[Web-SIG] Re: Just lost another one to Rails

[Martijn Faassen]

Greg Wilson wrote:
>  > > Greg Wilson wrote:
> 
>> > Well, here we all are, two weeks later...
>  
>  > Ian Bicking:
>  > [Subway on Paste]
>  > [Quixote on Paste]
>  > [Adrian Holovaty's stuff on Paste]
> 
> There's an old Chinese proverb (well, I was told it's Chinese): "If a
> hundred sages each tell you something different, the odds are that 
> they're all wrong."  I think WSGIKit/Paste is a great idea, but as long
> as a dozen people keep saying, "Use mine!  No, use mine!", the average 
> "need to get it done for Tuesday" web developer isn't going to touch any 
> of them.

I think the best way to evolve away from this is to try to reuse code. I 
think what Paste is doing is an example of trying to do this.

I'd rather see this as "two weeks later", you come back, and Zope 3 is 
using Twisted and WSGI, and Paste uses WSGI to integrate with Subway, 
Quixote, and so on. So who knows what the next two weeks will bring? :)

>  > Martijn Faassen:
>  > One can hardly expect people to drop the frameworks they've invested a
>  > lot in and all converge upon another one. You can't even expect Python
>  > programmers to actually stop creating new frameworks.
> 
> Expect? No.  Ask?  Yes.  Believe that if they don't, they'll be
> wondering in five years why Python has become the next Tcl, instead of
> the next Perl?  Absolutely.

Such drama and doom ahead... I'm not sure whether making Python "the 
next Perl" is something good to aim for anyway...

Trends come and pass, and eventually we'll see people complain about 
Rails and rave about something else. I've seen quite similar blurbs with 
Zope 2 back in '00 or so, for instance. Meanwhile Zope has grown up a 
lot, especially in Europe, where dozens of companies make their money 
building on top of the Zope platform. This may yet happen with Ruby on 
Rails, but let's not ignore the real business happening with other systems.

That's not to say we shouldn't do anything, but going "we must DO 
something NOW! No, what you did is NOT IT, we must DO SOMETHING!" is 
starting to feel less constructive at this stage.

What are you *asking*? What are you suggesting is done?

Regards,

Martijn