From ctrachte at gmail.com  Mon May  7 04:53:35 2007
From: ctrachte at gmail.com (Carl Trachte)
Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 19:53:35 -0700
Subject: [PythonCAD] newb - closed polyline
Message-ID: <426ada670705061953q12a753cdoca453e24795f492c@mail.gmail.com>

Hi.

If this is a duplicate post - my apologies.

I've used the FreeBSD 6.1 ports utility to install pythoncad revision
28.  I can't seem to figure out how to close a polyline (bring the
last segment back to the start point).  Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks a ton.

Carl T.

From ahaas at airmail.net  Mon May  7 20:47:20 2007
From: ahaas at airmail.net (Art Haas)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 13:47:20 -0500
Subject: [PythonCAD] newb - closed polyline
In-Reply-To: <426ada670705061953q12a753cdoca453e24795f492c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <426ada670705061953q12a753cdoca453e24795f492c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070507184720.GA1999@artsapartment.org>

On Sun, May 06, 2007 at 07:53:35PM -0700, Carl Trachte wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> If this is a duplicate post - my apologies.
> 
> I've used the FreeBSD 6.1 ports utility to install pythoncad revision
> 28.  I can't seem to figure out how to close a polyline (bring the
> last segment back to the start point).  Any help would be appreciated.
>

Hi.

When you want to stop drawing the polyline segments, you press the
'shift' key down and click on the final point. As you want to make
the polyline closed, simply click on the initial point where things
started.

I've not considered adding a polyline feature where the final segment
automatically "closes" things. If I get some feedback on this it may be
worth looking into.

Art Haas
-- 
Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities
the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind.

-Thomas Jefferson to James Smith, 1822

From ctrachte at gmail.com  Mon May  7 23:51:56 2007
From: ctrachte at gmail.com (Carl Trachte)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 14:51:56 -0700
Subject: [PythonCAD] newb - closed polyline
In-Reply-To: <20070507184720.GA1999@artsapartment.org>
References: <426ada670705061953q12a753cdoca453e24795f492c@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070507184720.GA1999@artsapartment.org>
Message-ID: <426ada670705071451k40373011vb95d305cde40364c@mail.gmail.com>

Art,

Thanks.  One more newb question - how do you do point snap when doing this?
 In other words, how do you snap to the exact location of the first point in
the polyline?

If this is in the FAQ or the doc, please point me in the right direction and
I'll research it further.

I haven't looked at the code yet either.  If there's a spot there that makes
it clear, I'm more than willing to investigate.

Thanks.

Carl T.

On 5/7/07, Art Haas <ahaas at airmail.net> wrote:
>
> On Sun, May 06, 2007 at 07:53:35PM -0700, Carl Trachte wrote:
> > I've used the FreeBSD 6.1 ports utility to install pythoncad revision
> > 28.  I can't seem to figure out how to close a polyline (bring the
> > last segment back to the start point).  Any help would be appreciated.
>
> When you want to stop drawing the polyline segments, you press the
> 'shift' key down and click on the final point. As you want to make
> the polyline closed, simply click on the initial point where things
> started.
>
> I've not considered adding a polyline feature where the final segment
> automatically "closes" things. If I get some feedback on this it may be
> worth looking into.
>
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From ahaas at airmail.net  Tue May  8 00:29:03 2007
From: ahaas at airmail.net (Art Haas)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 17:29:03 -0500
Subject: [PythonCAD] newb - closed polyline
In-Reply-To: <426ada670705071451k40373011vb95d305cde40364c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <426ada670705061953q12a753cdoca453e24795f492c@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070507184720.GA1999@artsapartment.org>
	<426ada670705071451k40373011vb95d305cde40364c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070507222903.GD1999@artsapartment.org>

On Mon, May 07, 2007 at 02:51:56PM -0700, Carl Trachte wrote:
> Art,
> 
> Thanks.  One more newb question - how do you do point snap when doing this?
> In other words, how do you snap to the exact location of the first point in
> the polyline?

If you click near it, the program will automatically "snap" to the
point. There is an option in the Preferences dialog named 'Highlight
Points'. If it isn't already on, turn it on and you'll see little boxes
around each Point entity. If you click within the box then the "snap"
should occur. If it doesn't happen you've most likely found a bug.

> If this is in the FAQ or the doc, please point me in the right direction and
> I'll research it further.
> 
> I haven't looked at the code yet either.  If there's a spot there that makes
> it clear, I'm more than willing to investigate.

You wrote earlier that you are using the R28 release. That release is
quite old and a number of bugs have been fixed, plus various
improvements to the program have been added. I'm not familiar 
with the BSD ports system to know if a newer releases is available, but
if so I'd try to use it. If you don't mind pulling the code straight
from the public Subversion repo that would be an even better choice.

Art Haas
-- 
Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities
the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind.

-Thomas Jefferson to James Smith, 1822

From ctrachte at gmail.com  Tue May  8 00:58:41 2007
From: ctrachte at gmail.com (Carl Trachte)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 15:58:41 -0700
Subject: [PythonCAD] newb - closed polyline
In-Reply-To: <20070507222903.GD1999@artsapartment.org>
References: <426ada670705061953q12a753cdoca453e24795f492c@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070507184720.GA1999@artsapartment.org>
	<426ada670705071451k40373011vb95d305cde40364c@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070507222903.GD1999@artsapartment.org>
Message-ID: <426ada670705071558s61b277d5hab82504252cb3a2d@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, again, Art.  I'll get to work.

I'm trying to get pythoncad set up under Cygwin.  If I have any luck with
that, I'll probably have more questions.

For now, the BSD port, although a bit dated, at least gives me a working app
that I can get started on.

Carl T.

On 5/7/07, Art Haas <ahaas at airmail.net> wrote:
>
> On Mon, May 07, 2007 at 02:51:56PM -0700, Carl Trachte wrote:
>
> You wrote earlier that you are using the R28 release. That release is
> quite old and a number of bugs have been fixed, plus various
> improvements to the program have been added. I'm not familiar
> with the BSD ports system to know if a newer releases is available, but
> if so I'd try to use it. If you don't mind pulling the code straight
> from the public Subversion repo that would be an even better choice.
>
>
>
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From daron at theswamp.org  Tue May  8 18:33:02 2007
From: daron at theswamp.org (Daron Rogers)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 11:33:02 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [PythonCAD] PythonCAD Digest, Vol 49, Issue 2
In-Reply-To: <mailman.31.1178618408.1806.pythoncad@python.org>
References: <mailman.31.1178618408.1806.pythoncad@python.org>
Message-ID: <1088.71.123.187.43.1178641982.squirrel@www.theswamp.org>

This is in regards to two topics from subject issue.
I've got R35 loaded under windows. Don't ask. However, for Carl, you'll
still need to use the items listed under the pythoncad wiki for loading
under cygwin. I once tried it under cygwin and couldn't get it working. I
didn't know about the items needed that are listed in the wiki when I
tried it under cygwin. I'm not using cygwin now, and have it loaded up
just fine because of the wiki.

As to the polyline snapping to the endpoint, maybe it's a windows thing,
but Art, it didn't snap to the end. It overlapped.


Daron

P.S. If this is not the way to reply to the mailing list, please let me
know. I'm fairly new to ML's. I'm more familiar with forums.


From ahaas at airmail.net  Tue May  8 19:51:39 2007
From: ahaas at airmail.net (Art Haas)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 12:51:39 -0500
Subject: [PythonCAD] PythonCAD Digest, Vol 49, Issue 2
In-Reply-To: <1088.71.123.187.43.1178641982.squirrel@www.theswamp.org>
References: <mailman.31.1178618408.1806.pythoncad@python.org>
	<1088.71.123.187.43.1178641982.squirrel@www.theswamp.org>
Message-ID: <20070508175139.GA1951@artsapartment.org>

On Tue, May 08, 2007 at 11:33:02AM -0500, Daron Rogers wrote:
> 
> As to the polyline snapping to the endpoint, maybe it's a windows thing,
> but Art, it didn't snap to the end. It overlapped.

I'll have to investigate. Grrr ....

> Daron
> 
> P.S. If this is not the way to reply to the mailing list, please let me
> know. I'm fairly new to ML's. I'm more familiar with forums.

There is so little traffic on the PythonCAD mailing list that there is
no wrong way to do it. If your message shows up it is right. :-)

Art Haas
-- 
Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities
the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind.

-Thomas Jefferson to James Smith, 1822

From ctrachte at gmail.com  Thu May 10 18:09:25 2007
From: ctrachte at gmail.com (Carl Trachte)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 09:09:25 -0700
Subject: [PythonCAD] newb - closed polyline
In-Reply-To: <426ada670705071558s61b277d5hab82504252cb3a2d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <426ada670705061953q12a753cdoca453e24795f492c@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070507184720.GA1999@artsapartment.org>
	<426ada670705071451k40373011vb95d305cde40364c@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070507222903.GD1999@artsapartment.org>
	<426ada670705071558s61b277d5hab82504252cb3a2d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <426ada670705100909s523c16abk6e82f0545c6e3448@mail.gmail.com>

I've got the latest source from the subversion repository and I'm using it
with Python 2.4 in Cygwin.

What I can do is draw an open polyline, then draw a segment that snaps to
the two polyline endpoints (the snap works as you, Art, described, and
colors the snapped point location box a different color than the other
points - in my case it's default blue versus default yellow).

What I haven't yet figured out is how to make the segment part of the
polyline.

Thancad (a Tkinter based Python CAD app) was actually designed for this sort
of thing.  I corresponded with its author briefly.  It's not a bad tool for
what I'm doing, but development on it has, as far as I know, stopped back in
2004.

Is this the sort of thing worth trying to incorporate into PythonCAD, or is
PythonCAD's audience less of a GIS crowd, and more of a circuit board
drawing group?

Thanks for suffering more questions.

Carl T.

On 5/7/07, Carl Trachte <ctrachte at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks, again, Art.  I'll get to work.
>
> I'm trying to get pythoncad set up under Cygwin.  If I have any luck with
> that, I'll probably have more questions.
>
> For now, the BSD port, although a bit dated, at least gives me a working
> app that I can get started on.
>
> Carl T.
>
> On 5/7/07, Art Haas <ahaas at airmail.net> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, May 07, 2007 at 02:51:56PM -0700, Carl Trachte wrote:
> >
> > You wrote earlier that you are using the R28 release. That release is
> > quite old and a number of bugs have been fixed, plus various
> > improvements to the program have been added. I'm not familiar
> > with the BSD ports system to know if a newer releases is available, but
> > if so I'd try to use it. If you don't mind pulling the code straight
> > from the public Subversion repo that would be an even better choice.
> >
> >
> >
>
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From jantonio.martin at gmail.com  Thu May 10 18:20:39 2007
From: jantonio.martin at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Antonio_Mart=EDn_Prieto?=)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 18:20:39 +0200
Subject: [PythonCAD] newb - closed polyline
In-Reply-To: <426ada670705100909s523c16abk6e82f0545c6e3448@mail.gmail.com>
References: <426ada670705061953q12a753cdoca453e24795f492c@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070507184720.GA1999@artsapartment.org>
	<426ada670705071451k40373011vb95d305cde40364c@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070507222903.GD1999@artsapartment.org>
	<426ada670705071558s61b277d5hab82504252cb3a2d@mail.gmail.com>
	<426ada670705100909s523c16abk6e82f0545c6e3448@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bbbecd180705100920i1ca16a56h80bad569a7adc2ed@mail.gmail.com>

I think that Carl is right. When you're drawing a polyline, the boxes
that should appear around the endpoints does not appear until you
finish the polyline. So I think there is no way to make a closed
polyline.

Jose.

On 5/10/07, Carl Trachte <ctrachte at gmail.com> wrote:
> I've got the latest source from the subversion repository and I'm using it
> with Python 2.4 in Cygwin.
>
> What I can do is draw an open polyline, then draw a segment that snaps to
> the two polyline endpoints (the snap works as you, Art, described, and
> colors the snapped point location box a different color than the other
> points - in my case it's default blue versus default yellow).
>
> What I haven't yet figured out is how to make the segment part of the
> polyline.
>
> Thancad (a Tkinter based Python CAD app) was actually designed for this sort
> of thing.  I corresponded with its author briefly.  It's not a bad tool for
> what I'm doing, but development on it has, as far as I know, stopped back in
> 2004.
>
> Is this the sort of thing worth trying to incorporate into PythonCAD, or is
> PythonCAD's audience less of a GIS crowd, and more of a circuit board
> drawing group?
>
> Thanks for suffering more questions.
>
>  Carl T.
>
>
> On 5/7/07, Carl Trachte <ctrachte at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Thanks, again, Art.  I'll get to work.
> >
> > I'm trying to get pythoncad set up under Cygwin.  If I have any luck with
> that, I'll probably have more questions.
> >
> > For now, the BSD port, although a bit dated, at least gives me a working
> app that I can get started on.
> >
> > Carl T.
> >
> >
> > On 5/7/07, Art Haas < ahaas at airmail.net> wrote:
> > > On Mon, May 07, 2007 at 02:51:56PM -0700, Carl Trachte wrote:
> > >
> > > You wrote earlier that you are using the R28 release. That release is
> > > quite old and a number of bugs have been fixed, plus various
> > > improvements to the program have been added. I'm not familiar
> > > with the BSD ports system to know if a newer releases is available, but
> > > if so I'd try to use it. If you don't mind pulling the code straight
> > > from the public Subversion repo that would be an even better choice.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> PythonCAD mailing list
> PythonCAD at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythoncad
>
>


-- 
"In a world without frontiers, who needs Gates and Windows?

From ahaas at airmail.net  Thu May 10 22:03:31 2007
From: ahaas at airmail.net (Art Haas)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 15:03:31 -0500
Subject: [PythonCAD] newb - closed polyline
In-Reply-To: <426ada670705100909s523c16abk6e82f0545c6e3448@mail.gmail.com>
References: <426ada670705061953q12a753cdoca453e24795f492c@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070507184720.GA1999@artsapartment.org>
	<426ada670705071451k40373011vb95d305cde40364c@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070507222903.GD1999@artsapartment.org>
	<426ada670705071558s61b277d5hab82504252cb3a2d@mail.gmail.com>
	<426ada670705100909s523c16abk6e82f0545c6e3448@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070510200331.GA15157@artsapartment.org>

On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 09:09:25AM -0700, Carl Trachte wrote:
> I've got the latest source from the subversion repository and I'm using it
> with Python 2.4 in Cygwin.
> 
> What I can do is draw an open polyline, then draw a segment that snaps to
> the two polyline endpoints (the snap works as you, Art, described, and
> colors the snapped point location box a different color than the other
> points - in my case it's default blue versus default yellow).
> 
> What I haven't yet figured out is how to make the segment part of the
> polyline.

Right now you can't. There isn't a way (yet) to combine the two entities
into a single polyline.

I've also poked around the code and know why the behavior you've
described happens. The code for drawing the Polylines is in the
'gtkentities.py' file, specifically the polyline_button_press_cb()
function. There is a test to see if a point is found near the x/y
coordinates where the mouse was clicked. When the polyline is being
created, though, any new point being added to Layer for the polyline
doesn't get created until after the final mouse click happens, so
the test "fails" in that the soon-to-be added point doesn't yet exist. A
possible fix is to examine the coordinates of the to-be-created
Polyline and see if the latest mouseclick lands near enough so that
those coordinates will be used.

> Thancad (a Tkinter based Python CAD app) was actually designed for this sort
> of thing.  I corresponded with its author briefly.  It's not a bad tool for
> what I'm doing, but development on it has, as far as I know, stopped back in
> 2004.

I'd heard of this program but haven't followed it.

> Is this the sort of thing worth trying to incorporate into PythonCAD, or is
> PythonCAD's audience less of a GIS crowd, and more of a circuit board
> drawing group?

I'm hoping that PythonCAD eventually appeals to any and every crowd
needing CAD software.

> Thanks for suffering more questions.

No problem. Keep 'em coming.

Art
-- 
Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities
the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind.

-Thomas Jefferson to James Smith, 1822

From subratmo at yahoo.com  Fri May 11 16:04:51 2007
From: subratmo at yahoo.com (subrat mohanty)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 07:04:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PythonCAD]  Free software and civil engineering?
Message-ID: <822188.80841.qm@web90402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I would like to use your free CAD.

Please let me know how to down load it


       
____________________________________________________________________________________Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting 

From subratmo at yahoo.com  Fri May 11 16:04:51 2007
From: subratmo at yahoo.com (subrat mohanty)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 07:04:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [PythonCAD]  Free software and civil engineering?
Message-ID: <822188.80841.qm@web90402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I would like to use your free CAD.

Please let me know how to down load it


       
____________________________________________________________________________________Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting 

From ahaas at airmail.net  Mon May 14 04:13:52 2007
From: ahaas at airmail.net (Art Haas)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 21:13:52 -0500
Subject: [PythonCAD] [ANNOUNCE] Thirty-sixth release of PythonCAD now
	available
Message-ID: <20070514021352.GA10397@artsapartment.org>

Hi.

I'm pleased to announce the thirty-sixth development release of PythonCAD,
a CAD package for open-source software users. As the name implies,
PythonCAD is written entirely in Python. The goal of this project is
to create a fully scriptable drafting program that will match and eventually
exceed features found in commercial CAD software. PythonCAD is released
under the GNU Public License (GPL).

PythonCAD requires Python 2.2 or newer. The interface is GTK 2.0
based, and uses the PyGTK module for interfacing to GTK. The design of
PythonCAD is built around the idea of separating the interface
from the back end as much as possible. By doing this, it is hoped
that both GNOME and KDE interfaces can be added to PythonCAD through
usage of the appropriate Python module. Addition of other PythonCAD 
interfaces will depend on the availability of a Python module for that
particular interface and developer interest and action.

The thirty-sixth release of PythonCAD is primarily a bug-fix release.
A number or bugs relating to saving and loading user preferences that
appeared in the thirty-fifth release have been fixed. Also, several
number of bugs involving entity redrawing have been corrected, as
well as bugs regarding the typing of various commands within the
text entry box in the display.

A mailing list for the development and use of PythonCAD is available.
Visit the following page for information about subscribing and viewing
the mailing list archive:

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythoncad

Visit the PythonCAD web site for more information about what PythonCAD
does and aims to be:

http://www.pythoncad.org/

Come and join me in developing PythonCAD into a world class drafting
program!

Art Haas
-- 
Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities
the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind.

-Thomas Jefferson to James Smith, 1822

From bizello at fec.unicamp.br  Wed May 23 19:17:51 2007
From: bizello at fec.unicamp.br (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Tecg=BA_S=E9rgio_A._Bizello?=)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 14:17:51 -0300
Subject: [PythonCAD] To adapt LISP routine to Pythoncad
Message-ID: <001601c79d5e$4b4d9210$717f6a8f@cproj18>

Hi !

Wich is the Pythoncad programming language if I want to create something as a script or other commands sequence for work's routine?

How I load Pythoncad commands inside this "automation" ? 
For example, how can I create a script that draw a line between two specific points or rotate an existing object ?

How can I adapt a LISP routine from AutoCAD to PythonCAD ?
Can I create dialogue boxes ?

Thank you.

S?rgio
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From ahaas at airmail.net  Thu May 24 03:02:08 2007
From: ahaas at airmail.net (Art Haas)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 20:02:08 -0500
Subject: [PythonCAD] To adapt LISP routine to Pythoncad
In-Reply-To: <001601c79d5e$4b4d9210$717f6a8f@cproj18>
References: <001601c79d5e$4b4d9210$717f6a8f@cproj18>
Message-ID: <20070524010208.GE15462@artsapartment.org>

On Wed, May 23, 2007 at 02:17:51PM -0300, Tecg? S?rgio A. Bizello wrote:
> Hi !

Hi.
 
> Wich is the Pythoncad programming language if I want to create
> something as a script or other commands sequence for work's routine?

Python is your best bet. :-)

> How I load Pythoncad commands inside this "automation" ? 

If I'm understanding you correctly, you want to work on your scripts
while running PythonCAD, and then loading them into your active session
so you can use them. I think you can do this right now by typing
something like  ...

execfile("/path/to/your/python/code.py")

... in the entry box at the bottom of the screen, but I've not tried
this lately so it may not work.

> For example, how can I create a script that draw a line between
> two specific points or rotate an existing object ?

You can do both of those tasks right now through the interface. If you
are trying to make actions like this into scriptable actions you'll
need to figure out what steps you want the user to follow for your
script to get the needed parameters.

Creating a Segment from two points is essentially the following:

def add_set(p1, p2)
   lp1 = p1.getParent()
   lp2 = p2.getParent()
   if lp1 is not None and lp2 is not None and lp1 is lp2:
      seg = segment.Segment(p1, p2)
      lp1.addObject(seg)

In the example we test that both the parent layer of 'p1' and 'p2'
are the same (and not None) and, if so, make a new segment and add
it into the layer. You can expand this by doing things like adjusting
the color, linetype, and line style if you want. As for rotating
objects, look in 'PythonCAD/Generic/rotate.py' for how things currently
work.

> How can I adapt a LISP routine from AutoCAD to PythonCAD ?

That would be a neat trick. Right now I don't know, and PythonCAD
currently can't parse AutoLisp routines. There would need to be
some sort of lisp parser added to the PythonCAD code for something
like this to work.

> Can I create dialogue boxes ?

Yes. Look at various files in 'PythonCAD/Interface/Gtk' for bits
of code making 'gtk.Dialog' objects.

> Thank you.

You're welcome.

Art Haas
-- 
Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities
the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind.

-Thomas Jefferson to James Smith, 1822

From ahaas at airmail.net  Thu May 24 20:59:27 2007
From: ahaas at airmail.net (Art Haas)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 13:59:27 -0500
Subject: [PythonCAD] Post R36 plans
Message-ID: <20070524185927.GA7734@artsapartment.org>

Hi.

I made the thirty-sixth release about two weeks ago, then picked up some
contract work which kept me busy. I'd meant to mail the list sooner with
a post-release note.

It took far too long between the thirty-fifth and thirty-sixth release,
and I'd like to avoid that happening again. There were a couple of
months where I got nothing accomplished, and I had a stretch of time
doing contract work which kept me busy but not with PythonCAD. It is
clear to me that more developers are needed to keep the project moving
at a decent pace and avoid long delays between releases. This note,
then, can be considered somewhat a 'call-for-help' note as well as a
'call-for-suggestions' as to what I can do to help encourage more people
to regularly contribute to PythonCAD development.

One thing I want to do, and I've said it before, is to replace the
centralized Subversion repository with a distributed SCM. I'm 99.999%
certain it will be git, as I use git for building the Linux kernel and
retrieving code from a variety of projects. One drawback to git is there
is not a native Windows client right now. Aside from the recent work
done to store the preferences in the APPDATA directory common to other
Windows programs I hear next to nothing from Windows users and don't
regularly get patches from them so I'm guessing they get PythonCAD via
the tarball releases and not Subversion.

Switching to a distributed SCM will hopefully encourage more developers
to invest some time with PythonCAD as their local copy of the tree will
be entirely theirs to play with - commit, delete, modify, etc. The
current centralized model requires people to send me patches, wait for
me to commit them, and then push my tree out. While I feel that this
model has worked well enough at the start of the project, it is time to
change and the availability of distributed open-source SCM packages
like git make a transition possible. I'll e-mail the list more info
regarding my plans and efforts shortly.

Please feel free to add your comments about what can be done to help
bring more developers into PythonCAD.

Art
-- 
Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities
the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind.

-Thomas Jefferson to James Smith, 1822

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Fri May 25 01:06:43 2007
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 16:06:43 -0700
Subject: [PythonCAD] Post R36 plans
In-Reply-To: <20070524185927.GA7734@artsapartment.org>
References: <20070524185927.GA7734@artsapartment.org>
Message-ID: <200705241606.43792.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from Art Haas
# on Thursday 24 May 2007 11:59 am:

>One thing I want to do, and I've said it before, is to replace the
>centralized Subversion repository with a distributed SCM.

I have some doubts that this will make that big of a difference to 
contributors.  Maybe there are a lot of people lurking here that will 
tell you differently, but svk already runs everywhere without you 
making changes to the repository, so if developers are being held back 
by the centralized SCM they should have figured out svk by now.

As for "patch latency" -- if indiscriminantly handing out commit bits 
for the branches/ dir doesn't do the trick, git won't either.

Casual developers in general don't typically have a great grasp of SCM 
anyway.

That's just my take on it.  I think SCM is fairly minor among the number 
of factors in open-source community building.

While there's no science to it, I think the time/money, skill, and 
motivation factors are more significant.  What is the barrier-to-entry 
for developers and what audience (i.e. profession) are they in?

--Eric
-- 
We who cut mere stones must always be envisioning cathedrals.
--Quarry worker's creed
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From glenn at chromakinetics.com  Fri May 25 06:37:12 2007
From: glenn at chromakinetics.com (Glenn Meader)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 21:37:12 -0700
Subject: [PythonCAD] Centralized SCM not the problem
In-Reply-To: <200705241606.43792.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <20070525043724.9093C1E4005@bag.python.org>

I agree that centralized SCM is not an issue preventing participation by
developers.

Other issues are much more critical.
PythonCAD is a moderately complex application. 
I am a casual developer just learning Python.

One major barrier to my participation is simply figuring out how the code is
architected so that I can understand where to make changes and/or additions.

I spent a bunch of hours on this, submitted some patches for R36, but still
don't know how to get started implementing things.

For example:
Implementing Architectural dimensions (Feet, inches and fractions). I sent
Art some Python code to convert decimal feet to Arch dims, but I can't yet
figure out how to integrate that code into PythonCAD...

I'd also like to add scrollbars to the drawing area, but there's a huge
learning curve to the GTK toolkit, and I don't really understand how
PythonCAD draws into the drawing area enough to understand how implementing
scrolling would affect that.

More detailed code documentation and a detailed spec of the software
architecture would be very helpful. Like: exactly what methods in what
objects are called when a user clicks a button to do something.

-----Original Message-----
From: pythoncad-bounces at python.org [mailto:pythoncad-bounces at python.org] On
Behalf Of Eric Wilhelm
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 4:07 PM
To: pythoncad at python.org
Subject: Re: [PythonCAD] Post R36 plans

# from Art Haas
# on Thursday 24 May 2007 11:59 am:

>One thing I want to do, and I've said it before, is to replace the
>centralized Subversion repository with a distributed SCM.

I have some doubts that this will make that big of a difference to 
contributors.  

That's just my take on it.  I think SCM is fairly minor among the number 
of factors in open-source community building.

While there's no science to it, I think the time/money, skill, and 
motivation factors are more significant.  What is the barrier-to-entry 
for developers and what audience (i.e. profession) are they in?

--Eric



From jantonio.martin at gmail.com  Fri May 25 08:39:30 2007
From: jantonio.martin at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Antonio_Mart=EDn_Prieto?=)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 08:39:30 +0200
Subject: [PythonCAD] Centralized SCM not the problem
In-Reply-To: <20070525043724.9093C1E4005@bag.python.org>
References: <200705241606.43792.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<20070525043724.9093C1E4005@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <bbbecd180705242339x7a55191fk35be72ab8a947460@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
I agree with both Glenn and Eric.
I think that SCM could be justified if there were a lot of developers,
and changes to the code in the repo were dependent on Art. But this is
not the case: there are not a lot of developers.
By the way, I know how to use svn, but I don't know anything about SCM and git.

I'm, much like Glenn, a casual developer. I have coded some basic
python programs and have read a lot about python. But I really get
lost in PythonCAD code. This is a problem of mine, because PythonCAD
code is great, as are the guidelines that art wrote in the website.

I would like to help further in the development of PythonCAD. I made
up the web site and created the wiki, but I would like to do some hard
work also. But a project as complex as PythonCAD is too much for me at
the moment.

So I have a suggestion. In order to help casual developers, maybe Art
(and other expert developers, if any) could write a more exhaustive
guide for PythonCAD coding, so that the architecture is more
understandable. I know this effort could seem useless in the short
term, but I'm sure that it could encourage more casual developers in
the long term.

About the profile of potential developers, I think that there are two
groups interested in PythonCAD. First, expert coders with only basic
knowledge of CAD, and second, expert CAD users with only basic
knowledge of programming. That's why I think that my suggestion could
be useful.

-- Jos? Antonio

On 5/25/07, Glenn Meader <glenn at chromakinetics.com> wrote:
> I agree that centralized SCM is not an issue preventing participation by
> developers.
>
> Other issues are much more critical.
> PythonCAD is a moderately complex application.
> I am a casual developer just learning Python.
>
> One major barrier to my participation is simply figuring out how the code is
> architected so that I can understand where to make changes and/or additions.
>
> I spent a bunch of hours on this, submitted some patches for R36, but still
> don't know how to get started implementing things.
>
> For example:
> Implementing Architectural dimensions (Feet, inches and fractions). I sent
> Art some Python code to convert decimal feet to Arch dims, but I can't yet
> figure out how to integrate that code into PythonCAD...
>
> I'd also like to add scrollbars to the drawing area, but there's a huge
> learning curve to the GTK toolkit, and I don't really understand how
> PythonCAD draws into the drawing area enough to understand how implementing
> scrolling would affect that.
>
> More detailed code documentation and a detailed spec of the software
> architecture would be very helpful. Like: exactly what methods in what
> objects are called when a user clicks a button to do something.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pythoncad-bounces at python.org [mailto:pythoncad-bounces at python.org] On
> Behalf Of Eric Wilhelm
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 4:07 PM
> To: pythoncad at python.org
> Subject: Re: [PythonCAD] Post R36 plans
>
> # from Art Haas
> # on Thursday 24 May 2007 11:59 am:
>
> >One thing I want to do, and I've said it before, is to replace the
> >centralized Subversion repository with a distributed SCM.
>
> I have some doubts that this will make that big of a difference to
> contributors.
>
> That's just my take on it.  I think SCM is fairly minor among the number
> of factors in open-source community building.
>
> While there's no science to it, I think the time/money, skill, and
> motivation factors are more significant.  What is the barrier-to-entry
> for developers and what audience (i.e. profession) are they in?
>
> --Eric
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> PythonCAD mailing list
> PythonCAD at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythoncad
>


-- 
"In a world without frontiers, who needs Gates and Windows?

From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Fri May 25 10:00:47 2007
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 01:00:47 -0700
Subject: [PythonCAD] Centralized SCM not the problem
In-Reply-To: <bbbecd180705242339x7a55191fk35be72ab8a947460@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200705241606.43792.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<20070525043724.9093C1E4005@bag.python.org>
	<bbbecd180705242339x7a55191fk35be72ab8a947460@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200705250100.47791.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from Jos? Antonio Mart?n Prieto
# on Thursday 24 May 2007 11:39 pm:

>So I have a suggestion. In order to help casual developers, maybe Art
>(and other expert developers, if any) could write a more exhaustive
>guide for PythonCAD coding, so that the architecture is more
>understandable.

Has there been any work in the python community to create dot (graphviz) 
diagrams of code flow/linkage?  Yes that could be difficult to do as 
static analysis, but maybe possible at runtime.

Possibly just adding a hotkey to dump a trace from A to B (e.g. 
Ctrl+Alt+A sets the start and Ctrl+Alt+B dumps the trace.)  I'm not 
familiar with the python debugging scheme, but this sort of thing would 
definitely give casual developers a way to figure out what code is 
being triggered by their actions in the GUI.

Maybe you want the "trace" module?  (trace.run() has to run on main() ?)  
If it means relaunching, then possibly the hotkeys are just to mark the 
trace output, then maybe a post-process filter to dump just the 
relevant bits?

If it requires pdb, maybe it would be beneficial to write a frontend 
that allows newbies to extract this information without really learning 
the debugger.  That, or a howto.

If you understand objects/classes/methods, you can probably manage to 
make a useful change in a big program even without learning everything 
about it.  The trouble is usually in the several hours spent trying to 
figure out how we get from main() to foo.thingamajig() and/or 
discovering that thingamajig is the method in question.

I spent the better part of last week discovering how mozilla's 
link-clicked handling works.  It took me way too long to discover the 
magic environment variable NSPR_LOG_MODULES and even then the code flow 
and consequence was far from intuitive.  I think python has the tools 
to make that much easier :-D

--Eric
-- 
Chicken farmer's observation:  Clunk is the past tense of cluck.
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From daron at theswamp.org  Fri May 25 14:30:18 2007
From: daron at theswamp.org (Daron Rogers)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 07:30:18 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [PythonCAD] Post R36 and SCM
In-Reply-To: <mailman.29.1180087206.15127.pythoncad@python.org>
References: <mailman.29.1180087206.15127.pythoncad@python.org>
Message-ID: <1100.71.123.187.43.1180096218.squirrel@www.theswamp.org>

I have had an interest in helping program PCad, but am still quite a
newbie when it comes to programming classes and GTK. Also, time is a
constraint. Work does tend to get in the way. As for SCM, I agree with the
others. No need to change from SVN. As for how to go about attracting more
programmers, how about a list of needs for the program and then delegate
them out. Of course, to know what's needed one might need to have
suggestions, right? How's hatching coming? Block objects would be good. Of
course, you'd need to have a way to explode objects. Then as well, mutable
block objects would be even better than the static ones or even the new
dynamic blocks from autocad. How about more object relatability? This
would be similar to how parametric programs use objects, like walls. As I
understand it this alleviates the need for more complex layering systems.
Well, there are a few suggestions for further development.

Daron


From glenn at chromakinetics.com  Fri May 25 17:08:25 2007
From: glenn at chromakinetics.com (Glenn Meader)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 08:08:25 -0700
Subject: [PythonCAD] List of desired features on Wiki
In-Reply-To: <1100.71.123.187.43.1180096218.squirrel@www.theswamp.org>
Message-ID: <20070525150835.A13251E404C@bag.python.org>

There is a list of desired features on the PythonCAD Wiki.

http://morgul.no-ip.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=feature_requests

Please add your suggestions to this list (it's easy).


-----Original Message-----
From: pythoncad-bounces at python.org [mailto:pythoncad-bounces at python.org] On
Behalf Of Daron Rogers
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 5:30 AM
To: pythoncad at python.org
Subject: [PythonCAD] Post R36 and SCM

how about a list of needs for the program and then delegate
them out. Of course, to know what's needed one might need to have
suggestions, right? 

How's hatching coming? 

Block objects would be good. Of course, you'd need to have a way to explode
objects. Then as well, mutable block objects would be even better than the
static ones or even the new dynamic blocks from autocad. 

How about more object relatability? This would be similar to how parametric
programs use objects, like walls. As I understand it this alleviates the
need for more complex layering systems.

Daron



From nescivi at gmail.com  Sat May 26 03:07:09 2007
From: nescivi at gmail.com (nescivi)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 03:07:09 +0200
Subject: [PythonCAD] Centralized SCM not the problem
In-Reply-To: <200705250100.47791.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
References: <200705241606.43792.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<bbbecd180705242339x7a55191fk35be72ab8a947460@mail.gmail.com>
	<200705250100.47791.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
Message-ID: <200705260307.09228.nescivi@gmail.com>

On Friday 25 May 2007 10:00:47 Eric Wilhelm wrote:
> # from Jos? Antonio Mart?n Prieto
>
> # on Thursday 24 May 2007 11:39 pm:
> >So I have a suggestion. In order to help casual developers, maybe Art
> >(and other expert developers, if any) could write a more exhaustive
> >guide for PythonCAD coding, so that the architecture is more
> >understandable.
>
> Has there been any work in the python community to create dot (graphviz)
> diagrams of code flow/linkage?  Yes that could be difficult to do as
> static analysis, but maybe possible at runtime.

does Doxygen work on Python code?

that is usually quite a good method to get to know your way around code.

sincerely,
marije

From glenn at chromakinetics.com  Sat May 26 04:41:49 2007
From: glenn at chromakinetics.com (Glenn Meader)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 19:41:49 -0700
Subject: [PythonCAD] Doc tools are not the solution.
In-Reply-To: <200705260307.09228.nescivi@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070526024158.794331E4007@bag.python.org>

Doxygen works with Python. It would be a somewhat useful to have Doxygen run
on the PythonCAD code. Perhaps I will do that. I already tried PyDoc. It was
not very useful.

However using a doc tool is not a solution to the PythonCAD problem.

Doc tools are great for documenting APIs that were designed from the ground
up to be a programmer *interface* to be used by others.

However, doc tools are not so good for documenting complete applications.
This requires a human to actually write descriptions of the architecture --
how the flow of control moves between objects. How the objects actually
interact when a user clicks on some UI widget. Prose examples that
demonstrate how each major feature works... Perhaps even flowcharts...

Jos? gives an excellent suggestion below.

Art, in what city do you live?  Perhaps someone could visit you and record
an audio interview as you describe the architecture...

I started documenting the code on the PythonCAD Wiki:
http://morgul.no-ip.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=program_code_description

Feel free to add your contributions to the PythonCAD Wiki!

Glenn Meader
Berkeley, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: pythoncad-bounces at python.org [mailto:pythoncad-bounces at python.org] On
Behalf Of nescivi
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 6:07 PM
To: pythoncad at python.org
Subject: Re: [PythonCAD] Centralized SCM not the problem

On Friday 25 May 2007 10:00:47 Eric Wilhelm wrote:
> # from Jos? Antonio Mart?n Prieto
>
> # on Thursday 24 May 2007 11:39 pm:
> >So I have a suggestion. In order to help casual developers, maybe Art
> >(and other expert developers, if any) could write a more exhaustive
> >guide for PythonCAD coding, so that the architecture is more
> >understandable.
>
> Has there been any work in the python community to create dot (graphviz)
> diagrams of code flow/linkage?  Yes that could be difficult to do as
> static analysis, but maybe possible at runtime.

does Doxygen work on Python code?

that is usually quite a good method to get to know your way around code.

sincerely,
marije



From scratchcomputing at gmail.com  Sat May 26 05:06:33 2007
From: scratchcomputing at gmail.com (Eric Wilhelm)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 20:06:33 -0700
Subject: [PythonCAD] tracing pythoncad
In-Reply-To: <200705260307.09228.nescivi@gmail.com>
References: <200705241606.43792.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<200705250100.47791.ewilhelm@cpan.org>
	<200705260307.09228.nescivi@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200705252006.33511.ewilhelm@cpan.org>

# from nescivi
# on Friday 25 May 2007 06:07 pm:

>does Doxygen work on Python code?

I agree with Glen here.  I'll add that doxygen was really intended for 
static code -- dynamic languages can do much more powerful things.

If someone is familiar with python's concept of runtime and debugging, 
please look into this:  building a wrapper that launches pythoncad with 
trace.run() would be IMO the most valuable tool for understanding what 
is happening.

Glen is right about the architecture overview issue -- it would be very 
valuable.

However, I imagine that fully understanding the architecture is possibly 
too time-consuming and is a large conceptual burden as far as making 
simple changes go.  That is, a lower barrier to entry would allow 
someone who is completely unfamiliar with the architecture to make a 
useful addition or change by easily discoving what bits of code are 
relevant.  Or, "understanding the whole by starting with the details."  
I think it is much easier to stay motivated and not get overwhelmed if 
you can clearly see what is happening and what you want to have happen.  
If you can easily make a difference, you'll keep coming back to do 
more.

Just get the patience required for first-time hacking down to about 5 
minutes or less (this roughly assumes a familiarity with python, but 
zero familiarity with pythoncad.)  If you can give instructions as 
simple as this, I think you'll have it:

  svn co \
    http://subversion.pythoncad.org:9000/svn/pythoncad/trunk pythoncad
  cd pythoncad
  # setup.py?
  python tracegtkpycad.py
  # now hit Ctrl+Alt+1, do stuff, hit Ctrl+Alt+2
  $EDITOR pycadtrace.txt

--Eric
-- 
So malloc calls a timeout and starts rummaging around the free chain,
sorting things out, and merging adjacent small free blocks into larger
blocks. This takes 3 1/2 days.
--Joel Spolsky
---------------------------------------------------
    http://scratchcomputing.com
---------------------------------------------------

From floris.bruynooghe at gmail.com  Sat May 26 14:12:25 2007
From: floris.bruynooghe at gmail.com (Floris Bruynooghe)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 13:12:25 +0100
Subject: [PythonCAD] Doc tools are not the solution.
In-Reply-To: <20070526024158.794331E4007@bag.python.org>
References: <200705260307.09228.nescivi@gmail.com>
	<20070526024158.794331E4007@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <20070526121225.GA24356@laurie.devork>

On Fri, May 25, 2007 at 07:41:49PM -0700, Glenn Meader wrote:
> Doxygen works with Python. It would be a somewhat useful to have Doxygen run
> on the PythonCAD code. Perhaps I will do that. I already tried PyDoc. It was
> not very useful.

I must agree here, I have before explored the code using pydoc trying
to learn my way around it.

> However using a doc tool is not a solution to the PythonCAD problem.
> 
> Doc tools are great for documenting APIs that were designed from the ground
> up to be a programmer *interface* to be used by others.
> 
> However, doc tools are not so good for documenting complete
> applications.

Sure, I partially agree here.  But I'll also argue that
PythonCAD/Generic *is* supposed to be an library with good API to be
used by the people hacking on the interfaces.

I have, a while ago, started to figure out to add complete docstrings
to something as basic as entity.py while reading the code.  I do
believe that a good structured program (which I'm sure pythoncad is)
and good docstrings (which it is lacking currently IMHO) help a great
deal with understanding it all.

That doesn't mean that the effort you describe, creating architecture
overviews, are not useful and important.  I just wanted to argue that
adding good docstings (and thus improving pydoc and doxygen) are also
a worthwile effort.  Maybe I should have a look at that again and
actually produce some patches...

Regards
Floris

-- 
Debian GNU/Linux -- The Power of Freedom
www.debian.org | www.gnu.org | www.kernel.org

From daron at theswamp.org  Sat May 26 16:46:14 2007
From: daron at theswamp.org (Daron Rogers)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 09:46:14 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [PythonCAD] List of desired features on Wiki... and what about
	them?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.21.1180173608.19190.pythoncad@python.org>
References: <mailman.21.1180173608.19190.pythoncad@python.org>
Message-ID: <58539.71.123.187.43.1180190774.squirrel@www.theswamp.org>

Thanks Glen for pointing me to the wiki. Guess I forgot about that.
However, what about the delegation part of my previous comment? Who are
the programmers to PyCAD? How many are there presently? Are the different
"wish list" items being worked on by specific individuals or is it a whom
ever feels like it sort of thing? Can these questions also be answered on
the wiki?


From ahaas at airmail.net  Sat May 26 18:26:55 2007
From: ahaas at airmail.net (Art Haas)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 11:26:55 -0500
Subject: [PythonCAD] List of desired features on Wiki... and what about
	them?
In-Reply-To: <58539.71.123.187.43.1180190774.squirrel@www.theswamp.org>
References: <mailman.21.1180173608.19190.pythoncad@python.org>
	<58539.71.123.187.43.1180190774.squirrel@www.theswamp.org>
Message-ID: <20070526162655.GB2239@artsapartment.org>

On Sat, May 26, 2007 at 09:46:14AM -0500, Daron Rogers wrote:
> Thanks Glen for pointing me to the wiki. Guess I forgot about that.
> However, what about the delegation part of my previous comment? Who are
> the programmers to PyCAD? How many are there presently? Are the different
> "wish list" items being worked on by specific individuals or is it a whom
> ever feels like it sort of thing? Can these questions also be answered on
> the wiki?

I'm the only regular programmer on the project. Other people have
contributed bug fixes and patches, but there hasn't been anyone who has
become a regular contributor. That's the problem I'm hoping to resolve,
and I'm glad to see that there's been some traffic on the mailing list
discussing this.

The PythonCAD code is, in my view, easier to comprehend than code
written in a lower level language like C or C++, and I've always hoped
that by making the language hurdle lower more people would consider
contributing. It will take some time to dig through the code to start to
see how the pieces fit together, and it's my fault that the
documentation, or lack thereof, is primarily comments in the code and
doc strings.

I also know that contributing to an open source project is dependent on
just how much of their free time someone can devote to working on
something like PythonCAD. I've felt that projects like PythonCAD will
have a harder time drawing developers because the program is targeted to
a specific segment of computer users that typically don't code general
applications. A CAD package is probably of little interest to most
programmers as it isn't the type of software they would use on a daily
basis. It's a challenge to attract programmers to contribute to most
open-source packages, especially not the high profile programs like the
Linux kernel, GCC, KDE, GNOME, the various BSD distros, etc.

Art
-- 
Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities
the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind.

-Thomas Jefferson to James Smith, 1822

From nelson at crynwr.com  Sat May 26 19:02:37 2007
From: nelson at crynwr.com (Russ Nelson)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 13:02:37 -0400
Subject: [PythonCAD] List of desired features on Wiki... and what
	about	them?
In-Reply-To: <20070526162655.GB2239@artsapartment.org>
References: <mailman.21.1180173608.19190.pythoncad@python.org>
	<58539.71.123.187.43.1180190774.squirrel@www.theswamp.org>
	<20070526162655.GB2239@artsapartment.org>
Message-ID: <18008.26669.577584.327637@desk.crynwr.com>

Art Haas writes:
 > I'm the only regular programmer on the project. Other people have
 > contributed bug fixes and patches, but there hasn't been anyone who has
 > become a regular contributor. That's the problem I'm hoping to resolve,
 > and I'm glad to see that there's been some traffic on the mailing list
 > discussing this.

I'm one of the people who contributed a little bit to PythonCAD.  I
used it for what I needed, and didn't have any call for it after that.

I'm thinking, though, that the Big Blue Saw folks (CC'ed) might want
to give it the ability to generate output that they could use.  They
could then point folks to a CAD package that's easy to use and Open
Source.

I was planning to use the Big Blue Saw (http://www.bigbluesaw.com) for
a project, but found a better method for mounting my parts.

-- 
--my blog is at    http://blog.russnelson.com   | In my head, I'm
Crynwr sells support for free software  | PGPok | violating your
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-323-1241       | software patent.
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213  |     Sheepdog          | So sue me!

From glenn at chromakinetics.com  Sat May 26 22:56:25 2007
From: glenn at chromakinetics.com (Glenn Meader)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 13:56:25 -0700
Subject: [PythonCAD] Other Linux CAD applications as examples
In-Reply-To: <18008.26669.577584.327637@desk.crynwr.com>
Message-ID: <20070526205637.658881E4009@bag.python.org>


List Of Linux CAD apps - some of which are open-source
http://www.tech-edv.co.at/lunix/CADlinks.html

Note JavaCAD: http://javacad.sourceforge.net is more featureful than
PythonCAD. Might be a place to get ideas / algorithms.


From glenn at chromakinetics.com  Sat May 26 22:57:20 2007
From: glenn at chromakinetics.com (Glenn Meader)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 13:57:20 -0700
Subject: [PythonCAD] Open Source software for non-programmers
In-Reply-To: <20070526162655.GB2239@artsapartment.org>
Message-ID: <20070526205734.33B051E4009@bag.python.org>

There are many examples of successful open-source software targeted at
non-programmers.

In the graphics arena, there are the well-known: Gimp, Blender, Skencil, and
Inkscape

Inkscape http://inkscape.org/  is definitely worth exploring as it is a
high-quality vector graphics end-user application similar to Illustrator,
Freehand, CorelDraw, that seriously supports scripting/extending in Python
(tutorials on using Python with it are even supplied). 

Also the documentation for developers on their Wiki is exemplary.
http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Inkscape

Extensive list of Open source Graphics related software:
http://wiki.scribus.net/index.php/List_of_FLOSS_Graphics_Applications
(on the Wiki of a powerful desktop publishing app.)


-----Original Message-----
From: pythoncad-bounces at python.org [mailto:pythoncad-bounces at python.org] On
Behalf Of Art Haas
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 9:27 AM
To: Daron Rogers
Cc: pythoncad at python.org
Subject: Re: [PythonCAD] List of desired features on Wiki... and what
aboutthem?

I've felt that projects like PythonCAD will
have a harder time drawing developers because the program is targeted to
a specific segment of computer users that typically don't code general
applications. A CAD package is probably of little interest to most
programmers as it isn't the type of software they would use on a daily
basis. It's a challenge to attract programmers to contribute to most
open-source packages, especially not the high profile programs like the
Linux kernel, GCC, KDE, GNOME, the various BSD distros, etc.




From ynd at lntenc.com  Sun May 27 09:51:23 2007
From: ynd at lntenc.com (Yagnesh Desai)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 13:21:23 +0530
Subject: [PythonCAD] Post R36 plans
Message-ID: <OFB8BA8520.95689271-ON652572E8.002B2820-652572E8.002B2824@lntenc.com>

Gr8 so many people on pythonCAD mailing list

I see a very important input here.

2 types of contributers

First are those programmer and have some interest in CAD
while others are those CAD users who have some programming
inclinations. I am in second lot I am still with Python cad
since I felt with "python" I might be able to
contribute. I am yet to find way to contribute since lot
of these programming terms are not in my vocab.
If some way is deviced to help contribution from the cad
users inclind on programming it would be great achievement.

I think since PythonCAD has come to level where the Programmers
should contribute more in direction to help non-programmers
so that efforts by programmers start "MULTIPLYING".

Regards

Yagnesh




-----pythoncad-bounces at python.org wrote: -----


To: pythoncad at python.org
From: "Art Haas" <ahaas at airmail.net>
Sent by: pythoncad-bounces at python.org
Date: 05/24/2007 10:59PM
Subject: [PythonCAD] Post R36 plans

Hi.

I made the thirty-sixth release about two weeks ago, then picked up some
contract work which kept me busy. I'd meant to mail the list sooner with
a post-release note.

It took far too long between the thirty-fifth and thirty-sixth release,
and I'd like to avoid that happening again. There were a couple of
months where I got nothing accomplished, and I had a stretch of time
doing contract work which kept me busy but not with PythonCAD. It is
clear to me that more developers are needed to keep the project moving
at a decent pace and avoid long delays between releases. This note,
then, can be considered somewhat a 'call-for-help' note as well as a
'call-for-suggestions' as to what I can do to help encourage more people
to regularly contribute to PythonCAD development.

One thing I want to do, and I've said it before, is to replace the
centralized Subversion repository with a distributed SCM. I'm 99.999%
certain it will be git, as I use git for building the Linux kernel and
retrieving code from a variety of projects. One drawback to git is there
is not a native Windows client right now. Aside from the recent work
done to store the preferences in the APPDATA directory common to other
Windows programs I hear next to nothing from Windows users and don't
regularly get patches from them so I'm guessing they get PythonCAD via
the tarball releases and not Subversion.

Switching to a distributed SCM will hopefully encourage more developers
to invest some time with PythonCAD as their local copy of the tree will
be entirely theirs to play with - commit, delete, modify, etc. The
current centralized model requires people to send me patches, wait for
me to commit them, and then push my tree out. While I feel that this
model has worked well enough at the start of the project, it is time to
change and the availability of distributed open-source SCM packages
like git make a transition possible. I'll e-mail the list more info
regarding my plans and efforts shortly.

Please feel free to add your comments about what can be done to help
bring more developers into PythonCAD.

Art
--
Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against
absurdities
the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every
wind.

-Thomas Jefferson to James Smith, 1822
_______________________________________________
PythonCAD mailing list
PythonCAD at python.orghttp://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythoncad


From info at bigbluesaw.com  Mon May 28 03:27:01 2007
From: info at bigbluesaw.com (Simon Arthur)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 21:27:01 -0400
Subject: [PythonCAD] List of desired features on Wiki... and what about
 them?
In-Reply-To: <18008.26669.577584.327637@desk.crynwr.com>
References: <mailman.21.1180173608.19190.pythoncad@python.org>	<58539.71.123.187.43.1180190774.squirrel@www.theswamp.org>	<20070526162655.GB2239@artsapartment.org>
	<18008.26669.577584.327637@desk.crynwr.com>
Message-ID: <465A2FE5.6000003@bigbluesaw.com>

PythonCAD just needs to be able to export to DXF version 12 in order to 
work with Big Blue Saw.

Right now, PythonCAD is not easy enough to use to be useful for our 
customers. This isn't going to change any time in the near future, as, 
like so many other programs, it works like AutoCAD, rather than 
implementing modern UI concepts.

There's already an open source AutoCAD workalike out there that's much 
more advanced than PythonCAD: QCad. I use it all the time.

Simon Arthur
Big Blue Saw

Russ Nelson wrote:
> Art Haas writes:
>  > I'm the only regular programmer on the project. Other people have
>  > contributed bug fixes and patches, but there hasn't been anyone who has
>  > become a regular contributor. That's the problem I'm hoping to resolve,
>  > and I'm glad to see that there's been some traffic on the mailing list
>  > discussing this.
>
> I'm one of the people who contributed a little bit to PythonCAD.  I
> used it for what I needed, and didn't have any call for it after that.
>
> I'm thinking, though, that the Big Blue Saw folks (CC'ed) might want
> to give it the ability to generate output that they could use.  They
> could then point folks to a CAD package that's easy to use and Open
> Source.
>
> I was planning to use the Big Blue Saw (http://www.bigbluesaw.com) for
> a project, but found a better method for mounting my parts.
>
>   

From gregcorradini at gmail.com  Thu May 31 15:39:19 2007
From: gregcorradini at gmail.com (Greg Corradini)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 08:39:19 -0500
Subject: [PythonCAD] Support for Bentley Microstation?
Message-ID: <429320790705310639j308fe6afu7785710b3e22e158@mail.gmail.com>

Hello All,
Unfortunately, my department uses Bentley Microstation CAD software instead
of AutoCAD. I couldn't tell from the PythonCAD homepage, but does the
PythonCAD package include support for Microstation products?

-- 
Greg Corradini
GIS Technician
Geographical Information Mapping Unit
Office of Transportation Data Analysis
Minnesota Department of Transportation
Mail Stop 350
395 John Ireland Blvd
St. Paul, MN 55155
Phone: 651-366-3847
e-mail: gregcorradini at gmail.com
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From ahaas at airmail.net  Thu May 31 16:06:21 2007
From: ahaas at airmail.net (Art Haas)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 09:06:21 -0500
Subject: [PythonCAD] Support for Bentley Microstation?
In-Reply-To: <429320790705310639j308fe6afu7785710b3e22e158@mail.gmail.com>
References: <429320790705310639j308fe6afu7785710b3e22e158@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070531140621.GA6815@artsapartment.org>

On Thu, May 31, 2007 at 08:39:19AM -0500, Greg Corradini wrote:
> Hello All,
> Unfortunately, my department uses Bentley Microstation CAD software instead
> of AutoCAD. I couldn't tell from the PythonCAD homepage, but does the
> PythonCAD package include support for Microstation products?

Hi.

Sorry, it doesn't.

Art Haas
-- 
Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities
the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind.

-Thomas Jefferson to James Smith, 1822