posted in the ‘80s that you should check out “The Story of Mel explained” (
> http://jamesseibel.com/blog/?p=109).
>
> This will give you a feeling about what ‘programming to the metal’ is and
> how far above it we code today.
>
> Phil Robare
> TEK Systems / Allstate QR&A
> 847-667-0431
> D2D 82-O
>
> From: Chicago [mailto:chicago-bounces+proba=allstate.com at python.org] On
> Behalf Of Carl Karsten
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2015 3:09 PM
> To: The Chicago Python Users Group
> Subject: Re: [Chicago] Question about Machine Language.
>
> two more directions this can go:
>
> Why don't we call just code in machine language?
>
> 1. It's really hard.
>
> 2. There are many CPUs, each have there own instruction sets. (think
> languages.a)  So code written using 484 instructions won't run on a 386,
> and code written for a 386 won't take advantage of 486 features.   And
> running on an ARM chip is right out.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 2:10 PM, Naomi Ceder <naomi.ceder at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 7 December 2015 at 13:57, Lewit, Douglas <d-lewit at neiu.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi everyone,
> >>
> >> I was reading an article on the web about how all programming languages
> are "Turing complete".  I believe that basically means that all programming
> languages are able to communicate with the computer's CPU using the binary
> codes of machine language.
> >
> >
> > Uh, that's not actually what "Turing Complete" means...  It doesn't
>  have anything to do with binary or machine language... from Wikipedia (
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_completeness):
> >
> > "To show that something is Turing complete, it is enough to show that it
> can be used to simulate some Turing complete system. For example, an
> imperative language is Turing complete if it has conditional branching
> (e.g., "if" and "goto" statements, or a "branch if zero" instruction. See
> OISC) and the ability to change an arbitrary amount ofmemory locations
> (e.g., the ability to maintain an arbitrary number of variables). Since
> this is almost always the case, most (if not all) imperative languages are
> Turing complete if the limitations of finite memory are ignored."
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Naomi
> >
> >> Okay then.... so why don't we get rid of C, C++, Java, Python, Ruby,
> Perl, Ocaml, Haskell, C#, F#, etc, etc and why don't we call just code in
> machine language?  Bear in mind that I'm asking this question from the
> point of view of the Devil's Advocate because I know almost nothing about
> machine language.  But it's an interesting question.  It's related to the
> question, "Why don't we have one universal natural language?  Let's get rid
> of English, French, Spanish, German, Russian, Chinese, Japanese, Arabic,
> Hebrew, etc, etc, and replace them all with one universal language that
> everyone understands".
> >>
> >> I'm interested in reading your thoughts and ideas.  Thanks.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >>
> >> Douglas.
> >>
> >> P.S.  Sorry to hear about the Django Study Group.  I thought Mark
> Graves was very friendly and did a great job of demonstrating various web
> applications using Python.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Chicago mailing list
> >> Chicago at python.org
> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Naomi Ceder
> > https://plus.google.com/u/0/111396744045017339164/about
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Chicago mailing list
> > Chicago at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Carl K
> _______________________________________________
> Chicago mailing list
> Chicago at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago
>



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