From skip at pobox.com  Thu Jul  2 01:51:41 2015
From: skip at pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 18:51:41 -0500
Subject: [spambayes-dev] Spambayes and the Debian Project
In-Reply-To: <874412dff18b9375c3d5b7d871593b7096966cb2.profile@montanaro.u.sourceforge.net>
References: <874412dff18b9375c3d5b7d871593b7096966cb2.profile@montanaro.u.sourceforge.net>
Message-ID: <CANc-5Uy8FEfd7S=mLipKSQW3Kf-X4uUmif+M_NDHNXg7DeL04A@mail.gmail.com>

(apologies for the top post...)

Thanks for the note, Hugo. I've cc'd spambayes-dev to my reply. Others
there (assuming there still are others) might have some suggestions.

SpamBayes has been dormant for quite some time, as you observed. I'm not
sure what you mean by "dead" though. I'm not sure what's to be done about
that. There are a few people who try to answer questions about it on the
main list (spambayes at python.org), but most of those questions come from
users of the Windows version.

I no longer use it myself anymore, except on the mail.python.org site. That
instance hasn't been updated in quite awhile either.

I'm not sure what an official "declare the end of the Spambayes project"
would mean. Do you want to take it over? Assuming you've been maintaining
it for Debian (I had no idea any Linux distros included it), I don't think
it would be a big deal to get you added as an official maintainer.

I'm not sure I've seen any bug reports, and like I said, I had no idea it
was included in any Linux distributions. Do you have specific bugs to
report?

Skip Montanaro

On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 10:07 AM, <hugo6390 at users.sf.net> wrote:
> REPLY at http://sourceforge.net/u/hugo6390/profile/send_message
>
> ________________________________
>
> Hi Skip,
>
> I'm the Debian Maintainer of the spambayes package.
>
> Today, I decided to contact you in order to clarify the situation of the
> spambayes project, which seems to be dead since 2007.
>
> Spambayes is still maintained in the Debian Project, but its maintenance
> becomes harder and harder. Spambayes will even become unusable soon.
That's
> bad, because a lot of persons are still using this software. I'm not able
to
> fix spambayes alone, and I'll have to request its deletion if don't find a
> solution.
>
> I want you to officially declare the end of the Spambayes project if it's
> the case. Otherwise, could you, please, help me to fix spambayes' bugs ?
>
> Kind Regards,
> Hugo
>
> ________________________________
>
> This message was sent to you via the SourceForge web mail form.
> Replying to this email will not work, please send a message to Hugo
Lefeuvre
> at http://sourceforge.net/u/hugo6390/profile/send_message
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From matt at mondoinfo.com  Thu Jul  2 18:36:23 2015
From: matt at mondoinfo.com (Matthew Dixon Cowles)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 11:36:23 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [spambayes-dev] Spambayes and the Debian Project
In-Reply-To: <CANc-5Uy8FEfd7S=mLipKSQW3Kf-X4uUmif+M_NDHNXg7DeL04A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <874412dff18b9375c3d5b7d871593b7096966cb2.profile@montanaro.u.sourceforge.net>
 <CANc-5Uy8FEfd7S=mLipKSQW3Kf-X4uUmif+M_NDHNXg7DeL04A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1435851892.88.451@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>

> SpamBayes has been dormant for quite some time, as you observed.
> I'm not sure what you mean by "dead" though. I'm not sure what's to
> be done about that. There are a few people who try to answer
> questions about it on the main list (spambayes at python.org), but
> most of those questions come from users of the Windows version.

I haven't had anything to say on the list for some time because
Spambayes continues to work admirably for me. I'm willing to believe
that there are bugs, but I haven't run into any at all recently. I
plan to continue to use Spambayes for all the foreseeable future.

Regards,
Matt


From amedee.vangasse at gmail.com  Thu Jul  2 21:32:19 2015
From: amedee.vangasse at gmail.com (Amedee Van Gasse)
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2015 19:32:19 +0000
Subject: [spambayes-dev] Spambayes and the Debian Project
In-Reply-To: <1435851892.88.451@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
References: <874412dff18b9375c3d5b7d871593b7096966cb2.profile@montanaro.u.sourceforge.net>
 <CANc-5Uy8FEfd7S=mLipKSQW3Kf-X4uUmif+M_NDHNXg7DeL04A@mail.gmail.com>
 <1435851892.88.451@mint-julep.mondoinfo.com>
Message-ID: <CALhozi9e75UJQ5hq-++P6EorRfz-zp=infL0f-jtDrY6QXP_dg@mail.gmail.com>

I am somewhat familiar with software packaging in Debian and Ubuntu, and I
was aware that Spambayes is included in Debian - that's how I installed it
on my server. So in theory this would make me the ideal intermediary
between the Spambayes project and a Debian package maintainer. However I
have neither the time nor the interest to take up a long term engagement.
I am willing to make a one time effort and take a look at the bug reports
in Debian's package tracker and figure out why they haven't reached the
Spambayes-dev mailing list.

Amedee Van Gasse
amedee at vangasse.eu

On Thu, Jul 2, 2015, 19:06 Matthew Dixon Cowles <matt at mondoinfo.com> wrote:

> > SpamBayes has been dormant for quite some time, as you observed.
> > I'm not sure what you mean by "dead" though. I'm not sure what's to
> > be done about that. There are a few people who try to answer
> > questions about it on the main list (spambayes at python.org), but
> > most of those questions come from users of the Windows version.
>
> I haven't had anything to say on the list for some time because
> Spambayes continues to work admirably for me. I'm willing to believe
> that there are bugs, but I haven't run into any at all recently. I
> plan to continue to use Spambayes for all the foreseeable future.
>
> Regards,
> Matt
>
> _______________________________________________
> spambayes-dev mailing list
> spambayes-dev at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/spambayes-dev
>
>
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From tony.meyer at gmail.com  Thu Jul  2 23:43:20 2015
From: tony.meyer at gmail.com (Tony Meyer)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2015 09:43:20 +1200
Subject: [spambayes-dev] Spambayes and the Debian Project
In-Reply-To: <CANc-5Uy8FEfd7S=mLipKSQW3Kf-X4uUmif+M_NDHNXg7DeL04A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <874412dff18b9375c3d5b7d871593b7096966cb2.profile@montanaro.u.sourceforge.net>
 <CANc-5Uy8FEfd7S=mLipKSQW3Kf-X4uUmif+M_NDHNXg7DeL04A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMkBFykn3sWtwNLWN4VmypD5prwkbO2CS8HWpRcy=aNLw1evSQ@mail.gmail.com>

(Apologies for my top posting as well).

I really have the same questions as Skip - what does "dead" mean, and what
is the consequence of whatever it is?

I use SpamBayes in a commercial product - its handling millions of messages
a day for us without any problems. I have been slack at pushing stuff back
upstream (it's always on my list, but never quite seems to make it to the
top. I'll try harder to fix that), but in general it is still just the core
SB package. It's certainly not unusable.

I am also using it on Debian, for what it's worth. However, I don't use the
Debian package (and wouldn't - it's pure Python so I would always use pip
rather than apt).

Cheers,
Tony

On Thursday, 2 July 2015, Skip Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> wrote:

> (apologies for the top post...)
>
> Thanks for the note, Hugo. I've cc'd spambayes-dev to my reply. Others
> there (assuming there still are others) might have some suggestions.
>
> SpamBayes has been dormant for quite some time, as you observed. I'm not
> sure what you mean by "dead" though. I'm not sure what's to be done about
> that. There are a few people who try to answer questions about it on the
> main list (spambayes at python.org
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','spambayes at python.org');>), but most of
> those questions come from users of the Windows version.
>
> I no longer use it myself anymore, except on the mail.python.org site.
> That instance hasn't been updated in quite awhile either.
>
> I'm not sure what an official "declare the end of the Spambayes project"
> would mean. Do you want to take it over? Assuming you've been maintaining
> it for Debian (I had no idea any Linux distros included it), I don't think
> it would be a big deal to get you added as an official maintainer.
>
> I'm not sure I've seen any bug reports, and like I said, I had no idea it
> was included in any Linux distributions. Do you have specific bugs to
> report?
>
> Skip Montanaro
>
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 10:07 AM, <hugo6390 at users.sf.net
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','hugo6390 at users.sf.net');>> wrote:
> > REPLY at http://sourceforge.net/u/hugo6390/profile/send_message
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > Hi Skip,
> >
> > I'm the Debian Maintainer of the spambayes package.
> >
> > Today, I decided to contact you in order to clarify the situation of the
> > spambayes project, which seems to be dead since 2007.
> >
> > Spambayes is still maintained in the Debian Project, but its maintenance
> > becomes harder and harder. Spambayes will even become unusable soon.
> That's
> > bad, because a lot of persons are still using this software. I'm not
> able to
> > fix spambayes alone, and I'll have to request its deletion if don't find
> a
> > solution.
> >
> > I want you to officially declare the end of the Spambayes project if it's
> > the case. Otherwise, could you, please, help me to fix spambayes' bugs ?
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> > Hugo
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > This message was sent to you via the SourceForge web mail form.
> > Replying to this email will not work, please send a message to Hugo
> Lefeuvre
> > at http://sourceforge.net/u/hugo6390/profile/send_message
>
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From skip.montanaro at gmail.com  Thu Jul  2 23:57:02 2015
From: skip.montanaro at gmail.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 16:57:02 -0500
Subject: [spambayes-dev] Fwd: Message with no Package: tag cannot be
 processed! (Trying to contact Debian's SpamBayes package maintainer)
In-Reply-To: <20150702211655.GC4449@hugo6390.home>
References: <CANc-5Uxiytz1xuOfWN0rRE+aTqycAVAte=_NFnpVxihZRcOnkQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <handler.x.B.14358492589307.nonumnosub@bugs.debian.org>
 <CANc-5UymE1k4WLJWM1ERw+nJRJPXostzm1=gN1YGHFi4sO8M4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150702153744.GB22885@geta> <20150702211655.GC4449@hugo6390.home>
Message-ID: <CANc-5UzCS+CWNO-vytqhMquSgHoL9NcOcRCyxMJ3eyRCrJk1xg@mail.gmail.com>

Adding spambayes-dev back in. Hopefully the conversation will be
smoother now that we have a working email address for you. Rather than
respond point-by-point, I'm just going to quote on part of your note:

Skip> I'm not sure I've seen any bug reports, and like I said, I had no idea
Skip> it was included in any Linux distributions. Do you have specific bugs
Skip> to report?

Hugo> Spambayes bugs can be found here[3]. Some bugs like #374496 or #296322
Hugo> have been forwarded, but were never answered, some other bugs like
Hugo> #315866 or #376114 weren't forwarded and won't be forwarded because
Hugo> upstream isn't responding anymore. These bugs aren't really important,
Hugo> but the problem is actually that their number is growing.

I will poke around the SF bug tracker. I haven't used it for ages. The
most recent source is on GitHub:

https://github.com/smontanaro/spambayes

Going forward, I would prefer bugs to be reported there. Note,
however, I am not going to go out and hunt down bug reports. If they
are forwarded and I can handle them, that's fine. It's not my job to
figure out all the other places people might be reporting bugs. I
don't have a bunch of time to devote to this, but a couple other
SpamBayes developers indicated they still use it (alas, they will have
all gotten bounces to their replies). Perhaps we can clean up some of
the obvious problems and push out a new release.

One of the primary reasons releases stopped was that we lost the last
person available to make Windows releases. I've created a couple other
source releases since then, but was hesitant to get too far in front
of the Windows version, since from where I sat (watching the
spambayes at python.org mailing list), most users seemed to be on
Windows.

Skip


On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 4:16 PM, Hugo Lefeuvre <hugo6390 at fr33tux.org> wrote:
> Hi Skip,
>
>> > Please forward to Hugo, your SpamBayes package maintainer. If he can't
>> > be bothered to contact me using a valid email address, I can't be
>> > bothered to jump through a bunch of hoops to get my reply back to him.
>> >
>> > I am the last developer standing of SpamBayes. I got an email a few
>> > days ago from Hugo (hugo6390 at users.sf.net), who says he is the package
>> > manager for SpamBayes on Debian. My reply bounced with SF.net issues.
>> > I'm not a Debian user or developer, and do not plan to jump through a
>> > bunch of hoops to file a bug report. Please have Hugo contact me at
>> > skip.montanaro at gmail.com from a valid email address.
>
> Please, excuse me for the trouble.
>
> The only way I found to contact you was Sourceforge's contact form and,
> for an obscure reason, Sourceforge has decided to specify an internal
> (and apparently non-working) adress in the From field. That's quite
> embarrassing.
>
>> > Thanks for the note, Hugo. I've cc'd spambayes-dev to my reply. Others
>> > there (assuming there still are others) might have some suggestions.
>> >
>> > SpamBayes has been dormant for quite some time, as you observed. I'm
>> > not sure what you mean by "dead" though. I'm not sure what's to be
>> > done about that. There are a few people who try to answer questions
>> > about it on the main list (spambayes at python.org), but most of those
>> > questions come from users of the Windows version.
>
> With 'dead', I was actually meaning that the project isn't active
> anymore, despite of the fact that the official version of the project is
> still an alpha/b?ta pre-release. I was also meaning that spambayes's
> upstream isn't providing patches anymore, though more and more bugs are
> being discovered.
>
>> > I no longer use it myself anymore, except on the mail.python.org site.
>> > That instance hasn't been updated in quite awhile either.
>> >
>> > I'm not sure what an official "declare the end of the Spambayes
>> > project" would mean. Do you want to take it over? Assuming you've been
>> > maintaining it for Debian (I had no idea any Linux distros included
>> > it), I don't think it would be a big deal to get you added as an
>> > official maintainer.
>
> I'm not a really good Python developer, so I don't intend to take the
> project over, and, that's actually the problem. More and more bugs are
> appearing, and I'm not able to fix them alone.
>
> So, I wanted to ask you if you could say me clearly if the project is
> abandonned, or just in pause. With 'official', I was meaning: Can I
> still wait some help from spambayes's Upstream ? Or, is 1.1b1
> definitely spambayes's last official version ?
>
> As far as I know, spambayes is also available in freeBSD[0], Ubuntu[1] and
> Fedora[2] (but the package seems to be orphaned).
>
>> > I'm not sure I've seen any bug reports, and like I said, I had no idea
>> > it was included in any Linux distributions. Do you have specific bugs
>> > to report?
>
> Spambayes bugs can be found here[3]. Some bugs like #374496 or #296322
> have been forwarded, but were never answered, some other bugs like
> #315866 or #376114 weren't forwarded and won't be forwarded because
> upstream isn't responding anymore. These bugs aren't really important,
> but the problem is actually that their number is growing.
>
> Moreover, it may be really problematic if a Release Critical/Security bug
> appears on this package. I wouldn't be able to fix it; It could lead to
> spambayes's removal.
>
> All in all, could you say me if I can still expect some help from
> spambayes's Upstream to fix bugs ?
>
> Best Regards,
>  Hugo
>
> [0] http://portsmon.freebsd.org/portoverview.py?category=mail&portname=py-spambayes
> [1] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/spambayes
> [2] https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/package/spambayes/
> [3] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?src=spambayes
>
> --
>       Hugo Lefeuvre (hugo6390)    |    www.hugo6390.org
> 4096/ ACB7 B67F 197F 9B32 1533 431C AC90 AC3E C524 065E

From jepler at unpythonic.net  Thu Jul  2 23:42:36 2015
From: jepler at unpythonic.net (Jeff Epler)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 16:42:36 -0500
Subject: [spambayes-dev] Spambayes and the Debian Project
In-Reply-To: <CANc-5Uy8FEfd7S=mLipKSQW3Kf-X4uUmif+M_NDHNXg7DeL04A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <874412dff18b9375c3d5b7d871593b7096966cb2.profile@montanaro.u.sourceforge.net>
 <CANc-5Uy8FEfd7S=mLipKSQW3Kf-X4uUmif+M_NDHNXg7DeL04A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150702214236.GC7393@unpythonic.net>

I am a dedicated user of spambayes, a Python programmer, and I have some
experience with Debian packaging.

I can volunteer a small and non-specific amount of time to look at
spambayes bugs in the debian bts, particularly "RC" bugs which would
lead to the package's removal from Debian.

... earlier today I submitted a patch for one debian bug,
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=789564 though my
analysis leads me to believe that the naming incompatibility in
python-lockfile doesn't actually affect spambayes.

Jeff

From hugo6390 at fr33tux.org  Fri Jul  3 00:29:16 2015
From: hugo6390 at fr33tux.org (Hugo Lefeuvre)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2015 00:29:16 +0200
Subject: [spambayes-dev] Fwd: Message with no Package: tag cannot be
 processed! (Trying to contact Debian's SpamBayes package maintainer)
In-Reply-To: <CANc-5UzCS+CWNO-vytqhMquSgHoL9NcOcRCyxMJ3eyRCrJk1xg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANc-5Uxiytz1xuOfWN0rRE+aTqycAVAte=_NFnpVxihZRcOnkQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <handler.x.B.14358492589307.nonumnosub@bugs.debian.org>
 <CANc-5UymE1k4WLJWM1ERw+nJRJPXostzm1=gN1YGHFi4sO8M4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150702153744.GB22885@geta> <20150702211655.GC4449@hugo6390.home>
 <CANc-5UzCS+CWNO-vytqhMquSgHoL9NcOcRCyxMJ3eyRCrJk1xg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150702222916.GE4449@hugo6390.home>

> I will poke around the SF bug tracker. I haven't used it for ages. The
> most recent source is on GitHub:
> 
> https://github.com/smontanaro/spambayes
> 
> Going forward, I would prefer bugs to be reported there. Note,
> however, I am not going to go out and hunt down bug reports. If they
> are forwarded and I can handle them, that's fine. It's not my job to
> figure out all the other places people might be reporting bugs. I
> don't have a bunch of time to devote to this, but a couple other
> SpamBayes developers indicated they still use it (alas, they will have
> all gotten bounces to their replies). Perhaps we can clean up some of
> the obvious problems and push out a new release.

No problem, I can forward bugs to GitHub.

> One of the primary reasons releases stopped was that we lost the last
> person available to make Windows releases. I've created a couple other
> source releases since then, but was hesitant to get too far in front
> of the Windows version, since from where I sat (watching the
> spambayes at python.org mailing list), most users seemed to be on
> Windows.

I understand.

-- 
      Hugo Lefeuvre (hugo6390)    |    www.hugo6390.org
4096/ ACB7 B67F 197F 9B32 1533 431C AC90 AC3E C524 065E
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From amedee.vangasse at gmail.com  Fri Jul  3 10:02:28 2015
From: amedee.vangasse at gmail.com (Amedee Van Gasse)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2015 10:02:28 +0200
Subject: [spambayes-dev] Spambayes and the Debian Project
In-Reply-To: <20150702214236.GC7393@unpythonic.net>
References: <874412dff18b9375c3d5b7d871593b7096966cb2.profile@montanaro.u.sourceforge.net>
 <CANc-5Uy8FEfd7S=mLipKSQW3Kf-X4uUmif+M_NDHNXg7DeL04A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150702214236.GC7393@unpythonic.net>
Message-ID: <CALhozi8ntu8fKn7V2hMmzC8O9LxUspXdkFg+bFYm4co8T30yQA@mail.gmail.com>

I see that there are already others who are even better suited for this
than myself, so I retract my offer to help out.

On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 11:42 PM, Jeff Epler <jepler at unpythonic.net> wrote:

> I am a dedicated user of spambayes, a Python programmer, and I have some
> experience with Debian packaging.
>
> I can volunteer a small and non-specific amount of time to look at
> spambayes bugs in the debian bts, particularly "RC" bugs which would
> lead to the package's removal from Debian.
>
> ... earlier today I submitted a patch for one debian bug,
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=789564 though my
> analysis leads me to believe that the naming incompatibility in
> python-lockfile doesn't actually affect spambayes.
>
> Jeff
> _______________________________________________
> spambayes-dev mailing list
> spambayes-dev at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/spambayes-dev
>
>


-- 
Amedee Van Gasse
Email: amedee at vangasse.eu
Calendar: amedee.vangasse at gmail.com
Phone: +32 485 805 674
Twitter: @amedee
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