[Tutor] Python + editor

[alan.gauld@bt.com]

> > Absolutely. Like any powerful tool they aren't really 
> > intended for casual amateur use.
> 
> Hey ! :-).
> OK, I'll bite.

:-)

> Heck, python is powerful! Yet used by a lot of "casual amateur".

Python is surprisingly powerful for a general purpose 
easy to learn language but the real power programming 
tools are C/C++/Assembler etc.

Python is like nedit or IDLE or Scite.
Nice to use, powerful enough most of the time but 
ultimately there are limits.

nedit is a fine editor BTW, I use it on our unix boxes
quite often (but then I also use ed quite often!) but 
its not in the same league for speed of coding that 
vim (or emacs) is. The former because it has been 
designed for programmers and is optimised for that 
task, the latter because it has every shortcut and 
tool you can ask for ready available, and when not 
available you can write your own...

> That we should forget about using this wonderful tool just 
> because of its power?

Not at all. Just use the appropriate tool for the job.
Because I give the hard core programming jobs to other 
folks nowadays I use python for most things and let 
the 'young turks' convert it to C++ at their leisure...

> > The basic print command is easy redirecting does require 
> > memorizing a three character string but you could easily 
> > map it to a hot key!
> 
> Again, try the explain-over-a-phone-line method. 

Actually telling somebody to type three characters 
is pretty easy over the phone! If they don't already 
have nedit configured to the new settying trying to 
guide them thru that process before printing is much 
harder!

> Can u guarantee that the hot key will be the same on 
> every vim out there?

No more than you can guarantyee your remapped print 
will be the same. If I put my mapping in the global 
.exrc file I can be fairly sure its available unless 
the user remapped it - in which case they don't 
need me to tell them how to fix it!.

> Have u ever tried to use others people vim? 
> Or out of the box?

Sure, itsone reason I don't cusytomise it much. 
Most of our operational servers have vanilla vi 
never mind vim, with no customisation of any kind.

> But nedit seems the same anywhere I try to use it.

Only if its not been configured. There are 3 hard 
core nedit users here and they all have different 
configurations. I will grant the extent of the 
configuration is much less than in emacs tho'!

> emacs is a complete OS. Only lacks a descent text editor. :)

Never understood that, it has viper mode(vi emulation)! :-)

> a menu item just for this:
> Preferences -> default settings. It allows me to play with 
> the options _without_ reading a lot of docs

I set my vim options without reading lots of docs! 
But I grant its done via editing a file - its the 
unix way...

> > But surely redefining the print command is a nonsense, 
> > the print command prints. WEhat they really want to 
> > do is output to some other output device/format. 
> 
> C'mon man! This is nit-picking... :)

It was supposed to be a (bad) joke! :-)

> > Life is short thats why I stick to those things, 
> > I don't have time to waste on extra keystrokes!
> 
> Like :}! or :wq! . 

Exactly, If I'm typing I don't want to have to remove 
my hands from the keyboard to find a mouse.

> > Get a modern Mac. My iBook with Mac OS X has convinced me 
> > that Linux has so far to go I can't be bothered waiting!
> 
> Gee... Life is not _that_ short... :)

When you get to my age it is!
I want the power and usability and reliability of Unix. 
I also want things to just work.
The iBook gives me that. Linux is still a constant 
learning excercise. While that can be fun, I don't 
get much work done!

> out there! Why bother develop something new when we have 
> word, VB, aqua, quartz, IE, outlook already made, ready for use?

Because there are new things to be invented. The real 
question surely is why ewaste time reinventing the wheel 
when there are genuinely new things to invent!?

> Jokes aside, we are talking about different enjoyable 
> experiences here...

I agree. I still run a Mac, XP box and Linux server at 
home. At work I use IBM mainframe, Solaris and Win2K.
They all have their moments. Its why I work in computing! :-)

> on vendors that  hide thinks from you(API anyone?)

The Mac OS X API is fully exposed. The Windows guys are 
a wee bit more naughty revealing only some of theirs.
The implementation of both is closed although the Darwin 
kernel is of course open source.

> No thanks, I'll keep playing with my bloated gnome, my slow 
> kde, my ugly-font mozilla because I know they won't be 
> that way forever 

I dunno. All the items you mention have gotten more 
bloated, slower and only slightly prettier in the 8 or 
so years I've been using Linux!

But I'm still hopeful.
I like Linux, I'd like it to succeed but while it remains 
a hobbyist OS I'm not sure they will ever get there. 
Too many folks enjoy the tinkering IMHO.

Have fun, whatever you use! :-)

Alan g.