[Web-SIG] JavaScript libraries

[Robert Brewer]

Ian Bicking wrote:
> Donovan Preston wrote:
> > I think there is no substitute for experience. Personally I have  
> > found that using abstractions which try to shield you from browser  
> > unpleasantness merely obscure the real source of the error or  
> > incompatibility which inevitably happens anyway.
> 
> I don't think you can Make Anything Possible given the right library, 
> and I think overambitious efforts (especially ones that cover up 
> Javascript entirely) are unlike to succede.  But the library can give 
> direction, and help keep wary developers from venturing into 
> difficult territory.  Libraries embody a lot of knowledge beyond
> their functionality.  If you emphasize innerHTML-based 
> functionality because it works, then you've indirectly saved
> the library users time and headaches.  In this way a more
> limited library that emphasizes the easiest constructs
> could be very useful.
> 
> This is why I personally am looking for that small library 
> that does all the convenient or particularly useful things
> I'm interested in, and does them really well, but doesn't
> get too fancy.

Jumping off of that, the thing that's highest on my list of "getting too
fancy" right now is Creating Yet Another RPC Mechanism. But perhaps I've
been drinking too much RESTful Kool-Aid lately, cf.
http://naeblis.cx/rtomayko/2005/04/22/on-http-abuse. I'm much more
interested in giving Javascript developers access to Python-backed web
services, than in getting a Python library which generates Javascript.

The problem I see with shoving Javascript-generation into your (Python)
backend is that the server and the client cannot then be developed
independently. Ajax is a stellar recent example of this, because many
current instances of Ajax are simply retoolings of POST pages--the
consumer has found a new request technique and _does not need_ that to
be integrated into the server in order to improve itself.

I guess I'm looking for an approach with looser coupling between browser
and server than what I've seen either in form-generation frameworks, or
those which push Javascript statements to the browser at whatever pace.
I mention "statements" as opposed to "just data", whether in XML or JSON
or some other form. So I suppose I'm already in the doghouse with
respect to -jj, who started this thread talking about LivePage. ;)

/thinking *really* hard now about never hard-refreshing a web page
again,


Robert Brewer
MIS
Amor Ministries
fumanchu at amor.org