[Web-SIG] (off topic) Re: Just lost another one to Rails

[Shannon -jj Behrens]

That's interesting to hear you mention HTML::Mason.  I really liked
using it at one company that insisted I use Perl.  In fact, I liked
the callNext feature so much, I included it as a core part of
Aquarium:

<http://aquarium.sourceforge.net/api/public/aquarium.util.InternalLibrary.InternalLibrary-class.html#inverseExtend>

I even wrote a Dr. Dobb's article about it, which ought to come out
before too long.

I also liked the templating engine, if you could call it that,
although Aquarium uses Cheetah instead.  I'm really open to the idea
of integrating other templating engines, especially one with Mason
syntax.  Afterall, templating engines are a matter of taste.

Best Regards,
-jj

On Apr 9, 2005 11:30 AM, michael bayer <mike_mp at zzzcomputing.com> wrote:
> my own project, Myghty, is modeled after Perl's HTML::Mason, which in
> turn is a lot like PHP with regards to "just plug it in and start
> writing pages".  it does foster a more compentized design than PHP and
> also integrates nicely into whatever  MVC framework the developer
> chooses.  Myghty also includes a rudimentary MVC framework paradigm
> built into it,  but its completely optional; you can use whatever
> architecture you want and just use the python server pages aspect of
> the engine.
> 
> the whole idea with Myghty is that theres a lot of options for how it
> can be used, it wont let you down when the site gets big, and also its
> as "out of the box" as it gets; just untar the dist, and it includes a
> demo server that runs right out of the distribution directory so you
> can see it run, browse the docs and source code, and start playing with
> your own pages without even installing it.   Basing it off of
> HTML::Mason was because i think the Mason development model is
> extremely productive, having used it for several years, after lots of
> experience with both JSP/servlet and ASP models which I feel are less
> productive.  a lot of other people agree too; its the most popular web
> framework for Perl, OReilly book and everything.
> 
> unfortunately I did Myghty a disservice by not showing up to hawk it at
> Pycon.  as its deriviate of something from the perl world, i would
> never expect it to become the "de-facto" python tool; but then also, i
> think the python web framework world should remain open to various
> architectures coexisting.
> 
> 
> On Apr 9, 2005, at 11:20 AM, Peter Hunt wrote:
> 
> >  Ruby on Rails, ColdFusion, ASP.NET, and to a lesser degree PHP and
> > ASP share two important traits that no Python web framework currently
> > embraces.
> >
> >
> >
> >  First, when one writes an application for these frameworks, one
> > spends the vast majority of time writing code for their application,
> > writing the logic that their application specifically requires.
> > Contrast this with J2EE or Zope. In writing a Zope 3 application, for
> > example, one must design objects that fit the Zope interface
> > requirements, write a couple of XML configuration files to document
> > the object, and figure out the entire API all at once. Contrast this
> > to PHP, where one spends time simply writing what their application
> > needs to do, and does not need to write a single ambiguous XML
> > configuration file. This extends to deployment. In a J2EE application,
> > you need to deploy a WAR, while with PHP, you just need to drop a few
> > .php files on the server and it works.
> >
> >
> >
> >  Second, these frameworks have "batteries included". Rails is a
> > "full-stack" framework, which, according to its API documentation,
> > "includes everything needed to create database-backed web-applications
> > according to the Model-View-Control pattern of separation." It handles
> > everything from form validation to database integration to sending
> > email. No Python framework currently embodies such functionality with
> > such good integration.
> >
> >
> >
> >  I really want to be able to say that we should all come together to
> > improve Zope, the "king" of Python web frameworks . . . but I can't
> > say that. Zope 2 was a mess, and Zope 3 is so overengineered that it's
> > painful to write code. The ideal framework should allow the programmer
> > to be organized, while still allowing a monkey to write Hello, World.
> >
> >  My two cents . . . what's yours?
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