Defending the Python lanuage...

[Cliff Wells]

On Fri, 08 Feb 2002 14:11:26 +0100
Laura Creighton wrote:

> > If if.  No doubt things such as personality are going to be a huge
factor. 
> > I guess that sums up my assertion: the type of personality attracted to
> > programming is not the type to endure watching someone else code.  My
> > fingers would twitch themselves numb.  To have pair-programming work
you
> > would need two programmers who: 
> > 
> > 1.  have similar skill levels
> 
> This is incorrect.  

How dare you.   ;)

> It works great with people with radically different
> skill levels.  Of course, they start to converge, so they do not end
> up with different skill levels.  thats the point.  For example, people
> who pair program with me and are not aware of design patterns and
signature 
> based polymorphism will get that fixed in a hurry.  But what happens
> when Alex Martelli and I are pair programming is I learn so much stuff
> I never even heard about before.

No doubt.  This is in fact how I have trained people in the past - they sit
and watch me program with some toolkit and we discuss what I'm doing (I had
great success teaching someone with no programming experience whatsoever
how to integrate Python, wxPython and MySQL - in less than 3 months he was
writing on his own [and damn arrogant too, I might add]).  However, I think
a key point in his progress a a programmer was when he finally sat at his
own computer and worked independently of me.  I'm reminded of a Chinese
proverb I read in a calculus book:

I hear and I forget
I see and I remember
I do and I understand

Now you know Laura, that your posts are so rare and insightful that I am
loathe to disagree with you, -but- ;) my point is that while working
together is extremely beneficial for sharing ideas and information, I don't
see sharing the same console with another programmer for 90% of the time to
be as beneficial to productivity.  Sitting side-by-side at separate
consoles, yes, but not at the same console (except when there are
interesting discoveries/techniques to be shared or design questions to be
pondered). 

However, this discussion does give me the idea that pair-programming could
be very beneficial if programmers were rotated on some schedule, so that
one day they watched someone else and on another someone else watched them,
especially given a group of several programmers that could be rotated
through.  This way, programmers would get enough time doing development on
their own but still have a chance to share ideas with other programmers in
their group.  Too bad I'm not in a position to give it a try :P

> It is such a joy.

I'm glad to hear it =)

> > 2.  like and respect each other
> > 3.  have compatible programming philosophies
> 
> (you are spot on with those, however.)
> 
> Cliff, again you are up against 'American management is impossible.'
> Seriously consider visiting Sweden, for a vacation.  I think you would 
> like it here.

You'd better be careful what you ask for - you're starting to tempt me -
you could end up with some guy with a strange accent and stranger ideas
hanging around ;)  I expect I could learn quite a bit from you.


-Cliff

-- 
Cliff Wells, Software Engineer
Logiplex Corporation (www.logiplex.net)
(503) 978-6726 x308  (800) 735-0555 x308

"Then with your new power you'll accomplish all sorts of cool stuff 
 in no time, and We'll All Be Sorry.  At that point you can either 
 gloat a bit, and then relent, or go ahead and send the robot army 
 after us." - Quinn Dunkan