[SciPy-dev] [Numpy-discussion] Thoughts on making it easier for numarray users to transition to scipy_core

[Andrew Straw]

Arnd Baecker wrote:

>I just had a look at http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/setuptools
>They even have what they call `bootstrap module`, ez_setup.py,
>which by inclusion
>"will automatically download and install setuptools if the user is
>building your package from source and doesn't have a suitable version
>already installed."
>
>(Personally, I am not a big fan of software "phoning" home/somewhere,
>but during installation, one could just check if a sufficiently
>new setuptools exists, and if not,  just
>   print "please run `python ez_setup.py` before installation"
>   print "to get a sufficiently new setuptools"
>and stop.
>  
>
It looks like Robert has beaten me to the punch on this email, too, but
just to throw a little water of my own on the fire, setuptools and
python eggs are controversial in some circles. (Not just ez_setup.py
that Robert pointed out.) Although I agree with you that they seem to
offer many really nice things, there have been recent raging discussions
on distutils-sig and debian-python.

One serious issue with eggs is that they are a package system outside
the control/knowledge of package managers such as debian's apt-get.
Since debian figured out package management a long time ago, and since
setuptools evolved independently of debian, largely for use outside of
debian, it's understandable that setuptools offers partially overlapping
and also portions of distinctly non-debian behavior. And it's also
understandable, but possibly avoidable and IMO definitely regrettable,
that some debian developers are actively and even vehemently resisting
setuptools.

I think eggs are great for, among other things, maintaining a personal
(non-root) cache of python packages in your personal directory, even in
a debian system. Also, since they do dependency checking of Python
packages based on what's in the packages, it means your Python
development can be with bleeding-edge stuff but still under the control
of a package manager.

And then there are OSs without package managers whatsoever, where I
suspect people may be even more enthusiastic... (At least I think they
should be!)