pygame and python 2.5

[mensanator at aol.com]

On Feb 13, 2:24 am, Steve Holden <s... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> mensana... at aol.com wrote:
> > On Feb 11, 4:24 am, Steve Holden <s... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> >> mensana... at aol.com wrote:
> >>> On Feb 11, 1:35?am, Steve Holden <s... at holdenweb.com> wrote:
> [...]
>
> >>> By the way, on the sci.math newsgroup I promote
> >>> Python every chance I get. One fellow thanked me
> >>> profusely for recommending Python & GMPY and asked
> >>> for some help with a program he was having problems
> >>> with. We worked it out fine but his problem made me
> >>> suspect there may be more bugs in GMPY. What's my
> >>> motivation for tracking them down?
> >> The satisfaction of a job well done? What's my motivation for acting as
> >> a director of the Python Software Foundation when I get accusations of
> >> irresponsibility?
>
> > I apologize. But I hope you see how this appears from
> > the outside, that the PSF doesn't give a rat's ass about
> > Windows users with AOL addresses. Sure, that's wrong,
> > but calling people who bring up these points whiny leeches
> > doesn't do anything to dispell that notion.
>
> The AOL address is nothing to do with it.

Did you read the reply from Steven D'Arpano? He seems to
think it has something to do with it.

> Accusations of whiny leeching
> tend to be made at people whose attitudes aren't constructive

That's why I brought up the gmpy incident, to show that I don't
have such an attitude. I even said I would pay for a compiler
if that's what it took, which is more than what some open source
developers are willing to do (and I don't blame them).

> and who
> express their complaints in ways that seem to imply an expectation of
> some kind of right to dictate to open source developers.

I never meant to dictate what open source developers should do.
But do they care about the implications of what they do?
Remember, I got onto this thread replying to say that when
an open source developer doesn't think past his own computer,
then that's not the altruistic behaviour that others claim is
the hallmark of open source. Sure, it rubs people the wrong
way when I not so politely ask them to please look at the beam
in their own eye before complaining about the mote in their
neighbor's eye.

>
> >> Anyway, thanks for taking the time to help maintain gmpy.
>
> > Thanks, I try to help as much as I can. I'm a little
> > sensitive about gmpy because without it, I would have
> > to abandon Python and I don't want to abandon Python.
>
> >> This thread is starting to make me think that there's a case to be made
> >> for somehow providing supported build facilities for third-party
> >> extension modules.
>
> > And the untouchables would greatly appreciate it.
>
> We're all Python users.

That's what I was hoping to hear.

> There are no untouchables.

I'll ignore Steven D'Arpano's prattle.

> But in the open
> source world you tend to have to take ownership of the problems that are
> important to you.

That's part of the trouble. I could never write gmpy from scratch,
don't know enough. But I'm very good at understanding existing things.
For 20 years I was a System Test Engineer and still consider myself
a great debugger of both hardware and software.

>
> Since you say you couldn't get the attention of gmpy's developers you
> might need to think about trying to join the team ...

There's a team?

>
> >> This wouldn't be a simple project, but since there's a Windows buildbot
> >> for Python there's no reason why the same couldn't be done for
> >> extensions. I'll raise this with the PSF and see what the response is:
> >> then your carping will at least have had some positive effect ;-)
>
> >> Stick with it, and let's try to make things better.
>
> > Ok.
>
> On a point of information, as it happens there's a Board meeting today
> and I have tabled the topic for discussion. Unfortunately I can't
> guarantee to attend the meeting (I am moving from the UK to the USA this
> week) but I will try to do so, and will attempt to report back to c.l.py
> within a week.

Again, thanks for listening and trying to help. Even if nothing comes
of
it, at least we tried. I figure that sooner or later something has to
be
done and I'd rather see it done sooner. And no, I don't think I'm
entitled to that.

>
> regards
>   Steve
>
> PS: Couldn't send this yesterday, or attend the meeting, because BT
> Internet termined my DSL service early, mau God rot their profits and
> drive them into bankruptcy. I'll report back once I found out how the
> discussions went.
> --
> Steve Holden       +44 150 684 7255  +1 800 494 3119
> Holden Web LLC/Ltd          http://www.holdenweb.com
> Skype: holdenweb    http://del.icio.us/steve.holden
> Blog of Note:          http://holdenweb.blogspot.com
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