Autocoding project proposal.

[Timothy Rue]

On 25-Jan-02 04:44:23 Quinn Dunkan <quinn at retch.ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>On Fri, 25 Jan 2002 02:30:24 GMT, Timothy Rue <threeseas at earthlink.net>
>wrote:
>>>Are you proposing something that is higher level than Python?
>>
>>
>>No. you cannot solve a general language problem by creating another
>>language.
>>
>>Even mathmatics has it's limitations on it's ability to express. Godels
>>Theorm and Turning halting problem.

>A sentence like this puts me in an Alex Chiu state of mind...

Who is that person and what are they about?

>>Think of it this way: the programming language is like the song the radio
>>station plays. The tool I am talking about that will enable autocoding, is
>>like the broadcast carrier wave. The carrier wave doesn't care about what
>>song the DJ plays or if the news is being played, etc..
>>
>>
>>The DJ can read machine language, assembly language, BASIC, Fortran, C,
>>Python, Rebol, etc... But the carrier wave is still going to be the same
>>and it's going to carry whatever over it.
>>
>>Nine commands and their options along with related files that help keep
>>track of things as they are being moved across a dynamic carrier wave.
>>
>>Understand the difference and how the answer to your question is no?

>I don't.  It seems like what you're saying is a recreation of a unix shell
>and hierarchical filesystem.  A shell is a language.

>AI  /bin/sh
>PK  ~/.*rc, environment
>OI  read foo
>IP  <
>OP  >
>SF  ;
>IQ  awk, grep
>ID  ls, cat
>KE  more awk, grep, in a structural regexpy way

No, not really. I tried using common tools, but for some strange reason I
just couldn't get them to work together quite the way needed.

But it's a nice effort, your interpretation.


>Coding advice for http://www.mindspring.com/~timrue/python/IQ.351.py: go
>through the python tutorial or a few other introductory things.  The code is
>really kind of impressive, in that it doesn't have a single "def" statement,
>but it's more or less the wrong kind of impressive.


Geee, no points for it working and the fact that I don't have 28 years of
education and programming experience...

Point being, yes, things need to be made much easier for the adverage
user, who spends 40 plus hours a week doing something other than working
in the field of programming. Everybody should be a programmer, that way we
all can eat bits, be clothed and shelters by bits and take bits for
medicine when we are sick and use bit to travel to work ....

It might actually be easier that way instead of the majority having
to train programmers about what they want to do with computers, while
knowing full well the programmers are going to leave as soon as they do
one job.... And if it's interesting enough the programmer might slap
ownership rights on it, if they can, so to charge the client/teacher...

On the other hand, I suspect autocoding would be used by programmers to
kick out some stuff they only maybe dream of, if they dream at all.

>No one is likely to understand the pages of philosophical mumbo-jumbo and
>handwaving metaphors, especially if you're a Misunderstood Genius who only
>speaks Martian.  A better approach would be to pose a few realistic concrete
>problems, how you'd solve them with existing tools, and how you'd solve them
>with the acronym raft.

:) you're not ready for such training, yet.

You have made it very clear that any such problem and solution I give
using the VIC commands will be responded to with a barrage of other ways
to solve each problems using a variety of different tools along with
specific remarks about the proper, in someones opinion, as to how this
and that code should be done (regardless of its working status).

I, on the other hand, believe that such expertise as you seem to claim you
have, is because you have done it enough over and over that it's possible
to automate these do's, don'ts, standards, and best ways so that us dumb
ass end users can actually get something done for ourselves, instead of
being insulted by the elite class that you seem to be a part of, in any
effort we apply to do something.

I also believe such efforts to automate such a coding process qualifies as
genuine software engineering, as opposed to psuedo software engineering.

] SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN - Sept. 1994
] Article - "Software's Chronic Crisis"

] Mary M. Shaw of Carnegie Mellon University, observes a parallel between
] chemical engineering evolution and software engineering evolution.
] However, this evolution has not made the connection between science and
] commercialization required to establish a consistent experimental
] foundation for professional software engineering.


>If you don't want to do that, or you do but no one understands, or they do
>but don't care, you'll just have to ignore us short-sighted misunderstanding
>types and write the whole thing yourself (if one of nine commands is only 500
>def-less lines, it shouldn't lake long).  If you have specific programming
>questions along the way I'm sure kind people will help you out.  Then with
>your new power you'll accomplish all sorts of cool stuff in no time, and
>We'll All Be Sorry.  At that point you can either gloat a bit, and then
>relent, or go ahead and send the robot army after us.

You really should get of the pedistal, before you fall and hurt yourself.

>The other option is to continue pursuing the Alex Chiu line and crank out the
>manifestos.  If you enjoy that kind of thing, you might acquire a certain
>kind of fame, but you'd have to work hard because it's a competitive field.

Is that what you are doing?

I don't want to compete with you.

I simple want to get a tool built that can be useful to all of us, allow
me and others to do alot more.

I'm sorry you seem to have a problem with that.

---
*3 S.E.A.S - Virtual Interaction Configuration (VIC) - VISION OF VISIONS!*
   *~ ~ ~      Advancing How we Perceive and Use the Tool of Computers!*
Timothy Rue      What's *DONE* in all we do?  *AI PK OI IP OP SF IQ ID KE*
Email @ mailto:timrue at mindspring.com      >INPUT->(Processing)->OUTPUT>v
Web @ http://www.mindspring.com/~timrue/  ^<--------<----9----<--------<