[Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

[Troy Rollins]

> 
> I know that there are open-source versions of all of these: SciPy, Dabo,
> Pythoncard, Zope, etc., but they don't have the polish that you'd need
> to attract the type of newbies that are at the core of this thread.
> 
True enough. There have been no shortage of excellent thoughts and
suggestions, but I think that what the new user really want, more than
"free", is something which provides a "raodmap to being productive." I
am not an inexperienced developer. I develop non-trivial applications
with high-level languages... one example
<http://www.rpsystems.net/fathom/>... I've actually written that same
application, or large portions of it in several different programming
languages, and have multiple custom versions of it running in some
extremely high-end systems of its kind. I wouldn't have a clue how to
write that application in Python. The bits and pieces of logic I can
imagine without difficulty... bits an pieces of scripts, no problem...
but the whole project? It is just too big, with too many lines of code
for me to manage with a text editor and the terminal.

Many of the (very generous) free tools that have been written by
community members are fabulous examples of the possible... but are not
really a working environment which can be trusted for large projects.
And perhaps, (as I think Bob mentioned) therein lies the problem. If
all those options didn't exist, people like me would spend the first
several months trying to find something which works like the (payware)
tools we are accustomed to.

What I *want* in an environment like Flash, Director, REALbasic, etc.
which is python-based.  I've seen a lot of great tools so far, but
none of them match the capabilities of these tools in terms of
refinement, as well as being supportive of users of all levels.
Director, as an example, is pretty friendly to newbies, but it is also
used by gurus on a level of any Python guru. There is nothing to say
that an IDE must be restrictive, either. For instance, I love the
Director IDE, but I often use SubEthaEdit to edit my Lingo scripts...
Director does not demand that it be my only script editor.

So far, Eclipse, and things like Xored TruStudio are very robust and 
look like they are heading in the right direction, for those of us who
don't need to be spoonfed, but also like a productive tool to help
keep our thoughts together while we build our products.

I plan to research some of the latest great suggestions, and I
appreciate all the comments. I do hope that these long threads are
useful to others as well, and hopefully that the community gains
insight into extending itself out to other potential "markets" beyond
the "pioneer crowd" it currently enjoys.

Cheers.
-- 
Troy Rollins
RPSystems, Ltd.
www.rpsystems.net