merits of Lisp vs Python

[Ken Tilton]

Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 02:12:29 -0500, Bill Atkins wrote:
> 
> 
>>Steven D'Aprano <steve at REMOVE.THIS.cybersource.com.au> writes:
>>
>>
>>>Rightly or wrongly, people fear that Lisp's macros push Lisp closer to
>>>that hypothetical anything-goes language than is healthy. Maybe that's a
>>
>>Wrongly.  
> 
> 
> That's your opinion, and as an experienced Lisp coder, it is an opinion
> worth treating seriously. Nevertheless, a mere denial doesn't constitute
> evidence, let alone proof.

Well, it does unless you think we are lying, or creating obfuscated code 
and do not know it. This would be consistent with the theory that we 
positively love parentheses only because we are mutants. To be honest, I 
think it would be way cool if it turned out I was this mutant life form, 
the only kind that can understand Lisp. And this would be consistent 
with my theory that John McCarthy must be an alien. How else can he 
wander over to his desk one day, misread Church, and create a language 
that, as you say, is growing in popularity and whose essence can be 
found in every popular language except C++, which only makes my point.

Have you read On Lisp by Paul Graham? It is on-line. Just the preface 
will do, I think, maybe also Chapter One where he raves on macros. Do 
you think he is mistaken? Confused? Lying? Mutant?

This exchange has not been a complete disaster, but it sure could have 
covered a lot more ground if you had not had your hands over your ears.

Now I see you want Lispniks to explain its unpopularity. I like that, we 
have to figure out what is wrong with you. :) Apparently that would be 
fear of the unknown, xenophobia, and prejudice. Meanwhile, given that 
Python and Ruby have copied so much from Lisp, and that languages seem 
to be converging on Lisp, now we have to have an equally daft exchange 
over the possibility that Lisp is the most popular language going. Even 
Java has Groovy.

Lisp has all the cool qualities you like in your pets, plus native 
compilation in most implementations, plus maturity and a standard, plus 
a better OO, plus macros, plus a dozen more small wins. Including 
automatic indentation. :)

It is just a matter of critical mass. At some very low threshold Lisp 
becomes "OK". I get the feeling that has already begun, but it is not 
quite there yet. Certainly it gets mentioned now when language names get 
bandied about, if only to be dismissed. That is a step up for us. :)

ken

-- 
Algebra: http://www.tilton-technology.com/LispNycAlgebra1.htm

"Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five
years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally
won out over it." -- Elwood P. Dowd

"I'll say I'm losing my grip, and it feels terrific."
    -- Smiling husband to scowling wife, New Yorker cartoon