From umjenki5 at cc.umanitoba.ca Thu Dec 8 17:48:33 2005 From: umjenki5 at cc.umanitoba.ca (Mark Jenkins) Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 16:48:33 -0600 Subject: [Python Wpg] location, format, group title Message-ID: <4398B841.9070309@cc.umanitoba.ca> > I'd like to have a first informal meeting on December 13th during the > day, perhaps 12:00 noon or 1:00 p.m., perhaps downtown. Good time for me, no exams that day. I like downtownish. Upper level of Bullman centre at U of W perhaps? But, I would not suggest that particular location for the real meetings. Characteristics of an ideal location: * Central, preferably downtown over other central locations because it simplifies bus ussage * Projector access * Desktop computers available so people without laptops can hack and mingle Internet access is a bonus, but I wouldn't sacrifice any of the above for it. I have a full copy of the documentation on my laptop hard drive. Any thoughts on a group title? I think Winnipeg Python Users Group would be somewhat boring. PyPeg is cooler. Or, if you like both, append the former to the later as a subtitle: "PyPeg: The Winnipeg Python Users Group". My thoughts on a potential format: 1. Language feature of the month. A short presentation on an aspect of the language that can be found in the tutorial. (http://docs.python.org/tut/tut.html) 2. Included battery of the month. A short presentation on something described in the library reference. (http://docs.python.org/lib/lib.html) 3. Short break for mingling and hacking 4. A longer feature presentation or discussion. Examples: Presentation on a 3rd party library or a Python application, discussion of pythonic vs. unpythonic programming style, tricks, techniques, solutions to classic programming problems in Python, debate on proposed language changes, more in depth looks at the something that falls under the domain of (1) or (2). 5. More mingling and hacking until everyone goes home. Mark From mpfaiffer at callapple.org Thu Dec 8 17:21:39 2005 From: mpfaiffer at callapple.org (Mike Pfaiffer) Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 16:21:39 -0600 Subject: [Python Wpg] Meeting time and location Message-ID: <200512081621.39338.mpfaiffer@callapple.org> The 13'th is the same date as the MUUG meeting. Rather than a lunch time meeting (which is OK too) why not have the organisational meeting just before the MUUG meeting. If this sounds good, I usually have a meal at Subway (the corner of Portage Place) around 6:30. If there is a lot to talk about then perhaps 6:15 might be a better time. At about five or ten to 7:00 we could all collectively head over to the MUUG meeting. A lunch time UG is an interesting idea. I doubt many employers would want to go for it though. Then there is the time needed to go from work to the meeting and back. If the members can get an afternoon off (preferably with pay) it would be a great idea. No conflicts unless a member is going to school. For a venue I'd suggest some place cheap with an internet connection. Python can connect to the net can't it? If the group can get some corporate sponsors then it opens up the number of possible locations. Playing on the education angle, perhaps one of the three universities in Winnipeg or RRCC might be willing to donate a room. Some church basements or high school classrooms might be a good idea if the timing is good. During daylight hours most places in town are still fine. If the meetings are in the evening then perhaps some place in the suburbs might be a little less stressful. For potential topics I might suggest the first few could be devoted to the creation of a quick reference "card" which can be handed out at subsequent meetings. The MWCS has an interesting approach to their meetings which might work well here. They have a period of time at the beginning for newbies and have a main presentation later. If someone doesn't want to sit in on the first part they can show up after the break. I can probably drag in a couple of people but they'd know less about Python than I do (the only thing I did was a "hello world" program after a presentation from the MUUG). A good first step for publicity would be an entry in the leisure guide. Unlike a traditional computer or advocasy club getting some space in a mall for the weekend wouldn't do too much. Contacting the user groups, univerisities, community colleges, and school boards would be as much as could be expected. The average Joe isn't going to walk in off the street and want to become a Python user. It is pretty esoteric. Since it was hinted there is Python for the Mac I may be able to persuade some friends at Call-A.P.P.L.E. to include a section for Python in the magazine (someone other than myself has to write the articles). Since they are looking to archive as many programs as they can, this might be a good place to store tutorials and demos created by the group. Later Mike -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Call-A.P.P.L.E. and the Digital Civilization http://www.callapple.org | | http://members.shaw.ca/pfaiffer = Mike Pfaiffer (B.A., B.Sc.) | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ----- BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK ----- Version: 3.12 GCS/G/IT/PA/SS d s+:- a? C++ UL L++ W++ N++ o+ K- w(---) O+@ M++@ V PS+ PE !PGP t+ 5+ X R tv b+ DI+++ D++ G e++* h! r-- !y-- UF++ ------ END GEEK CODE BLOCK ------ From phil at rephil.org Thu Dec 8 19:38:22 2005 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 18:38:22 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Python Wpg] Meeting time and location In-Reply-To: <200512081621.39338.mpfaiffer@callapple.org> References: <200512081621.39338.mpfaiffer@callapple.org> Message-ID: <60332.64.201.190.96.1134088702.squirrel@webmail.non-prophet.org> Mike Pfaiffer said: > The 13'th is the same date as the MUUG meeting. > If there is a lot to talk about then > perhaps 6:15 might be a better time. At about five or ten to 7:00 we could > all collectively head over to the MUUG meeting. Not everyone is a MUUG member. In fact, not everyone lives in town! I like Stuart's original suggestion. Any place should be good on that day, for me, I think. I would also encourage that structure and organization be kept to a minimum -- time, place, and one topic per meeting. It's better to run long on a simple program than be burdened with organizing a big meeting. No constraints beyond that -- personally, I find Python a lot more interesting than the "Club Organization Club." ;) Of course, I'm probably trying to recreate the environment at the TCPZUG (Twin Cities Python/Zope Users Group) which was loosely based on the TCLUG minimal format. The location can be flexible, but it may be easier to keep time and date the same every month (or two-weeks, or year, or whatever). Best, Phil M -- Dept. of Mathematics, 342 Machray Hall U. of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada R3T 2N2 Office: 446 Machray Hall, 204-474-6470 http://www.rephil.org/ phil at rephil dot org From mpfaiffer at callapple.org Thu Dec 8 20:55:39 2005 From: mpfaiffer at callapple.org (Mike Pfaiffer) Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 19:55:39 -0600 Subject: [Python Wpg] Meeting time and location In-Reply-To: <60332.64.201.190.96.1134088702.squirrel@webmail.non-prophet.org> References: <200512081621.39338.mpfaiffer@callapple.org> <60332.64.201.190.96.1134088702.squirrel@webmail.non-prophet.org> Message-ID: <200512081955.39500.mpfaiffer@callapple.org> On December 8, 2005 06:38 pm, Phil Mendelsohn wrote this amazing epistle: > Mike Pfaiffer said: > > The 13'th is the same date as the MUUG meeting. > > > > > If there is a lot to talk about then > > perhaps 6:15 might be a better time. At about five or ten to 7:00 we > > could all collectively head over to the MUUG meeting. > > Not everyone is a MUUG member. In fact, not everyone lives in town! Relax. It was only a suggestion. ;-) Besides, the meeting is free and open to the public. I figured the Python group meeting would be brief. This way it would save those who are MUUG members an extra trip. > I like Stuart's original suggestion. Any place should be good on that > day, for me, I think. I'm OK with the day and time as long as we all agree on it. As long as it is accessible by bus, I'm fine. > I would also encourage that structure and organization be kept to a > minimum -- time, place, and one topic per meeting. It's better to run > long on a simple program than be burdened with organizing a big meeting. > No constraints beyond that -- personally, I find Python a lot more > interesting than the "Club Organization Club." ;) For next weeks meeting, it's pretty much going to be on how we are going to organise the club. At least that's how I read it. I didn't think it was already set up. After the initial meeting, subsequent meetings will be what ever the club decides. Consider it an "executive" meeting before the general meeting. Most user groups do it this way so people are prepared when it's time to speak. > Of course, I'm probably trying to recreate the environment at the TCPZUG > (Twin Cities Python/Zope Users Group) which was loosely based on the TCLUG > minimal format. I can't comment on either since I've never attended either. > The location can be flexible, but it may be easier to keep time and date > the same every month (or two-weeks, or year, or whatever). Agreed. I would also suggest a consistant location. This way it's more likely to have "walk in" traffic. If potential members have to figure out the location from meeting to meeting, they are less likely to attend. It's one thing to be an elite club but another thing entirely to discourage new membership or limit it to invitation only. > Best, > Phil M Later Mike -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Call-A.P.P.L.E. and the Digital Civilization http://www.callapple.org | | http://members.shaw.ca/pfaiffer = Mike Pfaiffer (B.A., B.Sc.) | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ----- BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK ----- Version: 3.12 GCS/G/IT/PA/SS d s+:- a? C++ UL L++ W++ N++ o+ K- w(---) O+@ M++@ V PS+ PE !PGP t+ 5+ X R tv b+ DI+++ D++ G e++* h! r-- !y-- UF++ ------ END GEEK CODE BLOCK ------ From mpfaiffer at callapple.org Sun Dec 11 13:30:12 2005 From: mpfaiffer at callapple.org (Mike Pfaiffer) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 12:30:12 -0600 Subject: [Python Wpg] Meeting time and location Message-ID: <200512111230.13260.mpfaiffer@callapple.org> Assuming I'm still on the mailing list, what has everybody decided for a time and place for the first meeting? So far I remember seeing two suggestions. Tuesday is only two days away... Later Mike -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Call-A.P.P.L.E. and the Digital Civilization http://www.callapple.org | | http://members.shaw.ca/pfaiffer = Mike Pfaiffer (B.A., B.Sc.) | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ----- BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK ----- Version: 3.12 GCS/G/IT/PA/SS d s+:- a? C++ UL L++ W++ N++ o+ K- w(---) O+@ M++@ V PS+ PE !PGP t+ 5+ X R tv b+ DI+++ D++ G e++* h! r-- !y-- UF++ ------ END GEEK CODE BLOCK ------ From stuartw at mts.net Sun Dec 11 15:47:11 2005 From: stuartw at mts.net (Stuart Williams) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 14:47:11 -0600 Subject: [Python Wpg] Meeting Tuesday December 13th 1:00 p.m. at The Fyxx Message-ID: <17308.36943.372580.761949@gargle.gargle.HOWL> I hear support from several for an organizing meeting Tuesday downtown near noon. Let's meet at 1:00 p.m. at The Fyxx at the southwest corner of Broadway and Donald (http://www.thefyxx.mb.ca/). I'll be there around 12:30 or 12:45 and ordering lunch. I think an hour would be plenty of time, but feel free to come and go when you can even if you can't stay for all of it. It certainly won't be very formal. I propose the following agenda for the meeting which is indeed an "executive meeting" to talk about what we want to do, but not to actually do too much of it. meeting dates and times venue meeting topics brainstorm for publicity website other activities beyond meetings Stuart Williams. From mpfaiffer at callapple.org Mon Dec 12 00:55:22 2005 From: mpfaiffer at callapple.org (Mike Pfaiffer) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 23:55:22 -0600 Subject: [Python Wpg] Meeting Tuesday December 13th 1:00 p.m. at The Fyxx In-Reply-To: <17308.36943.372580.761949@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <17308.36943.372580.761949@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <200512112355.22925.mpfaiffer@callapple.org> On December 11, 2005 02:47 pm, Stuart Williams wrote this amazing epistle: > I hear support from several for an organizing meeting Tuesday downtown > near noon. Let's meet at 1:00 p.m. at The Fyxx at the southwest > corner of Broadway and Donald (http://www.thefyxx.mb.ca/). I'll be > there around 12:30 or 12:45 and ordering lunch. > > I think an hour would be plenty of time, but feel free to come and go > when you can even if you can't stay for all of it. It certainly won't > be very formal. > > I propose the following agenda for the meeting which is indeed an > "executive meeting" to talk about what we want to do, but not to > actually do too much of it. > > meeting dates and times > venue > meeting topics > brainstorm for publicity > website > other activities beyond meetings > > Stuart Williams. Since there's going to be a bunch of us who've never seen each other before then perhaps a little sign on the table might be a good idea. Or something less obvious... A book on Python. ;-) Later Mike -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Call-A.P.P.L.E. and the Digital Civilization http://www.callapple.org | | http://members.shaw.ca/pfaiffer = Mike Pfaiffer (B.A., B.Sc.) | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ----- BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK ----- Version: 3.12 GCS/G/IT/PA/SS d s+:- a? C++ UL L++ W++ N++ o+ K- w(---) O+@ M++@ V PS+ PE !PGP t+ 5+ X R tv b+ DI+++ D++ G e++* h! r-- !y-- UF++ ------ END GEEK CODE BLOCK ------ From phil at rephil.org Mon Dec 12 01:05:50 2005 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 00:05:50 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Python Wpg] Meet Tues Dec 13th 1:00 p.m. at The Fyxx In-Reply-To: <200512112355.22925.mpfaiffer@callapple.org> References: <17308.36943.372580.761949@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <200512112355.22925.mpfaiffer@callapple.org> Message-ID: <63263.64.201.190.96.1134367550.squirrel@webmail.non-prophet.org> Mike Pfaiffer said: > Since there's going to be a bunch of us who've never seen each other > before > then perhaps a little sign on the table might be a good idea. Or something > less obvious... A book on Python. ;-) Not a bad idea, but you'll probably find it unnecessary you get there. I've started a couple of user's groups before, and playing "Spot the Geeks" is *not* very hard! ;) (Especially given the size and layout of the Fyxx.) That said, I'll probably bring my laptop, even if we don't really need it, though I think there's no need to wear it in my lapel. Any tips on parking? Phil M -- Dept. of Mathematics, 342 Machray Hall U. of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada R3T 2N2 Office: 446 Machray Hall, 204-474-6470 http://www.rephil.org/ phil at rephil dot org From umjenki5 at cc.umanitoba.ca Mon Dec 12 02:14:10 2005 From: umjenki5 at cc.umanitoba.ca (Mark Jenkins) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 01:14:10 -0600 Subject: [Python Wpg] Meet Tues Dec 13th 1:00 p.m. at The Fyxx In-Reply-To: <63263.64.201.190.96.1134367550.squirrel@webmail.non-prophet.org> References: <17308.36943.372580.761949@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <200512112355.22925.mpfaiffer@callapple.org> <63263.64.201.190.96.1134367550.squirrel@webmail.non-prophet.org> Message-ID: <439D2342.8090503@cc.umanitoba.ca> > "Spot the Geeks" is *not* very hard! You're right. Plus, I've met Stuart before and my laptop is a dead giveaway, I have two stickers related to free software. Also, there is a photo of me here, http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~umjenki5/ just add 2cm of facial hair. :-*)* > Any tips on parking? Parking at home and taking a bus. Transfer will probably get you home too, you could potentially spend less on busfare compared to parking. I would imagine that finding a spot at that time of day would be stressful. From phil at rephil.org Mon Dec 12 09:38:34 2005 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:38:34 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Python Wpg] Meet Tues Dec 13th 1:00 p.m. at The Fyxx In-Reply-To: <439D2342.8090503@cc.umanitoba.ca> References: <17308.36943.372580.761949@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <200512112355.22925.mpfaiffer@callapple.org><63263.64.201.190.96.1134367550.squirrel@webmail.non-prophet.org> <439D2342.8090503@cc.umanitoba.ca> Message-ID: <63337.64.201.190.96.1134398314.squirrel@webmail.non-prophet.org> Mark Jenkins said: >> Any tips on parking? > > Parking at home and taking a bus. Sorry -- there are no buses from Landmark to Winnipeg, or I'd consider it. For various logistical reasons, I can't leave the car at the U and take the bus either. That said, if anyone needs a ride from the University area, I'd be willing to offer one. Phil M -- Dept. of Mathematics, 342 Machray Hall U. of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada R3T 2N2 Office: 446 Machray Hall, 204-474-6470 http://www.rephil.org/ phil at rephil dot org From stuartw at mts.net Mon Dec 12 10:41:55 2005 From: stuartw at mts.net (Stuart Williams) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 09:41:55 -0600 Subject: [Python Wpg] Meet Tues Dec 13th 1:00 p.m. at The Fyxx In-Reply-To: <63263.64.201.190.96.1134367550.squirrel@webmail.non-prophet.org> References: <17308.36943.372580.761949@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <200512112355.22925.mpfaiffer@callapple.org> <63263.64.201.190.96.1134367550.squirrel@webmail.non-prophet.org> Message-ID: <17309.39491.978094.119793@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> Phil Mendelsohn writes: > Any tips on parking? In my experience, I often find on-street parking within a couple of blocks of my destination. Also note there's a free bus that goes past The Fyxx that loops much of downtown and the Forks, so you could park far away, but on that route, and hop on that bus. Stuart. From mpfaiffer at callapple.org Mon Dec 12 11:19:19 2005 From: mpfaiffer at callapple.org (Mike Pfaiffer) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 10:19:19 -0600 Subject: [Python Wpg] Meet Tues Dec 13th 1:00 p.m. at The Fyxx In-Reply-To: <439D2342.8090503@cc.umanitoba.ca> References: <17308.36943.372580.761949@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <63263.64.201.190.96.1134367550.squirrel@webmail.non-prophet.org> <439D2342.8090503@cc.umanitoba.ca> Message-ID: <200512121019.19203.mpfaiffer@callapple.org> On December 12, 2005 01:14 am, Mark Jenkins wrote this amazing epistle: > > "Spot the Geeks" is *not* very hard! > > You're right. Plus, I've met Stuart before and my laptop is a dead > giveaway, I have two stickers related to free software. > > Also, there is a photo of me here, > http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~umjenki5/ > just add 2cm of facial hair. :-*)* I know you. I'll bring the video I keep promising. ;-) Later Mike -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Call-A.P.P.L.E. and the Digital Civilization http://www.callapple.org | | http://members.shaw.ca/pfaiffer = Mike Pfaiffer (B.A., B.Sc.) | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ----- BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK ----- Version: 3.12 GCS/G/IT/PA/SS d s+:- a? C++ UL L++ W++ N++ o+ K- w(---) O+@ M++@ V PS+ PE !PGP t+ 5+ X R tv b+ DI+++ D++ G e++* h! r-- !y-- UF++ ------ END GEEK CODE BLOCK ------ From phil at rephil.org Mon Dec 12 11:32:49 2005 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 10:32:49 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Python Wpg] Python group name In-Reply-To: <17308.36943.372580.761949@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <17308.36943.372580.761949@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <63426.64.201.190.96.1134405169.squirrel@webmail.non-prophet.org> Sorry to dweeb, but in the cliche spirit of recursive acronyms, the name of the users group should probably be "Wpg. Python Group," or WPG for short. PhilM -- Dept. of Mathematics, 342 Machray Hall U. of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada R3T 2N2 Office: 446 Machray Hall, 204-474-6470 http://www.rephil.org/ phil at rephil dot org From mpfaiffer at callapple.org Mon Dec 12 11:37:02 2005 From: mpfaiffer at callapple.org (Mike Pfaiffer) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 10:37:02 -0600 Subject: [Python Wpg] Meet Tues Dec 13th 1:00 p.m. at The Fyxx In-Reply-To: <63337.64.201.190.96.1134398314.squirrel@webmail.non-prophet.org> References: <17308.36943.372580.761949@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <439D2342.8090503@cc.umanitoba.ca> <63337.64.201.190.96.1134398314.squirrel@webmail.non-prophet.org> Message-ID: <200512121037.02604.mpfaiffer@callapple.org> On December 12, 2005 08:38 am, Phil Mendelsohn wrote this amazing epistle: > Mark Jenkins said: > >> Any tips on parking? > > > > Parking at home and taking a bus. > > Sorry -- there are no buses from Landmark to Winnipeg, or I'd consider it. > > For various logistical reasons, I can't leave the car at the U and take > the bus either. If you are going to be in the South East area, there is a (free) Park and Ride section in the Southdale Mall. The 16 (I think) and 57 stop next to the lot. Both go directly downtown. If you don't mind walking three or four blocks North there is the 19 which runs more frequently. The 75 goes out to the U of M and Kildonan Place from there as well. > That said, if anyone needs a ride from the University area, I'd be willing > to offer one. It's a kind offer. Heading out to the U of M from here is one route downtown. It would be faster for me (and maybe you) to catch the 19 and walk a few blocks. > Phil M Later Mike -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Call-A.P.P.L.E. and the Digital Civilization http://www.callapple.org | | http://members.shaw.ca/pfaiffer = Mike Pfaiffer (B.A., B.Sc.) | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ----- BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK ----- Version: 3.12 GCS/G/IT/PA/SS d s+:- a? C++ UL L++ W++ N++ o+ K- w(---) O+@ M++@ V PS+ PE !PGP t+ 5+ X R tv b+ DI+++ D++ G e++* h! r-- !y-- UF++ ------ END GEEK CODE BLOCK ------ From mpfaiffer at callapple.org Mon Dec 12 12:45:43 2005 From: mpfaiffer at callapple.org (Mike Pfaiffer) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 11:45:43 -0600 Subject: [Python Wpg] Python group name In-Reply-To: <63426.64.201.190.96.1134405169.squirrel@webmail.non-prophet.org> References: <17308.36943.372580.761949@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <63426.64.201.190.96.1134405169.squirrel@webmail.non-prophet.org> Message-ID: <200512121145.43704.mpfaiffer@callapple.org> On December 12, 2005 10:32 am, Phil Mendelsohn wrote this amazing epistle: > Sorry to dweeb, but in the cliche spirit of recursive acronyms, the name > of the users group should probably be "Wpg. Python Group," or WPG for > short. > > PhilM That's so bad I love it. :-) Later Mike -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Call-A.P.P.L.E. and the Digital Civilization http://www.callapple.org | | http://members.shaw.ca/pfaiffer = Mike Pfaiffer (B.A., B.Sc.) | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ----- BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK ----- Version: 3.12 GCS/G/IT/PA/SS d s+:- a? C++ UL L++ W++ N++ o+ K- w(---) O+@ M++@ V PS+ PE !PGP t+ 5+ X R tv b+ DI+++ D++ G e++* h! r-- !y-- UF++ ------ END GEEK CODE BLOCK ------ From syd at plug.ca Tue Dec 13 18:42:01 2005 From: syd at plug.ca (syd at plug.ca) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 17:42:01 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Python Wpg] topics i forgot to mention Message-ID: <51482.24.79.4.246.1134517321.squirrel@mail2.plug.ca> A couple of topics that would be interesting (to me, at least) that I forgot to mention: 1. Python enhanced shells like ipython (very handy for auto completion, inspection), emacs python mode, (maybe vi(m) macros if anyone has any that they use?) 2. Python IDEs - Boa, Stani's Python Editor, Eclipse Python Plug-In (never gotten this to work, but i hear it does) (could be combined with #1 as "what tools are you using?") 3. For people who may be familiar with other object oriented languages but want to know how it's done in Python: How do modules, directories, files, and classes affect import statements, and how does that in turn affect namespaces? What does __init__.py do? How does inheritance work in Python? How do I override an inherited method? How do I call an inherited constructor? Why the heck would I *want* to call an inherited constructor? Kind of a general walk-through of how to take advantage of the object-oriented features of Python. Regards, Syd From syd at plug.ca Tue Dec 13 19:49:37 2005 From: syd at plug.ca (syd at plug.ca) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 18:49:37 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Python Wpg] Python Users Group Story on plug.ca Message-ID: <51787.24.79.4.246.1134521377.squirrel@mail2.plug.ca> I thought I would put up a quick story about today's meeting. Please suggest any revisions or enhancements I ought to make. http://plug.ca/article.php?story=20051213175736346 Regards, Syd From mpfaiffer at callapple.org Wed Dec 14 00:08:35 2005 From: mpfaiffer at callapple.org (Mike Pfaiffer) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 23:08:35 -0600 Subject: [Python Wpg] Python Users Group Story on plug.ca In-Reply-To: <51787.24.79.4.246.1134521377.squirrel@mail2.plug.ca> References: <51787.24.79.4.246.1134521377.squirrel@mail2.plug.ca> Message-ID: <200512132308.36262.mpfaiffer@callapple.org> On December 13, 2005 06:49 pm, syd at plug.ca wrote this amazing epistle: > I thought I would put up a quick story about today's meeting. Please > suggest any revisions or enhancements I ought to make. > > http://plug.ca/article.php?story=20051213175736346 > > Regards, > Syd > I have no problem with the page I read. BTW, I contacted my friend at the WPCUG about making an announcement at their meeting next week. I also contacted Gilbert at the MUUG and the announcement was made tonight. Later Mike -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Call-A.P.P.L.E. and the Digital Civilization http://www.callapple.org | | http://members.shaw.ca/pfaiffer = Mike Pfaiffer (B.A., B.Sc.) | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ----- BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK ----- Version: 3.12 GCS/G/IT/PA/SS d s+:- a? C++ UL L++ W++ N++ o+ K- w(---) O+@ M++@ V PS+ PE !PGP t+ 5+ X R tv b+ DI+++ D++ G e++* h! r-- !y-- UF++ ------ END GEEK CODE BLOCK ------ From mpfaiffer at callapple.org Wed Dec 14 00:26:52 2005 From: mpfaiffer at callapple.org (Mike Pfaiffer) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 23:26:52 -0600 Subject: [Python Wpg] Meeting dates. Message-ID: <200512132326.52098.mpfaiffer@callapple.org> Here is what I got from my friend at the WPCUG when I asked about dates to avoid a conflict. --------------------- Good idea! The WPCUG meets every third Thursday of each month except in December when the meeting is on the second Thursday. --------------------- The remainder of the message was about getting together with some old friends for lunch. I got a couple of responses about set dates. A couple people didn't like the idea of weekend meetings and a couple did. More people expressed interest in the third Tuesday date we were discussing. Only one person said noon was inconvenient. From the looks of things quite a few assumed we would eventually move to evening meetings. I work out of the basement at home so it doesn't matter to me as long as I don't have a conflict. As things start falling into place I guess we can talk about it here. The last thing I'd ask about is the DVD Python scripts Dave(?) and I were talking about. I'd like to take a look. Particularly at anything having to do with menu creation (video DVD). I'm running it under FC2 so there shouldn't be a problem... This account should be fine for something that size. Later Mike -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Call-A.P.P.L.E. and the Digital Civilization http://www.callapple.org | | http://members.shaw.ca/pfaiffer = Mike Pfaiffer (B.A., B.Sc.) | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ----- BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK ----- Version: 3.12 GCS/G/IT/PA/SS d s+:- a? C++ UL L++ W++ N++ o+ K- w(---) O+@ M++@ V PS+ PE !PGP t+ 5+ X R tv b+ DI+++ D++ G e++* h! r-- !y-- UF++ ------ END GEEK CODE BLOCK ------ From phil at rephil.org Wed Dec 14 10:40:06 2005 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:40:06 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Python Wpg] Meeting dates. Message-ID: <33422.130.179.26.225.1134574806.squirrel@webmail.non-prophet.org> Mike Pfaiffer said: > I got a couple of responses about set dates. A couple people didn't like > the idea of weekend meetings and a couple did. To be expected. In general, I think there are two options in a logistical setup like this: 1: Just pick one, and say that we're never going to make everyone happy 2: Alternate, one month Tuesday, one month Saturday. > From the looks of things quite a few assumed we would > eventually move to evening meetings. While the group will do whatever the group needs to do, my personal preference would be to see Tues. day/eve meetings alternate months with Saturday afternoons. The odds of me making an evening meeting on weekdays is extremely slight, mostly because it's a school night for my kids -- but I'm just one guy. Of course, if I get that wish, it pretty well guarantees that any of the topics I *really* want to see will be on the meetings I _can't_ make... ;) Downtown on weekdays is a bit inconvenient, but so far I am willing to be seduced by the prospects of fun. Just my 2 cents worth, Phil M -- Dept. of Mathematics, 342 Machray Hall U. of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada R3T 2N2 Office: 446 Machray Hall, 204-474-6470 http://www.rephil.org/ phil at rephil dot org -- Dept. of Mathematics, 342 Machray Hall U. of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada R3T 2N2 Office: 446 Machray Hall, 204-474-6470 http://www.rephil.org/ phil at rephil dot org From stuartw at mts.net Wed Dec 14 10:38:57 2005 From: stuartw at mts.net (Stuart Williams) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:38:57 -0600 Subject: [Python Wpg] Notes from organizational meeting. Message-ID: <17312.15505.774681.324503@gargle.gargle.HOWL> The Winnipeg Python Users Group had its first organizing meeting Tuesday December 13th. Five persons attended. We made introductions, chatted about Python, and discussed how to organize. We talked about meeting times and the advantages and disadvantages of meeting over the noon-hour. We scheduled our next meeting for Tuesday, January 17th at 12:00 noon, location to be announced. We did not assume that we would always meet during the day. There was considerable interest in meeting on a weekend, perhaps Saturday afternoon which could then spill over to dinner. >From our experiences in other computer-related user groups we discussed how to organize. There was general enthusiasm for a fairly loose organization. There was also strong sentiment that some will only attend regularly if it continues to be interesting and worthwhile to them. With respect to a web site, we thought it made sense to use the python.org wiki (http://wiki.python.org/moin/WinniPUG) at least for now. Several names were discussed including WPG and WinniPUG, but no strong direction set. With respect to getting the word out to others who may be interested, we noted the Winnipeg PC Users Group Linux forum, CIPS, St. Boniface, U of M, U of W, RRC, and SAGs (Special Area Groups) affiliated with The Manitoba Teachers's Society (Science, Math, Business and IT, and Computing groups might have interest). For high school teachers, we talked about targeting a meeting in late winter for educators, or taking a presentation to them elsewhere. The following topics were mentioned (with a few added later via email http://mail.python.org/pipermail/winnipeg/2005-December/000015.html) as possible foci for meetings, with the first two slated for January and February: Dave's recent projects (January) Database access (February) Visual Python and/or Python in Teaching (programming or ?) Zope, and Plone replacing shell scripts scientific computing Python enhanced shells like ipython and emacs python mode IDEs OO features Stuart. From phil at rephil.org Wed Dec 14 10:25:42 2005 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:25:42 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Python Wpg] Contacting UofM CS dept. In-Reply-To: <200512132326.52098.mpfaiffer@callapple.org> References: <200512132326.52098.mpfaiffer@callapple.org> Message-ID: <33398.130.179.26.225.1134573942.squirrel@webmail.non-prophet.org> I've contacted a Prof. in the CSCI dept. I served on a hiring committee with, to see if there's any resources for meetings and possibilities for a nominal "sponsorship" (for rooms, projectors, recruiting) in that dept. Will advise. Cheers, Phil M -- Dept. of Mathematics, 342 Machray Hall U. of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada R3T 2N2 Office: 446 Machray Hall, 204-474-6470 http://www.rephil.org/ phil at rephil dot org From dave at gabrielson.ca Wed Dec 14 15:09:18 2005 From: dave at gabrielson.ca (Dave Gabrielson) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 14:09:18 -0600 Subject: [Python Wpg] Python Introduction URL Message-ID: <200512141409.18134.dave@gabrielson.ca> Found this page on the python site. It's a good longer intro to the language: http://www.python.org/doc/Introduction.html --Dave. From dave at gabrielson.ca Wed Dec 14 15:02:23 2005 From: dave at gabrielson.ca (Dave Gabrielson) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 14:02:23 -0600 Subject: [Python Wpg] Python Blurb, take 1 Message-ID: <200512141402.23890.dave@gabrielson.ca> Here's my first go at the Python PR Blurb (pyPRB (?)): ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Python is a dynamically typed, object oriented scripting language which is very clear and consise. It's power lies mainly in its readability--- it is actually difficult to write code which is hard to understand in Python (the language is often referred as ``executable pseudocode''). Python is a _free_, _multi-platform_ language with built-in language support for lists, dictionaries, other useful programming features. There are interfaces to many system calls and libraries, as well as to various windowing systems (Microsoft Windows, MacOS, X11, etc.). Python can be used for just about any purpose from shell scripting to prototyping large project to web applications (it is also usable as an extension language for applications that need a programmable interface). Help for installing and downloading Python for various platforms is available on the website http://www.python.org. If you have any distribution of Linux or Mac OS X, then you most likely already have python installed on your computer! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Let me know what you folks think... suggestions welcome! --Dave. From dave at gabrielson.ca Wed Dec 14 20:07:40 2005 From: dave at gabrielson.ca (Dave Gabrielson) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:07:40 -0600 Subject: [Python Wpg] January Talk Abstract (take 1) In-Reply-To: <200512141402.23890.dave@gabrielson.ca> References: <200512141402.23890.dave@gabrielson.ca> Message-ID: <200512141907.40552.dave@gabrielson.ca> I use python every single day. I don't mean that I necessarily _program_ in python every day, but nearly every day for the past six months I use python programs that either I or someone else have written. I will be discussing my various day-to-day uses of python and python programs: topics may range from Linux distribution tools to media center applications to DVD authoring and back again. I will focus on a recent large project of my own-- the Removable Media Management Filesystem. --- For more information about python and my python projects (and uses), see http://www.gabrielson.ca/~dave/python/ --Dave From mpfaiffer at callapple.org Wed Dec 14 20:57:41 2005 From: mpfaiffer at callapple.org (Mike Pfaiffer) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:57:41 -0600 Subject: [Python Wpg] January Talk Abstract (take 1) In-Reply-To: <200512141907.40552.dave@gabrielson.ca> References: <200512141402.23890.dave@gabrielson.ca> <200512141907.40552.dave@gabrielson.ca> Message-ID: <200512141957.42860.mpfaiffer@callapple.org> On December 14, 2005 07:07 pm, Dave Gabrielson wrote this amazing epistle: Both posts look good. Later Mike -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Call-A.P.P.L.E. and the Digital Civilization http://www.callapple.org | | http://members.shaw.ca/pfaiffer = Mike Pfaiffer (B.A., B.Sc.) | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ----- BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK ----- Version: 3.12 GCS/G/IT/PA/SS d s+:- a? C++ UL L++ W++ N++ o+ K- w(---) O+@ M++@ V PS+ PE !PGP t+ 5+ X R tv b+ DI+++ D++ G e++* h! r-- !y-- UF++ ------ END GEEK CODE BLOCK ------ From dave at gabrielson.ca Wed Dec 14 21:03:26 2005 From: dave at gabrielson.ca (Dave Gabrielson) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 20:03:26 -0600 Subject: [Python Wpg] January Talk Abstract (take 1) In-Reply-To: <200512141957.42860.mpfaiffer@callapple.org> References: <200512141402.23890.dave@gabrielson.ca> <200512141907.40552.dave@gabrielson.ca> <200512141957.42860.mpfaiffer@callapple.org> Message-ID: <200512142003.26450.dave@gabrielson.ca> On December 14, 2005 07:57 pm, Mike Pfaiffer wrote: > Both posts look good. Thanks Mike. By the way, at http://www.gabrielson.ca/~dave/python/ I have a link to my DVDmaker script. It does not deal with menu issue-- although if you want to talk about that off-list I'd be more than happy to do so. --Dave. From dave at gabrielson.ca Tue Dec 20 23:02:36 2005 From: dave at gabrielson.ca (Dave Gabrielson) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 22:02:36 -0600 Subject: [Python Wpg] topics i forgot to mention In-Reply-To: <51482.24.79.4.246.1134517321.squirrel@mail2.plug.ca> References: <51482.24.79.4.246.1134517321.squirrel@mail2.plug.ca> Message-ID: <200512202202.37404.dave@gabrielson.ca> Hi Syd (& everybody else), On December 13, 2005 05:42 pm, syd at plug.ca wrote: > A couple of topics that would be interesting (to me, at least) that I > forgot to mention: > > 1. Python enhanced shells like ipython (very handy for auto completion, > inspection), emacs python mode, (maybe vi(m) macros if anyone has any that > they use?) > 2. Python IDEs - Boa, Stani's Python Editor, Eclipse Python Plug-In (never > gotten this to work, but i hear it does) (could be combined with #1 as > "what tools are you using?") Personally I use anything that supports syntax highlighting. I used to use IDLE, way back in the day... I don't know if that's even being shipped anymore. > 3. For people who may be familiar with other object oriented languages but > want to know how it's done in Python: How do modules, directories, files, > and classes affect import statements, and how does that in turn affect > namespaces? What does __init__.py do? How does inheritance work in Python? > How do I override an inherited method? How do I call an inherited > constructor? Why the heck would I *want* to call an inherited constructor? > Kind of a general walk-through of how to take advantage of the > object-oriented features of Python. Python is all about namespaces. Open an interactive shell, import something (say, the os.path module), and do a dir(os.path) on it. (I can do this for over an hour when I'm busy procrastinating). __init__.py imports things for an entire package. Let's say for example that I have a package called myos, which has a myos.path, myos.fsutil, myos.boot and myos.service modules. At the top level, you'd create a directory called myos. Inside myos, you'd create the following files: __init__.py, path.py, fsutil.py, boot.py and service.py. __init__.py is the file that defines functions that you call from myos. For example, it may define fork() and getpid() functions which you would call in your code as myos.fork() and myos.getpid(). In another module you might need to deal with services, so you could then import myos.service and call functions like myos.service.start('httpd') or myos.service.stop('samba') (or whatever). Speaking of object oriented stuff, I've just done a little program that does some OOP stuff and put it on my webpage. (viewfortune.py) http://www.gabrielson.ca/~/dave/python/ > Regards, > Syd Hope this clears a few things up, or at least doesn't muddle things worse. --Dave. From phil at rephil.org Wed Dec 21 00:08:51 2005 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 23:08:51 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Python Wpg] topics i forgot to mention In-Reply-To: <200512202202.37404.dave@gabrielson.ca> References: <51482.24.79.4.246.1134517321.squirrel@mail2.plug.ca> <200512202202.37404.dave@gabrielson.ca> Message-ID: <63600.64.201.190.96.1135141731.squirrel@webmail.non-prophet.org> Dave Gabrielson said: >(Syd said) >> 2. Python IDEs - Boa, Stani's Python Editor, Eclipse Python Plug-In >> (never >> gotten this to work, but i hear it does) (could be combined with #1 as >> "what tools are you using?") > > Personally I use anything that supports syntax highlighting. I used to use > IDLE, way back in the day... I don't know if that's even being shipped > anymore. I'm not an Emacs fanatic, but that's where I live, mostly. That pretty well takes care of anything like code display, syntax highlighting, and tagging things. My main interest is in coordinating editing and compilation. From this stand point, an IDE makes little sense for an interpreted language -- that's one of the whole points of Python (to me -- of course everyone gets their own thing out of it.) > (I can do this for over an hour when I'm busy > procrastinating). Funny -- I can do this _later_ for over an hour when I'm busy procrastinating! > http://www.gabrielson.ca/~/dave/python/ delete----^ PhilM -- Dept. of Mathematics, 342 Machray Hall U. of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada R3T 2N2 Office: 446 Machray Hall, 204-474-6470 http://www.rephil.org/ phil at rephil dot org From phil at rephil.org Wed Dec 21 00:12:35 2005 From: phil at rephil.org (Phil Mendelsohn) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 23:12:35 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Python Wpg] Update on recruit / sponsor Message-ID: <63602.64.201.190.96.1135141955.squirrel@webmail.non-prophet.org> Have spoken with a prof in the CSCI dept at the U -- nothing there will happen until after the holidays, I think, but even though this prof. isn't personally interested in Python, she did say that she'd see about hooking up with a "sponsor." Since the CSCI people all moved to new digs recently, it is all a bit up in the air. The upshot is that there might be rooms and resources available for us, but I'm still checking out any possibilities. If other people set things up elsewhere, there is no problem -- I just figure let's get as many options as possible, and then we'll burn bridges when we get to them. Will advise, PhilM -- Dept. of Mathematics, 342 Machray Hall U. of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada R3T 2N2 Office: 446 Machray Hall, 204-474-6470 http://www.rephil.org/ phil at rephil dot org From dave at gabrielson.ca Wed Dec 21 11:59:01 2005 From: dave at gabrielson.ca (Dave Gabrielson) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 10:59:01 -0600 Subject: [Python Wpg] topics i forgot to mention In-Reply-To: <63600.64.201.190.96.1135141731.squirrel@webmail.non-prophet.org> References: <51482.24.79.4.246.1134517321.squirrel@mail2.plug.ca> <200512202202.37404.dave@gabrielson.ca> <63600.64.201.190.96.1135141731.squirrel@webmail.non-prophet.org> Message-ID: <200512211059.02045.dave@gabrielson.ca> On December 20, 2005 11:08 pm, Phil Mendelsohn wrote: > Dave Gabrielson said: > > http://www.gabrielson.ca/~/dave/python/ > > delete----^ Whoops! (Apparently I've got twitchy fingers when posting to the list-- I can't even get my own URL's straight...) http://www.gabrielson.ca/~dave/python/ --Dave.