[Tutor] Re: [Edu-sig] RE: [Idle-dev] IDLE's save-before-run r equirement

[Guido van Rossum]

> [Mark Hammond]
> > Pythonwin does use scintilla for its console.  You are correct that it
> > is not integrated with the editor as tightly as IDLE.  This is mainly
> > doe to the fact pythonwin uses "... " as a secondary prompt, and also
> > complications with the scintilla lexer.
> 
> FWIW, I wish IDLE used "... " too -- switching between a DOS-box Python and
> IDLE is jarring.  In addition, the IDLE shell uses hard tab characters stuck
> at 8-space indents (the latter is a limitation of the Tk Text widget), while
> all the other edit windows use no hard tab characters and 4-space indents.
> So in a *typical* IDLE session (where I've also got a DOS-box Python
> running), I'm dealing with three distinct code presentations.  I can't say
> it's a physical burden <wink>, but somehow or other it is tiring!

Actually, I just downloaded and ran the latest Pythonwin available
without downloading ActivePython, and it has roughly the same
characteristics as IDLE: in its console window it uses hard tabs at 8
space distances, in its module editing it uses 4 spaces.  IDLE uses
the same defaults.

Regarding the "..." prompt: I happen to hate this, and in Pythonwin it
makes copying and pasting multi-line text from the console into a
module window a pain (you have to manually remove all the "...").

> > As a "meta comment", over 12 months ago I added a feature to Pythonwin
> > so that new IDLE extensions could be used directly by both Pythonwin
> > and IDLE.  In that time, not a single extra extension has been added
> > (that I saw) and IDLE changed its extension loading mechanism.

Yes, but the API that extensions have to conform to didn't change.
It's just the sad case that in the last 12 months *my* interest in (or
at least my ability to work on) IDLE has lapsed, for a variety of
reasons, and that may have affected others' interest -- until the
recent thread.

> > So while these things all sound good in theory, the reality is that
> > people need to actually _do_ it rather than speculate about how others
> > could do it.
> 
> I'm not sure, Mark, but you and I may be the only two people in the History
> of the Universe to actively cooperate on sharing code between two GUI
> systems (the auto-indent system shared by PythonWin and IDLE).  It wasn't
> that painful, but I recall being utterly unable to get anyone else
> interested in playing with us at the time.  Since then, IDLE has stagnated
> but remained useful, while you've gone on to fame and riches.  See?  There's
> no payback to cooperation <wink>.

:-)

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)