From a.cavallo at cavallinux.eu Tue Jan 1 11:46:21 2013 From: a.cavallo at cavallinux.eu (Antonio Cavallo) Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2013 10:46:21 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Python meetup 17th Jan 2013 London Message-ID: <50E2BE7D.7030004@cavallinux.eu> Hi All, Happy New Year! After the run-away success of the Tech Talks and Christmas Bash party, this next meetup will be a more contemplative, cosy affair in a nice pub: London, 17th Jan 2013 6.30pm Location TBD but likely to be central London More details available on: http://www.meetup.com/The-London-Python-Group-TLPG/events/97199352/ On behalf of Kris & Antonio the London pythonistas From Cheryl.Fay at asginternational.co.uk Thu Jan 3 10:48:01 2013 From: Cheryl.Fay at asginternational.co.uk (Cheryl Fay) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 09:48:01 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] New Year's London Dojo Next MONDAY In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <998890EE62943141B562199797B08D0BFB6FFFFE64@ASGSERVER.asg.local> Hi Tom, Are you still looking for a new opportunity ? Really keen in speaking with you if you are Cheryl Fay Lead Resourcing Consultant Connecting Talent ASG Telephone 0845 604 4592 | Mobile 07920 740 028|Email cheryl.fay at asginternational.co.uk Website www.asginternational.co.uk | LinkedIn http://uk.linkedin.com/in/cherylafay ASG is the trading name of Advance Recruitment UK Limited which is a company registered in England and Wales (registration number 6971194) registered office 1st Floor, The Exchange, 1 St John Street, Chester, Cheshire, CH1 1DA 2LF Disclaimer This e-mail is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ASG. The acceptance of CVs, interviewing or engagement by your organisation of a candidate introduced by ASG shall be deemed to be an acceptance of our Terms & Conditions. From: python-uk [mailto:python-uk-bounces+cheryl.fay=asginternational.co.uk at python.org] On Behalf Of Tom Viner Sent: 31 December 2012 17:14 To: UK Python Mailing List Subject: [python-uk] New Year's London Dojo Next MONDAY Greeting Christmasy Pythonistas, I hope you've had a lovely holiday and are raring to go for some group coding, dojo style. This time we're dojoing on a Monday (the 7th), rather than the usual Thursday - more convenient for Fry-It, who kindly supply their office for our nefarious purposes. 30 tickets, hot off the presses, see you in a week: http://ldnpydojo.eventwax.com/london-python-code-dojo-season-4-episode-5 Cheers, and Happy New Year! Tom @tomviner - @ldnpydojo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From harry.percival at gmail.com Thu Jan 3 11:59:58 2013 From: harry.percival at gmail.com (Harry Percival) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 10:59:58 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] New Year's London Dojo Next MONDAY In-Reply-To: <998890EE62943141B562199797B08D0BFB6FFFFE64@ASGSERVER.asg.local> References: <998890EE62943141B562199797B08D0BFB6FFFFE64@ASGSERVER.asg.local> Message-ID: WOOHOO! Let the reply-all madness begin. Happy New Year, everyone. Cheryl: embarrassing. Don't think Tom's ever going to talk to you again... On 3 January 2013 09:48, Cheryl Fay wrote: > Hi Tom, > > > > Are you still looking for a new opportunity ? > > Really keen in speaking with you if you are > > > > > > Cheryl Fay > > Lead Resourcing Consultant > > Connecting Talent > > ASG > > Telephone 0845 604 4592 | Mobile 07920 740 028|Email > cheryl.fay at asginternational.co.uk > > Website www.asginternational.co.uk | LinkedIn > http://uk.linkedin.com/in/cherylafay > > > > ASG is the trading name of Advance Recruitment UK Limited which is a company > registered in England and Wales (registration number 6971194) registered > office 1st Floor, The Exchange, 1 St John Street, Chester, Cheshire, CH1 1DA > > 2LF > > > Disclaimer > > > > This e-mail is confidential and intended solely for the use of the > individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are > solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ASG. > The acceptance of CVs, interviewing or engagement by your organisation of a > candidate introduced by ASG shall be deemed to be an acceptance of our Terms > & Conditions. > > > > From: python-uk > [mailto:python-uk-bounces+cheryl.fay=asginternational.co.uk at python.org] On > Behalf Of Tom Viner > Sent: 31 December 2012 17:14 > To: UK Python Mailing List > Subject: [python-uk] New Year's London Dojo Next MONDAY > > > > Greeting Christmasy Pythonistas, > > I hope you've had a lovely holiday and are raring to go for some group > coding, dojo style. > > This time we're dojoing on a Monday (the 7th), rather than the usual > Thursday - more convenient for Fry-It, who kindly supply their office for > our nefarious purposes. > > 30 tickets, hot off the presses, see you in a week: > http://ldnpydojo.eventwax.com/london-python-code-dojo-season-4-episode-5 > > Cheers, and Happy New Year! > Tom > @tomviner - @ldnpydojo > > > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > -- ------------------------------ Harry J.W. Percival ------------------------------ Twitter: @hjwp Mobile: +44 (0) 78877 02511 Skype: harry.percival From hansel at interpretthis.org Thu Jan 3 12:07:49 2013 From: hansel at interpretthis.org (Hansel Dunlop) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 11:07:49 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] python-uk Digest, Vol 113, Issue 2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wow. That seems like a shockingly inappropriate thing to post on a public forum. On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 11:00 AM, wrote: > Send python-uk mailing list submissions to > python-uk at python.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > python-uk-request at python.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > python-uk-owner at python.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of python-uk digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: New Year's London Dojo Next MONDAY (Cheryl Fay) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 09:48:01 +0000 > From: Cheryl Fay > To: UK Python Users > Subject: Re: [python-uk] New Year's London Dojo Next MONDAY > Message-ID: > <998890EE62943141B562199797B08D0BFB6FFFFE64 at ASGSERVER.asg.local> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi Tom, > > Are you still looking for a new opportunity ? > Really keen in speaking with you if you are > > > Cheryl Fay > Lead Resourcing Consultant > Connecting Talent > ASG > Telephone 0845 604 4592 | Mobile 07920 740 028|Email > cheryl.fay at asginternational.co.uk > > Website www.asginternational.co.uk > | LinkedIn http://uk.linkedin.com/in/cherylafay > > ASG is the trading name of Advance Recruitment UK Limited which is a > company registered in England and Wales (registration number 6971194) > registered office 1st Floor, The Exchange, 1 St John Street, Chester, > Cheshire, CH1 1DA > 2LF > > Disclaimer > > This e-mail is confidential and intended solely for the use of the > individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are > solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ASG. > The acceptance of CVs, interviewing or engagement by your organisation of > a candidate introduced by ASG shall be deemed to be an acceptance of our > Terms & Conditions. > > From: python-uk [mailto:python-uk-bounces+cheryl.fay= > asginternational.co.uk at python.org] On Behalf Of Tom Viner > Sent: 31 December 2012 17:14 > To: UK Python Mailing List > Subject: [python-uk] New Year's London Dojo Next MONDAY > > > Greeting Christmasy Pythonistas, > > I hope you've had a lovely holiday and are raring to go for some group > coding, dojo style. > > This time we're dojoing on a Monday (the 7th), rather than the usual > Thursday - more convenient for Fry-It, who kindly supply their office for > our nefarious purposes. > > 30 tickets, hot off the presses, see you in a week: > http://ldnpydojo.eventwax.com/london-python-code-dojo-season-4-episode-5 > > Cheers, and Happy New Year! > Tom > @tomviner - @ldnpydojo > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-uk/attachments/20130103/bb2cd533/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > > > ------------------------------ > > End of python-uk Digest, Vol 113, Issue 2 > ***************************************** > -- Hansel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Cheryl.Fay at asginternational.co.uk Thu Jan 3 12:28:54 2013 From: Cheryl.Fay at asginternational.co.uk (Cheryl Fay) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 11:28:54 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Recall: New Year's London Dojo Next MONDAY Message-ID: <998890EE62943141B562199797B08D0BFB6FFFFEA0@ASGSERVER.asg.local> Cheryl Fay would like to recall the message, "[python-uk] New Year's London Dojo Next MONDAY". From Cheryl.Fay at asginternational.co.uk Thu Jan 3 12:32:18 2013 From: Cheryl.Fay at asginternational.co.uk (Cheryl Fay) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 11:32:18 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Recall: New Year's London Dojo Next MONDAY Message-ID: <998890EE62943141B562199797B08D0BFB6FFFFEA4@ASGSERVER.asg.local> Cheryl Fay would like to recall the message, "[python-uk] New Year's London Dojo Next MONDAY". From andy at reportlab.com Thu Jan 3 12:40:51 2013 From: andy at reportlab.com (Andy Robinson) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 11:40:51 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to Message-ID: As a list admin I supposed I ought to ask this again. Currently the emails are set to 'reply to the list' by default. It used to be 'reply to sender' but too many people found they were doing just that and cutting off conversations, so a few years ago there was a general vote to change it. In the light of this morning's, er, entertainment, are the Python developers on this list (well, all but one of them...) happy with the way it currently works? Best Regards, -- Andy Robinson Managing Director ReportLab Europe Ltd. (I think I am still a list admin...) From agonzalezro at gmail.com Thu Jan 3 12:49:35 2013 From: agonzalezro at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?w4FsZXggR29uesOhbGV6?=) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 11:49:35 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I will find really annoying that a default behaviour reply-to-sender in a public list. My 2 cents :) Happy New Year and see you on the Dojo! On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Andy Robinson wrote: > As a list admin I supposed I ought to ask this again. > > Currently the emails are set to 'reply to the list' by default. It > used to be 'reply to sender' but too many people found they were doing > just that and cutting off conversations, so a few years ago there was > a general vote to change it. > > In the light of this morning's, er, entertainment, are the Python > developers on this list (well, all but one of them...) happy with the > way it currently works? > > Best Regards, > > -- > Andy Robinson > Managing Director > ReportLab Europe Ltd. > > (I think I am still a list admin...) > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > -- @agonzalezro or my blog Please, don't send me files with extensions: .doc, .docx, .xls, .xlsx, .ppt and/or .pptx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From me at benfields.net Thu Jan 3 12:52:30 2013 From: me at benfields.net (Ben Fields) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2013 11:52:30 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50E570FE.7040809@benfields.net> As a long time lurker, I'm happy with the way it works currently (ie. reply-to-list by default). I think it's useful to have to default conversation be to the community as a whole, even if that sometimes comes with the added benefit of a demonstration of some users email skill level. Plus people can always take conversations off-list as they feel is needed. Cheers Ben On 03/01/13 11:49, ?lex Gonz?lez wrote: > I will find really annoying that a default behaviour reply-to-sender > in a public list. > > My 2 cents :) > > Happy New Year and see you on the Dojo! > > > On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Andy Robinson > wrote: > > As a list admin I supposed I ought to ask this again. > > Currently the emails are set to 'reply to the list' by default. It > used to be 'reply to sender' but too many people found they were doing > just that and cutting off conversations, so a few years ago there was > a general vote to change it. > > In the light of this morning's, er, entertainment, are the Python > developers on this list (well, all but one of them...) happy with the > way it currently works? > > Best Regards, > > -- > Andy Robinson > Managing Director > ReportLab Europe Ltd. > > (I think I am still a list admin...) > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > > > > > -- > @agonzalezro or my blog > > Please, don't send me files with extensions: .doc, .docx, .xls, .xlsx, > .ppt and/or .pptx > > > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk -- -- Benjamin Fields **Please note that my email address b.fields at gold.ac.uk no longer reaches me. Please update your address books accordingly.** Data Analysis Engineer, Musicmetric Visiting Post-doctoral Researcher, Goldsmiths University of London e : me at benfields.net m : +44 (0)796 106 1568 t : @alsothings w : http://benfields.net "Which is more musical: a truck passing by a factory or a truck passing by a music school?" --John Cage -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wprins at gmail.com Thu Jan 3 12:57:01 2013 From: wprins at gmail.com (Walter Prins) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 11:57:01 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 3 January 2013 11:49, ?lex Gonz?lez wrote: > I will find really annoying that a default behaviour reply-to-sender in a > public list. Agree with ?lex FWIW. Slightly unfortunate though this mornings entertainment has been, I don't think it's that big of a deal. I find it somewhat infuriating to deal with other lists where the default is the opposite, where you have to continuously remember to fiddle around with the reply settings if you want to do what is for me the most common operation with a list (e.g. reply to the list members), so my vote is to keep it as-is. Walter -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jml at mumak.net Thu Jan 3 12:57:44 2013 From: jml at mumak.net (Jonathan Lange) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 11:57:44 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Andy Robinson wrote: > As a list admin I supposed I ought to ask this again. > > Currently the emails are set to 'reply to the list' by default. It > used to be 'reply to sender' but too many people found they were doing > just that and cutting off conversations, so a few years ago there was > a general vote to change it. http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html makes a compelling case for choosing 'reply to sender' over 'reply to the list'. jml From daniele at vurt.org Thu Jan 3 12:46:00 2013 From: daniele at vurt.org (Daniele Procida) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 11:46:00 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130103114600.693383920@smtpauth.cf.ac.uk> On Thu, Jan 3, 2013, Andy Robinson wrote: >Currently the emails are set to 'reply to the list' by default. It >used to be 'reply to sender' but too many people found they were doing >just that and cutting off conversations, so a few years ago there was >a general vote to change it. > >In the light of this morning's, er, entertainment, are the Python >developers on this list (well, all but one of them...) happy with the >way it currently works? Yes. Daniele From harry.percival at gmail.com Thu Jan 3 13:20:22 2013 From: harry.percival at gmail.com (Harry Percival) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 12:20:22 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Recall: New Year's London Dojo Next MONDAY In-Reply-To: <998890EE62943141B562199797B08D0BFB6FFFFEA0@ASGSERVER.asg.local> References: <998890EE62943141B562199797B08D0BFB6FFFFEA0@ASGSERVER.asg.local> Message-ID: I think if you hit "recall message" a third time, it might work... On 3 January 2013 11:28, Cheryl Fay wrote: > Cheryl Fay would like to recall the message, "[python-uk] New Year's London Dojo Next MONDAY". > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk -- ------------------------------ Harry J.W. Percival ------------------------------ Twitter: @hjwp Mobile: +44 (0) 78877 02511 Skype: harry.percival From fuzzyman at voidspace.org.uk Thu Jan 3 13:21:43 2013 From: fuzzyman at voidspace.org.uk (Michael Foord) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 12:21:43 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 3 Jan 2013, at 11:40, Andy Robinson wrote: > As a list admin I supposed I ought to ask this again. > > Currently the emails are set to 'reply to the list' by default. It > used to be 'reply to sender' but too many people found they were doing > just that and cutting off conversations, so a few years ago there was > a general vote to change it. > > In the light of this morning's, er, entertainment, are the Python > developers on this list (well, all but one of them...) happy with the > way it currently works? > I find "reply-to-list" as the default *much* more user friendly. Pedants be damned. Michael > Best Regards, > > -- > Andy Robinson > Managing Director > ReportLab Europe Ltd. > > (I think I am still a list admin...) > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > -- http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ May you do good and not evil May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others May you share freely, never taking more than you give. -- the sqlite blessing http://www.sqlite.org/different.html From andy at reportlab.com Thu Jan 3 13:26:21 2013 From: andy at reportlab.com (Andy Robinson) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 12:26:21 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 3 January 2013 11:57, Jonathan Lange wrote: > > http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html makes a compelling case > for choosing 'reply to sender' over 'reply to the list'. > Yes, I think the mailman user interface points to this article as well and recommends the default of 'reply to sender'. But we had this discussion a few years ago and a clear majority of people asked for it to be kept the current way. It still seems this way. - Andy From a.cavallo at cavallinux.eu Thu Jan 3 13:31:54 2013 From: a.cavallo at cavallinux.eu (Antonio Cavallo) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2013 12:31:54 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50E57A3A.9000505@cavallinux.eu> For the added "entertainment" value alone I'll leave as it is! But on the other end emails like these could lead to people losing their job or worst, and only for a momentary lapse of reason (or butter fingers). So all in weighted, I'm in for changing the reply-to field to the originator's email before someone starts to send some "spicy" emails by mistake. Thanks, Antonio Jonathan Lange wrote: > On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Andy Robinson wrote: >> As a list admin I supposed I ought to ask this again. >> >> Currently the emails are set to 'reply to the list' by default. It >> used to be 'reply to sender' but too many people found they were doing >> just that and cutting off conversations, so a few years ago there was >> a general vote to change it. > > http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html makes a compelling case > for choosing 'reply to sender' over 'reply to the list'. > > jml > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk From harry.percival at gmail.com Thu Jan 3 13:43:32 2013 From: harry.percival at gmail.com (Harry Percival) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 12:43:32 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] New Year's London Dojo Next MONDAY In-Reply-To: References: <998890EE62943141B562199797B08D0BFB6FFFFE64@ASGSERVER.asg.local> Message-ID: Yeah yeah yeah. Nice attempt at a cover-up Tom. Are any of Tom's colleagues or managers on here? Looks like someone is shopping around! Better give Tom a raise... On 3 January 2013 12:41, Tom Viner wrote: > Thanks for the heads up Harry, I'd already archived the email not noticing > it came via the list serve. > > Luckily I do find it all hilarious, especially: > > '''Cheryl Fay would like to recall the message, "[python-uk] New Year's > London Dojo Next MONDAY".''' > > Just to confirm, in terms of grammar, you can't *still* be looking for work, > if you weren't in the first place, similarly nor can you refuse to talk to > someone *again*. > > Anyway, on balance I think the reply to list default makes sense as it is. > Mistaken reply to list doesn't seem common and today can serve as a reminder > to all list subscribers to check twice who they're emailing before clicking > send. > > Look forward to seeing everyone on Monday: There are still 4 tickets left, > book your place now! Cheryl? :-p -- ------------------------------ Harry J.W. Percival ------------------------------ Twitter: @hjwp Mobile: +44 (0) 78877 02511 Skype: harry.percival From tom at viner.tv Thu Jan 3 13:40:54 2013 From: tom at viner.tv (Tom Viner) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 12:40:54 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] New Year's London Dojo Next MONDAY In-Reply-To: References: <998890EE62943141B562199797B08D0BFB6FFFFE64@ASGSERVER.asg.local> Message-ID: Thanks for the heads up Harry, I'd already archived the email not noticing it came via the list serve. Luckily I do find it all hilarious, especially: '''Cheryl Fay would like to recall the message, "[python-uk] New Year's London Dojo Next MONDAY".''' Just to confirm, in terms of grammar, you can't *still* be looking for work, if you weren't in the first place, similarly nor can you refuse to talk to someone *again*. Anyway, on balance I think the reply to list default makes sense as it is. Mistaken reply to list doesn't seem common and today can serve as a reminder to all list subscribers to check twice who they're emailing before clicking send. Look forward to seeing everyone on Monday: There are still 4 tickets left, book your place now! Cheryl? :-p -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tom at viner.tv Thu Jan 3 13:41:14 2013 From: tom at viner.tv (Tom Viner) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 12:41:14 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] New Year's London Dojo Next MONDAY In-Reply-To: References: <998890EE62943141B562199797B08D0BFB6FFFFE64@ASGSERVER.asg.local> Message-ID: Thanks for the heads up Harry, I'd already archived the email not noticing it came via the list serve. Luckily I do find it all hilarious, especially: '''Cheryl Fay would like to recall the message, "[python-uk] New Year's London Dojo Next MONDAY".''' Just to confirm, in terms of grammar, you can't *still* be looking for work, if you weren't in the first place, similarly nor can you refuse to talk to someone *again*. Anyway, on balance I think the reply to list default makes sense as it is. Mistaken reply to list doesn't seem common and today can serve as a reminder to all list subscribers to check twice who they're emailing before clicking send. Look forward to seeing everyone on Monday: There are still 4 tickets left, book your place now! Cheryl? :-p -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alex at moreati.org.uk Thu Jan 3 14:06:02 2013 From: alex at moreati.org.uk (Alex Willmer) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 13:06:02 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 3 January 2013 11:40, Andy Robinson wrote: > In the light of this morning's, er, entertainment, are the Python > developers on this list (well, all but one of them...) happy with the > way it currently works? +1 reply-to-list The convenience of the many outweighs the fat-fingers of the few. Thanks, Alex -- Alex Willmer http://twitter.com/moreati From tom at viner.tv Thu Jan 3 14:26:30 2013 From: tom at viner.tv (Tom Viner) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 13:26:30 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] New Year's London Dojo Next MONDAY In-Reply-To: References: <998890EE62943141B562199797B08D0BFB6FFFFE64@ASGSERVER.asg.local> Message-ID: Nice doing business with you Harry ;-) On 3 January 2013 12:43, Harry Percival wrote: > Yeah yeah yeah. Nice attempt at a cover-up Tom. Are any of Tom's > colleagues or managers on here? Looks like someone is shopping > around! Better give Tom a raise... > > On 3 January 2013 12:41, Tom Viner wrote: > > Thanks for the heads up Harry, I'd already archived the email not > noticing > > it came via the list serve. > > > > Luckily I do find it all hilarious, especially: > > > > '''Cheryl Fay would like to recall the message, "[python-uk] New Year's > > London Dojo Next MONDAY".''' > > > > Just to confirm, in terms of grammar, you can't *still* be looking for > work, > > if you weren't in the first place, similarly nor can you refuse to talk > to > > someone *again*. > > > > Anyway, on balance I think the reply to list default makes sense as it > is. > > Mistaken reply to list doesn't seem common and today can serve as a > reminder > > to all list subscribers to check twice who they're emailing before > clicking > > send. > > > > Look forward to seeing everyone on Monday: There are still 4 tickets > left, > > book your place now! Cheryl? :-p > > > > -- > ------------------------------ > Harry J.W. Percival > ------------------------------ > Twitter: @hjwp > Mobile: +44 (0) 78877 02511 > Skype: harry.percival > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gadgetsteve at hotmail.com Thu Jan 3 15:13:47 2013 From: gadgetsteve at hotmail.com (Steve Barnes) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 14:13:47 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 03/01/13 11:40, Andy Robinson wrote: > As a list admin I supposed I ought to ask this again. > > Currently the emails are set to 'reply to the list' by default. It > used to be 'reply to sender' but too many people found they were doing > just that and cutting off conversations, so a few years ago there was > a general vote to change it. > > In the light of this morning's, er, entertainment, are the Python > developers on this list (well, all but one of them...) happy with the > way it currently works? > > Best Regards, > Yes, (even though with Thunderbird I have separate reply and reply to list buttons). -- Steve /Gadget/ Barnes -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jon+python-uk at unequivocal.co.uk Thu Jan 3 16:13:32 2013 From: jon+python-uk at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 15:13:32 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130103151332.GH1864@snowy.squish.net> On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 11:40:51AM +0000, Andy Robinson wrote: > In the light of this morning's, er, entertainment, are the Python > developers on this list (well, all but one of them...) happy with the > way it currently works? No. Reply-to-list is almost never correct. There is even less excuse than usual (which would be almost none) on a "technical" list. From daniele at vurt.org Thu Jan 3 16:21:00 2013 From: daniele at vurt.org (Daniele Procida) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 15:21:00 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: <20130103151332.GH1864@snowy.squish.net> References: <20130103151332.GH1864@snowy.squish.net> Message-ID: <20130103152100.816579021@smtpauth.cf.ac.uk> On Thu, Jan 3, 2013, Jon Ribbens wrote: >On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 11:40:51AM +0000, Andy Robinson wrote: >> In the light of this morning's, er, entertainment, are the Python >> developers on this list (well, all but one of them...) happy with the >> way it currently works? > >No. Reply-to-list is almost never correct. There is even less excuse >than usual (which would be almost none) on a "technical" list. You have to admit it's more entertaining. Daniele From stestagg at gmail.com Thu Jan 3 16:47:31 2013 From: stestagg at gmail.com (Stestagg) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 15:47:31 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: <20130103152100.816579021@smtpauth.cf.ac.uk> References: <20130103151332.GH1864@snowy.squish.net> <20130103152100.816579021@smtpauth.cf.ac.uk> Message-ID: I'm for keeping it, reply-to-list is easier for me, and definitely more entertaining, at times Steve On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Daniele Procida wrote: > On Thu, Jan 3, 2013, Jon Ribbens wrote: > > >On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 11:40:51AM +0000, Andy Robinson wrote: > >> In the light of this morning's, er, entertainment, are the Python > >> developers on this list (well, all but one of them...) happy with the > >> way it currently works? > > > >No. Reply-to-list is almost never correct. There is even less excuse > >than usual (which would be almost none) on a "technical" list. > > You have to admit it's more entertaining. > > Daniele > > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From xtian at babbageclunk.com Thu Jan 3 16:51:36 2013 From: xtian at babbageclunk.com (xtian) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 15:51:36 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: <20130103151332.GH1864@snowy.squish.net> References: <20130103151332.GH1864@snowy.squish.net> Message-ID: On 3 Jan 2013 15:19, "Jon Ribbens" wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 11:40:51AM +0000, Andy Robinson wrote: > > In the light of this morning's, er, entertainment, are the Python > > developers on this list (well, all but one of them...) happy with the > > way it currently works? > > No. Reply-to-list is almost never correct. There is even less excuse > than usual (which would be almost none) on a "technical" list. I agree - I had been chortling at the hapless recruiter for hitting reply-all when she meant reply. I didn't realise that she'd actually hit reply, in the pretty reasonable expectation that it would do the same thing it does in (almost) every other circumstance. While I hope I'd be alert enough to spot the error before sending if I'd done the same, anyone I've worked with would agree that it's a 50/50 chance at best, depending on day and mania-level. > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From m at meitham.com Thu Jan 3 16:57:22 2013 From: m at meitham.com (meitham) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 15:57:22 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: References: <20130103151332.GH1864@snowy.squish.net> Message-ID: > No. Reply-to-list is almost never correct. There is even less excuse > than usual (which would be almost none) on a "technical" list. +1 I can't get the new gmail web interface to reply to individual instead of replying to list, not without composing a new email from scratch. M From jon+python-uk at unequivocal.co.uk Thu Jan 3 17:14:26 2013 From: jon+python-uk at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 16:14:26 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: <20130103152100.816579021@smtpauth.cf.ac.uk> References: <20130103151332.GH1864@snowy.squish.net> <20130103152100.816579021@smtpauth.cf.ac.uk> Message-ID: <20130103161426.GI1864@snowy.squish.net> On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 03:21:00PM +0000, Daniele Procida wrote: > On Thu, Jan 3, 2013, Jon Ribbens wrote: > >On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 11:40:51AM +0000, Andy Robinson wrote: > >> In the light of this morning's, er, entertainment, are the Python > >> developers on this list (well, all but one of them...) happy with the > >> way it currently works? > > > >No. Reply-to-list is almost never correct. There is even less excuse > >than usual (which would be almost none) on a "technical" list. > > You have to admit it's more entertaining. I'm sure there's better ways to find amusement on the Internet related to people being tripped up by badly-designed technology. From jon+python-uk at unequivocal.co.uk Thu Jan 3 17:15:54 2013 From: jon+python-uk at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 16:15:54 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: References: <20130103151332.GH1864@snowy.squish.net> <20130103152100.816579021@smtpauth.cf.ac.uk> Message-ID: <20130103161554.GJ1864@snowy.squish.net> On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 03:47:31PM +0000, Stestagg wrote: > I'm for keeping it, reply-to-list is easier for me, How can it be easier? Does your mail software really not have 'reply to list' or 'reply to all' buttons? From dave at dave.gs Thu Jan 3 17:19:48 2013 From: dave at dave.gs (David Walker) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 16:19:48 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: References: <20130103151332.GH1864@snowy.squish.net> Message-ID: +1 You could click the "UK Python Users" address to delete that, then copy and paste the email address from the original email. Reply should do what it always does, which is reply to the person who sent the email. On 3 January 2013 15:57, meitham wrote: > > No. Reply-to-list is almost never correct. There is even less excuse > > than usual (which would be almost none) on a "technical" list. > +1 > I can't get the new gmail web interface to reply to individual instead > of replying to list, not without composing a new email from scratch. > > M > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daniele at vurt.org Thu Jan 3 17:25:00 2013 From: daniele at vurt.org (Daniele Procida) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 16:25:00 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: References: <20130103151332.GH1864@snowy.squish.net> Message-ID: <20130103162500.1899384504@smtp.ntlworld.com> On Thu, Jan 3, 2013, David Walker wrote: >You could click the "UK Python Users" address to delete that, then copy and >paste the email address from the original email. >Reply should do what it always does, which is reply to the person who sent >the email. No, this is a list for discussing things, like this, not just for announcements (in which case it would be appropriate for replies to go to back to the sender). How can it "help UK Python users to form a community, arrange events, advertise help or jobs wanted or sought and generally chat" if by default discussions are just between individuals? Daniele From Oliver.Hilton at uktv.co.uk Thu Jan 3 17:25:08 2013 From: Oliver.Hilton at uktv.co.uk (Oliver Hilton) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 16:25:08 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: References: <20130103151332.GH1864@snowy.squish.net> Message-ID: <7EABF62F4EF96745A40BD5893D93D2BE06EBDA@BGB01XUD1005.national.core.bbc.co.uk> Before this descends into an eternal and excruciatingly dull back and forth on the merits of different email clients, operating systems, deities etc.. all of which boil down to personal preference (yes despite the fact your own personal opinion is clearly the only valid one) can we just run a web vote somewhere if required and stick to that. Ta! Oli (who is not really bothered either way) From: python-uk [mailto:python-uk-bounces+oliver.hilton=uktv.co.uk at python.org] On Behalf Of David Walker Sent: 03 January 2013 16:20 To: UK Python Users Subject: Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to +1 You could click the "UK Python Users" address to delete that, then copy and paste the email address from the original email. Reply should do what it always does, which is reply to the person who sent the email. On 3 January 2013 15:57, meitham > wrote: > No. Reply-to-list is almost never correct. There is even less excuse > than usual (which would be almost none) on a "technical" list. +1 I can't get the new gmail web interface to reply to individual instead of replying to list, not without composing a new email from scratch. M _______________________________________________ python-uk mailing list python-uk at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk ---------------------------- http://www.uktv.co.uk This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of UKTV unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that UKTV monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. UK Channel Management Limited (registered in England and Wales with number 03322468), UKTV Interactive Limited (registered in England and Wales with number 03950210), UK Gold Services Limited (registered in England and Wales with number 02702737), UKTV New Ventures Limited (registered in England and Wales with number 04266373). Registered office of the above companies at: 245 Hammersmith Road, London, W6 8PW--------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jon+python-uk at unequivocal.co.uk Thu Jan 3 17:41:41 2013 From: jon+python-uk at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 16:41:41 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: <20130103162500.1899384504@smtp.ntlworld.com> References: <20130103151332.GH1864@snowy.squish.net> <20130103162500.1899384504@smtp.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <20130103164141.GK1864@snowy.squish.net> On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 04:25:00PM +0000, Daniele Procida wrote: > On Thu, Jan 3, 2013, David Walker wrote: > >You could click the "UK Python Users" address to delete that, then copy and > >paste the email address from the original email. > >Reply should do what it always does, which is reply to the person who sent > >the email. > > No, this is a list for discussing things, like this, not just for > announcements (in which case it would be appropriate for replies to > go to back to the sender). > > How can it "help UK Python users to form a community, arrange > events, advertise help or jobs wanted or sought and generally chat" > if by default discussions are just between individuals? Who said anything about "by default"? From a.cavallo at cavallinux.eu Thu Jan 3 17:41:27 2013 From: a.cavallo at cavallinux.eu (Antonio Cavallo) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2013 16:41:27 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: <7EABF62F4EF96745A40BD5893D93D2BE06EBDA@BGB01XUD1005.national.core.bbc.co.uk> References: <20130103151332.GH1864@snowy.squish.net> <7EABF62F4EF96745A40BD5893D93D2BE06EBDA@BGB01XUD1005.national.core.bbc.co.uk> Message-ID: <50E5B4B7.3040604@cavallinux.eu> like this? http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=50e5b456e4b04de5024affff :D Oliver Hilton wrote: > Before this descends into an eternal and excruciatingly dull back and > forth on the merits of different email clients, operating systems, > deities etc.. all of which boil down to personal preference (yes despite > the fact your own personal opinion is clearly the only valid one) can we > just run a web vote somewhere if required and stick to that. Ta! > > Oli (who is not really bothered either way) > > *From:*python-uk > [mailto:python-uk-bounces+oliver.hilton=uktv.co.uk at python.org] *On > Behalf Of *David Walker > *Sent:* 03 January 2013 16:20 > *To:* UK Python Users > *Subject:* Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to > > +1 > > You could click the "UK Python Users" address to delete that, then copy > and paste the email address from the original email. > > Reply should do what it always does, which is reply to the person who > sent the email. > > On 3 January 2013 15:57, meitham > > wrote: > > > No. Reply-to-list is almost never correct. There is even less excuse > > than usual (which would be almost none) on a "technical" list. > > +1 > I can't get the new gmail web interface to reply to individual instead > of replying to list, not without composing a new email from scratch. > > > M > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > > ---------------------------- > > http://www.uktv.co.uk > This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain > personal views which are not the views of UKTV unless specifically stated. > If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. > Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in > reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. > Please note that UKTV monitors e-mails sent or received. > Further communication will signify your consent to this. > > UK Channel Management Limited (registered in England and Wales with > number 03322468), UKTV Interactive Limited (registered in England and > Wales with number 03950210), UK Gold Services Limited (registered in > England and Wales with number 02702737), UKTV New Ventures Limited > (registered in England and Wales with number 04266373). > Registered office of the above companies at: 245 Hammersmith Road, > London, W6 8PW--------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk From jon+python-uk at unequivocal.co.uk Thu Jan 3 18:07:01 2013 From: jon+python-uk at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 17:07:01 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: <50E5B4B7.3040604@cavallinux.eu> References: <20130103151332.GH1864@snowy.squish.net> <7EABF62F4EF96745A40BD5893D93D2BE06EBDA@BGB01XUD1005.national.core.bbc.co.uk> <50E5B4B7.3040604@cavallinux.eu> Message-ID: <20130103170701.GL1864@snowy.squish.net> On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 04:41:27PM +0000, Antonio Cavallo wrote: > like this? > > http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=50e5b456e4b04de5024affff I don't want either of those options, I want the proper, standard list behaviour, which is "Reply-To unchanged from the sender's email". From a.cavallo at cavallinux.eu Thu Jan 3 18:08:56 2013 From: a.cavallo at cavallinux.eu (Antonio Cavallo) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2013 17:08:56 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: <20130103170701.GL1864@snowy.squish.net> References: <20130103151332.GH1864@snowy.squish.net> <7EABF62F4EF96745A40BD5893D93D2BE06EBDA@BGB01XUD1005.national.core.bbc.co.uk> <50E5B4B7.3040604@cavallinux.eu> <20130103170701.GL1864@snowy.squish.net> Message-ID: <50E5BB28.5030903@cavallinux.eu> done it for you :) Jon Ribbens wrote: > "Reply-To unchanged from the sender's email From andy at reportlab.com Thu Jan 3 18:13:45 2013 From: andy at reportlab.com (Andy Robinson) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 17:13:45 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: <20130103170701.GL1864@snowy.squish.net> References: <20130103151332.GH1864@snowy.squish.net> <7EABF62F4EF96745A40BD5893D93D2BE06EBDA@BGB01XUD1005.national.core.bbc.co.uk> <50E5B4B7.3040604@cavallinux.eu> <20130103170701.GL1864@snowy.squish.net> Message-ID: On 3 January 2013 17:07, Jon Ribbens wrote: > On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 04:41:27PM +0000, Antonio Cavallo wrote: >> like this? >> >> http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=50e5b456e4b04de5024affff > > I don't want either of those options, I want the proper, standard > list behaviour, which is "Reply-To unchanged from the sender's email". > _______________________________________________ For your info here are the relevant options from the mailman screen Reply-To: header munging -------------------------------------- Should any existing Reply-To: header found in the original message be stripped? If so, this will be done regardless of whether an explict Reply-To: header is added by Mailman or not. Options: Yes or No (currently 'No') Where are replies to list messages directed? Poster is strongly recommended for most mailing lists. Options: Poster | This list | Explicit address (currently "This list") Explicit Reply-To: header. [box to fill in if used, currently empty] -- - Andy From fuzzyman at voidspace.org.uk Thu Jan 3 18:13:57 2013 From: fuzzyman at voidspace.org.uk (Michael Foord) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 17:13:57 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: <20130103170701.GL1864@snowy.squish.net> References: <20130103151332.GH1864@snowy.squish.net> <7EABF62F4EF96745A40BD5893D93D2BE06EBDA@BGB01XUD1005.national.core.bbc.co.uk> <50E5B4B7.3040604@cavallinux.eu> <20130103170701.GL1864@snowy.squish.net> Message-ID: On 3 Jan 2013, at 17:07, Jon Ribbens wrote: > On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 04:41:27PM +0000, Antonio Cavallo wrote: >> like this? >> >> http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=50e5b456e4b04de5024affff > > I don't want either of those options, I want the proper, standard > list behaviour, which is "Reply-To unchanged from the sender's email". However sincerely (and obstinately) you believe in the correctness of your desires, the mailing list exists to serve its users - not any notion of correctness. The majority of the subscribers who have expressed an opinion, either in this thread or the poll, prefer reply-to-list. FWIW on lists where reply-to goes to the individual I *very* regularly see messages accidentally sent only to the original sender and not to the list. This is regularly a (mild) impediment to communication. I very rarely see the opposite (public replies that were meant to be private). So the cure is largely worse than the disease. Michael > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > -- http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ May you do good and not evil May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others May you share freely, never taking more than you give. -- the sqlite blessing http://www.sqlite.org/different.html From ed.hartley at gmail.com Thu Jan 3 18:20:06 2013 From: ed.hartley at gmail.com (E Hartley) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 17:20:06 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: References: <20130103151332.GH1864@snowy.squish.net> <7EABF62F4EF96745A40BD5893D93D2BE06EBDA@BGB01XUD1005.national.core.bbc.co.uk> <50E5B4B7.3040604@cavallinux.eu> <20130103170701.GL1864@snowy.squish.net> Message-ID: <9193E6F4-5849-48F4-9670-C84FDF4013D9@gmail.com> On 3 Jan 2013, at 17:13, Michael Foord wrote: > > On 3 Jan 2013, at 17:07, Jon Ribbens wrote: > >> On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 04:41:27PM +0000, Antonio Cavallo wrote: >>> like this? >>> >>> http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=50e5b456e4b04de5024affff >> >> I don't want either of those options, I want the proper, standard >> list behaviour, which is "Reply-To unchanged from the sender's email". > > However sincerely (and obstinately) you believe in the correctness of your desires, the mailing list exists to serve its users - not any notion of correctness. The majority of the subscribers who have expressed an opinion, either in this thread or the poll, prefer reply-to-list. > > FWIW on lists where reply-to goes to the individual I *very* regularly see messages accidentally sent only to the original sender and not to the list. This is regularly a (mild) impediment to communication. I very rarely see the opposite (public replies that were meant to be private). So the cure is largely worse than the disease. > For a moment there I thought I was in 1993 not 2013 :) Ed > Michael > >> _______________________________________________ >> python-uk mailing list >> python-uk at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk >> > > > -- > http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ > > > May you do good and not evil > May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others > May you share freely, never taking more than you give. > -- the sqlite blessing > http://www.sqlite.org/different.html > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From renesd at gmail.com Thu Jan 3 18:17:52 2013 From: renesd at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Dudfield?=) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 18:17:52 +0100 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: References: <20130103151332.GH1864@snowy.squish.net> <7EABF62F4EF96745A40BD5893D93D2BE06EBDA@BGB01XUD1005.national.core.bbc.co.uk> <50E5B4B7.3040604@cavallinux.eu> <20130103170701.GL1864@snowy.squish.net> Message-ID: >>> my['2p'] == 'reply-to-list' True -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jon+python-uk at unequivocal.co.uk Thu Jan 3 18:29:43 2013 From: jon+python-uk at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 17:29:43 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: References: <20130103151332.GH1864@snowy.squish.net> <7EABF62F4EF96745A40BD5893D93D2BE06EBDA@BGB01XUD1005.national.core.bbc.co.uk> <50E5B4B7.3040604@cavallinux.eu> <20130103170701.GL1864@snowy.squish.net> Message-ID: <20130103172943.GM1864@snowy.squish.net> On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 05:13:57PM +0000, Michael Foord wrote: > On 3 Jan 2013, at 17:07, Jon Ribbens wrote: > > I don't want either of those options, I want the proper, standard > > list behaviour, which is "Reply-To unchanged from the sender's email". > > However sincerely (and obstinately) you believe in the correctness > of your desires, the mailing list exists to serve its users - not > any notion of correctness. The majority of the subscribers who have > expressed an opinion, either in this thread or the poll, prefer > reply-to-list. > > FWIW on lists where reply-to goes to the individual I *very* > regularly see messages accidentally sent only to the original sender > and not to the list. This is regularly a (mild) impediment to > communication. I very rarely see the opposite (public replies that > were meant to be private). So the cure is largely worse than the > disease. You are wrong. HTH. From matth at netsight.co.uk Thu Jan 3 18:21:31 2013 From: matth at netsight.co.uk (Matt Hamilton) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 17:21:31 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: <20130103162500.1899384504@smtp.ntlworld.com> References: <20130103151332.GH1864@snowy.squish.net> <20130103162500.1899384504@smtp.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <2581C4F8-52EF-4A08-A165-4D54FD47F895@netsight.co.uk> On 3 Jan 2013, at 16:25, Daniele Procida wrote: > On Thu, Jan 3, 2013, David Walker wrote: > >> You could click the "UK Python Users" address to delete that, then copy and >> paste the email address from the original email. >> Reply should do what it always does, which is reply to the person who sent >> the email. > > No, this is a list for discussing things, like this, not just for announcements (in which case it would be appropriate for replies to go to back to the sender). +1 > How can it "help UK Python users to form a community, arrange events, advertise help or jobs wanted or sought and generally chat" if by default discussions are just between individuals? Indeed, *you* (Daniele) did not send *me* this email. You sent it to the list. My replies should by default go back to the list. If you wanted to contact me personally you would have emailed me personally. If I wanted to reply privately then I would have explicitly done so. -Matt -- Matt Hamilton, Technical Director Netsight Internet Solutions Limited http://www.netsight.co.uk/matth Tel: 0117 90 90 90 1 Ext. 15 Registered in England No. 3892180 Registered office: 40 Berkeley Square, Clifton, Bristol, BS8 1HU From xtian at babbageclunk.com Thu Jan 3 19:35:54 2013 From: xtian at babbageclunk.com (xtian) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 18:35:54 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: References: <20130103151332.GH1864@snowy.squish.net> Message-ID: Amusingly, you've replied to the wrong person - meitham was the one complaining about the gmail interface. I hope you don't mind me cc-ing the list, because it kind of illustrates my point. ;) I sent my initial message from a client that had both reply and reply-all buttons side-by-side, so when beginning my reply I made a decision about where it should go. Except the reply-to settings on the list meant that both buttons actually do the same thing. That seems unnecessarily confusing - nothing to do with correctness. Similarly, due to those settings, when Walter wanted to send a private (even though perfectly polite) message to meitham, he accidentally sent it to me instead. Anyway, like Oli said, this isn't the kind of thing where people are likely to change their minds. And it's really not a big deal either way. I guess I just won't laugh so hard at the next recruiter who does it. And maybe that's a worthwhile lesson right there. Aren't we all people? Don't we all love, and die, and eat, and poop? I love you guys. xtian On 3 January 2013 16:58, Walter Prins wrote: > Just use the little drop down next to the arrow left top of the mail, > select "Replay all, " (second menu option) then click the on > the list address to remove it if desired. > > (Sent from gmail via this method.) > > Cheers, > > Walter > > On 3 January 2013 15:57, meitham wrote: > >> > No. Reply-to-list is almost never correct. There is even less excuse >> > than usual (which would be almost none) on a "technical" list. >> +1 >> I can't get the new gmail web interface to reply to individual instead >> of replying to list, not without composing a new email from scratch. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparks.m at gmail.com Thu Jan 3 20:39:17 2013 From: sparks.m at gmail.com (Michael) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 19:39:17 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: References: <20130103151332.GH1864@snowy.squish.net> <7EABF62F4EF96745A40BD5893D93D2BE06EBDA@BGB01XUD1005.national.core.bbc.co.uk> <50E5B4B7.3040604@cavallinux.eu> <20130103170701.GL1864@snowy.squish.net> Message-ID: On 3 January 2013 17:13, Michael Foord wrote: > > On 3 Jan 2013, at 17:07, Jon Ribbens > wrote: > > > On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 04:41:27PM +0000, Antonio Cavallo wrote: > >> like this? > >> > >> http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=50e5b456e4b04de5024affff > > > > I don't want either of those options, I want the proper, standard > > list behaviour, which is "Reply-To unchanged from the sender's email". > > However sincerely (and obstinately) you believe in the correctness of your > desires, the mailing list exists to serve its users - not any notion of > correctness. The majority of the subscribers who have expressed an opinion, > either in this thread or the poll, prefer reply-to-list > +1 Michael. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparks.m at gmail.com Thu Jan 3 20:41:31 2013 From: sparks.m at gmail.com (Michael) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 19:41:31 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: <20130103172943.GM1864@snowy.squish.net> References: <20130103151332.GH1864@snowy.squish.net> <7EABF62F4EF96745A40BD5893D93D2BE06EBDA@BGB01XUD1005.national.core.bbc.co.uk> <50E5B4B7.3040604@cavallinux.eu> <20130103170701.GL1864@snowy.squish.net> <20130103172943.GM1864@snowy.squish.net> Message-ID: On 3 January 2013 17:29, Jon Ribbens wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 05:13:57PM +0000, Michael Foord wrote: > > On 3 Jan 2013, at 17:07, Jon Ribbens wrote: > > > I don't want either of those options, I want the proper, standard > > > list behaviour, which is "Reply-To unchanged from the sender's email". > > > > However sincerely (and obstinately) you believe in the correctness > > of your desires, the mailing list exists to serve its users - not > > any notion of correctness. The majority of the subscribers who have > > expressed an opinion, either in this thread or the poll, prefer > > reply-to-list. > > > > FWIW on lists where reply-to goes to the individual I *very* > > regularly see messages accidentally sent only to the original sender > > and not to the list. This is regularly a (mild) impediment to > > communication. I very rarely see the opposite (public replies that > > were meant to be private). So the cure is largely worse than the > > disease. > > You are wrong. HTH. No, he's not - he's absolutely correct when he says the mailing list exists to serve its users - not any notion of correctness. Michael. (noting it's clearly bike shed season) From jon+python-uk at unequivocal.co.uk Thu Jan 3 23:41:23 2013 From: jon+python-uk at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 22:41:23 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: References: <20130103151332.GH1864@snowy.squish.net> <7EABF62F4EF96745A40BD5893D93D2BE06EBDA@BGB01XUD1005.national.core.bbc.co.uk> <50E5B4B7.3040604@cavallinux.eu> <20130103170701.GL1864@snowy.squish.net> <20130103172943.GM1864@snowy.squish.net> Message-ID: <20130103224123.GA17497@snowy.squish.net> On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 07:41:31PM +0000, Michael wrote: > On 3 January 2013 17:29, Jon Ribbens wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 05:13:57PM +0000, Michael Foord wrote: > > > On 3 Jan 2013, at 17:07, Jon Ribbens wrote: > > > > I don't want either of those options, I want the proper, standard > > > > list behaviour, which is "Reply-To unchanged from the sender's email". > > > > > > However sincerely (and obstinately) you believe in the correctness > > > of your desires, the mailing list exists to serve its users - not > > > any notion of correctness. The majority of the subscribers who have > > > expressed an opinion, either in this thread or the poll, prefer > > > reply-to-list. > > > > > > FWIW on lists where reply-to goes to the individual I *very* > > > regularly see messages accidentally sent only to the original sender > > > and not to the list. This is regularly a (mild) impediment to > > > communication. I very rarely see the opposite (public replies that > > > were meant to be private). So the cure is largely worse than the > > > disease. > > > > You are wrong. HTH. > > No, he's not - he's absolutely correct when he says the mailing list > exists to serve its users - not any notion of correctness. If that was the only thing he'd said I wouldn't've said he was wrong. From funthyme at gmail.com Fri Jan 4 00:08:45 2013 From: funthyme at gmail.com (John Pinner) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 23:08:45 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 3 January 2013 11:40, Andy Robinson wrote: > As a list admin I supposed I ought to ask this again. > > Currently the emails are set to 'reply to the list' by default. It > used to be 'reply to sender' but too many people found they were doing > just that and cutting off conversations, so a few years ago there was > a general vote to change it. > > In the light of this morning's, er, entertainment, are the Python > developers on this list (well, all but one of them...) happy with the > way it currently works? > Yes. John -- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sparks.m at gmail.com Fri Jan 4 00:19:16 2013 From: sparks.m at gmail.com (Michael) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 23:19:16 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: <20130103224123.GA17497@snowy.squish.net> References: <20130103151332.GH1864@snowy.squish.net> <7EABF62F4EF96745A40BD5893D93D2BE06EBDA@BGB01XUD1005.national.core.bbc.co.uk> <50E5B4B7.3040604@cavallinux.eu> <20130103170701.GL1864@snowy.squish.net> <20130103172943.GM1864@snowy.squish.net> <20130103224123.GA17497@snowy.squish.net> Message-ID: On 3 January 2013 22:41, Jon Ribbens wrote: > On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 07:41:31PM +0000, Michael wrote: >> On 3 January 2013 17:29, Jon Ribbens wrote: >> > On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 05:13:57PM +0000, Michael Foord wrote: >> > > On 3 Jan 2013, at 17:07, Jon Ribbens wrote: >> > > > I don't want either of those options, I want the proper, standard >> > > > list behaviour, which is "Reply-To unchanged from the sender's email". >> > > >> > > However sincerely (and obstinately) you believe in the correctness >> > > of your desires, the mailing list exists to serve its users - not >> > > any notion of correctness. The majority of the subscribers who have >> > > expressed an opinion, either in this thread or the poll, prefer >> > > reply-to-list. >> > > >> > > FWIW on lists where reply-to goes to the individual I *very* >> > > regularly see messages accidentally sent only to the original sender >> > > and not to the list. This is regularly a (mild) impediment to >> > > communication. I very rarely see the opposite (public replies that >> > > were meant to be private). So the cure is largely worse than the >> > > disease. >> > >> > You are wrong. HTH. >> >> No, he's not - he's absolutely correct when he says the mailing list >> exists to serve its users - not any notion of correctness. > > If that was the only thing he'd said I wouldn't've said he was wrong. Since you're not arguing that he's wrong about the majority of list posters (here) preferring reply to list, and that the mailing list exists to serve them, and that any arbitrary notion of correctness other than that isn't relevant, are you saying that Michael's perception of what he sees is incorrect? (cf "I rarely see" and "I very rarely see") Or is he wrong about your apparent obstinate belief in your desires ? (I personally would have said petulant) Michael. From daniele at vurt.org Fri Jan 4 00:24:13 2013 From: daniele at vurt.org (Daniele Procida) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 23:24:13 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: References: <20130103151332.GH1864@snowy.squish.net> <7EABF62F4EF96745A40BD5893D93D2BE06EBDA@BGB01XUD1005.national.core.bbc.co.uk > <50E5B4B7.3040604@cavallinux.eu> <20130103170701.GL1864@snowy.squish.net> <20130103172943.GM1864@snowy.squish.net> <20130103224123.GA17497@snowy.squish.net> Message-ID: <20130103232413.1791284298@smtp.ntlworld.com> On Thu, Jan 3, 2013, Michael wrote: >Or is he wrong about your apparent obstinate belief in your desires ? >(I personally would have said petulant) That's uncalled-for. It would be gauche to end up trading insults over reply-to settings, and we don't want to be gauche, do we? Daniele From sparks.m at gmail.com Fri Jan 4 00:40:54 2013 From: sparks.m at gmail.com (Michael) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 23:40:54 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: <20130103232413.1791284298@smtp.ntlworld.com> References: <20130103151332.GH1864@snowy.squish.net> <50E5B4B7.3040604@cavallinux.eu> <20130103170701.GL1864@snowy.squish.net> <20130103172943.GM1864@snowy.squish.net> <20130103224123.GA17497@snowy.squish.net> <20130103232413.1791284298@smtp.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: On 3 January 2013 23:24, Daniele Procida wrote: > On Thu, Jan 3, 2013, Michael wrote: > >>Or is he wrong about your apparent obstinate belief in your desires ? >>(I personally would have said petulant) > > That's uncalled-for. > > It would be gauche to end up trading insults over reply-to settings, and we don't want to be gauche, do we? Very true. I didn't view it or intend it that way, but can see how it could be. Maybe I've just seen this argument too many times. Michael. From jon+python-uk at unequivocal.co.uk Fri Jan 4 00:55:21 2013 From: jon+python-uk at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 23:55:21 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to In-Reply-To: References: <50E5B4B7.3040604@cavallinux.eu> <20130103170701.GL1864@snowy.squish.net> <20130103172943.GM1864@snowy.squish.net> <20130103224123.GA17497@snowy.squish.net> <20130103232413.1791284298@smtp.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <20130103235521.GB17497@snowy.squish.net> On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 11:40:54PM +0000, Michael wrote: > On 3 January 2013 23:24, Daniele Procida wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 3, 2013, Michael wrote: > > > >>Or is he wrong about your apparent obstinate belief in your desires ? > >>(I personally would have said petulant) > > > > That's uncalled-for. > > > > It would be gauche to end up trading insults over reply-to > > settings, and we don't want to be gauche, do we? > > Very true. I didn't view it or intend it that way, but can see how it > could be. Maybe I've just seen this argument too many times. Makes one wonder why you're trying to have it again then really. From tom at viner.tv Tue Jan 8 18:16:14 2013 From: tom at viner.tv (Tom Viner) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 17:16:14 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Peer-to-peer dojo Message-ID: Hi again everyone (except recruiters), Well the dojo was fun last night wasn't it! The "build a peer to peer chat network" proved interesting if a little tricky to finish in the time. And with that in mind, I think some of the teams/dojoers would enjoy seeing if they can get their network working. I've added team1's code as a submodule to this dojo repo: https://github.com/ldnpydojo/p2p-chat-task So if any teams would like to post their achievements, email me your code or git repo details and I'll add it to the ldnpydojo repo. See you again next month! Cheers, Tom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tartley at tartley.com Tue Jan 8 20:02:22 2013 From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2013 19:02:22 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] gosh this is exciting In-Reply-To: References: <20130103151332.GH1864@snowy.squish.net> <7EABF62F4EF96745A40BD5893D93D2BE06EBDA@BGB01XUD1005.national.core.bbc.co.uk> <50E5B4B7.3040604@cavallinux.eu> <20130103170701.GL1864@snowy.squish.net> <20130103172943.GM1864@snowy.squish.net> <20130103224123.GA17497@snowy.squish.net> Message-ID: <50EC6D3E.5040702@tartley.com> On 03/01/2013 23:19, Michael Foord wrote: > >> > > FWIW on lists where reply-to goes to the individual I*very* > >> > >regularly see messages accidentally sent only to the original sender > >> > >and not to the list. Does anyone else smell a rat? How would he know???? Is Mr Foord READING ALL OUR EMAILS!?!?!?! Thank you all for providing a stream of giggles to brighten my day. -- Jonathan Hartley tartley at tartley.com http://tartley.com Made of meat. +44 7737 062 225 twitter/skype: tartley -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From akumria at acm.org Wed Jan 9 00:10:52 2013 From: akumria at acm.org (Anand Kumria) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 23:10:52 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] gosh this is exciting In-Reply-To: <50EC6D3E.5040702@tartley.com> References: <20130103151332.GH1864@snowy.squish.net> <7EABF62F4EF96745A40BD5893D93D2BE06EBDA@BGB01XUD1005.national.core.bbc.co.uk> <50E5B4B7.3040604@cavallinux.eu> <20130103170701.GL1864@snowy.squish.net> <20130103172943.GM1864@snowy.squish.net> <20130103224123.GA17497@snowy.squish.net> <50EC6D3E.5040702@tartley.com> Message-ID: Hi, Of course we smelt a rat. As soon as that comment came out, I gave up on even reading the discourse that followed. Fundamentally many of the commentators do not realise that forcing people to participate - i.e. forcing reply-to to be public - (imagine be *required* to attend *every* Python-related meetup in London; no matter what) simply does not work. No technical means to enforce / create a community has worked. Enough people elaborated on the (many) technical pitfalls of having reply-to, so I won't, the community one is often overlooked. Anand On 8 January 2013 19:02, Jonathan Hartley wrote: > On 03/01/2013 23:19, Michael Foord wrote: > >>> > > FWIW on lists where reply-to goes to the individual I *very* >>> > > regularly see messages accidentally sent only to the original sender >>> > > and not to the list. > > > Does anyone else smell a rat? How would he know???? Is Mr Foord READING ALL > OUR EMAILS!?!?!?! > > Thank you all for providing a stream of giggles to brighten my day. > > -- > Jonathan Hartley tartley at tartley.com http://tartley.com > Made of meat. +44 7737 062 225 twitter/skype: tartley > > > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > -- ?Don?t be sad because it?s over. Smile because it happened.? ? Dr. Seuss From inelegr88 at gmail.com Wed Jan 9 00:34:51 2013 From: inelegr88 at gmail.com (Eleni Lixourioti) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 23:34:51 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] gosh this is exciting In-Reply-To: References: <20130103151332.GH1864@snowy.squish.net> <7EABF62F4EF96745A40BD5893D93D2BE06EBDA@BGB01XUD1005.national.core.bbc.co.uk> <50E5B4B7.3040604@cavallinux.eu> <20130103170701.GL1864@snowy.squish.net> <20130103172943.GM1864@snowy.squish.net> <20130103224123.GA17497@snowy.squish.net> <50EC6D3E.5040702@tartley.com> Message-ID: <3D68E82E-C71A-404A-A27F-4A80B9D3FDBC@gmail.com> Exciting indeed, this is seriously the most participation I've seen on any thread or subject in all my time on this mailing list! (ok it's only been a couple of years...) This might actually be my first reply to this mailing list :) I don't know how a reply-to setting "forces" participation in any way but so that the argument makes more sense to me I suggest we rename it to "reply-or-die at python.org". Eleni On 8 Jan 2013, at 23:10, Anand Kumria wrote: > Hi, > > Of course we smelt a rat. > > As soon as that comment came out, I gave up on even reading the > discourse that followed. > > Fundamentally many of the commentators do not realise that forcing > people to participate - i.e. forcing reply-to to be public - (imagine > be *required* to attend *every* Python-related meetup in London; no > matter what) simply does not work. > > No technical means to enforce / create a community has worked. > > Enough people elaborated on the (many) technical pitfalls of having > reply-to, so I won't, the community one is often overlooked. > > Anand > > > On 8 January 2013 19:02, Jonathan Hartley wrote: >> On 03/01/2013 23:19, Michael Foord wrote: >> >>>>>> FWIW on lists where reply-to goes to the individual I *very* >>>>>> regularly see messages accidentally sent only to the original sender >>>>>> and not to the list. >> >> >> Does anyone else smell a rat? How would he know???? Is Mr Foord READING ALL >> OUR EMAILS!?!?!?! >> >> Thank you all for providing a stream of giggles to brighten my day. >> >> -- >> Jonathan Hartley tartley at tartley.com http://tartley.com >> Made of meat. +44 7737 062 225 twitter/skype: tartley >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> python-uk mailing list >> python-uk at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk >> > > > > -- > ?Don?t be sad because it?s over. Smile because it happened.? ? Dr. Seuss > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk From salim.fadhley at baml.com Wed Jan 9 12:40:59 2013 From: salim.fadhley at baml.com (Fadhley, Salim) Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2013 11:40:59 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] *still recruiting* Python developers for in my team @ Bank of America, Canary Wharf, London Message-ID: I'm still recruiting Python developers for my own team at Bank of America. Candidates should be strong, fluent Python developers. We have positions available for both contractors and permanent employees. We are interested in meeting people from all kinds of background (not just finance). Experience with other platforms is also valuable, but ultimately we need Python skills. Our team is in charge of delivering an API + GUI tool which are used by almost every line of business within Bank of America. Bank of America is a very good place to be a Python developer right now - the most important systems are porting-over to a new Python-based platform. This is an organization where skills in Python are very highly regarded. If you are interested contact me directly: Email: salim.fadhley at baml.com or sal at stodge.org (after hours) LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=11408420 Phone: 07973 710574 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This message, and any attachments, is for the intended recipient(s) only, may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or proprietary and subject to important terms and conditions available at http://www.bankofamerica.com/emaildisclaimer. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message. From daniele at vurt.org Thu Jan 10 18:46:01 2013 From: daniele at vurt.org (Daniele Procida) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 17:46:01 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Don't be afraid to commit - a free Python/Django workshop (Cardiff) Message-ID: <20130110174601.217382394@smtp.ntlworld.com> A hands-on workshop for Python/Django developers who would like to contribute more to the projects they use, but need more grounding in some of the tools required. What's in it for you ==================== As well as helping to put you in a position to commit successfully to collaborative projects, the workshop's emphasis on using virtualenv/pip and git will help you manage your own work in a more streamlined and efficient way. The automate testing tutorial - the most substantial component of the workshop - will help you develop your software faster, better and more easily. What we'll cover ================ The workshop will take participants through the complete cycle of identifying a simple issue in a Django or Python project, writing a patch with tests and documentation, and submitting it. The workshop will take you through the use of: * virtualenv and pip * git (and GitHub) * running and writing tests for Python applications * writing and building documentation using Sphinx * submitting a pull request A workbook and reference guide will be provided to support the workshop. What you need to know ===================== The workshop is open to anyone, but places will be limited. Date: a weekday morning or afternoon in February or March 2012 Venue: Cardiff University Attendance fee: none Let me know if you'd like to attend! Daniele From jackson15j at hotmail.com Fri Jan 11 13:55:44 2013 From: jackson15j at hotmail.com (craig astill) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 12:55:44 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Don't be afraid to commit - a free Python/Django workshop (Cardiff) Message-ID: I would be interested in this. craig > A hands-on workshop for Python/Django developers who would like to > contribute > more to the projects they use, but need more grounding in some of the tools > required. > > What's in it for you > ==================== > > As well as helping to put you in a position to commit successfully to > collaborative projects, the workshop's emphasis on using virtualenv/pip and > git will help you manage your own work in a more streamlined and efficient > way. > > The automate testing tutorial - the most substantial component of the > workshop > - will help you develop your software faster, better and more easily. > > What we'll cover > ================ > > The workshop will take participants through the complete cycle of > identifying > a simple issue in a Django or Python project, writing a patch with tests > and > documentation, and submitting it. > > The workshop will take you through the use of: > > * virtualenv and pip > * git (and GitHub) > * running and writing tests for Python applications > * writing and building documentation using Sphinx > * submitting a pull request > > A workbook and reference guide will be provided to support the workshop. > > What you need to know > ===================== > > The workshop is open to anyone, but places will be limited. > > Date: a weekday morning or afternoon in February or March 2012 > Venue: Cardiff University > Attendance fee: none > > Let me know if you'd like to attend! > > Daniele > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlenton at gmail.com Fri Jan 11 17:36:00 2013 From: jlenton at gmail.com (John Lenton) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:36:00 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] [OT] about ubuntu and secure boot Message-ID: Hi! Somebody in team 2 in the dojo had a notebook that was booting windows 8 and running ubuntu in a vm because they didn't want to be guinea pigs for secure boot on ubuntu. Sorry that I'm so terrible with names I can't remember who it was. Anyway, I thought you could use this that recently came up in an internal list here at Canonical: On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 1:23 AM, Steve Langasek < steve.langasek at canonical.com> wrote: > Quite a bit of work went into ensuring that 12.10 would boot out of the box > with Secure Boot enabled with no problems; and 12.04 before that should > already support booting and installing under UEFI. The Secure Boot work is > also being backported for inclusion in the 12.04.2 point release, so if > you're running into issues with it, we definitely would like to know. > Please file a bug report against the shim package about any issues booting > 12.10 on secureboot-enabled systems. > > Note that Secure Boot - and UEFI generally - is only enabled on the amd64 > images, *not* on the i386 images; so if you were using the i386 image, that > would also explain why you weren't able to use it. (quoted with permission :-) ) So, 12.10 should have you safely outside of guinea pig territory already. If you need the LTS, wait for 12.04.2 (2013-01-31). HTH, -- John Lenton (jlenton at gmail.com) ::: http://chipaca.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlenton at gmail.com Fri Jan 11 17:43:48 2013 From: jlenton at gmail.com (John Lenton) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:43:48 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] [OT] about ubuntu and secure boot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 4:36 PM, John Lenton wrote: > So, 12.10 should have you safely outside of guinea pig territory already. > If you need the LTS, wait for 12.04.2 (2013-01-31). > > um, that just got bumped to 2013-02-14 :-| -- John Lenton (jlenton at gmail.com) ::: http://chipaca.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brian at python.org Mon Jan 14 16:34:49 2013 From: brian at python.org (Brian Curtin) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 15:34:49 -0000 Subject: [python-uk] PyCon 2013 Schedule Announced! Message-ID: Hi UK Python Users! It's that time of year again: the PyCon schedule has been announced and the rush to pick up tickets is on! https://us.pycon.org/2013/schedule/ was completed last week, and we've seen a sharp increase in sales as we approach 1,500 registrations. This year we're limiting the attendance to 2,500 for our second year in Santa Clara, CA. The conference runs from March 13-21. The 2013 edition of PyCon is going to be the biggest and best yet. We've added a sixth track of talks, giving you 114 presentations to view. Tutorials are better than ever, with an even wider range of topics than before. They keynotes are being given by an excellent group: Eben Upton, Jessica McKellar, Raymond Hettinger, and Guido van Rossum. Tickets are available now at https://us.pycon.org/2013/registration/. Student rates were cut in half for 2013 to $125, and individual registrations are only $350. Corporate tickets are currently $600. No matter what group you fall into, the value PyCon provides is incredible. We've got a ton of great events going on throughout the conference. There's a workshop for kids 12 and under to learn Python - https://us.pycon.org/2013/events/letslearnpython/. The successful PyData conference is running during the sprints - http://sv2013.eventbrite.com/. The Postgres community is running PyPgDay during the tutorials - https://us.pycon.org/2013/events/pgday/. We're once again doing the 5K run, and the open spaces and sprints will be a blast as well. We also have a few tricks up our sleeve that we'll update you on at http://pycon.blogspot.com/ and https://www.twitter.com/PyCon. If your organization is interested in sponsoring PyCon, check out our prospectus at https://us.pycon.org/2013/sponsors/prospectus/ and contact conference chairman Jesse Noller at jnoller at python.org with any questions. Thanks for your time, and we hope to see you at PyCon 2013! Jesse Noller PyCon Chairman jnoller at python.org Brian Curtin PyCon Publicity Coordinator brian at python.org From lord.mauve at gmail.com Mon Jan 14 22:36:08 2013 From: lord.mauve at gmail.com (Daniel Pope) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 21:36:08 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Next Reading Python Dojo, 22nd January 2013 Message-ID: The next Reading Python Dojo will be on Tuesday 22nd January at 7pm, at Austin Fraser in Forbury Square, Reading as usual. Please sign up for a free ticket at the link below if you would like to attend. https://rdgpydojo.eventwax.com/reading-python-dojo-january-2013 Our hosts Austin Fraser also sponsor free beer and pizza; add a message on the ticket sign-up form if you have particular preferences. If anyone would be willing to give a talk on any interesting subject before coding starts, please drop me an e-mail. Dan From dougal85 at gmail.com Wed Jan 16 18:09:53 2013 From: dougal85 at gmail.com (Dougal Matthews) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 17:09:53 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Inaugural Python Glasgow Meetup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey All, The good news is that the first meeting is almost upon us and will be in Blackfriars on Monday the 28th! For directions and location etc. go to; https://plus.google.com/118203602385718703490/about?gl=uk&hl=en I've booked a table under the name ?Dougal Matthews? for 6:30. I'll be there sharp (read as early) and have a Python sign and some relevant t-shirt probably. So we will be easy to spot! One more reminder that all the relevant links are on the website www.pythonglasgow.org if you want to follow on Twitter, join us on IRC or add the event calendar etc. There is a Google+ community that some people are using and it's got the event listed if you want to show you're coming. https://plus.google.com/events/cedalte1u8gu2mnndpjhru14djc?authkey=CNy8u_vU8oqwTA Alternatively replying here to let us know you're coming helps with numbers too! Look forward to seeing you all there, Dougal P.S. I won't always cross post to the Python-UK mailing list (but will for the first couple of months). So make sure you sign up to the Glasgow list for event notifications; http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/glasgow -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lord.mauve at gmail.com Mon Jan 21 16:48:04 2013 From: lord.mauve at gmail.com (Daniel Pope) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 15:48:04 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Reading Python Dojo, tomorrow (Tuesday 22nd January) Message-ID: Hi all, Just a reminder that there are plenty of places still available for tomorrow's Python Dojo in Reading. If you'd like to brave the cold and the snow, the reward is beer and pizza, not to mention a couple of hours to program something cool in Python. If you would like to attend, please take a ticket at https://rdgpydojo.eventwax.com/reading-python-dojo-january-2013 Dan From d_chetwynd at fastmail.co.uk Wed Jan 23 14:11:23 2013 From: d_chetwynd at fastmail.co.uk (Daley Chetwynd) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 13:11:23 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Next Python Sheffield meeting Tues Jan 29th Message-ID: <1358946683.24985.140661181293721.7ED61CAC@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hi all, The GIST Lab has now closed, so huge thanks for all they've done for the Python Sheffield group. For the next six months the Python Sheffield group will be meeting in Conference Room 2 of the Workstation, which is next to the GIST Lab, behind the Showroom cinema and opposite Sheffield train station. Note the earlier start and end times This month we have the following two speakers: Daley Chetwynd (@dchetwynd)- Comparison of Python web templating engines Thomas Kluyver (@takluyver)- Making Python Run Fast The description for Thomas' talk is: "For years, Python developers have traded the execution speed of a statically compiled language for the development speed of an interpreted one. Now there are several projects aiming to give us the best of both worlds. We'll look at the advantages of different options, like PyPy, Cython and Numba." If you'd like to join us for this event then please register for free at: https://plus.google.com/u/0/events/cp3q7fnqbf40doavj2aoaets378 The Python Sheffield group is open to all levels of Python user, including those who don't currently know the language but would like to learn. We're always looking for future speakers, so if you'd like to talk on anything Python-related and fancy a trip over to Sheffield, please get in touch. To find out more, follow @pysheff on Twitter or see the Google group: groups.google.com/group/python-sheffield Thanks, Daley -- http://www.fastmail.fm - A fast, anti-spam email service. From ntoll at ntoll.org Mon Jan 28 10:01:58 2013 From: ntoll at ntoll.org (Nicholas H.Tollervey) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 09:01:58 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Packaging advice for ujson / rpm / RHEL5 Message-ID: <51063E86.8050608@ntoll.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, I need to build an RPM of ujson for RHEL5 targeting Python2.6. This will be deployed on "front end" boxes that do not have a compiler installed (hence I can't just pip install the damn thing). All the RHEL5 machines have Python 2.4, 2.5 and 2.6 installed with the default being 2.4 (what you get from /usr/bin/python). If I run setup in the root of the ujson project like this: $ python2.6 setup.py bdist_rpm I notice from the output from GCC that the script has the -fPIC flag reference /usr/include/python2.4 :-( Obviously, compilation is being done against the wrong version of Python. Anyone know how to pass in or force the version to Python 2.6? Many thanks, Nicholas. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with undefined - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJRBj6DAAoJEP0qBPaYQbb6zhEIAKBRAxOmrq3XcBxG9PAlhMFf 9yYQ5cXumEFHMAyEM+DB9my+/VKojyWCYnsdkw5hSPheblyzdNExToqNOsNkgs+V Yg5OJ7/8G0mHi0Q/PjTLPdGtyuL4nRWTu2oOorq1MI9gZYAhAve9J1v1uYN6DJ1u 97DoAda4VaIQoRAjT4M1m9w3lrj8w90Ke6vFLTlctjo3ln64yD86MXinT1xa8Y3F 2Kzskm6/0Bpis16ek4+xS5tOxVWw6AtxmV2r3Oxx8PjQpleh3ewZjDE1B9217613 QpSI3kkhhl7Di+4O+W9HTNBOosnFodFk6UJjroRJb57opYejj+gymBfQzxktQKM= =x/Jb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ross.lawley at gmail.com Mon Jan 28 10:17:11 2013 From: ross.lawley at gmail.com (Ross Lawley) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 09:17:11 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Packaging advice for ujson / rpm / RHEL5 In-Reply-To: <51063E86.8050608@ntoll.org> References: <51063E86.8050608@ntoll.org> Message-ID: Hi Nicholas, Theres a --fix-python flag which might be right for you; see setup.py bdist_rpm --help Ross On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 9:01 AM, Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi, > > I need to build an RPM of ujson for RHEL5 targeting Python2.6. This > will be deployed on "front end" boxes that do not have a compiler > installed (hence I can't just pip install the damn thing). > > All the RHEL5 machines have Python 2.4, 2.5 and 2.6 installed with the > default being 2.4 (what you get from /usr/bin/python). > > If I run setup in the root of the ujson project like this: > > $ python2.6 setup.py bdist_rpm > > I notice from the output from GCC that the script has the -fPIC flag > reference /usr/include/python2.4 > > :-( > > Obviously, compilation is being done against the wrong version of Python. > > Anyone know how to pass in or force the version to Python 2.6? > > Many thanks, > > Nicholas. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with undefined - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJRBj6DAAoJEP0qBPaYQbb6zhEIAKBRAxOmrq3XcBxG9PAlhMFf > 9yYQ5cXumEFHMAyEM+DB9my+/VKojyWCYnsdkw5hSPheblyzdNExToqNOsNkgs+V > Yg5OJ7/8G0mHi0Q/PjTLPdGtyuL4nRWTu2oOorq1MI9gZYAhAve9J1v1uYN6DJ1u > 97DoAda4VaIQoRAjT4M1m9w3lrj8w90Ke6vFLTlctjo3ln64yD86MXinT1xa8Y3F > 2Kzskm6/0Bpis16ek4+xS5tOxVWw6AtxmV2r3Oxx8PjQpleh3ewZjDE1B9217613 > QpSI3kkhhl7Di+4O+W9HTNBOosnFodFk6UJjroRJb57opYejj+gymBfQzxktQKM= > =x/Jb > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From renesd at gmail.com Mon Jan 28 10:20:50 2013 From: renesd at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Dudfield?=) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:20:50 +0100 Subject: [python-uk] Packaging advice for ujson / rpm / RHEL5 In-Reply-To: <51063E86.8050608@ntoll.org> References: <51063E86.8050608@ntoll.org> Message-ID: Try exporting compilation environment variables. Like CC LD_LIBRARY_FLAGS etc. Google them :) On Jan 28, 2013 10:04 AM, "Nicholas H.Tollervey" wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi, > > I need to build an RPM of ujson for RHEL5 targeting Python2.6. This > will be deployed on "front end" boxes that do not have a compiler > installed (hence I can't just pip install the damn thing). > > All the RHEL5 machines have Python 2.4, 2.5 and 2.6 installed with the > default being 2.4 (what you get from /usr/bin/python). > > If I run setup in the root of the ujson project like this: > > $ python2.6 setup.py bdist_rpm > > I notice from the output from GCC that the script has the -fPIC flag > reference /usr/include/python2.4 > > :-( > > Obviously, compilation is being done against the wrong version of Python. > > Anyone know how to pass in or force the version to Python 2.6? > > Many thanks, > > Nicholas. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with undefined - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJRBj6DAAoJEP0qBPaYQbb6zhEIAKBRAxOmrq3XcBxG9PAlhMFf > 9yYQ5cXumEFHMAyEM+DB9my+/VKojyWCYnsdkw5hSPheblyzdNExToqNOsNkgs+V > Yg5OJ7/8G0mHi0Q/PjTLPdGtyuL4nRWTu2oOorq1MI9gZYAhAve9J1v1uYN6DJ1u > 97DoAda4VaIQoRAjT4M1m9w3lrj8w90Ke6vFLTlctjo3ln64yD86MXinT1xa8Y3F > 2Kzskm6/0Bpis16ek4+xS5tOxVWw6AtxmV2r3Oxx8PjQpleh3ewZjDE1B9217613 > QpSI3kkhhl7Di+4O+W9HTNBOosnFodFk6UJjroRJb57opYejj+gymBfQzxktQKM= > =x/Jb > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From a.cavallo at cavallinux.eu Mon Jan 28 10:32:39 2013 From: a.cavallo at cavallinux.eu (Antonio Cavallo) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 09:32:39 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Packaging advice for ujson / rpm / RHEL5 In-Reply-To: References: <51063E86.8050608@ntoll.org> Message-ID: <510645B7.3080705@cavallinux.eu> Hi, have a look to : http://cclimited.webfactional.com/make_your_module/spec.creator.pyquality.html If you strip off the %define opt_python and %define _prefix you'll have a multi platform rpm spec file (and the blue bit have to be changed). Let me know if that helps you. Ren? Dudfield wrote: > Try exporting compilation environment variables. Like CC > LD_LIBRARY_FLAGS etc. Google them :) > > On Jan 28, 2013 10:04 AM, "Nicholas H.Tollervey" > wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi, > > I need to build an RPM of ujson for RHEL5 targeting Python2.6. This > will be deployed on "front end" boxes that do not have a compiler > installed (hence I can't just pip install the damn thing). > > All the RHEL5 machines have Python 2.4, 2.5 and 2.6 installed with the > default being 2.4 (what you get from /usr/bin/python). > > If I run setup in the root of the ujson project like this: > > $ python2.6 setup.py bdist_rpm > > I notice from the output from GCC that the script has the -fPIC flag > reference /usr/include/python2.4 > > :-( > > Obviously, compilation is being done against the wrong version of > Python. > > Anyone know how to pass in or force the version to Python 2.6? > > Many thanks, > > Nicholas. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with undefined - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJRBj6DAAoJEP0qBPaYQbb6zhEIAKBRAxOmrq3XcBxG9PAlhMFf > 9yYQ5cXumEFHMAyEM+DB9my+/VKojyWCYnsdkw5hSPheblyzdNExToqNOsNkgs+V > Yg5OJ7/8G0mHi0Q/PjTLPdGtyuL4nRWTu2oOorq1MI9gZYAhAve9J1v1uYN6DJ1u > 97DoAda4VaIQoRAjT4M1m9w3lrj8w90Ke6vFLTlctjo3ln64yD86MXinT1xa8Y3F > 2Kzskm6/0Bpis16ek4+xS5tOxVWw6AtxmV2r3Oxx8PjQpleh3ewZjDE1B9217613 > QpSI3kkhhl7Di+4O+W9HTNBOosnFodFk6UJjroRJb57opYejj+gymBfQzxktQKM= > =x/Jb > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk From ntoll at ntoll.org Mon Jan 28 11:01:27 2013 From: ntoll at ntoll.org (Nicholas H.Tollervey) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:01:27 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Packaging advice for ujson / rpm / RHEL5 In-Reply-To: <510645B7.3080705@cavallinux.eu> References: <51063E86.8050608@ntoll.org> <510645B7.3080705@cavallinux.eu> Message-ID: <51064C77.7060407@ntoll.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Aha... many thanks for the help. Ross, your suggestion was exactly what I needed. Funnily enough I'd tried to look in help (python2.6 setup.py --help) but had obviously failed to do so for bdist_rpm. Thanks! N. On 28/01/13 09:32, Antonio Cavallo wrote: > Hi, > > have a look to : > > http://cclimited.webfactional.com/make_your_module/spec.creator.pyquality.html > > > > > If you strip off the %define opt_python and %define _prefix you'll > have a multi platform rpm spec file (and the blue bit have to be > changed). > > Let me know if that helps you. > > > > > Ren? Dudfield wrote: >> Try exporting compilation environment variables. Like CC >> LD_LIBRARY_FLAGS etc. Google them :) >> >> On Jan 28, 2013 10:04 AM, "Nicholas H.Tollervey" >> > wrote: >> > Hi, > > I need to build an RPM of ujson for RHEL5 targeting Python2.6. > This will be deployed on "front end" boxes that do not have a > compiler installed (hence I can't just pip install the damn > thing). > > All the RHEL5 machines have Python 2.4, 2.5 and 2.6 installed with >>> the > default being 2.4 (what you get from /usr/bin/python). > > If I run setup in the root of the ujson project like this: > > $ python2.6 setup.py bdist_rpm > > I notice from the output from GCC that the script has the -fPIC > flag reference /usr/include/python2.4 > > :-( > > Obviously, compilation is being done against the wrong version of > Python. > > Anyone know how to pass in or force the version to Python 2.6? > > Many thanks, > > Nicholas. >> _______________________________________________ python-uk mailing >> list python-uk at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk >> >> _______________________________________________ python-uk mailing >> list python-uk at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > _______________________________________________ python-uk mailing > list python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with undefined - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJRBkx3AAoJEP0qBPaYQbb6ymcIAKNXTny/UQIWeJ4mhOdWmH9Z 1xUjT1NsyDl9W3rLsEmCkK5WZKmnyKKL8qeNjxJkRM1TJKvgU3AFSBMJvvKOtrXs p8cYz9BMGzIki0hwY3+kW3gx4zRUTiYOXl0UAb8iCImYnFzN2g46QdITBUnQ9tpq ExMkW+59UcCS1MpOpLiD2RV/FQ4SGVTU3bdbJnqQR7quifozx/BiCRzPevvLX0FB XkFgqGDauNDvR5oD2syelpi4pe+gZ6qM/FMfmtIvrukbBU/IauU3ymEP7dW+5ECC b91srJqRFuuiZWRRmLJ/7p5rZzuBEvsqXjahQ9kTwim1nx7vUXKNmIkETHoUk6k= =+/uq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From funthyme at gmail.com Mon Jan 28 11:10:10 2013 From: funthyme at gmail.com (John Pinner) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 10:10:10 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Packaging advice for ujson / rpm / RHEL5 In-Reply-To: <51063E86.8050608@ntoll.org> References: <51063E86.8050608@ntoll.org> Message-ID: Hi, On 28 January 2013 09:01, Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi, > > I need to build an RPM of ujson for RHEL5 targeting Python2.6. This > will be deployed on "front end" boxes that do not have a compiler > installed (hence I can't just pip install the damn thing). > > All the RHEL5 machines have Python 2.4, 2.5 and 2.6 installed with the > default being 2.4 (what you get from /usr/bin/python). > > If I run setup in the root of the ujson project like this: > > $ python2.6 setup.py bdist_rpm > > I notice from the output from GCC that the script has the -fPIC flag > reference /usr/include/python2.4 > > :-( > > Obviously, compilation is being done against the wrong version of Python. > > Anyone know how to pass in or force the version to Python 2.6? > Two possibilities occur to me: 1. You can build your rpm on some other version of Linux running python 2.6 (I build our payroll rpms on Debian, they run OK on RHEL and SUSE). 2. On most systems, 'python' lives in /usr/bin and is a symbolic link to the actual version of python, eg python2.6. So in usr/bin you may find 'python2.4', 'python2.5', 'python 2.6' and even 'python3.3', with 'python' being linked to the default. So by changing the link, you change the version. You could for example ln -s /usr/bin/python2.6 /usr/local/bin/python which, provided that /usr/.local/bin is in the search path before /usr/bin, cause invocations of 'python' to run python2.6. However, python programs/modules which have a hashbang line #!/usr/bin/env python will run with 2.6 OK whereas those which have #!/usr/bin/python will continue to use the old default, which is possibly the cause of your problem anyway. So, running as root: cd /usr/bin rm python ln -s python2.6 python should enable you to build your rpm for python 2.6 BUT could affect other users adversely, so you would need to do your work while the system is quiescent and reverse the change afterwards. Using these old 'enterprise' systems is like working with your hands tied behind your back : in the Red Hat world, you may be better off developing on Fedora while targetting RHEL, but not as well off as changing (and getting your customer to change) to Debian, although I guess that that is a lost cause for any customer who has chosen an 'enterprise' system in the first place. Best wishes, John -- > > Many thanks, > > Nicholas. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From a.cavallo at cavallinux.eu Mon Jan 28 11:39:47 2013 From: a.cavallo at cavallinux.eu (a.cavallo at cavallinux.eu) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 11:39:47 +0100 Subject: [python-uk] Packaging advice for ujson / rpm / RHEL5 Message-ID: <18202.1359369587@cavallinux.eu> Opensuse provides a nice build service for open source projects: https://build.opensuse.org/ They provide a CI (continuous integration) support for all the "enterprise" stuff distro. I maintain an /opt based python of latest mercurial code and it is particularly effective. I hope this helps. > Using these old enterprise systems is like working with your hands > tied behind your back : in the Red Hat world, you may be better off > developing on Fedora while targetting RHEL, but not as well off as > changing (and getting your customer to change) to Debian, although I > guess that that is a lost cause for any customer who has chosen an > enterprise system in the first place. From funthyme at gmail.com Mon Jan 28 14:49:25 2013 From: funthyme at gmail.com (John Pinner) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 13:49:25 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Packaging advice for ujson / rpm / RHEL5 In-Reply-To: <18202.1359369587@cavallinux.eu> References: <18202.1359369587@cavallinux.eu> Message-ID: Hi, On 28 January 2013 10:39, wrote: > Opensuse provides a nice build service for open source projects: > https://build.opensuse.org/ > > They provide a CI (continuous integration) support for all the > "enterprise" stuff > distro. > It's worth mentioning that this is *not* confined to SUSE projects. John -- > > I maintain an /opt based python of latest mercurial code and it is > particularly > effective. > > I hope this helps. > > > > Using these old enterprise systems is like working with your hands > > tied behind your back : in the Red Hat world, you may be better off > > developing on Fedora while targetting RHEL, but not as well off as > > changing (and getting your customer to change) to Debian, although I > > guess that that is a lost cause for any customer who has chosen an > > enterprise system in the first place. > > > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ntoll at ntoll.org Tue Jan 29 07:44:46 2013 From: ntoll at ntoll.org (Nicholas H.Tollervey) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 06:44:46 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Packaging advice for ujson / rpm / RHEL5 In-Reply-To: <51063E86.8050608@ntoll.org> References: <51063E86.8050608@ntoll.org> Message-ID: <51076FDE.6000109@ntoll.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Wow, what a great set of answers. Thanks guys..! N. On 28/01/13 09:01, Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote: > Hi, > > I need to build an RPM of ujson for RHEL5 targeting Python2.6. > This will be deployed on "front end" boxes that do not have a > compiler installed (hence I can't just pip install the damn > thing). > > All the RHEL5 machines have Python 2.4, 2.5 and 2.6 installed with > the default being 2.4 (what you get from /usr/bin/python). > > If I run setup in the root of the ujson project like this: > > $ python2.6 setup.py bdist_rpm > > I notice from the output from GCC that the script has the -fPIC > flag reference /usr/include/python2.4 > > :-( > > Obviously, compilation is being done against the wrong version of > Python. > > Anyone know how to pass in or force the version to Python 2.6? > > Many thanks, > > Nicholas. _______________________________________________ python-uk > mailing list python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with undefined - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJRB2/bAAoJEP0qBPaYQbb67iYH/23tTxE4t+DmwXByvhrWJoc0 U0qS7vPvErHUSE1tn4byGE/oZ/l8FbT4Ov78qpG9yVPjdQ6L3qk2h1dd2E4t6y/L QrTEQ5ebFGenVO5FUv0doMf3k2egunUWCdAcOMf5wdRSkwN3l/6xyewCxIX6p2Ju kmbceQQPbGjl9Pxy8KfLUSwX7TYHbqEx9MjrmJNTAzwnlye6i6erP3gFvRN7bvZl KPEtIkkt6xA2qiEmNyP3K3ifkfSIsNFP17hzhkTpO9GK98CDOSNTvbqIMnuJ4QBR kG5UMAi3UkuK5wK0cMbGI+VHsscQte1edPMofnAQE7oEBn/4QooB7GMf5383owo= =XBjC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tibs at tibsnjoan.co.uk Tue Jan 29 20:43:40 2013 From: tibs at tibsnjoan.co.uk (Tony Ibbs) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 19:43:40 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Next CamPUG meeting: Tuesday 5th February Message-ID: <6E73A143-CAF5-4723-A5C0-82755470333B@tibsnjoan.co.uk> From our Google Group: The next meeting will be Tuesday 5th February, 7.30pm at RealVNC (http://tinyurl.com/realvncoffices). We normally stop about 9.30pm, and go on to the pub. This will be a "doing stuff" meeting. Any ideas welcome, otherwise we'll probably continue with something from a previous meeting, depending on who and how many turn up. Meetings after that should be: ? Tuesday 5th March, a talks meeting ? Tuesday 2nd April, a coding/doing stuff meeting ? Tuesday 7th May, another talks meeting Tibs From kris at automationlogic.com Wed Jan 30 12:51:16 2013 From: kris at automationlogic.com (Kris Saxton) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 11:51:16 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] =?windows-1252?q?TLPG_Tech_Talks=3A_Switch_to_Python_?= =?windows-1252?q?3=85_Now=85_Immediately!?= Message-ID: Hi all, Hope it's OK to post here but I wanted to let you know about the next Python Tech Talk we have coming up this month. It'll be on the 12 Feb, 6:30 at The Skills Matter eXchange, 116-120 Goswell Road, London EC1V 7DP This month's talk is by Russel Winder and it's all about Python 3. Looks like we have a commercial sponsor too so there will be pizza and beer : ) Full details here: http://www.meetup.com/The-London-Python-Group-TLPG/events/101145082/ Hope to see you there. Best, Kris -- Kris Saxton e: kris at automationlogic.com m: +447932834856 t: @KrisSaxton