[Pythonmac-SIG] Recommended Tcl/Tk with Py-2.6.x? (was: Test failure...)

[Christopher Barker]

Tom Loredo wrote:
> Chris wrote:
>> wxPython is 32 bit, you need to use it with 32 bit Python.
> 
> * At the very top of the wxpython page:
> 
> (8-Oct-2008) A set of wxPython binaries for Python 2.6 on the Mac and Windows
> (32-bit and 64-bit) are now available.

I guess that should read:

"A set of wxPython binaries for Python 2.6 on the Mac (32 bit) and 
Windows (32-bit and 64-bit) are now available."

English can lack precision.

> * On the wxpython download page:
> 
> http://www.wxpython.org/download.php#binaries
> 
> the Mac section says not a word about 32- vs 64-bit.

That's 'cause there is only one build, but a bit more text could help.

> * Google:
> 
> wxpython "Snow Leopard"
> 
> Does that look very clear or promising?

I agree that that looks painful, but here's my take on it:

Nothing about snow leopard breaks wxPython -- what breaks wxPython is 
the Python that Apple ships with Snow Leopard. The answer to that is 
simple: DO NOT USE Apple's Python.

I have never used it is has always been broken one way or another -- the 
Python/MacPython community has no say or control over what Apples does, 
and they have consistently broken all kinds of stuff in their build. On 
Leopard, they got it very, very close, but they still have never updated 
a version, and don't seem to be careful about compatibility, etc.

The truth is, while it sounds great that Apple provides python, they 
have never treated like a real, supported system component for third 
party use.

If you want wxPython and any number of other assorted third party 
packages, use the python.org build, it's as simple as that.

> * Apple's Python on SL is 64-bit by default; unless a user
> understands the 32-bit compatibility and has also figured out
> how to use Apple's proprietary mechanism to switch Python to
> 32-bit, they will not have an easy time with Apple's Python
> and wxpython.

exactly --so don't use it!

  > The actual situation may be straightforward, but potential users
> should not have to stumble upon a mailing list posting to figure
> out what will work.

doc/wiki patches accepted. The binary download section of the wxPython 
page could use some updating.

> 32-bit Python will be fine for me for the time being, so I'm
> glad to learn what will work.  But some of my time series work
> is pressing closer to the 32-bit boundary.

Yes, it would be nice to get 64 bit support -- it's a tough transition 
-- but partly Apple is to blame, they decided not to build a 64 bit Carbon.

> Also, as long as
> those with some expertise with what goes on "under the covers"
> (and Chris has 10^3 times my expertise) don't push on 64-bit to
> see what breaks when and where, 64-bit will never happen.

well, I'm too dependent on wx, and not nearly enough of an expert to 
work on wxOSX (Cocoa-based) -- so all I can do is wait for now. I think 
it's looking pretty promising, though.

> It's a SL thread, but still I'm glad to learn what combinations
> work.  Can you let us know exactly what is working for you?
> Leopard?  Apple's Python or Python.org or a new build?  Which
> Python version?  Which numpy/scipy/mpl versions?  (This should
> probably be another thread!

As far as I know, everything that works on older systems works on Snow 
Leopard, so all you need to do is install the standard binaries:

Python from python.org
wxPython from wxPython.org
MPL from the MPL project
numpy from the numpy project

Do you see a theme, here?

It gets tough if you want to use Apple's Python or build stuff yourself 
on Snow Leopard -- it's always been a pain to build for older systems on 
a Mac, though it sounds like it's even worse than usual with Snow Leopard.

> On a related topic, Kevin noted:
> 
>> many people can't get their 64-bit 
>> Python GUI apps to build with py2app.

yup, there are still issues. The trick is that there just isn't that 
large a community doing this stuff. There are a lot of folks using 
python on the Mac, but apparently they are doing mostly web development 
and other non-gui unix-y stuff, where there are simply fewer issues.

The funny thing for me is that my IT folks are making me upgrade to 
Leopard (from tiger), 'cause Apple has stopped providing security 
patches, but they won't let go right to Snow Leopard, 'cause they don't 
have a "standard configuration" defined for that yet -- what a pain!

Having a total of 4 architectures for the Mac does NOT make this easy!

-Chris



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Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
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