Is that forwards first or backwards first? (Re: unintuitive for-loop behavior)

[Steven D'Aprano]

On Tuesday 04 October 2016 14:51, Michael Torrie wrote:

> On 10/03/2016 08:21 PM, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 05:48 am, Michael Torrie wrote:
>> 
>>> There is that old, but false, saying that the only intuitive interface
>>> is the nipple.  Turns out everything, even that, is learned
>> 
>> Citation required.
> 
> Sure, just ask a nursing woman.
[...]
> Sucking seems to be instinctive but the actual interface is learned
> (albeit very quickly) by experience.

You say tomahto, I say tomarto. It sounds like we're using different language 
to describe the same thing.

Babies do have an instinct to suck if you stick a nipple (or a finger) in their 
mouth, or even if you merely touch them on the lips or cheek:

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=5392

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primitive_reflexes#Rooting_reflex

The rooting instinct, together with the sucking instinct, is present in all 
healthy babies. I would expect that only the most severe development 
abnormalities would prevent instincts as important for survival as these two.

Between the rooting and sucking instincts, I consider "the only intuitive 
interface is the nipple" is correct. However, that doesn't necessarily mean 
that babies will suckle well: there are all sorts of reasons why babies don't 
breast-feed well, e.g.:

http://www.cyh.com/HealthTopics/HealthTopicDetails.aspx?p=114&np=302&id=1960


> Babies don't just see a nipple and know what it's for.

Of course the instinct isn't *visual* -- babies may not open their eyes for 
many minutes after birth (one study found that about 3% of babies hadn't opened 
their eyes within 20 minutes, the maximum time allotted) which may be long 
after their first suckle.

Nevertheless, there are senses other than sight.



-- 
Steven
git gets easier once you get the basic idea that branches are homeomorphic 
endofunctors mapping submanifolds of a Hilbert space.