[Edu-sig] Python for non-programmers

[Kirby Urner]

>I am teaching my 35-year-old son about programming using Python.  He is a
>musician and has learned to do impressive things with the DVD + CD-RW + SB
>Live! on the Windows system that I set up for him.  He does his own web

<<SNIP>>

Question:  when you talk about the tutorial, I presume you mean
the one that's included with Python.  I would highly recommend 
investing in 'Learning Python' in addition.  That's really a very
good book, and it _doesn't_ get into technical stuff too fast or
too quickly.

>He knows to make __init__.py files but not why.  I wanted him to have a

Yeah, really, why start here?  You don't need __init__.py files
to learn Python.

<<SNIP>>

>I set him up with 4DOS just because it is a little easier to know where you
>are and explore inside a command shell.  (I figure learning about console
>mode would be an easier way to have useful work in python before dealing
>with the GUI and the fledgling IDEs available for Python).

This seems completely and totally ass-backwards to me.  Why on
earth would you boot an X-Term window (aka DOS or 4DOS) and learn
Python in that clunky, unfriendly environment.  Especially when
your student is already Windows user, accustomed to that interface,
and does DVD + CD-RW.  Must seem like a real big step back into
the dark ages.

I'd say an IDE that color codes program key words as you type 
them is a _minimum requirement_ for any student getting into
programming, in ANY language.  IDLE 0.5 is not all that 
"fledgling" either.  Compared to a DOS prompt, it's lightyears 
ahead and beyond, in terms of ease of use. 

Your attitude seems to be:  "before we use Word to learn word-
processing, let me show you how we type on this manual typewriter 
from the late 1940s (remember, you have to hit the keys _real hard_ 
-- and the ribbon might jam from time to time)."

>But mostly we learned things that one could also do using the MS-DOS
>command.com shell.  He doesn't know what either of those are, but he knows

Ugh!  Who cares???

<<SNIP>>

>He was tired and I was overwhelmed by how much we geeks operate on assumed
>understanding and an incredible amount of unexplainable lore.  I saw that

Yeah, really.

>his Windows knowledge is spotty -- there are things that he has missed so
>far, such as the right-click menus and ability to make new documents and
>folders.  He didn't know about the wheel on the wheel mouse to help with
>scrolling.  Just the same, he has picked up ways to get around in Windows

No big deal.  I threw away my wheel mouse when it proved too glitchy
(yeah, a cheapo).  Back to the track ball for now.

>This has really brought me up short about what it takes to introduce
>something like Python to a non-programmer (or even a programmer with a whole
>different paradigm of computer use, operation, and programming).  I have to
>shed all of my intuitions, developed over 40 years around these fascinating
>mechanisms, and learn to see through his eyes.  That is daunting!

Shed the intuition that you need to go to a DOS window, is my 
advice.

>I am looking at what would make his experience more successful and
>effective.

IDLE.  GUI.  No DOS (or 4DOS, or CP/M either).

Kirby