[TriZPUG] {conda, spyder} vs {canopy, canopy IDE} for scientific python

[Tom Roche]

summary: Thanks for your very informative response (QL;TWR[1] !-) which should really be put somewhere more search-discoverable than this list's archives.

details:

Tom Roche Fri, 12 Sep 2014 12:06:24 -0400[2]
>> My impression was, the main differences [between {conda, spyder} and {canopy, canopy IDE}] are that

>> 1. Conda supports both python 2 and python 3, while canopy (the {environment, package manager}) currently supports only python 2.

Chris Calloway Sun, 14 Sep 2014 15:10:32 -0400[3] (rearranged)
> Anaconda is really a package manager.

IIRC (which I wasn't when I asked this question), strictly speaking, "conda" is the package manager and "Anaconda" is the set of packages--no? Even more confusingly, Canopy can refer (and is, IIRC, so referred in Enthought docs) to Enthought's packages (formerly EPD), *and* Enthought's package manager, *and* their editor/IDE (no?)

> just having come from the SciPy [conference], I can report that Python 3 uptake in the scientific Python world is practically nil.

Interesting. Also my impression from the very small slice of userland with which I interact, but I thought there was more dev action.

>> 2. Canopy (the {environment, package manager}) gives one all the Enthought goodness, conda does not.

> Canopy gives all the Enthought goodness. Anaconda gives all the Continuum Analytics goodness.

I was aware of Continuum as an Enthought breakaway (but thanks for the detail), but wasn't aware of the relative size of their ecosystem. 

> The free Continuum Analytics pile of goodness is about three times as big as the Enthought free pile. [...]

> https://www.enthought.com/products/canopy/package-index/

> http://docs.continuum.io/anaconda/pkg-docs.html

and I forgot to mention the binstar "pile of goodness", including associated tools and (you report) build environment, which you also describe at length[3]--thanks again! Also, IIUC, binstar is not "just a python thing": e.g. (IIUC), some NCAR folks' todo-lists include porting their netCDF-related tools to binstar/conda for build/distribution/management, but that may also just be "word of mouth."

IMHO, binstar is talk-worthy (but hopefully in CHill :-)

FWIW, one concern I hear from users is, can Enthought "take their ball and go home"? i.e., somehow re-proprietarize NumPy/SciPy etc.

>> 3. Conda is completely free (though it has payware "add-ons"), canopy is payware. Both have free academic licenses.

>> 4. The canopy IDE's console is ipython, while spyder's console allows other shells.

> IDE used to refer to a program with a GUI designer, editor, class viewer, and debugger. These days things that pass for IDEs omit the GUI designer, which are now separate programs for each GUI toolkit like QT designer. Introspection and code completion in IPython kind of make class viewers obsolete. And a debugger is built right into Python.

Correct, and also editors (Emacs, and you note Sublime) are building-in the other development tools. But users really seem to like having "one GUI to bind them"--see, e.g., the success of RStudio. Admittedly a different space, but I know R users who won't even consider getting out of that environment: if they can't do it in RStudio, they won't do it. (Not to mention Eclipse and VS: M$ seems to have made quite sure that some things can *only* be done in VisualStudio :-)

> scientific Python is all about collaboration

except where it's about monetization :-)

> [Enthought] is a much bigger company because they've been running for a longer time. [...] Their bread and butter is still consulting for the oil and gas industry because of their awesome geological and hydrology modeling tools. But they have a renewed emphasis on training. Their previous training focus was classroom based and high dollar. Their new training focus is on the flipped classroom where you watch short videos and then work through exercises. This is a superior training model.

Agreed.

> Continuum is much smaller and leaner with mostly scientist/developers and billionaire investors. I can't even tell what their revenue model is.

Payware/add-ons (e.g., Wakari[4] which looks interesting), consulting, and training, no? Much like Enthought. The space just got too big for one company.

>> Aside from that, my impression (on linux) is, both the environments and IDEs are roughly comparable, as are the organizations backing them (Continuum Analytics and Enthought, though the latter is larger and more established). Am I missing anything?

I was, much of which you have supplied[3].

thanks again, Tom Roche <Tom_Roche at pobox.com>

[1]: "quite long; totally worth reading"
[2]: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/trizpug/2014-September/002537.html
[3]: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/trizpug/2014-September/002539.html
[4]: http://continuum.io/wakari