[Python-Dev] re: syntax - "Aren't tuples redundant?"

[David Ascher]

From: Gordon McMillan <gmcm@hypernet.com>

> The fact that you don't like "zen" arguments doesn't mean you
> have to make them. Don't defend it at all. Just point out that
> most Python programmers consider tuples very valuable and
> move on.

Doesn't really work with argumentative, opinionated and poorly informed
students, which are majority in the computer field =).

> In general, it's very hard to "defend" Python on theoretical
> grounds.

The point is not theoretical grounds, but, at least in my case, backing up
the claim that Python has an elegant, spare design.  Tuples show up as
challenging that claim, as do some of the other warts on AMK's pages.  I
expect some of those to go away naturally (e.g.

    apply(Base.__init__, (self,)+args, kw)

will mutate naturally to:

    Base.__init__(self, *args, **kw)

but the tuples will stay.  I'm just looking for a better pedagogical trick,
not arguing against them on theoretical grounds.

--david