making Mailman CAN-SPAM compliant (was Re: [Mailman-Developers] Hashing member passwords in config.pck)

[Tobias Eigen]

Hi Brad -

Sorry for sitting on this for so long - would like to respond to it 
though.. see below.

>>  And this, plus the CAN prefix to the patch name, reminds me: correct 
>> me
>>  if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that Mailman as it exists does
>>  not comply with the new (unfortunately named) CAN SPAM act. According
>>  to this act, a recipient of an email from a given site has to be able
>>  to opt out from receiving ANY MAIL from that site. Right now all 
>> mailman
>>  lists are treated completely separately, and nobody (not even the
>>  subscriber) can easily find out which lists subscribers are 
>> subscribed to.
>
> 	Actually, you can easily see which lists you're subscribed to. Go to 
> the listinfo page for the mailing list in question, and log in using 
> your e-mail address and password.  There's a button that says "List my 
> other subscriptions".  Unfortunately, you can't unsubscribe from all 
> of them with a single command, you will have to unsubscribe from each 
> of them individually.  But you can globally change all your passwords 
> for all the lists you're subscribed to, change your e-mail address, 
> and if you scroll down to the bottom of the list, you can change a 
> number of other options, most of which can be applied globally.
>
> 	However, this is only a on a per-address basis.  If you have multiple 
> different addresses subscribed to different lists, you will have to 
> handle them each individually.

I know all this - and I know you know it, and I know all Mailman geeks 
like us get it. The problem is with regular, every day people who are 
expecting (and really can be expected to expect) Yahoogroups type 
interfaces. I'm sorry to say it, but Mailman's web interfaces are 
extremely daunting and confusing. It's really weird to have to log in 
multiple times to access multiple list settings, especially if it's the 
same password being used everywhere. It's likewise weird to then be 
able to make "global" changes from one list's preferences page. Has 
anybody considered having a usability expert look at the Mailman 
interfaces and redesign them so they make more sense from a user's 
point of view? How easy is it to customize these pages? Are they 
perchance templatable?

And we're only talking about the frontend (listinfo interface) here 
now, not even the backend (admin interface) for list owners. The 
backend is so incredibly complex and overwhelming that it has become a 
serious stumbling block for us in offering a service that people will 
actually use. For Kabissa these interfaces have to be as easy to use as 
Yahoo Groups or Google (has anyone tried Google's groups? They are 
quite nifty actually). We have people coming online from all over 
Africa who pay dearly for every precious minute they spend online.

>>  What I envision having in my Mailman/Mambo system is a single user
>>  database with one password per username for all services. Users can
>>  then go to a simple preferences page on Mambo and do basic things
>>  like change their email address or password, tick a box to opt in/out
>>  of various mailings, and in particular opt to receive no mail at all.
>
> 	You can pretty much do all of that today.  Go to the listinfo page 
> and log in with your e-mail address and password.

Perhaps, but you can't do it "easily".

Cheers,

Tobias

--
Tobias Eigen
Executive Director

Kabissa - Space for Change in Africa
http://www.kabissa.org

* Kabissa's vision is for a socially, economically, politically, and 
environmentally vibrant Africa, supported by a strong network of 
effective civil society organizations. *