Does Python help with the no-Unix handicap?

[Alex Martelli]

Neil Hodgson <neilh at scintilla.org> wrote in message
news:Cl%05.2665$cQ.22917 at news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> > In many Perl vs. "other scripting language" discussions, I have often
> > seen Perlers state that those who dislike Perl's syntax and structure
> > are often non-Unix types, and thus are not used to common Unix
> > concepts. And, since Perl was born as a Unix admin tool, us "Windows
> > types" will likely be lost.
>
>    I think that was part of my problem with Perl. While I can use Unix,
its
> at a low level of competence - I count myself lucky to survive a session
> with vi without pulling the power cord to stop the torture. Coming from an

I still use and program Unix at a very high level of competence, and vi
is by far my favourite editor (gvim, of course, these days; under Windows
too, but, basically, everywhere and anywhere).

> RSX/11M+, Mac, OS/2, Windows background I found the syntax choices in
Perl,
> which probably appear obvious to native Unixers, bizarre and difficult to

I find (and always have found) Perl's syntax bizarre and difficult, despite
working for many years with Perl.  And I'm as close to a "native Unixer" as
you can get around here, though I also have mainframes and VMS backgrounds.
Unix's various shells' syntax is *NOT* Unix's strong point!-)

> reason with. Python does not try to use much 'clever syntax' at all making
> it much easier for me.

Exactly.  Here too.


>    This leads to not liking the 'augmented assignment' addition. The only
> examples of augmented assignment that are used often enough to have their
> own special syntax are addition and subtraction. Even for these, I'd
prefer
> to see syntax that looks like function calls similar to Modula 2.

Here, I deeply disagree.  Augmented-assignment is the only substantial
contribution of the C syntax: a truly excellent, outstanding idea.  The
point is that "multiply X by 7" is *more fundamental* in some sense than
"compute the expression X times 7, and set a new value of X to that", as
also reflected by the much more concise English (and other natural lang)
syntax expressing it; augmented-assignment gives concise syntax to match
the fundamental semantics.  Languages with no interest in mimicking C per
se, such as Icon, have long been adopting that syntactic idea.  Python
would also benefit from it.


Alex