Tkinter: The good, the bad, and the ugly!

[Adam Skutt]

On Jan 18, 8:59 pm, Corey Richardson <kb1... at aim.com> wrote:
>
> > I completely agree! And we should expect it to be even better!
>
> What out there is there that meets those requirements?

Nothing, and I somewhat doubt there ever will be.  Tk is somewhat of
an anomaly at this point.  Most of the trend in GUI toolkits is to
become more HTML/JS/CSS like in nature, which isn't something I
personally agree with.  I certainly don't think   it makes life any
easier for the programmer, especially starting out.  It might make
certain types of applications (e.g., CRUD) easier, but that's not a
laudable goal in the least.

> Mobile and web certainly have their place, but it Python the place for
> it? Sure, Python can be used as the back-end of web sites, but not up
> front like Java or Flash (aside from Jython). Especially mobile. Python
> was not intended for a mobile platform not should it be made to fit that
> niche. Python has its place, but your cell phone is not it.

I don't think that's true per se, but I don't think it's relevant.  A
single GUI toolkit for traditional computers, for web, and mobile is a
difficult task, one that no one has accomplished.  MS has gotten
closest, and I'd hesitate to call Silverlight a success. Plus,
Silverlight is plugin-based rich applications (ala Flash), not HTML/
CSS/Javascript which is what most people mean/want for the web.

Adding HTML/CSS/Javascript to the mix takes the problem from bad to
awful, in my opinion.  I'm sure the various Pyjamas users might take
issue with that, but what works best inside a web browser (with its
various enforced limitations) isn't what works best inside a client-
side application (be it web delivered or not).

> As a web interface are you thinking something like Java's Swing or
> something like Django?

You pretty clearly need both.  There are times when web pages are what
I want, there are times when they are inadequate and I need more
functionality.  You certainly don't want either Swing or Django,
though.

>
> Given the above, what do you guys (python-list, not just rantingrick)
> think fills the spot the best?
>

Nothing, but I'm not even convinced the spot needs to be filled.
Certainly no one's made an actual case for why, much less how.
Regardless, if it's really what you want, you'd have to write it
yourself.  Personally, while Silverlight has some interesting ideas,
I'd recommend not using it as a base, especially if Python is your
target language.

> Would these items inclusion in the stdlib entail unnecessary cruft added
> on to the size of the stdlib, are they completely cross-platform (as far
> as Python itself is)?
>

Depends on exactly what you do, but you'd likely end up no bigger
than .NET or Java.  I'll leave it to others to decide whether that's a
good or bad thing.

> Let's try not to get off track like this thing has been since it was
> started.

That was and rantingrick's goal from the get go and still is his goal.
Otherwise, he wouldn't have changed his position three times now and
be overdue for a fourth.  Otherwise, he would have answered my / your
question about why bother putting a minimized version of wxWidgets in
the standard library by now as opposed to the whole damn thing.  He
dodges technical questions because he lacks even the most elementary
understanding.  He'll do the same to you and only offer absurd
platitudes and insults in return, as opposed to actual working
technical solutions.  Hell, he can't even offer up a consistent
problem to solve, and he's honestly over do for changing it
altogether..

Adam