making Mailman CAN-SPAM compliant (was Re: [Mailman-Developers] Hashing member passwords in config.pck)

[Barry Warsaw]

On Wed, 2005-02-16 at 08:54, Tobias Eigen wrote:

> It's really weird to have to log in 
> multiple times to access multiple list settings, especially if it's the 
> same password being used everywhere. It's likewise weird to then be 
> able to make "global" changes from one list's preferences page. 

There's no question that this is a major usability issue, but it's a
result of an ancient architectural decision that is difficult to fix and
not backwards compatible.

> Has 
> anybody considered having a usability expert look at the Mailman 
> interfaces and redesign them so they make more sense from a user's 
> point of view? How easy is it to customize these pages? Are they 
> perchance templatable?

Not easily.  One of the goals of MM3 is to make the u/i fully templated.

I certainly make no claims to web u/i artistry, and there have been a
few attempts over the years to improve things, but no one with the
expertise has stepped forward and owned the task of doing this.  I'd
welcome it though.

> And we're only talking about the frontend (listinfo interface) here 
> now, not even the backend (admin interface) for list owners. The 
> backend is so incredibly complex and overwhelming that it has become a 
> serious stumbling block for us in offering a service that people will 
> actually use. 

I agree.  Somehow we need to make the admin interface much simpler,
without sacrificing the important features that (some) people will
need.  It's a challenge.  I actually think that list styles will help a
lot here.

> For Kabissa these interfaces have to be as easy to use as 
> Yahoo Groups or Google (has anyone tried Google's groups? They are 
> quite nifty actually). We have people coming online from all over 
> Africa who pay dearly for every precious minute they spend online.

I hear you.
-Barry

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