[Web-SIG] Removal of Cookie in Python 3.0 OK?

[Jim Fulton]

On Feb 4, 2008, at 3:50 PM, Bill Janssen wrote:

>> I think most web frameworks use setuptools at this point.  I'd rather
>> get this as a distribution, rather than from the standard library.   
>> In
>> fact, I'd prefer to see all web-development libraries distributed
>> separate from the language in Python 3.
>
> Jim, you want to have most things separate, if I've read your recent
> posts to the dev and 3k lists correctly.  Lean and mean Python
> distribution.

Yup.

>  I'd agree with you if we had the infrastructure for it,
> something which would function at least as well as apt-get does,
> pulling dependencies and doing platform and version checks
> automatically.

This is working now with setuptools. Overall, I think it is working  
pretty well.

>  But I don't think Python is anywhere near that level
> of infrastructure, and it's a bit of a stretch just to maintain the
> infrastructure that currently exists.

The biggest problem I have with the current infrastructure is that it  
is unnecessarily dynamic and unreliable.  Many of us are maintaining  
static mirrors that are working quite well.  This is a pretty well  
understood problem at this point.

>  Given that, I think that moving
> functionality out of the standard library would damage Python, not
> improve it.

OK, we disagree.  I also, unfortunately, don't have a lot of time to  
contribute to Python 3, so I imagine that my opinion won't cary much  
weight, but I feel obliged, as a good citizen, to express it.

>  Given that, I'd rather see what's in the stdlib be
> updated to best-of-breed, instead of
> the-first-thing-we-thought-of-in-1995, as all too much of it is.


Breeds are constantly evolving.  I don't think it's realistic for the  
standard library to try to keep up.  I also don't think it's a very  
good idea for language maintainers to make judgements about what's  
best in various application areas.

I have the impression that there's this fairly large effort for people  
to redo lots of the standard library for Python 3, without necessarily  
knowing a lot about the libraries' histories, and motivation. I;m  
skeptical that this is going to lead to a high-quality product.

I'd much rather see language developers put some focus on making a low- 
level feature like a packaging system work as well as possible.

Jim

--
Jim Fulton
Zope Corporation