From fuzzyman at voidspace.org.uk Mon Dec 6 00:49:20 2010 From: fuzzyman at voidspace.org.uk (Michael Foord) Date: Sun, 05 Dec 2010 23:49:20 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Northants Geeks December Meetups: 9th and 16th Message-ID: <4CFC2500.4090903@voidspace.org.uk> Hey all, We're having two Northants Geeks meets in December. On Thursday the 9th we're meeting, as usual in the Malt Shovel Pub at 7:30pm. On Thursday the 16th we're having a curry evening at the Tamarind restaurant on Wellingborough road. If you want to come to the meetup on the 9th then just turn up! If you want to come to the curry evening then let me know so that I can book spaces. All the best, Michael -- http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ READ CAREFULLY. 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From RCatley at fuelrecruitment.co.uk Thu Dec 9 15:38:25 2010 From: RCatley at fuelrecruitment.co.uk (Richard Catley) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 14:38:25 -0000 Subject: [python-uk] London Python Roles Message-ID: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> Dear all I'm looking for two permanent Python/Django developers to join a high profile incubated startup in London. You will have strong development skills and be happy to work with a very dedicated technical team. You will need to be London based. Salary is negotiable depending on experience but this is a great opportunity to work at the leading edge of social media. I'm more than happy to send you the full details once contact has been made. We have interview slots available so please get in touch. Kind regards Richard Richard Catley Fuel Recruitment 17, Waterloo Place Warwick Street Leamington Spa Warwickshire CV32 5LA Tel: 08712 007 007 Fax: 08712 007 008 Web: http://www.fuelrecruitment.co.uk/ http://www.linkedin.com/in/richardcatley Please click on the following link if you would like to comment on the service you have received: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/fuelquicklink_survey This electronic message contains information from Fuel Recruitment Ltd. which may be privileged and confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) or entity named above. If you are not the addressee of this email, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please e-mail the author by replying to this message and delete the material from your computer. While reasonable precautions have been taken to ensure no viruses are present in this e-mail, you are responsible for carrying out your own virus checks and Fuel Recruitment Ltd. does not accept any responsibility for loss or damage thereby arising. Fuel Recruitment is a company registered in England & Wales with Company Number 04677878 & VAT Registration 812 1032 93 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 3093 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 4128 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 24495 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 11331 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 1761 bytes Desc: not available URL: From info at timfernando.com Mon Dec 13 14:38:08 2010 From: info at timfernando.com (Tim Fernando) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 13:38:08 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] London Python Roles In-Reply-To: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> References: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> Message-ID: Hello there, I'm quite interested in the role, is there any management involved? Could you send me more information? Best wishes, Tim On 9 December 2010 14:38, Richard Catley wrote: > Dear all > > > > I?m looking for two permanent Python/Django developers to join a high > profile incubated startup in London. You will have strong development skills > and be happy to work with a very dedicated technical team. You will need to > be London based. Salary is negotiable depending on experience but this is a > great opportunity to work at the leading edge of social media. I?m more than > happy to send you the full details once contact has been made. We have > interview slots available so please get in touch. > > > > Kind regards > > Richard > > Richard Catley > *Fuel Recruitment* > 17, Waterloo Place > Warwick Street > Leamington Spa > > Warwickshire > > CV32 5LA > > Tel: 08712 007 007 > Fax: 08712 007 008 > Web: www.fuelrecruitment.co.uk > > > > > > > www.linkedin.com/in/richardcatley > > Please click on the following link if you would like to comment on the > service you have received: Fuel Survey > > *This electronic message contains information from Fuel Recruitment Ltd. > which may be privileged and confidential. The information is intended to be > for the use of the individual(s) or entity named above. If you are not the > addressee of this email, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution > or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. **If you have > received this e-mail in error please e-mail the author by replying to this > message and delete the material from your computer. While reasonable > precautions have been taken to ensure no viruses are present in this e-mail, > you are responsible for carrying out your own virus checks and Fuel > Recruitment Ltd. does not accept any responsibility for loss or damage > thereby arising.* > > Fuel Recruitment is a company registered in England & Wales with Company > Number 04677878 & VAT Registration 812 1032 93 > > > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alec.battles at gmail.com Mon Dec 13 17:31:15 2010 From: alec.battles at gmail.com (Alec Battles) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 16:31:15 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] London Python Roles In-Reply-To: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> References: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> Message-ID: Am I the only one who considers this a bit spammy? On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Richard Catley < RCatley at fuelrecruitment.co.uk> wrote: > Dear all > > > > I?m looking for two permanent Python/Django developers to join a high > profile incubated startup in London. You will have strong development skills > and be happy to work with a very dedicated technical team. You will need to > be London based. Salary is negotiable depending on experience but this is a > great opportunity to work at the leading edge of social media. I?m more than > happy to send you the full details once contact has been made. We have > interview slots available so please get in touch. > > > > Kind regards > > Richard > > Richard Catley > *Fuel Recruitment* > 17, Waterloo Place > Warwick Street > Leamington Spa > > Warwickshire > > CV32 5LA > > Tel: 08712 007 007 > Fax: 08712 007 008 > Web: www.fuelrecruitment.co.uk > > > > > > > www.linkedin.com/in/richardcatley > > Please click on the following link if you would like to comment on the > service you have received: Fuel Survey > > *This electronic message contains information from Fuel Recruitment Ltd. > which may be privileged and confidential. The information is intended to be > for the use of the individual(s) or entity named above. If you are not the > addressee of this email, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution > or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. **If you have > received this e-mail in error please e-mail the author by replying to this > message and delete the material from your computer. While reasonable > precautions have been taken to ensure no viruses are present in this e-mail, > you are responsible for carrying out your own virus checks and Fuel > Recruitment Ltd. does not accept any responsibility for loss or damage > thereby arising.* > > Fuel Recruitment is a company registered in England & Wales with Company > Number 04677878 & VAT Registration 812 1032 93 > > > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 11331 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 24495 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 3093 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 1761 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 4128 bytes Desc: not available URL: From flub at devork.be Mon Dec 13 20:21:42 2010 From: flub at devork.be (Floris Bruynooghe) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 19:21:42 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] London Python Roles In-Reply-To: References: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> Message-ID: On 13 December 2010 16:31, Alec Battles wrote: > > Am I the only one who considers this a bit spammy? Nope, I do too. > On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Richard Catley wrote: >> >> Dear all >> >> >> >> I?m looking for two permanent Python/Django developers to join a high profile incubated startup in London. You will have strong development skills and be happy to work with a very dedicated technical team. You will need to be London based. Salary is negotiable depending on experience but this is a great opportunity to work at the leading edge of social media. I?m more than happy to send you the full details once contact has been made. We have interview slots available so please get in touch. >> >> >> >> Kind regards >> >> Richard >> >> >> Richard Catley >> Fuel Recruitment >> 17, Waterloo Place >> Warwick Street >> Leamington Spa >> >> Warwickshire >> >> CV32 5LA >> >> >> Tel: 08712 007 007 >> Fax: 08712 007 008 >> Web: www.fuelrecruitment.co.uk >> >> >> >> >> >> >> www.linkedin.com/in/richardcatley >> >> Please click on the following link if you would like to comment on the service you have received: Fuel Survey >> >> This electronic message contains information from Fuel Recruitment Ltd. which may be privileged and confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) or entity named above. If you are not the addressee of this email, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please e-mail the author by replying to this message and delete the material from your computer. While reasonable precautions have been taken to ensure no viruses are present in this e-mail, you are responsible for carrying out your own virus checks and Fuel Recruitment Ltd. does not accept any responsibility for loss or damage thereby arising. >> >> Fuel Recruitment is a company registered in England & Wales with Company Number 04677878 & VAT Registration 812 1032 93 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> python-uk mailing list >> python-uk at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk >> > > > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > -- Debian GNU/Linux -- The Power of Freedom www.debian.org | www.gnu.org | www.kernel.org From funthyme at gmail.com Mon Dec 13 20:27:50 2010 From: funthyme at gmail.com (John Pinner) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 19:27:50 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] London Python Roles In-Reply-To: References: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> Message-ID: On 13 December 2010 16:31, Alec Battles wrote: > Am I the only one who considers this a bit spammy? > No ;-) On some other lists to which I subscribe, agencies are regarded as the lowest of the low and are banned. John -- > > On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Richard Catley < > RCatley at fuelrecruitment.co.uk> wrote: > >> Dear all >> >> >> >> I?m looking for two permanent Python/Django developers to join a high >> profile incubated startup in London. You will have strong development skills >> and be happy to work with a very dedicated technical team. You will need to >> be London based. Salary is negotiable depending on experience but this is a >> great opportunity to work at the leading edge of social media. I?m more than >> happy to send you the full details once contact has been made. We have >> interview slots available so please get in touch. >> >> >> >> Kind regards >> >> Richard >> >> Richard Catley >> *Fuel Recruitment* >> 17, Waterloo Place >> Warwick Street >> Leamington Spa >> >> Warwickshire >> >> CV32 5LA >> >> Tel: 08712 007 007 >> Fax: 08712 007 008 >> Web: www.fuelrecruitment.co.uk >> >> >> >> >> >> >> www.linkedin.com/in/richardcatley >> >> Please click on the following link if you would like to comment on the >> service you have received: Fuel Survey >> >> *This electronic message contains information from Fuel Recruitment Ltd. >> which may be privileged and confidential. The information is intended to be >> for the use of the individual(s) or entity named above. If you are not the >> addressee of this email, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution >> or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. **If you have >> received this e-mail in error please e-mail the author by replying to this >> message and delete the material from your computer. While reasonable >> precautions have been taken to ensure no viruses are present in this e-mail, >> you are responsible for carrying out your own virus checks and Fuel >> Recruitment Ltd. does not accept any responsibility for loss or damage >> thereby arising.* >> >> Fuel Recruitment is a company registered in England & Wales with Company >> Number 04677878 & VAT Registration 812 1032 93 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> python-uk mailing list >> python-uk at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mail at timgolden.me.uk Mon Dec 13 20:36:35 2010 From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 19:36:35 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] London Python Roles In-Reply-To: References: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> Message-ID: <4D0675C3.3020108@timgolden.me.uk> On 13/12/2010 7:27 PM, John Pinner wrote: > On 13 December 2010 16:31, Alec Battles wrote: > >> Am I the only one who considers this a bit spammy? >> > > No ;-) > > On some other lists to which I subscribe, agencies are regarded as the > lowest of the low and are banned. I'm genuinely surprised by this reaction which comes up even more forcefully on the main Python lists. It seems like a reasonable use of a (technically and geographically) focused mailing list. You might not like job agencies, but there doesn't seem to be anything intrinsically wrong with them. Am I missing something? Is some kind of Linux-culture thing which doesn't spill over...? TJG From jgustak at gmail.com Mon Dec 13 20:36:52 2010 From: jgustak at gmail.com (Jakub Gustak) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 19:36:52 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] London Python Roles In-Reply-To: References: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> Message-ID: > Am I the only one who considers this a bit spammy? +1 This is not job board. If one decides to post a job offer here better make it more precise. That's my 5p _ jlg From sebkom at nerdvana.gr Mon Dec 13 20:46:34 2010 From: sebkom at nerdvana.gr (Sebastian Komianos) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 19:46:34 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] London Python Roles In-Reply-To: References: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> Message-ID: So, if one hears about a Python job role it won't be considered nice of him to let the rest on this list know? Just asking, no irony intended. --- Sebastian Komianos http://about.me/sebkom http://twitter.com/sebkom On 13 Dec 2010, at 19:36, Jakub Gustak wrote: >> Am I the only one who considers this a bit spammy? > > +1 > > This is not job board. If one decides to post a job offer here better > make it more precise. > > That's my 5p > _ > jlg > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk From will at willmcgugan.com Mon Dec 13 21:08:30 2010 From: will at willmcgugan.com (Will McGugan) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 20:08:30 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] London Python Roles In-Reply-To: References: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> Message-ID: I don't mind jobs being posted here. Although recruiters could get annoying, because they tend not to give a way details regarding how Python is used. There could also be a dozen posts for the same job if it gets out of hand. Will On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 7:46 PM, Sebastian Komianos wrote: > So, if one hears about a Python job role it won't be considered nice of him > to let the rest on this list know? > > Just asking, no irony intended. > > > -- Will McGugan http://www.willmcgugan.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ben at creue.co.uk Mon Dec 13 21:21:03 2010 From: ben at creue.co.uk (Ben Corke) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 20:21:03 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] London Python Roles In-Reply-To: References: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> Message-ID: <1186030664529373193@unknownmsgid> As a recruiter (and a budding Python developer) who has found a few users of the UK Python List gainful employment, it would be a shame to lose the ability to post well qualified Python Jobs to users here. The response to this makes me inclined to not post jobs here for fear of a roasting. I seem to remember talk of setting up a UK Python website and Job board a few months back. This is a great idea. Has anything moved? I am happy to devote some time helping with the dev and management of a Python job board. I have designed and implemented a couple of successful small job boards in the past, so sure I can add value. Recruiters aren't all bad you know. If a job board is created, I'd be a great idea to see recruiters/employers being given feedback via a star rating system so the good agents get the respect they deserve and not so great agents are at least on their best behavior. Feel free to get in touch if you want to discuss. Ben Corke Linkedin.com/in/bencorke ben at syserve.co.uk On 13 Dec 2010, at 19:39, Jakub Gustak wrote: >> Am I the only one who considers this a bit spammy? > > +1 > > This is not job board. If one decides to post a job offer here better > make it more precise. > > That's my 5p > _ > jlg > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk From funthyme at gmail.com Mon Dec 13 21:27:59 2010 From: funthyme at gmail.com (John Pinner) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 20:27:59 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] London Python Roles In-Reply-To: <4D0675C3.3020108@timgolden.me.uk> References: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> <4D0675C3.3020108@timgolden.me.uk> Message-ID: HI, On 13 December 2010 19:36, Tim Golden wrote: > On 13/12/2010 7:27 PM, John Pinner wrote: >> >> On 13 December 2010 16:31, Alec Battles ?wrote: >> >>> Am I the only one who considers this a bit spammy? >>> >> >> No ;-) >> >> On some other lists to which I subscribe, agencies are regarded as the >> lowest of the low and are banned. > > I'm genuinely surprised by this reaction which comes up > even more forcefully on the main Python lists. It seems > like a reasonable use of a (technically and geographically) > focused mailing list. You might not like job agencies, but > there doesn't seem to be anything intrinsically wrong with > them. > > Am I missing something? Is some kind of Linux-culture thing > which doesn't spill over...? You're probably missing the employer's view, from which perspective they provide a very low level of service, often bordering on the incompetent, and at a very high price. I don't think it's anything to do with Linux culture, except that they all seem incapable of recognising that the requirements of a Linux shop differ from an MS shop, and persist in proposing people with MSCE and Access 'database' experience... And there are Python and Linux job boards... John -- From jgustak at gmail.com Mon Dec 13 21:36:55 2010 From: jgustak at gmail.com (Jakub Gustak) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 20:36:55 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] London Python Roles In-Reply-To: References: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> Message-ID: On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 8:08 PM, Will McGugan wrote: > I don't mind jobs being posted here. Although recruiters could get annoying, > because they tend not to give a way details regarding how Python is used. > There could also be a dozen posts for the same job if it gets out of hand. > Will This was my point more or less. From ntoll at ntoll.org Mon Dec 13 21:18:06 2010 From: ntoll at ntoll.org (Nicholas Tollervey) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 20:18:06 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] London Python Roles In-Reply-To: References: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> Message-ID: <75E0E66D-5466-41D3-A054-298727D188F6@ntoll.org> On 13 Dec 2010, at 16:31, Alec Battles wrote: > Am I the only one who considers this a bit spammy? Obviously not, but I can't see how this is spam. As Tim pointed out, this is a technically and geographically focussed list and this post is relevant both in terms of technology and location. Furthermore I've seen other job postings on this list go by without any comment about them being inappropriate or spammy. Besides, where else should anyone post jobs for Pythonistas in the UK..? Here would seem to be an obvious place (among several options) and it's not as if we're inundated with these types of request. Also, while I've had to deal with more than my fair share of $#!7 job agencies (see this recent tweet: http://twitter.com/#!/ntoll/status/13239003654397953 - and lets be honest here, they don't do themselves any favours in that department) I've also dealt with some really great ones (honest!). If you've come to the conclusion that this is spam simply because it is from an agency then I'm afraid you're simply being prejudiced. Nicholas. > > On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Richard Catley wrote: > Dear all > > > I?m looking for two permanent Python/Django developers to join a high profile incubated startup in London. You will have strong development skills and be happy to work with a very dedicated technical team. You will need to be London based. Salary is negotiable depending on experience but this is a great opportunity to work at the leading edge of social media. I?m more than happy to send you the full details once contact has been made. We have interview slots available so please get in touch. > > > Kind regards > > Richard > > > Richard Catley > Fuel Recruitment > 17, Waterloo Place > Warwick Street > Leamington Spa > Warwickshire > CV32 5LA > > Tel: 08712 007 007 > Fax: 08712 007 008 > Web: www.fuelrecruitment.co.uk > > > > > > > > > www.linkedin.com/in/richardcatley > > Please click on the following link if you would like to comment on the service you have received: Fuel Survey > > This electronic message contains information from Fuel Recruitment Ltd. which may be privileged and confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) or entity named above. If you are not the addressee of this email, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please e-mail the author by replying to this message and delete the material from your computer. While reasonable precautions have been taken to ensure no viruses are present in this e-mail, you are responsible for carrying out your own virus checks and Fuel Recruitment Ltd. does not accept any responsibility for loss or damage thereby arising. > Fuel Recruitment is a company registered in England & Wales with Company Number 04677878 & VAT Registration 812 1032 93 > > > > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > > > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk From ntoll at ntoll.org Mon Dec 13 22:00:34 2010 From: ntoll at ntoll.org (Nicholas Tollervey) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 21:00:34 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] London Python Roles In-Reply-To: References: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> <4D0675C3.3020108@timgolden.me.uk> Message-ID: On 13 Dec 2010, at 20:27, John Pinner wrote: > HI, > > On 13 December 2010 19:36, Tim Golden wrote: >> On 13/12/2010 7:27 PM, John Pinner wrote: >>> >>> On 13 December 2010 16:31, Alec Battles wrote: >>> >>>> Am I the only one who considers this a bit spammy? >>>> >>> >>> No ;-) >>> >>> On some other lists to which I subscribe, agencies are regarded as the >>> lowest of the low and are banned. >> >> I'm genuinely surprised by this reaction which comes up >> even more forcefully on the main Python lists. It seems >> like a reasonable use of a (technically and geographically) >> focused mailing list. You might not like job agencies, but >> there doesn't seem to be anything intrinsically wrong with >> them. >> >> Am I missing something? Is some kind of Linux-culture thing >> which doesn't spill over...? > > You're probably missing the employer's view, from which perspective > they provide a very low level of service, often bordering on the > incompetent, and at a very high price. > > I don't think it's anything to do with Linux culture, except that they > all seem incapable of recognising that the requirements of a Linux > shop differ from an MS shop, and persist in proposing people with MSCE > and Access 'database' experience... > > And there are Python and Linux job boards... John, There's nothing wrong with having both a Microsoft MSC* qualification or Access 'database' experience. I have both. :-P Perhaps you should change the agency you use..? :-) Nicholas. > > John > -- > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk From gurgeh73 at free.fr Mon Dec 13 22:17:14 2010 From: gurgeh73 at free.fr (richard barran) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 21:17:14 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] London Python Roles In-Reply-To: <4D0675C3.3020108@timgolden.me.uk> References: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> <4D0675C3.3020108@timgolden.me.uk> Message-ID: <5533C50E-CA8D-47AF-B7BC-EBB81655713B@free.fr> On 13 Dec 2010, at 19:36, Tim Golden wrote: > I'm genuinely surprised by this reaction which comes up > even more forcefully on the main Python lists. It seems > like a reasonable use of a (technically and geographically) > focused mailing list. You might not like job agencies, but > there doesn't seem to be anything intrinsically wrong with > them. > > Am I missing something? Is some kind of Linux-culture thing > which doesn't spill over...? +1 The Python community is still very small; I was surprised at the last Europython to discover that most of the people present did not earn a wage from Python. Anything that helps more pythonistas earn a living from their passion is good IMO. While I can understand strong opposition on the main Python list (which is about the language itself), python-uk is a low-volume list for discussions about the Python *community* in this country... and jobs are a part of that. Obviously, once tens of thousands of UK devs earn their living from Python, then I will join the "NO" camp :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tartley at tartley.com Mon Dec 13 22:44:28 2010 From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 21:44:28 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] London Python Roles Message-ID: The list wil get used for what it ends up getting used for, by which I mean recruiters are part of the community and will have to decide for themselves whether they want to post here. But for what it's worth, I personally don't like job postings on the Python-uk list, and I applaud the idea to create a separate UK jobs list. Jonathan Hartley http://tartley.com richard barran wrote: >On 13 Dec 2010, at 19:36, Tim Golden wrote: >> I'm genuinely surprised by this reaction which comes up >> even more forcefully on the main Python lists. It seems >> like a reasonable use of a (technically and geographically) >> focused mailing list. You might not like job agencies, but >> there doesn't seem to be anything intrinsically wrong with >> them. >> >> Am I missing something? Is some kind of Linux-culture thing >> which doesn't spill over...? > >+1 >The Python community is still very small; I was surprised at the last Europython to discover that most of the people present did not earn a wage from Python. Anything that helps more pythonistas earn a living from their passion is good IMO. >While I can understand strong opposition on the main Python list (which is about the language itself), python-uk is a low-volume list for discussions about the Python *community* in this country... and jobs are a part of that. >Obviously, once tens of thousands of UK devs earn their living from Python, then I will join the "NO" camp :-) > > > >_______________________________________________ >python-uk mailing list >python-uk at python.org >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk From David_J_Pearson at uk.ibm.com Mon Dec 13 23:02:36 2010 From: David_J_Pearson at uk.ibm.com (David J Pearson) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 22:02:36 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] AUTO: David J Pearson Has Limited Access To Mail (returning 05/01/2011) Message-ID: I am out of the office until 05/01/2011. I am currently travelling and will also be away on holiday over the Christmas period. I will read / respond to your email as soon as I can - this may take several days. If you need to contact me urgently, please send SMS text message to my mobile phone (number on my bluepages record). Thanks David J Pearson MBCS CITP CEng MIET Solution Architect, Lotus Software Services - NE IOT IBM Lotus Symphony Services Technical Lead Lotus Software, IBM United Kingdom Ltd Mailto:David_J_Pearson at uk.ibm.com Note: This is an automated response to your message "python-uk Digest, Vol 88, Issue 5" sent on 13/12/10 20:48:13. This is the only notification you will receive while this person is away. From michael at grazebrook.com Mon Dec 13 20:20:13 2010 From: michael at grazebrook.com (Michael Grazebrook) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 19:20:13 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] London Python Roles In-Reply-To: References: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> Message-ID: <4D0671ED.1050807@grazebrook.com> I too feel it's inappropriate. A request direct from a client/employer would I think be OK, especially if the client were a python enthusiast. But this forum is inappropriate for agencies. On 13/12/2010 16:31, Alec Battles wrote: > Am I the only one who considers this a bit spammy? > > On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Richard Catley > > > wrote: > > Dear all > > I'm looking for two permanent Python/Django developers to join a > high profile incubated startup in London. You will have strong > development skills and be happy to work with a very dedicated > technical team. You will need to be London based. Salary is > negotiable depending on experience but this is a great opportunity > to work at the leading edge of social media. I'm more than happy > to send you the full details once contact has been made. We have > interview slots available so please get in touch. > > Kind regards > > Richard > > Richard Catley > *Fuel Recruitment* > 17, Waterloo Place > Warwick Street > Leamington Spa > > Warwickshire > > CV32 5LA > > Tel: 08712 007 007 > Fax: 08712 007 008 > Web: www.fuelrecruitment.co.uk > www.linkedin.com/in/richardcatley > > Please click on the following link if you would like to comment on > the service you have received: Fuel Survey > > //This electronic message contains information from Fuel > Recruitment Ltd. which may be privileged and confidential. The > information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) or > entity named above. If you are not the addressee of this email, be > aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the > contents of this information is prohibited. //|/If you have > received this e-mail in error please e-mail the author by replying > to this message and delete the material from your computer. While > reasonable precautions have been taken to ensure no viruses are > present in this e-mail, you are responsible for carrying out your > own virus checks and Fuel Recruitment Ltd. does not accept any > responsibility for loss or damage thereby arising./| > > |Fuel Recruitment is a company registered in England & Wales with > Company Number 04677878 & VAT Registration 812 1032 93| > > > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > > > > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3312 - Release Date: 12/12/10 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 3093 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 4128 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 24495 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 11331 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 1761 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mike.pentney at physics.org Tue Dec 14 10:48:18 2010 From: mike.pentney at physics.org (Mike Pentney) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 09:48:18 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] (Off topic) Recommended graphic designers? Message-ID: <4D073D62.4040606@physics.org> Dear Pythonistas, Apologies for the off-topic posting, but can anyone recommend a (preferably UK based) graphics design shop to provide a bit of sparkle for various django webapps I'm developing? I don't need anything fancy (i.e. Javascript) - just some nice images, fonts and colours, but it would be useful if they knew a bit about django templates as well as css. It's for some weekend projects so my budget is not infinite, but it's not zero either :-) Please reply off-list to me at mike.pentney at physics.org to keep the noise on this list to a minimum... Many thanks, Mike. From katie at coderstack.co.uk Tue Dec 14 16:18:45 2010 From: katie at coderstack.co.uk (Katie T) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 15:18:45 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] London Python Roles In-Reply-To: <1186030664529373193@unknownmsgid> References: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> <1186030664529373193@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 8:21 PM, Ben Corke wrote: > I am happy to devote some time helping with the dev and management ?of > a Python job board. I have designed and implemented a couple of > successful small job boards in the past, so sure I can add value. There already is a python job board: http://www.python.org/community/jobs/ (International but it covers the UK) Given there seems to be a split in opinions why not create a python-uk-jobs mailing list that way people who want to subscribe to Python jobs can do so, without it bothering everyone else. Katie -- CoderStack http://www.coderstack.co.uk The Software Developer Job Board From renesd at gmail.com Tue Dec 14 16:21:09 2010 From: renesd at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Dudfield?=) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 15:21:09 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] London Python Roles In-Reply-To: References: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> Message-ID: Hi, Not really. Posting jobs is in the description of the list - so it's not unsolicited. "This list is to help UK Python users to form a community, arrange events, advertise help or jobs wanted or sought and generally chat." Recruiters have been posting since 2001, and only a maximum of a few times a year/month. cu. On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Alec Battles wrote: > Am I the only one who considers this a bit spammy? > > On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Richard Catley < > RCatley at fuelrecruitment.co.uk> wrote: > >> Dear all >> >> >> >> I?m looking for two permanent Python/Django developers to join a high >> profile incubated startup in London. You will have strong development skills >> and be happy to work with a very dedicated technical team. You will need to >> be London based. Salary is negotiable depending on experience but this is a >> great opportunity to work at the leading edge of social media. I?m more than >> happy to send you the full details once contact has been made. We have >> interview slots available so please get in touch. >> >> >> >> Kind regards >> >> Richard >> >> Richard Catley >> *Fuel Recruitment* >> 17, Waterloo Place >> Warwick Street >> Leamington Spa >> >> Warwickshire >> >> CV32 5LA >> >> Tel: 08712 007 007 >> Fax: 08712 007 008 >> Web: www.fuelrecruitment.co.uk >> >> >> >> >> >> >> www.linkedin.com/in/richardcatley >> >> Please click on the following link if you would like to comment on the >> service you have received: Fuel Survey >> >> *This electronic message contains information from Fuel Recruitment Ltd. >> which may be privileged and confidential. The information is intended to be >> for the use of the individual(s) or entity named above. If you are not the >> addressee of this email, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution >> or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. **If you have >> received this e-mail in error please e-mail the author by replying to this >> message and delete the material from your computer. While reasonable >> precautions have been taken to ensure no viruses are present in this e-mail, >> you are responsible for carrying out your own virus checks and Fuel >> Recruitment Ltd. does not accept any responsibility for loss or damage >> thereby arising.* >> >> Fuel Recruitment is a company registered in England & Wales with Company >> Number 04677878 & VAT Registration 812 1032 93 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> python-uk mailing list >> python-uk at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ben at creue.co.uk Tue Dec 14 17:06:32 2010 From: ben at creue.co.uk (Ben Corke) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 16:06:32 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] London Python Roles In-Reply-To: References: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> <1186030664529373193@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <-5487449234256640524@unknownmsgid> > There already is a python job board: > > http://www.python.org/community/jobs/ > > (International but it covers the UK) > > Given there seems to be a split in opinions why not create a > python-uk-jobs mailing list that way people who want to subscribe to > Python jobs can do so, without it bothering everyone else. > > > Katie Indeed, I've found a number of great Python Developers from the python.org /jobs site, it's great. However, wasn't the point to create a revenue stream that will benefit the Python UK community? Anyway, not sure there are enough UK jobs out there to justify a UK board currently, but I'm seeing Python as part of a skillset becoming more and more popular over the last few years, especially in the embedded sector. Ben > On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 8:21 PM, Ben Corke wrote: >> I am happy to devote some time helping with the dev and management of >> a Python job board. I have designed and implemented a couple of >> successful small job boards in the past, so sure I can add value. > > There already is a python job board: > > http://www.python.org/community/jobs/ > > (International but it covers the UK) > > Given there seems to be a split in opinions why not create a > python-uk-jobs mailing list that way people who want to subscribe to > Python jobs can do so, without it bothering everyone else. > > > Katie > -- > CoderStack > http://www.coderstack.co.uk > The Software Developer Job Board > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk From rampant at gmail.com Tue Dec 14 23:18:07 2010 From: rampant at gmail.com (Douglas Livingstone) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 22:18:07 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] London Python Roles In-Reply-To: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> References: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> Message-ID: <5EADDC38-2568-4784-8A47-F4F93B90B013@gmail.com> Richard, That's quite a reaction you have received on the python-uk mailing list. I'm interested in Python opportunities in London, could you give me more details about the positions you are advertising? Regards, Douglas On 9 Dec 2010, at 14:38, Richard Catley wrote: > Dear all > > I?m looking for two permanent Python/Django developers to join a high profile incubated startup in London. You will have strong development skills and be happy to work with a very dedicated technical team. You will need to be London based. Salary is negotiable depending on experience but this is a great opportunity to work at the leading edge of social media. I?m more than happy to send you the full details once contact has been made. We have interview slots available so please get in touch. > > Kind regards > Richard > > Richard Catley > Fuel Recruitment > 17, Waterloo Place > Warwick Street > Leamington Spa > Warwickshire > CV32 5LA > > Tel: 08712 007 007 > Fax: 08712 007 008 > Web: www.fuelrecruitment.co.uk > > > > > > > > > www.linkedin.com/in/richardcatley > > Please click on the following link if you would like to comment on the service you have received: Fuel Survey > > This electronic message contains information from Fuel Recruitment Ltd. which may be privileged and confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) or entity named above. If you are not the addressee of this email, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please e-mail the author by replying to this message and delete the material from your computer. While reasonable precautions have been taken to ensure no viruses are present in this e-mail, you are responsible for carrying out your own virus checks and Fuel Recruitment Ltd. does not accept any responsibility for loss or damage thereby arising. > Fuel Recruitment is a company registered in England & Wales with Company Number 04677878 & VAT Registration 812 1032 93 > > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From katie at coderstack.co.uk Wed Dec 15 01:55:10 2010 From: katie at coderstack.co.uk (Katie T) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 00:55:10 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] London Python Roles In-Reply-To: <-5487449234256640524@unknownmsgid> References: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> <1186030664529373193@unknownmsgid> <-5487449234256640524@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Ben Corke wrote: > > Anyway, not sure there are enough UK jobs out there to justify a UK > board currently, but I'm seeing Python as part of a skillset becoming > more and more popular over the last few years, especially in the > embedded sector. I would have said most of the growth is in web dev. Certainly from the django events I've been to the majority of django devs seem to be doing it professionally. Katie -- CoderStack http://www.coderstack.co.uk/python-jobs The Software Developer Job Board From matth at netsight.co.uk Wed Dec 15 12:57:13 2010 From: matth at netsight.co.uk (Matt Hamilton) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 11:57:13 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] London Python Roles In-Reply-To: References: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> <1186030664529373193@unknownmsgid> <-5487449234256640524@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: On 15 Dec 2010, at 00:55, Katie T wrote: > On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Ben Corke wrote: >> >> Anyway, not sure there are enough UK jobs out there to justify a UK >> board currently, but I'm seeing Python as part of a skillset becoming >> more and more popular over the last few years, especially in the >> embedded sector. > > I would have said most of the growth is in web dev. Certainly from the > django events I've been to the majority of django devs seem to be > doing it professionally. We've also seen it (as a python web dev company) increase quite a bit in the web field. Another big area I keep seeing python jobs advertised are in the financial services industry. Just as engineers used fortran and business people used cobol, I think financial services are using python for a good language to write calculations/simulations of financial models. -Matt -- Matt Hamilton matth at netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Business Vision on the Internet http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development and Consulting | Co-location | Hosting From michael at grazebrook.com Wed Dec 15 13:45:40 2010 From: michael at grazebrook.com (Michael Grazebrook) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 12:45:40 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] London Python Roles In-Reply-To: References: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> <1186030664529373193@unknownmsgid> <-5487449234256640524@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <4D08B874.6060706@grazebrook.com> I work in the financial sector. Python is definately increasing. Some systems are being written in Python, but that's not its main use. Certainly not for calculations and financial models, where they normally have to be very fast. It's popular as a repacement for Perl, for example in batch automation. I've also used it for reporting: its excellent ability to interface to libraries means you can drive Excel (or most things .Net) from Python. I even used it to link to Bloomberg once, creating a framework to get the data to test some finanical models. Report Lab does a fair bit of work in the financial sector in a rather different field. Little in the web field in Finance: maybe that's just my persoanl experience. On 15/12/2010 11:57, Matt Hamilton wrote: > We've also seen it (as a python web dev company) increase quite a bit in the web field. Another big area I keep seeing python jobs advertised are in the financial services industry. Just as engineers used fortran and business people used cobol, I think financial services are using python for a good language to write calculations/simulations of financial models. From tartley at tartley.com Wed Dec 15 15:02:37 2010 From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 14:02:37 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] London Python Roles In-Reply-To: <4D08B874.6060706@grazebrook.com> References: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> <1186030664529373193@unknownmsgid> <-5487449234256640524@unknownmsgid> <4D08B874.6060706@grazebrook.com> Message-ID: <4D08CA7D.7020709@tartley.com> Hey, Interesting to hear that, thanks Micaheal. Can I ask you to clarify one thing you mentioned? My understanding was that speed of numerical modelling was only of such vital import if you are doing low-latency automated trading, in the sort of scenario where you need to be on a box placed on a LAN in proximity to the trading server, in order to make sub-millisecond trades. On the other hand, if you're running across the internet, then any slowdown due to using Python verses another language would be vastly swamped by network and other IO delays. Am I very much mistaken? Thanks for sharing the benefit of your experience. Jonathan On 15/12/2010 12:45, Michael Grazebrook wrote: > I work in the financial sector. Python is definately increasing. > > Some systems are being written in Python, but that's not its main use. > Certainly not for calculations and financial models, where they > normally have to be very fast. > > It's popular as a repacement for Perl, for example in batch > automation. I've also used it for reporting: its excellent ability to > interface to libraries means you can drive Excel (or most things .Net) > from Python. I even used it to link to Bloomberg once, creating a > framework to get the data to test some finanical models. > > Report Lab does a fair bit of work in the financial sector in a rather > different field. > > Little in the web field in Finance: maybe that's just my persoanl > experience. > > On 15/12/2010 11:57, Matt Hamilton wrote: >> We've also seen it (as a python web dev company) increase quite a bit >> in the web field. Another big area I keep seeing python jobs >> advertised are in the financial services industry. Just as engineers >> used fortran and business people used cobol, I think financial >> services are using python for a good language to write >> calculations/simulations of financial models. > > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk -- Jonathan Hartley Made of meat. http://tartley.com tartley at tartley.com +44 7737 062 225 twitter/skype: tartley From dan.fairs at gmail.com Wed Dec 15 16:45:03 2010 From: dan.fairs at gmail.com (Dan Fairs) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 15:45:03 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Python in finance (was Re: London Python Roles) In-Reply-To: <4D08B874.6060706@grazebrook.com> References: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> <1186030664529373193@unknownmsgid> <-5487449234256640524@unknownmsgid> <4D08B874.6060706@grazebrook.com> Message-ID: <255E30D4-36D3-4F73-9485-DA5758631CFB@gmail.com> > It's popular as a repacement for Perl, for example in batch automation. I've also used it for reporting: its excellent ability to interface to libraries means you can drive Excel (or most things .Net) from Python. I even used it to link to Bloomberg once, creating a framework to get the data to test some finanical models. In my previous life in financials, Python was being used due to the ease of embedding it in other systems, and presenting a simple Python 'macro' language to users. Can't say much more I'm afraid... It was also used on the web side internally. Cheers, Dan -- Dan Fairs | dan.fairs at gmail.com | www.fezconsulting.com From katie at coderstack.co.uk Wed Dec 15 21:10:48 2010 From: katie at coderstack.co.uk (Katie T) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 20:10:48 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] London Python Roles In-Reply-To: <4D08CA7D.7020709@tartley.com> References: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> <1186030664529373193@unknownmsgid> <-5487449234256640524@unknownmsgid> <4D08B874.6060706@grazebrook.com> <4D08CA7D.7020709@tartley.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 2:02 PM, Jonathan Hartley wrote: > Can I ask you to clarify one thing you mentioned? My understanding was that > speed of numerical modelling was only of such vital import if you are doing > low-latency automated trading, in the sort of scenario where you need to be > on a box placed on a LAN in proximity to the trading server, in order to > make sub-millisecond trades. On the other hand, if you're running across the > internet, then any slowdown due to using Python verses another language > would be vastly swamped by network and other IO delays. Am I very much > mistaken? You're right that a lot of financial calculations are used in areas outside of low-latency, but even for end of day batch procedures these things need to be optimized purely because we're talking about huge amounts of computation here. Calculations that can take hours even in fortran or c. Plus due to the large amount of legacy libraries in Fortran/C++ it tends to mean those languages are favoured even when speed isn't critical. Most Python usage I've seen in finance has been as a glue language often replacing Perl or Bash scripts or to do rapid prototyping, especially in conjunction with tools like QuickFix. Katie -- CoderStack http://www.coderstack.co.uk/python-jobs The Software Developer Job Board From andy at reportlab.com Thu Dec 16 00:02:01 2010 From: andy at reportlab.com (Andy Robinson) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 23:02:01 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] London Python Roles In-Reply-To: <4D08CA7D.7020709@tartley.com> References: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> <1186030664529373193@unknownmsgid> <-5487449234256640524@unknownmsgid> <4D08B874.6060706@grazebrook.com> <4D08CA7D.7020709@tartley.com> Message-ID: > Report Lab does a fair bit of work in the financial sector in a rather different field. Sorry, the light took a while to reach the batcave tonight... I was pushing Python in finance back in 1997/8, and there have been many, many people using it (usually under the radar at first) in the City for a long time. In the old days it excelled at gluing systems together, scripting other peoples' C code, and prototyping algorithms. There were many times when people needed a solution faster than "IT" could organise it, and being freely available and able to work with Excel, it helped a lot of quants. Now, of course, Python is mainstream, and other languages have got a lot better at the 'glue' and web stuff and caught up to some degree. On 15 December 2010 14:02, Jonathan Hartley wrote: > On the other hand, if you're running across the > internet, then any slowdown due to using Python verses another language > would be vastly swamped by network and other IO delays. Am I very much > mistaken? There are no general answers to that question. There are indeed many cases where people needlessly worry about the language when network and IO dominate. There are also lots of cases where you want to do some kind of "atomic job" on one machine, and find it's an order of magnitude too slow in a high level language. There are some "Monte Carlo" approaches to pricing securities which have no analytic solution; and in the retail sector it's fashionable now to show 'clouds of outcomes' about where your pension might end up, needing 10000 random walks to plot a chart and spit out a 2-3 page PDF including it. Two of the beauties of Python in this area are that (a) you can afford to rewrite your algorithm several times and be sure it's the best approach, and (b) if you really need to, it's easy to shift the 'inner loops' into C. Putting it in perspective, I even know some people in the City who find hand-coded C too slow for their simulations, and who are basically writing microcode for chips in order to put a supercomputer under their desk! The bigger question is whether all this horsepower ultimately leads to better investment performance. I will stay out of that one ;-) -- Andy Robinson ReportLab From robinshields at gmail.com Thu Dec 16 12:10:06 2010 From: robinshields at gmail.com (Robin Shields) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 11:10:06 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] London Python Roles In-Reply-To: References: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> <1186030664529373193@unknownmsgid> <-5487449234256640524@unknownmsgid> <4D08B874.6060706@grazebrook.com> <4D08CA7D.7020709@tartley.com> Message-ID: This is all fascinating stuff, I've learned a lot. If this is the outcome of recruiters posting on the list, I'm all for it! On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Andy Robinson wrote: > > Report Lab does a fair bit of work in the financial sector in a rather > different field. > Sorry, the light took a while to reach the batcave tonight... > > I was pushing Python in finance back in 1997/8, and there have been > many, many people using it (usually under the radar at first) in the > City for a long time. In the old days it excelled at gluing systems > together, scripting other peoples' C code, and prototyping algorithms. > There were many times when people needed a solution faster than "IT" > could organise it, and being freely available and able to work with > Excel, it helped a lot of quants. > > Now, of course, Python is mainstream, and other languages have got a > lot better at the 'glue' and web stuff and caught up to some degree. > > > On 15 December 2010 14:02, Jonathan Hartley wrote: > > On the other hand, if you're running across the > > internet, then any slowdown due to using Python verses another language > > would be vastly swamped by network and other IO delays. Am I very much > > mistaken? > > There are no general answers to that question. There are indeed many > cases where people needlessly worry about the language when network > and IO dominate. There are also lots of cases where you want to do > some kind of "atomic job" on one machine, and find it's an order of > magnitude too slow in a high level language. There are some "Monte > Carlo" approaches to pricing securities which have no analytic > solution; and in the retail sector it's fashionable now to show > 'clouds of outcomes' about where your pension might end up, needing > 10000 random walks to plot a chart and spit out a 2-3 page PDF > including it. > > Two of the beauties of Python in this area are that (a) you can afford > to rewrite your algorithm several times and be sure it's the best > approach, and (b) if you really need to, it's easy to shift the 'inner > loops' into C. > > Putting it in perspective, I even know some people in the City who > find hand-coded C too slow for their simulations, and who are > basically writing microcode for chips in order to put a supercomputer > under their desk! > > The bigger question is whether all this horsepower ultimately leads to > better investment performance. I will stay out of that one ;-) > > > -- > Andy Robinson > ReportLab > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andy at reportlab.com Thu Dec 16 12:34:54 2010 From: andy at reportlab.com (Andy Robinson) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 11:34:54 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] London Python Roles In-Reply-To: References: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> <1186030664529373193@unknownmsgid> <-5487449234256640524@unknownmsgid> <4D08B874.6060706@grazebrook.com> <4D08CA7D.7020709@tartley.com> Message-ID: I used to be the original list moderator. Many years back, I think we agreed that recruiters in moderation were OK, and I accept that some firms have reasons not to advertise directly. I have always felt that if people wanted to discuss technical stuff, they would tend to use comp.lang.python, StackOverflow or whatever to get the widest input. A UK list is pretty much here for meetups, local (including City) news and jobs, and maybe chitchat about 'who is using what'. The only possible worry might be that a Python employer might want to stop his employees seeing ads for other Python jobs nearby. On the other hand, if you're that paranoid or your developers are too dumb to find the Python Job Board, you're probably doomed anyway ;-) I would suggest that if any future recruiter were to start 'trawling for CVs' or overposting (and nothing I have seen here has worried me on that front), people reply with a '-1'; and if we get more than half a dozen the moderators can contact that recruiter and ask them nicely to stop, then ban if they persist. -- Andy Robinson ReportLab From jjl at pobox.com Thu Dec 16 21:30:12 2010 From: jjl at pobox.com (John J Lee) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 20:30:12 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [python-uk] London Python Roles In-Reply-To: References: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> <1186030664529373193@unknownmsgid> <-5487449234256640524@unknownmsgid> <4D08B874.6060706@grazebrook.com> <4D08CA7D.7020709@tartley.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Dec 2010, Andy Robinson wrote: [...] > I have always felt that if people wanted to discuss technical stuff, > they would tend to use comp.lang.python, StackOverflow or whatever to > get the widest input. A UK list is pretty much here for meetups, > local (including City) news and jobs, and maybe chitchat about 'who is > using what'. [...] +1 John From theology at gmail.com Fri Dec 17 09:49:18 2010 From: theology at gmail.com (Zeth) Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 08:49:18 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] London Python Roles In-Reply-To: References: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> Message-ID: On 13 December 2010 16:31, Alec Battles wrote: > > Am I the only one who considers this a bit spammy? No I also consider it more spam than ham when it is a vague advert rather than details for a real job. If it doesn't have real details (precise location, industry, salary in pounds, etc) then it is as likely be to fishing to fill up a client database that can be sold to employers later, than a real job that exists now. I have no objections when it is a real company posting directly with real details. From ross.lawley at gmail.com Fri Dec 17 09:56:34 2010 From: ross.lawley at gmail.com (Ross Lawley) Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 08:56:34 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] London Python Roles In-Reply-To: References: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> Message-ID: Personally, I would have scanned and then ignored the message had it not had 31 replies!! On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 8:49 AM, Zeth wrote: > On 13 December 2010 16:31, Alec Battles wrote: > > > > Am I the only one who considers this a bit spammy? > > No I also consider it more spam than ham when it is a vague advert > rather than details for a real job. If it doesn't have real details > (precise location, industry, salary in pounds, etc) then it is as > likely be to fishing to fill up a client database that can be sold to > employers later, than a real job that exists now. > > I have no objections when it is a real company posting directly with > real details. > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From theology at gmail.com Fri Dec 17 10:10:00 2010 From: theology at gmail.com (Zeth) Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 09:10:00 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] London Python Roles In-Reply-To: References: <5BDE722A76A0714EBFAD096977955470013DE9AA@server001.fuelrecruitment.local> Message-ID: On 17 December 2010 08:56, Ross Lawley wrote: > Personally, I would have scanned and then ignored the message had it not had > 31 replies!! The irony further underlined by you adding another (and then me too!). Merry Christmas to all UK Pythonistas! From rami.chowdhury at gmail.com Sun Dec 19 16:30:16 2010 From: rami.chowdhury at gmail.com (Rami Chowdhury) Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 15:30:16 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] OT: Looking for an iPhone dev Message-ID: <201012191530.16965.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com> Hey everyone, I know this isn't the forum for this, but I'm looking for an iPhone dev for a potential startup opportunity -- if anyone could give me tips on where to find one, I'd really appreciate it. Cheers, Rami ---- Rami Chowdhury "A mind all logic is like a knife all blade. It makes the hand bleed that uses it." -- Rabindranath Tagore +44-7581-430-517 / +88-01819-245544 /+1-408-597-7068 From rcumins at gmail.com Sun Dec 19 17:05:21 2010 From: rcumins at gmail.com (Russell Cumins) Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 16:05:21 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] OT: Looking for an iPhone dev In-Reply-To: <201012191530.16965.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com> References: <201012191530.16965.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com> Message-ID: -1 On 19 December 2010 15:30, Rami Chowdhury wrote: > > Hey everyone, > > I know this isn't the forum for this, but I'm looking for an iPhone dev for > a > potential startup opportunity -- if anyone could give me tips on where to > find > one, I'd really appreciate it. > > Cheers, > Rami > > ---- > Rami Chowdhury > "A mind all logic is like a knife all blade. It makes the hand bleed > that uses it." -- Rabindranath Tagore > +44-7581-430-517 / +88-01819-245544 /+1-408-597-7068 > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dw at botanicus.net Sun Dec 19 21:47:36 2010 From: dw at botanicus.net (David Wilson) Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 20:47:36 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] OT: Looking for an iPhone dev In-Reply-To: <201012191530.16965.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com> References: <201012191530.16965.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 19 December 2010 15:30, Rami Chowdhury wrote: > > Hey everyone, > > I know this isn't the forum for this, but I'm looking for an iPhone dev for a > potential startup opportunity -- if anyone could give me tips on where to find > one, I'd really appreciate it. > I hear if you type "LONDON IPHONE GROUP" into THE GOOGLE and click "IM FEELING LUCKY" USING A MOUSE OR ALTERNATIVELY USING YOUR KEYBOARD (ADVANCED USERS ONLY) you may find A RELEVANT FORUM. *Grr* David > Cheers, > Rami > > ---- > Rami Chowdhury > "A mind all logic is like a knife all blade. It makes the hand bleed > that uses it." -- Rabindranath Tagore > +44-7581-430-517 / +88-01819-245544 /+1-408-597-7068 > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > From jkp at kirkconsulting.co.uk Sun Dec 19 22:22:43 2010 From: jkp at kirkconsulting.co.uk (Jamie Kirkpatrick) Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 22:22:43 +0100 Subject: [python-uk] OT: Looking for an iPhone dev In-Reply-To: References: <201012191530.16965.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com> Message-ID: There are getting to be too many of these kinda posts for sure. On 19 December 2010 21:47, David Wilson wrote: > On 19 December 2010 15:30, Rami Chowdhury > wrote: > > > > Hey everyone, > > > > I know this isn't the forum for this, but I'm looking for an iPhone dev > for a > > potential startup opportunity -- if anyone could give me tips on where to > find > > one, I'd really appreciate it. > > > > I hear if you type "LONDON IPHONE GROUP" into THE GOOGLE and click "IM > FEELING LUCKY" USING A MOUSE OR ALTERNATIVELY USING YOUR KEYBOARD > (ADVANCED USERS ONLY) you may find A RELEVANT FORUM. > > *Grr* > > > David > > > Cheers, > > Rami > > > > ---- > > Rami Chowdhury > > "A mind all logic is like a knife all blade. It makes the hand bleed > > that uses it." -- Rabindranath Tagore > > +44-7581-430-517 / +88-01819-245544 /+1-408-597-7068 > > _______________________________________________ > > python-uk mailing list > > python-uk at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > > > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paddy at paddy-dempster.org.uk Mon Dec 20 02:19:39 2010 From: paddy at paddy-dempster.org.uk (Patrick Dempster) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 01:19:39 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] OT: Looking for an iPhone dev In-Reply-To: References: <201012191530.16965.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com> Message-ID: Perhaps its time for the list admin's, start blocking those who post these "job" adverts? python jobs I can sort of understand but this is getting silly. Just a thought. P. On 19 December 2010 21:22, Jamie Kirkpatrick wrote: > There are getting to be too many of these kinda posts for sure. > > > On 19 December 2010 21:47, David Wilson wrote: > >> On 19 December 2010 15:30, Rami Chowdhury >> wrote: >> > >> > Hey everyone, >> > >> > I know this isn't the forum for this, but I'm looking for an iPhone dev >> for a >> > potential startup opportunity -- if anyone could give me tips on where >> to find >> > one, I'd really appreciate it. >> > >> >> I hear if you type "LONDON IPHONE GROUP" into THE GOOGLE and click "IM >> FEELING LUCKY" USING A MOUSE OR ALTERNATIVELY USING YOUR KEYBOARD >> (ADVANCED USERS ONLY) you may find A RELEVANT FORUM. >> >> *Grr* >> >> >> David >> >> > Cheers, >> > Rami >> > >> > ---- >> > Rami Chowdhury >> > "A mind all logic is like a knife all blade. It makes the hand bleed >> > that uses it." -- Rabindranath Tagore >> > +44-7581-430-517 / +88-01819-245544 /+1-408-597-7068 >> > _______________________________________________ >> > python-uk mailing list >> > python-uk at python.org >> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> python-uk mailing list >> python-uk at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk >> > > > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > > -- Regards, Patrick If it happens once, it's a bug. If it happens twice, it's a feature. If it happens more than twice, it's a design philosophy. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From simon at brunningonline.net Mon Dec 20 09:05:35 2010 From: simon at brunningonline.net (Simon Brunning) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 08:05:35 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] OT: Looking for an iPhone dev In-Reply-To: References: <201012191530.16965.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 20 December 2010 01:19, Patrick Dempster wrote: > Perhaps its time for the list admin's, start blocking those who post these > "job" adverts? python jobs I can sort of understand but this is getting > silly. I OKed the Python job post recently, 'cos it looked Python related to my cursory eye. I didn't really feel there was any consensus as to whether that's what people want. The iPhone thing was clearly off topic, but never came up for moderation since it came from a list member. Don't urge me to be too severe; posts with inappropriate apostrophes would be the first to go. ;-) -- Cheers, Simon B. From andy at reportlab.com Mon Dec 20 09:36:20 2010 From: andy at reportlab.com (Andy Robinson) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 08:36:20 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] OT: Looking for an iPhone dev In-Reply-To: References: <201012191530.16965.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 20 December 2010 08:05, Simon Brunning wrote: > On 20 December 2010 01:19, Patrick Dempster wrote: >> Perhaps its time for the list admin's, start blocking those who post these >> "job" adverts? python jobs I can sort of understand but this is getting >> silly. Or, we could take another tack: why don't the list members start a few more "on-topic" discussions to restore the balance? Hopefully things are a bit quieter in the office for the next few days... - Andy From theology at gmail.com Mon Dec 20 13:00:38 2010 From: theology at gmail.com (Zeth) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:00:38 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] OT: Looking for an iPhone dev In-Reply-To: References: <201012191530.16965.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 19 December 2010 21:22, Jamie Kirkpatrick wrote: > There are getting to be too many of these kinda posts for sure. Well I have threaded email, so my annoyance at getting these kind of posts on mailing lists is moderated by the fact that by the time I get to them, there are already other replies moaning about it which give some kind of cathartic let down. If it was a proper job then I wouldn't have minded about it being an iPhone job advert, I suppose someone has to to do it, but again the fact it has no details at all just makes it noise without signal. From tim.fernando at oucs.ox.ac.uk Mon Dec 20 13:11:35 2010 From: tim.fernando at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Tim Fernando) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:11:35 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] OT: Looking for an iPhone dev In-Reply-To: References: <201012191530.16965.rami.chowdhury@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 20 December 2010 12:00, Zeth wrote: > On 19 December 2010 21:22, Jamie Kirkpatrick wrote: > Well I have threaded email, so my annoyance at getting these kind of > posts on mailing lists is moderated by the fact that by the time I get > to them, there are already other replies moaning about it which give > some kind of cathartic let down. If it was a proper job then I > wouldn't have minded about it being an iPhone job advert, I suppose > someone has to to do it, but again the fact it has no details at all > just makes it noise without signal. +1 although I'm adding to the problem here I agree that the real irritation here for me has been the replies and the moaning. Two job adverts in a week isn't so bad... but there have been *far* more moaning mails. -- Tim Fernando Project Manager - Erewhon & Mobile Oxford Oxford University Computing Services tim.fernando at oucs.ox.ac.uk +44 1865 283348 From andy at reportlab.com Mon Dec 20 13:18:57 2010 From: andy at reportlab.com (Andy Robinson) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 12:18:57 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... Message-ID: As an attempt to generate some content and balance out the "jobs" discussion.... Why don't a few people here tell us what they got up to this year? Neat projects at work, things you learned about Python in 2010, things you've been playing with.... I'm having a mad day but will try to post mine tonight or tomorrow... - Andy From giorgio.zoppi at gmail.com Mon Dec 20 13:43:02 2010 From: giorgio.zoppi at gmail.com (Giorgio Zoppi) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 13:43:02 +0100 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 2010/12/20 Andy Robinson : > As an attempt to generate some content and balance out the "jobs" discussion.... > > Why don't a few people here tell us what they got up to this year? > Neat projects at work, things you learned about Python in 2010, things > you've been playing with.... Stub servers to simulate hardware behaviour with Twisted. Mock testing for a platform, that we're developing. -- Quiero ser el rayo de sol que cada d?a te despierta para hacerte respirar y vivir en me. "Favola -Moda". From matth at netsight.co.uk Mon Dec 20 14:54:13 2010 From: matth at netsight.co.uk (Matt Hamilton) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 13:54:13 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] urllib latency Message-ID: <66EE2F2B-126A-470C-AE6D-0E26809B1B24@netsight.co.uk> Ok, here's a non job related post... Anyone know why urllib.urlopen() can be so much slower than using ab to do the same thing? I seem to be getting an extra 100ms latency on a simple HTTP GET request of a static, small image. e.g. >>> for x in range(10): ... t1 = time(); data = urlopen('http://example.com/kb-brain.png').read(); t2=time(); print t2-t1 ... 0.12966299057 0.131743907928 0.303734064102 0.136001110077 0.136011838913 0.13859796524 0.13979101181 0.145252943039 0.145727872849 0.150994062424 versus, on the same machine: dhcp90:funkload netsight$ ab -n10 -c1 http://example.com/kb-brain.png ... Concurrency Level: 1 Time taken for tests: 0.309 seconds Complete requests: 10 Failed requests: 0 Write errors: 0 Total transferred: 31870 bytes HTML transferred: 28990 bytes Requests per second: 32.32 [#/sec] (mean) Time per request: 30.942 [ms] (mean) Time per request: 30.942 [ms] (mean, across all concurrent requests) Transfer rate: 100.59 [Kbytes/sec] received ... I've tried it repeatedly and get consistent results. The server under test is a cluster of Plone instances behind haproxy. The client and server are connected via 100Mbit fairly lightly loaded network. I've tried taking the read() part out, still the same... I've tried using urllib2 and still pretty much the same. -Matt -- Matt Hamilton matth at netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Business Vision on the Internet http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development and Consulting | Co-location | Hosting From giorgio.zoppi at gmail.com Mon Dec 20 15:04:12 2010 From: giorgio.zoppi at gmail.com (Giorgio Zoppi) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:04:12 +0100 Subject: [python-uk] urllib latency In-Reply-To: <66EE2F2B-126A-470C-AE6D-0E26809B1B24@netsight.co.uk> References: <66EE2F2B-126A-470C-AE6D-0E26809B1B24@netsight.co.uk> Message-ID: 2010/12/20 Matt Hamilton : > Ok, here's a non job related post... > > Anyone know why urllib.urlopen() can be so much slower than using ab to do the same thing? I seem to be getting an extra 100ms latency on a simple HTTP GET request of a static, small image. > I've tried it repeatedly and get consistent results. The server under test is a cluster of Plone instances behind haproxy. The client and server are connected via 100Mbit fairly lightly loaded network. > > I've tried taking the read() part out, still the same... I've tried using urllib2 and still pretty much the same. How does work twisted in this case? -- Quiero ser el rayo de sol que cada d?a te despierta para hacerte respirar y vivir en me. "Favola -Moda". From matth at netsight.co.uk Mon Dec 20 15:13:24 2010 From: matth at netsight.co.uk (Matt Hamilton) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 14:13:24 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] urllib latency In-Reply-To: References: <66EE2F2B-126A-470C-AE6D-0E26809B1B24@netsight.co.uk> Message-ID: <8ECC3F7D-0A68-46B1-8120-5C9B3AC15AE8@netsight.co.uk> On 20 Dec 2010, at 14:04, Giorgio Zoppi wrote: > 2010/12/20 Matt Hamilton : >> Ok, here's a non job related post... >> >> Anyone know why urllib.urlopen() can be so much slower than using ab to do the same thing? I seem to be getting an extra 100ms latency on a simple HTTP GET request of a static, small image. >> I've tried it repeatedly and get consistent results. The server under test is a cluster of Plone instances behind haproxy. The client and server are connected via 100Mbit fairly lightly loaded network. >> >> I've tried taking the read() part out, still the same... I've tried using urllib2 and still pretty much the same. > > How does work twisted in this case? No idea. I've not tried to use twisted in this case. Wouldn't it be overkill? How would twisted be any different making a single request to a server? Unless I'm wrong isn't twisted's main benefit that it allows concurrency? -Matt -- Matt Hamilton matth at netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Business Vision on the Internet http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development and Consulting | Co-location | Hosting From alex at moreati.org.uk Mon Dec 20 15:15:44 2010 From: alex at moreati.org.uk (Alex Willmer) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 14:15:44 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] urllib latency In-Reply-To: <66EE2F2B-126A-470C-AE6D-0E26809B1B24@netsight.co.uk> References: <66EE2F2B-126A-470C-AE6D-0E26809B1B24@netsight.co.uk> Message-ID: On 20 December 2010 13:54, Matt Hamilton wrote: > Anyone know why urllib.urlopen() can be so much slower than using ab to do > the same thing? I seem to be getting an extra 100ms latency on a simple HTTP > GET request of a static, small image. > Just some possibles: - How many DNS lookups is each doing? Have you timed it by IP address, or with example.com in the hosts file? - I understand ab isn't reusing the HTTP connection - could it be reusing the TCP connection or avoiding the 3-way handshake? (My understanding of repeated HTTP requests is sketchy) - Are ab and urllib transferring the same number of bytes? Is one or the other (not) using compression? - Is ab somehow causing fewer, larger packets to be used in either the request or the response? I'd probably be reaching for a packet capture about now. -- Alex Willmer http://moreati.org.uk/blog http://twitter.com/moreati -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matth at netsight.co.uk Mon Dec 20 15:27:14 2010 From: matth at netsight.co.uk (Matt Hamilton) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 14:27:14 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] urllib latency In-Reply-To: <66EE2F2B-126A-470C-AE6D-0E26809B1B24@netsight.co.uk> References: <66EE2F2B-126A-470C-AE6D-0E26809B1B24@netsight.co.uk> Message-ID: <080A4C23-8853-4F32-9E54-B1C984D42579@netsight.co.uk> On 20 Dec 2010, at 13:54, Matt Hamilton wrote: > Ok, here's a non job related post... > > Anyone know why urllib.urlopen() can be so much slower than using ab to do the same thing? I seem to be getting an extra 100ms latency on a simple HTTP GET request of a static, small image. Some more info on this... I've been tracing the packets with wireshark to try and see what is going on, and it looks like with urllib the data is returned pretty quickly, but there is then a 100ms delay as it seems to be shutting down the socket afterwards. I'm trying to work out why, but both urllib and ab appear to go through the same tcp dance to shut down the connection (both client and server send FIN). -Matt -- Matt Hamilton matth at netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Business Vision on the Internet http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development and Consulting | Co-location | Hosting From matth at netsight.co.uk Mon Dec 20 15:41:12 2010 From: matth at netsight.co.uk (Matt Hamilton) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 14:41:12 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] urllib latency In-Reply-To: References: <66EE2F2B-126A-470C-AE6D-0E26809B1B24@netsight.co.uk> Message-ID: <2603A7BA-798E-48CE-8C49-E86B0F654A15@netsight.co.uk> On 20 Dec 2010, at 14:15, Alex Willmer wrote: > On 20 December 2010 13:54, Matt Hamilton wrote: > Anyone know why urllib.urlopen() can be so much slower than using ab to do the same thing? I seem to be getting an extra 100ms latency on a simple HTTP GET request of a static, small image. > > Just some possibles: > - How many DNS lookups is each doing? Have you timed it by IP address, or with example.com in the hosts file? Neither is doing DNS lookups, the DNS entry is cached. Adding it to /etc/host makes no difference either. > - I understand ab isn't reusing the HTTP connection - could it be reusing the TCP connection or avoiding the 3-way handshake? (My understanding of repeated HTTP requests is sketchy) Indeed, neither are using http keepalive, and from what I can see from wireshark, they are creating and closing a TCP connection for each request. > - Are ab and urllib transferring the same number of bytes? Is one or the other (not) using compression? Yes, same number of bytes, same number of packets 1514+67+1514+356 (bytes) > - Is ab somehow causing fewer, larger packets to be used in either the request or the response? Nope, same number. > I'd probably be reaching for a packet capture about now. That is what I'm doing... but slightly getting beyond me now in terms of TCP closing connections. Not really sure how best to share the capture data... but let me try and summarize some of the flows: s -> c last packet (shows as HTTP 200) c -> s ack s -> c fin,ack c -> s ack c -> s fin,ack s -> c ack Actually, I was wrong in my previous post... the close actually goes quite quickly. *The following SYN* from the client to open the next tcp connection seems to take 100ms. I'm off to go dig in the urllib code and see if I can see anything there. I'm wondering if urllib is taking some time to process the data after it receives it before doing anything. This is on OSX, but I'm going to go try it on a FreeBSD box as I can then use ktrace to see what might be happening. -Matt -- Matt Hamilton matth at netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Business Vision on the Internet http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development and Consulting | Co-location | Hosting From tartley at tartley.com Mon Dec 20 16:41:03 2010 From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:41:03 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D0F790F.802@tartley.com> OK, I'll bite, because what we're doing is exciting and new to me, so maybe to others also: Here at Resolver a couple of years ago we wrote a spreadsheet-like desktop application entirely in Python. Cell formulae are also full Python expressions, with a slightly augmented grammar to allow the use of common spreadsheet-isms, such as 'A1:C4' to refer to a cell range. This was specifically written in IronPython, with a Windows Forms GUI, because a number of our financial industry clients wanted .Net interoperability. We had a little trepidation about using IronPython, but in practice it turned out to work really well for us - the IronPython team did a really good job. Conversion between .Net and Python types is unobtrusively and automatically done, so that, for example, you don't have to worry about creating a .Net mapping type to pass to a static-typed C# API - you can simply pass it a regular Python dict, and everything magically 'just works' beautifully. In theory, we should have been able to run cross-platform using Mono, but to get started quickly, we used a third-party GUI component which made win32 calls. This made it impossible to run on other platforms, and with hindsight we should have fixed this already, by replacing that GUI component, but that's still to be done. This year we converted that desktop application into a web application called Dirigible. Think 'Google Docs' spreadsheet, but again with full Python expressions in cells, plus the ability for users to inject their own code into the recalculation process, for example to define functions, import third-party modules, iterate over cells, etc. This is running in CPython, as a Django app, on Amazon EC2 instances. We have already made it possible for clients with extremely large spreadsheets (which take hours to recalculate on Excel) to manually partition calculations to run in parallel across several EC2 instances. Soon we hope to make this process automatic, by examining the dependency graph (which cells depend on which other cells) and passing large stand-alone chunks of the graph to be recalculated on other machines. A lot of our core code, such as formula parsing and dependency calculation, didn't use any .Net at all, and so getting Dirigible running under CPython using code from Resolver One was straightforward. Nevertheless, personally I'd never done any Django nor Javascript, nor EC2 before, and the other guys on the team weren't massively experienced in these things either, so there was a concern about how quickly we could make progress. Happily, we managed to go from first conception ('mkdir Dirigible') to first beta release of Dirigible in two and a half months, and have been releasing updates every couple of days since, which is something I'm very proud of. Going forward, we hope that the two products will compliment each other (web apps aren't the right solution for everyone), and that code-sharing between the projects will mean that improvements in one (e.g. in providing robust statistical functions, or more Excel-compatible functions) will also improve the other. Interested to hear anyone else's stories. Jonathan Hartley Resolver Systems On 20/12/2010 12:18, Andy Robinson wrote: > As an attempt to generate some content and balance out the "jobs" discussion.... > > Why don't a few people here tell us what they got up to this year? > Neat projects at work, things you learned about Python in 2010, things > you've been playing with.... > > I'm having a mad day but will try to post mine tonight or tomorrow... > > - Andy > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk -- Jonathan Hartley Made of meat. http://tartley.com tartley at tartley.com +44 7737 062 225 twitter/skype: tartley From alec.battles at gmail.com Mon Dec 20 17:08:45 2010 From: alec.battles at gmail.com (Alec Battles) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:08:45 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > As an attempt to generate some content and balance out the "jobs" discussion.... > > Why don't a few people here tell us what they got up to this year? > Neat projects at work, things you learned about Python in 2010, things > you've been playing with.... > > I'm having a mad day but will try to post mine tonight or tomorrow... Great question, and a welcome one. I don't use Python as much as I thought I would when I started learning it. But it's been great fun to play around with the NLTK natural language processing library. I'm quite a language enthusiast, so using it to find word frequencies and such (which is just the tip of the iceberg) was fun. Unicode interoperability is a pain, though, and I find it depressing to work with in Python2.x, because it never seems to behave predictably. I still have no idea why tokenizing Hungarian text and tokenizing German text are not fundamentally the same operation, for instance, but I assume it has to do with the messiness of ASCII standards around the two languages. And since more than half of the languages I've studied require unicode compatibility, I've dropped Python entirely until NLTK goes Python3. From David_J_Pearson at uk.ibm.com Mon Dec 20 11:02:08 2010 From: David_J_Pearson at uk.ibm.com (David J Pearson) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 10:02:08 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] AUTO: David J Pearson Is Away On Holiday (returning 05/01/2011) Message-ID: I am out of the office until 05/01/2011. I am currently away on holiday over the Christmas period. I will read / respond to your email when I return. If you need to contact me urgently, please send SMS text message to my mobile phone (number on my bluepages record). Thanks David J Pearson MBCS CITP CEng MIET Technical Staff Member Solution Architect, Lotus Software Services - NE IOT IBM Lotus Symphony Services Technical Lead Lotus Software, IBM United Kingdom Ltd Mailto:David_J_Pearson at uk.ibm.com Note: This is an automated response to your message "python-uk Digest, Vol 88, Issue 13" sent on 20/12/10 8:05:43. This is the only notification you will receive while this person is away. From mail at timgolden.me.uk Mon Dec 20 17:46:33 2010 From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:46:33 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D0F8869.5000403@timgolden.me.uk> On 20/12/2010 16:08, Alec Battles wrote: >Unicode > interoperability is a pain, though, and I find it depressing to work > with in Python2.x, because it never seems to behave predictably. I > still have no idea why tokenizing Hungarian text and tokenizing German > text are not fundamentally the same operation I have no idea why they're not: import codecs with codecs.open ("german.txt", "rb", encoding="utf8") as f: german_text = f.read () with codecs.open ("hungarian.txt", "rb", encoding="utf8") as f: hungarian_text = f.read () # do_stuff_with (german_text) # do_stuff_with (hungarian_text) Of course, I'm assuming that you know what encoding has been used to serialise the text, but if you don't then it's not Python's fault ;) TJG From matth at netsight.co.uk Mon Dec 20 17:51:38 2010 From: matth at netsight.co.uk (Matt Hamilton) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:51:38 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: <4D0F790F.802@tartley.com> References: <4D0F790F.802@tartley.com> Message-ID: On 20 Dec 2010, at 15:41, Jonathan Hartley wrote: > clients with extremely large spreadsheets (which take hours to recalculate on Excel) *shudder* But that is what makes what you have done even more amazing :) I'm pretty sure spreadsheets of that level of complexity have a lot of subtle excel'isms that you must support and at least be able to do on your system. > to manually partition calculations to run in parallel across several EC2 instances. Soon we hope to make this process automatic, by examining the dependency graph (which cells depend on which other cells) and passing large stand-alone chunks of the graph to be recalculated on other machines. > > A lot of our core code, such as formula parsing and dependency calculation, didn't use any .Net at all, and so getting Dirigible running under CPython using code from Resolver One was straightforward. Nevertheless, personally I'd never done any Django nor Javascript, nor EC2 before, and the other guys on the team weren't massively experienced in these things either, so there was a concern about how quickly we could make progress. Happily, we managed to go from first conception ('mkdir Dirigible') to first beta release of Dirigible in two and a half months, and have been releasing updates every couple of days since, which is something I'm very proud of. > > Going forward, we hope that the two products will compliment each other (web apps aren't the right solution for everyone), and that code-sharing between the projects will mean that improvements in one (e.g. in providing robust statistical functions, or more Excel-compatible functions) will also improve the other. That is all really really cool :) -Matt -- Matt Hamilton matth at netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Business Vision on the Internet http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development and Consulting | Co-location | Hosting From python at rotwang.co.uk Mon Dec 20 15:43:10 2010 From: python at rotwang.co.uk (python at rotwang.co.uk) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 14:43:10 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D0F6B7E.9010403@rotwang.co.uk> On 20/12/10 12:43, Giorgio Zoppi wrote: > 2010/12/20 Andy Robinson: >> As an attempt to generate some content and balance out the "jobs" discussion.... >> >> Why don't a few people here tell us what they got up to this year? >> Neat projects at work, things you learned about Python in 2010, things >> you've been playing with.... > Stub servers to simulate hardware behaviour with Twisted. > Mock testing for a platform, that we're developing. Measuring clock error in a Software Defined Radio system (using gnuradio) in real time. Controlling a 2 axis mirror array to concentrate solar energy. Generating CAD files for the manufacture of a worm gear wheel. Making Christmas cards Sadly I only got paid for some of it. The invoices are generated in Python though. Dave Berkeley From cmsdew at gmail.com Mon Dec 20 17:25:26 2010 From: cmsdew at gmail.com (Chris Dew) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:25:26 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've used a lot of Python/Django for vehicle/resource tracking http://www.xlocate.net/ - about 50% of the server-side is Python, the rest being Javascript/NodeJS. The web site uses Django CMS. I've also used Python a dozen times for one-off text processing jobs. - Chris On 20 December 2010 12:18, Andy Robinson wrote: > As an attempt to generate some content and balance out the "jobs" > discussion.... > > Why don't a few people here tell us what they got up to this year? > Neat projects at work, things you learned about Python in 2010, things > you've been playing with.... > > I'm having a mad day but will try to post mine tonight or tomorrow... > > - Andy > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alec.battles at gmail.com Mon Dec 20 17:58:07 2010 From: alec.battles at gmail.com (Alec Battles) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:58:07 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: <4D0F8869.5000403@timgolden.me.uk> References: <4D0F8869.5000403@timgolden.me.uk> Message-ID: >> Unicode >> interoperability is a pain, though, and I find it depressing to work >> with in Python2.x, because it never seems to behave predictably. I >> still have no idea why tokenizing Hungarian text and tokenizing German >> text are not fundamentally the same operation > > I have no idea why they're not: > > > import codecs > > with codecs.open ("german.txt", "rb", encoding="utf8") as f: > ?german_text = f.read () > > with codecs.open ("hungarian.txt", "rb", encoding="utf8") as f: > ?hungarian_text = f.read () > > # do_stuff_with (german_text) > # do_stuff_with (hungarian_text) > > > > Of course, I'm assuming that you know what encoding has been > used to serialise the text, but if you don't then it's not > Python's fault ;) Thanks. I'll try that. I seem to remember that 'file' in Linux detects encodings, but it's also a matter of calling it by the exact same name... Alec From doug.winter at isotoma.com Mon Dec 20 17:26:09 2010 From: doug.winter at isotoma.com (Doug Winter) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:26:09 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] urllib latency In-Reply-To: <2603A7BA-798E-48CE-8C49-E86B0F654A15@netsight.co.uk> References: <66EE2F2B-126A-470C-AE6D-0E26809B1B24@netsight.co.uk> <2603A7BA-798E-48CE-8C49-E86B0F654A15@netsight.co.uk> Message-ID: <4D0F83A1.4070909@isotoma.com> Matt Hamilton wrote: > I'm off to go dig in the urllib code and see if I can see anything > there. I'm wondering if urllib is taking some time to process the > data after it receives it before doing anything. > > This is on OSX, but I'm going to go try it on a FreeBSD box as I can > then use ktrace to see what might be happening. Could it be SO_REUSEADDR? Seems unlikely but I can't think of anything else. If ab is specifying this but python isn't you might get a reconnection delay. Cheers, Doug. -- Telephone: +44 1904 567330, Mobile: +44 7879 423002 Switchboard: +44 1904 567349, Fax: +44 20 79006980 Post: Tower House, Fishergate, York, YO10 4UA, UK Registered in England. Company No 5171172. VAT GB843570325. Regd Office: 3&4 Park Court, Riccall Road, Escrick, York, YO19 6ED From andy at reportlab.com Mon Dec 20 18:06:23 2010 From: andy at reportlab.com (Andy Robinson) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 17:06:23 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: <4D0F6B7E.9010403@rotwang.co.uk> References: <4D0F6B7E.9010403@rotwang.co.uk> Message-ID: On 20 December 2010 14:43, wrote: > Sadly I only got paid for some of it. The invoices are generated in Python > though. PDFs from ReportLab, I hope and trust? ;-) -- Andy Robinson Managing Director ReportLab Europe Ltd. From nick at nivan.net Mon Dec 20 18:07:23 2010 From: nick at nivan.net (Nick Murdoch) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 17:07:23 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: References: <4D0F8869.5000403@timgolden.me.uk> Message-ID: <20101220170722.GA29605@femputer> On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 04:58:07PM +0000, Alec Battles wrote: > > I seem to remember that 'file' in Linux detects encodings, but it's > also a matter of calling it by the exact same name... > Any encoding detection will be heuristics; I've personally found the chardet library really useful when I'm stuck with a file that nobody knows the encoding of :) http://chardet.feedparser.org/ Cheers, Nick From doug.winter at isotoma.com Mon Dec 20 18:11:36 2010 From: doug.winter at isotoma.com (Doug Winter) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 17:11:36 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: References: <4D0F8869.5000403@timgolden.me.uk> Message-ID: <4D0F8E48.4070507@isotoma.com> Alec Battles wrote: > I seem to remember that 'file' in Linux detects encodings, but it's > also a matter of calling it by the exact same name... There is no foolproof way of detecting encoding unfortunately - you just need to know what it is before you read the file. Cheers, Doug. -- Telephone: +44 1904 567330, Mobile: +44 7879 423002 Switchboard: +44 1904 567349, Fax: +44 20 79006980 Post: Tower House, Fishergate, York, YO10 4UA, UK Registered in England. Company No 5171172. VAT GB843570325. Regd Office: 3&4 Park Court, Riccall Road, Escrick, York, YO19 6ED From jon+python-uk at unequivocal.co.uk Mon Dec 20 18:19:01 2010 From: jon+python-uk at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 17:19:01 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] urllib latency In-Reply-To: <4D0F83A1.4070909@isotoma.com> References: <66EE2F2B-126A-470C-AE6D-0E26809B1B24@netsight.co.uk> <2603A7BA-798E-48CE-8C49-E86B0F654A15@netsight.co.uk> <4D0F83A1.4070909@isotoma.com> Message-ID: <20101220171901.GP17042@snowy.squish.net> On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 04:26:09PM +0000, Doug Winter wrote: > Matt Hamilton wrote: > > I'm off to go dig in the urllib code and see if I can see anything > > there. I'm wondering if urllib is taking some time to process the > > data after it receives it before doing anything. > > > > This is on OSX, but I'm going to go try it on a FreeBSD box as I can > > then use ktrace to see what might be happening. > > Could it be SO_REUSEADDR? Um... no ;-) From alec.battles at gmail.com Mon Dec 20 18:53:20 2010 From: alec.battles at gmail.com (Alec Battles) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 17:53:20 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: <4D0F8E48.4070507@isotoma.com> References: <4D0F8869.5000403@timgolden.me.uk> <4D0F8E48.4070507@isotoma.com> Message-ID: >> I seem to remember that 'file' in Linux detects encodings, but it's >> also a matter of calling it by the exact same name... > > There is no foolproof way of detecting encoding unfortunately - you just > need to know what it is before you read the file. That's interesting. I wonder if there's a mathematical proof of the 'undecidability' of text encodings. From michael at grazebrook.com Mon Dec 20 19:02:59 2010 From: michael at grazebrook.com (Michael Grazebrook) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 18:02:59 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: <4D0F6B7E.9010403@rotwang.co.uk> References: <4D0F6B7E.9010403@rotwang.co.uk> Message-ID: <4D0F9A53.8020509@grazebrook.com> Dear Mr Berkley, This sounds both fun and interesting! Tell me more! Was this business or pleasure? A small project of my own is to help my father with his milling machine. He wants to re-write a program in a more modern language: the program converts printed circuit board layouts into the milling machine's g-code language. At the moment the code is in an archaic Basic dialect. Is that sort of thing interesting to you? yours, Michael Grazebrook On 20/12/2010 14:43, python at rotwang.co.uk wrote: > > Controlling a 2 axis mirror array to concentrate solar energy. > > Generating CAD files for the manufacture of a worm gear wheel. From matth at netsight.co.uk Mon Dec 20 18:00:46 2010 From: matth at netsight.co.uk (Matt Hamilton) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 17:00:46 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 20 Dec 2010, at 12:18, Andy Robinson wrote: > Why don't a few people here tell us what they got up to this year? > Neat projects at work, things you learned about Python in 2010, things > you've been playing with.... Well a couple highlights of my year: * I organised the Plone Conference 2010 which was held in the UK this year. We had nearly 300 attendees from 33 different countries. This was a fantastic event, a great community of people and demonstrating the power of python in larger systems * We launched a python based eMentoring site for Brightside UNIAID, with currently around 60 schemes (each a separate site), 18,000 registered users with 100 logged in per hour. * I was elected Vice President of the Plone Foundation. * We hired another python developer (bringing our small company up to 13 people in total) and gave everyone a 10% pay rise, bucking the doom and gloom of the recession. -Matt -- Matt Hamilton matth at netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Business Vision on the Internet http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development and Consulting | Co-location | Hosting From rob_cowie at me.com Mon Dec 20 18:15:48 2010 From: rob_cowie at me.com (Rob Cowie) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 17:15:48 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: References: <4D0F6B7E.9010403@rotwang.co.uk> Message-ID: <738E9971-DE29-4BA3-BB0E-C4F4881840D7@me.com> On that topic, one of my highlights this year has been getting a ReportLab license. I'm now producing uninteresting letters with interesting tech; It's all about the journey not the destination I guess ;) On 20 Dec 2010, at 17:06, Andy Robinson wrote: > On 20 December 2010 14:43, wrote: >> Sadly I only got paid for some of it. The invoices are generated in Python >> though. > > PDFs from ReportLab, I hope and trust? ;-) > > -- > Andy Robinson > Managing Director > ReportLab Europe Ltd. > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk From doug.winter at isotoma.com Mon Dec 20 19:29:01 2010 From: doug.winter at isotoma.com (Doug Winter) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 18:29:01 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: References: <4D0F8869.5000403@timgolden.me.uk> <4D0F8E48.4070507@isotoma.com> Message-ID: <4D0FA06D.3000408@isotoma.com> On 20/12/10 17:53, Alec Battles wrote: >>> I seem to remember that 'file' in Linux detects encodings, but it's >>> also a matter of calling it by the exact same name... >> >> There is no foolproof way of detecting encoding unfortunately - you just >> need to know what it is before you read the file. > > That's interesting. I wonder if there's a mathematical proof of the > 'undecidability' of text encodings. Hofstadter describes the problem in Godel, Escher, Bach as the "Envelope Problem" IIRC - you need to have some idea of how to decode any message you are sent, and you even need to understand that it is a "message". UNIX manages the latter for us by providing a filename - but how to interpret the contents is entirely up to you. It might be UTF-8, it might be a jpeg, it might be encrypted using AES. You need to know what to expect to try and interpret the contents. I bet there is a name for this (although probably not a proof), but I don't know what it is ;) Cheers, Doug. -- Telephone: +44 1904 567330, Mobile: +44 7879 423002 Switchboard: +44 1904 567349, Fax: +44 20 79006980 Post: Tower House, Fishergate, York, YO10 4UA, UK Registered in England. Company No 5171172. VAT GB843570325. Regd Office: 3&4 Park Court, Riccall Road, Escrick, York, YO19 6ED From doug.winter at isotoma.com Mon Dec 20 19:29:20 2010 From: doug.winter at isotoma.com (Doug Winter) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 18:29:20 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D0FA080.9080209@isotoma.com> On 20/12/10 17:00, Matt Hamilton wrote: > * I organised the Plone Conference 2010 which was held in the UK this year. We had nearly 300 attendees from 33 different countries. This was a fantastic event, a great community of people and demonstrating the power of python in larger systems And very good it was too! Cheers, Doug. -- Telephone: +44 1904 567330, Mobile: +44 7879 423002 Switchboard: +44 1904 567349, Fax: +44 20 79006980 Post: Tower House, Fishergate, York, YO10 4UA, UK Registered in England. Company No 5171172. VAT GB843570325. Regd Office: 3&4 Park Court, Riccall Road, Escrick, York, YO19 6ED From will at willmcgugan.com Mon Dec 20 19:33:31 2010 From: will at willmcgugan.com (Will McGugan) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 18:33:31 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Not sure if I'll allowed to discuss the day job, but in my off time I've been developing pyfilesystem (http://code.google.com/p/pyfilesystem/). I recently added the ability to open filesystems with a url, and created a bunch of command line applications which make use of that. This turned out to be an insanely useful and versatile feature (IMHO). Here are some examples of what you can do the command line apps: Display a file on an ftp server: fscat ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/README Serve an ftp site over http, effectively creating a ftp to http gateway: fsserve ftp://ftp.mozilla.org Display the directory structure of a zip file: fstree zip://myzip.zip Copy all the log files on an sftp server to a zip file on an ftp server: fscp sftp://will:password at example.org/logs/*.log zip: ftp://ftp.example.org/pub/archivedlogs.zip Mount a ram drive in your home directory fsmount ~/ramdrive mem:// Its all in the repo trunk now. I plan to release version 0.4 in January once I've written a shed load of docs... Will On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Andy Robinson wrote: > As an attempt to generate some content and balance out the "jobs" > discussion.... > > Why don't a few people here tell us what they got up to this year? > Neat projects at work, things you learned about Python in 2010, things > you've been playing with.... > > I'm having a mad day but will try to post mine tonight or tomorrow... > > - Andy > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > -- Will McGugan http://www.willmcgugan.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From doug.winter at isotoma.com Mon Dec 20 19:37:46 2010 From: doug.winter at isotoma.com (Doug Winter) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 18:37:46 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D0FA27A.1030607@isotoma.com> We've been building all sorts of stuff, much of which I can't talk about annoyingly. We're about 50% Plone, 50% other stuff - primarily Django, Twisted and plain old Python. Most of my time has been taken up with our largest client who is in the Pharmaceutical industry. We've done lots of cool stuff with buildout, which is a superb bit of software that should get more airtime outside Plone. We've written quite a few handy recipes: http://pypi.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=search&term=isotoma We have some particularly mad stuff going with buildout and buildbot (buildout deploying buildbot that deploys buildout in VMs to deploy buildbot in one case!). I'd encourage anyone with production config management or release tasks using Python to strongly consider buildout. I have been working on pyspotify and squeal in my own time: https://github.com/winjer And I hope to find some more time for them over xmas. Also I've been playing with Arduino, although that's so straightforward to use Python does everything I need it to. I've fiddled with ZigBee networking, which is quite good fun and I've got some basic stuff for that in Python. Cheers, Doug. -- Telephone: +44 1904 567330, Mobile: +44 7879 423002 Switchboard: +44 1904 567349, Fax: +44 20 79006980 Post: Tower House, Fishergate, York, YO10 4UA, UK Registered in England. Company No 5171172. VAT GB843570325. Regd Office: 3&4 Park Court, Riccall Road, Escrick, York, YO19 6ED From giorgio.zoppi at gmail.com Mon Dec 20 19:37:52 2010 From: giorgio.zoppi at gmail.com (Giorgio Zoppi) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 19:37:52 +0100 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: <4D0FA06D.3000408@isotoma.com> References: <4D0F8869.5000403@timgolden.me.uk> <4D0F8E48.4070507@isotoma.com> <4D0FA06D.3000408@isotoma.com> Message-ID: 2010/12/20 Doug Winter : > On 20/12/10 17:53, Alec Battles wrote: >>>> >>>> I seem to remember that 'file' in Linux detects encodings, but it's >>>> also a matter of calling it by the exact same name... >>> >>> There is no foolproof way of detecting encoding unfortunately - you just >>> need to know what it is before you read the file. >> >> That's interesting. I wonder if there's a mathematical proof of the >> 'undecidability' of text encodings. > > Hofstadter describes the problem in Godel, Escher, Bach as the "Envelope > Problem" IIRC - you need to have some idea of how to decode any message you > are sent, and you even need to understand that it is a "message". > > UNIX manages the latter for us by providing a filename - but how to > interpret the contents is entirely up to you. ?It might be UTF-8, it might > be a jpeg, it might be encrypted using AES. ?You need to know what to expect > to try and interpret the contents. > > I bet there is a name for this (although probably not a proof), but I don't > know what it is ;) You could give some heuristic on well known message domains as well, but it would lead to false negative or false positive. For example you could pattern match on file initial contents. This problem reminds me what we did several years ago on intrusion detection systems. Best Regards, Giorgio. -- Quiero ser el rayo de sol que cada d?a te despierta para hacerte respirar y vivir en me. "Favola -Moda". From doug.winter at isotoma.com Mon Dec 20 19:38:54 2010 From: doug.winter at isotoma.com (Doug Winter) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 18:38:54 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] urllib latency In-Reply-To: <20101220171901.GP17042@snowy.squish.net> References: <66EE2F2B-126A-470C-AE6D-0E26809B1B24@netsight.co.uk> <2603A7BA-798E-48CE-8C49-E86B0F654A15@netsight.co.uk> <4D0F83A1.4070909@isotoma.com> <20101220171901.GP17042@snowy.squish.net> Message-ID: <4D0FA2BE.7060101@isotoma.com> On 20/12/10 17:19, Jon Ribbens wrote: >> Could it be SO_REUSEADDR? > > Um... no ;-) It did seem unlikely ;) -- Telephone: +44 1904 567330, Mobile: +44 7879 423002 Switchboard: +44 1904 567349, Fax: +44 20 79006980 Post: Tower House, Fishergate, York, YO10 4UA, UK Registered in England. Company No 5171172. VAT GB843570325. Regd Office: 3&4 Park Court, Riccall Road, Escrick, York, YO19 6ED From python at rotwang.co.uk Mon Dec 20 20:29:43 2010 From: python at rotwang.co.uk (python at rotwang.co.uk) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 19:29:43 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: References: <4D0F6B7E.9010403@rotwang.co.uk> Message-ID: <4D0FAEA7.1020101@rotwang.co.uk> On 20/12/10 17:06, Andy Robinson wrote: > On 20 December 2010 14:43, wrote: >> Sadly I only got paid for some of it. The invoices are generated in Python >> though. > PDFs from ReportLab, I hope and trust? ;-) > No, but the Christmas cards are. The invoices are just dynamically generated HTML. I know they should be in PDF and I would certainly use your toolkit if they were. My backend is very primitive. D From python at rotwang.co.uk Mon Dec 20 20:32:09 2010 From: python at rotwang.co.uk (python at rotwang.co.uk) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 19:32:09 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: <4D0FA27A.1030607@isotoma.com> References: <4D0FA27A.1030607@isotoma.com> Message-ID: <4D0FAF39.1000100@rotwang.co.uk> > Also I've been playing with Arduino, although that's so > straightforward to use Python does everything I need it to. I've > fiddled with ZigBee networking, which is quite good fun and I've got > some basic stuff for that in Python. > > Cheers, > > Doug. > Hi Doug, I went to a talk by you (on TurboGears?) in 2007 just before I moved out of York. I hope things are going well. I was working on a mad project at the time to analyse rail journeys to determine which single staged fares could save money. The UK rail system has the most bizarre fares structure. You can exploit it by breaking the route into sections and buying tickets for each step. On some routes you can regularly save 40% or more on the fare. We pulled the plug as we realised that we would run into legal problems. I should have open sourced it at the time. We used Beautiful Soup to gather the data and used a distributed network using Twisted (we never used the word botnet) to disguise the source of the requests. The code worked fine but it was not a good project to pursue. I did some Zigbee work in 2006 for a company in Cambridge, Alert Me. They were using it for home security systems, but seem to have shifted more to green energy monitoring. They used Python a lot too, on embedded Linux. The Zigbee specs were all in flux back then. The Arduino is a lovely little board. It is what I was using for motor control for my solar concentrator. I used Python and PyEphem to track the sun, or rather reflect the sun onto a target. I couldn't find a partner or funding so I had to get a proper job. The electronics is all very simple, but I'm not a Mech Eng. The idea is simple and not new. An array of mirrors to focus sunlight onto a single spot. Static panels only get a cosine of the available sunlight, to they lose out in morning and evening. If you track the sun with a mirror you effectively halve the angle to get useful energy all day. Mirrors are much cheaper than solar panels. Most work has been done on big installations with expensive mirrors, massive motors, big concrete mounts. My approach was to use small cheap lightweight mirrors, more of them, each controlled by a micro, fixed to existing structures (eg. a wall). The prototype used the Arduino. As long as you know lon / lat and your current time you can calculate the Sun's position in the local sky. The difficult part is calibrating the mirrors. I was working on that when I ran out of money and had to get a "proper job". A single low powered processor board (something like the beagleboard) running linux talking to multiple cheap microcontrollers (eg. Arduino) would be able to control a sizeable array with very low power consumption. I hoped to target small installations in places with no fossil fuels, plenty of clear sky days and poor power infrastructure. Alternatively people with a property portfolio, eg. housing associations or developers. This guy is building really big installations and has very good funding : http://www.idealab.com/inside_the_lab/videos/esolar_tour.html I wanted to do the same thing on a small scale. It could make a big difference to a lot of communities. Dave Berkeley From ed.hartley at gmail.com Mon Dec 20 21:09:59 2010 From: ed.hartley at gmail.com (Edward Hartley) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 20:09:59 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: <4D0F8869.5000403@timgolden.me.uk> References: <4D0F8869.5000403@timgolden.me.uk> Message-ID: <376D4310-F9E3-4526-B8E9-2DFE73041C00@gmail.com> On 20 Dec 2010, at 16:46, Tim Golden wrote: > On 20/12/2010 16:08, Alec Battles wrote: >> I >> still have no idea why tokenizing Hungarian text and tokenizing German >> text are not fundamentally the same operation > Those languages have different grammatical structure inflexion and stemming rules amongst others. HTH > I have no idea why they're not: > > > import codecs > > with codecs.open ("german.txt", "rb", encoding="utf8") as f: > german_text = f.read () > > with codecs.open ("hungarian.txt", "rb", encoding="utf8") as f: > hungarian_text = f.read () > > # do_stuff_with (german_text) > # do_stuff_with (hungarian_text) > > > > Of course, I'm assuming that you know what encoding has been > used to serialise the text, but if you don't then it's not > Python's fault ;) > > TJG > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk From python at rotwang.co.uk Mon Dec 20 21:55:11 2010 From: python at rotwang.co.uk (python at rotwang.co.uk) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 20:55:11 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: <4D0F9A53.8020509@grazebrook.com> References: <4D0F6B7E.9010403@rotwang.co.uk> <4D0F9A53.8020509@grazebrook.com> Message-ID: <4D0FC2AF.30300@rotwang.co.uk> Hi Michael All I did was generate some DXF files that could be fed into a laser cutter. But I've never designed anything like that before, so the geometry and getting the gear teeth right was fun. It was for a business idea that didn't progress. Dave Berkeley On 20/12/10 18:02, Michael Grazebrook wrote: > Dear Mr Berkley, > > This sounds both fun and interesting! Tell me more! Was this business > or pleasure? > > A small project of my own is to help my father with his milling > machine. He wants to re-write a program in a more modern language: the > program converts printed circuit board layouts into the milling > machine's g-code language. At the moment the code is in an archaic > Basic dialect. > > Is that sort of thing interesting to you? > > yours, > Michael Grazebrook > > On 20/12/2010 14:43, python at rotwang.co.uk wrote: >> >> Controlling a 2 axis mirror array to concentrate solar energy. >> >> Generating CAD files for the manufacture of a worm gear wheel. > > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > From matth at netsight.co.uk Tue Dec 21 11:29:22 2010 From: matth at netsight.co.uk (Matt Hamilton) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 10:29:22 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] urllib latency In-Reply-To: <4D0F83A1.4070909@isotoma.com> References: <66EE2F2B-126A-470C-AE6D-0E26809B1B24@netsight.co.uk> <2603A7BA-798E-48CE-8C49-E86B0F654A15@netsight.co.uk> <4D0F83A1.4070909@isotoma.com> Message-ID: <6AFDD19B-45DB-4858-90BA-BD761C8B6250@netsight.co.uk> On 20 Dec 2010, at 16:26, Doug Winter wrote: > Matt Hamilton wrote: >> I'm off to go dig in the urllib code and see if I can see anything >> there. I'm wondering if urllib is taking some time to process the >> data after it receives it before doing anything. >> >> This is on OSX, but I'm going to go try it on a FreeBSD box as I can >> then use ktrace to see what might be happening. > > Could it be SO_REUSEADDR? Seems unlikely but I can't think of anything > else. If ab is specifying this but python isn't you might get a > reconnection delay. Close :) It appears to be some interaction between Nagle and delayed acks. The server is FreeBSD, and if I disable delayed acks on the server then I notice a bit of a speedup (seems there is a deadlock that occurs in the TCP sessions between my varnish and haproxy processes on that box). I then have a similar issue for the request I mentioned in this thread, that happens to be cached by varnish. If I then disable delayed acks on the OSX box running the python tests, that speeds up again and I lose the 100ms extra latency and it is on par with ab. ie. about 6ms to retrieve the request. Question is why does python suffer from this deadlock, yet ab on the same machine doesn't? I thought it could be something with TCP_NODELAY, but setting that on the socket on python doesn't seem to help. I'm just wondering if there is a particular order in which the packets and acks are being sent, but from my wireshark trace yesterday they did seem to be exactly the same. -Matt -- Matt Hamilton matth at netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Business Vision on the Internet http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development and Consulting | Co-location | Hosting From mail at timgolden.me.uk Tue Dec 21 11:33:11 2010 From: mail at timgolden.me.uk (Tim Golden) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 10:33:11 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D108267.5090108@timgolden.me.uk> Bit of this year and last... We have a 3rd-party COTS Helpdesk system with a woeful desktop interface and a naive [and that's being charitable] email ingest mechanism. All the data's stored in a SQL Server and is fairly clearly two different apps bolted together... A few years ago I knocked up a simple cherrypy web interface for it, mostly to avoid my having to use the egregious supplied UI. Then about 18 months ago I got so annoyed at the email ingest that I ran up an alternative as a proof of concept. At the same time I added an email alerting mechanism which sends out lightly-formatted emails on call updates. Now, several editions (and additions) later, the email ingest and alert mechanisms are easily the most used way to communicate with the IT Helpdesk. We encourage users to "communicate through the call" since it leaves the conversation trail visible to anyone who needs to look; it handles attachments such as screenshots of corrupts docs and is very easy to use. At the same time, the users see the assignments and Support activity so there's much greater transparency than before. A number of the ideas are certainly inspired by the concepts in Roundup (and possibly in other issue trackers) although I've never looked at the code there, and the concepts are similar, not identical. Key features: * Email ingest adequately determines the correct "conversation" to link to, handles embedded or linked attachments, and does a fairly good job of stripping out "noise". * Some actions can be handled entirely by email such as reassignment, status change, etc. although this isn't widely used. * Email alerting notifies on call creation, closure, update and a few specific status changes; includes attachment links and does some header munging so the originator appears to be the updater but the reply goes to the Helpdesk. * "Nosy" list concept akin to Roundup's where several people will receive call updates (even a distribution list...) * Master / child call -- this is quite recent and we're still playing with it, but basically a tree of calls can be closed together and the upper ones show the lower updates. The key requirement here is a split-assignment, such as when a new Blackberry is requested and the ordering is handled through the Facilities team while IT do the commissioning. Key tools / libraries: * Web interface: cherrypy, hand-crafted SQL, messy string-based HTML with %-formatting. [Not proud of this part; it's in real need of refactoring] * Email ingest: Exchange emapi, regular expressions for stripping out noise * Email alerts: smtplib, AD, jinja2 for formatted emails, regexes again for message manipulation Future ideas: * Alarms: eg allowing a call to "sleep" for an agreed period, to be picked up later; notifying when SLA milestones are passed etc. TJG From matth at netsight.co.uk Tue Dec 21 11:39:23 2010 From: matth at netsight.co.uk (Matt Hamilton) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 10:39:23 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] urllib latency In-Reply-To: <6AFDD19B-45DB-4858-90BA-BD761C8B6250@netsight.co.uk> References: <66EE2F2B-126A-470C-AE6D-0E26809B1B24@netsight.co.uk> <2603A7BA-798E-48CE-8C49-E86B0F654A15@netsight.co.uk> <4D0F83A1.4070909@isotoma.com> <6AFDD19B-45DB-4858-90BA-BD761C8B6250@netsight.co.uk> Message-ID: On 21 Dec 2010, at 10:29, Matt Hamilton wrote: > I then have a similar issue for the request I mentioned in this thread, that happens to be cached by varnish. If I then disable delayed acks on the OSX box running the python tests, that speeds up again and I lose the 100ms extra latency and it is on par with ab. ie. about 6ms to retrieve the request. And then re-running the tests from the same python prompt that was open just before I wrote that email and I now have the 100ms delay back again... yet not still in ab. Quitting and starting a new python process and I still have the delay. Grrrrrrr...... -Matt -- Matt Hamilton matth at netsight.co.uk Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Business Vision on the Internet http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901 Web Design | Zope/Plone Development and Consulting | Co-location | Hosting From renesd at gmail.com Tue Dec 21 12:46:09 2010 From: renesd at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Dudfield?=) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 11:46:09 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey ya, Enjoyed many London python dojos... and learnt a number of little tips from there, and met a bunch of london python people. That was probably the highlight of 2010 python involvement for me. Started writing a shit JavaScript interpreter (very early stages). ** Wrote a minimal new content management system(html as well as images, video, twitter, events and facebook related content). Did some billing software stuff. Started on a website library... pywebsite. ** Helped make a few mini games(including woger the wibbly wobbly wombat with a group from the london dojo). Wrote a few tools to help with the pygame website (which is still mostly php). ** Helped port a few things to py3k. Did a bunch of packaging improvements to a few libraries of mine, and some open source. ** Made some improvements to have python bindings for portmidi incorporated into the portmidi version control... as pyportmidi. ** Two video performances using pygame, numpy etc. A lot of that was using python to prepare/collect the data to display. ** worked on reducing memory used by python app servers(so I can run lots more little python apps on my cheap, low memory servers). Well, that's all I'm allowed to talk about now (it's not really interesting stuff under NDA anyway). cu. On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Andy Robinson wrote: > As an attempt to generate some content and balance out the "jobs" > discussion.... > > Why don't a few people here tell us what they got up to this year? > Neat projects at work, things you learned about Python in 2010, things > you've been playing with.... > > I'm having a mad day but will try to post mine tonight or tomorrow... > > - Andy > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mattcturnbull at googlemail.com Tue Dec 21 13:22:32 2010 From: mattcturnbull at googlemail.com (Matthew Turnbull) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 12:22:32 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For a while now I've been interested in sports / games 'ratings' systems. Some years back I collected results from weekly football games and wanted a way to score individual players from team score results (the teams change each week) - ultimately I wanted to help pick balanced teams). This year I set up a company table tennis ladder on racquetladder.com but was desperately unhappy with the ranking system - the winner / loser simply switch (or stick) ranks, which is terribly unstable (although very transparent). So I made a python / numpy implementation of R?mi Coulom's 'Whole History Rating' algorithm, and experimented a little with creating 'interactive' SVG plots of the results. Then I took part in the Planetwars "Google" AI challenge, and chose to use Python, thinking it would be dominated by clever heuristics rather than brute calculation. Top UK Python entry (*bow*) but, sadly, other languages dominated. Interestingly, they used Coulom's 'Bayeselo' to rate the entries, about which there was much griping, but nobody could think of a better way to do it -- I think generally people underestimated just how powerful Bayeselo is, and besides, those people were all over on kaggle.com where they concurrently had a 'design a better Elo' competition! So, for me it was an interestingly coincidental year. Oh, I also went to a London Dojo -- it was a lot of fun and I hope to go again. I don't really have any projects on the go at the moment so 2011 is a blank slate. Definitely want to win the next ai challenge :) Nice to have a chance to talk about these things. Matt From jon+python-uk at unequivocal.co.uk Tue Dec 21 14:31:06 2010 From: jon+python-uk at unequivocal.co.uk (Jon Ribbens) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 13:31:06 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] urllib latency In-Reply-To: References: <66EE2F2B-126A-470C-AE6D-0E26809B1B24@netsight.co.uk> <2603A7BA-798E-48CE-8C49-E86B0F654A15@netsight.co.uk> <4D0F83A1.4070909@isotoma.com> <6AFDD19B-45DB-4858-90BA-BD761C8B6250@netsight.co.uk> Message-ID: <20101221133106.GS17042@snowy.squish.net> On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 10:39:23AM +0000, Matt Hamilton wrote: > And then re-running the tests from the same python prompt that was > open just before I wrote that email and I now have the 100ms delay > back again... yet not still in ab. Quitting and starting a new > python process and I still have the delay. Trying it here with a web server on localhost I get ~1.7ms with urllib and 0.4ms with ab, or a remote web server gives 9ms with urllib and 8ms with ab - which I guess is kinda what I would expect. So it doesn't appear to be a generic problem with urllib. (Python 2.6.5) From kevin.p.dwyer at gmail.com Tue Dec 21 14:38:21 2010 From: kevin.p.dwyer at gmail.com (Kev Dwyer) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 13:38:21 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I haven't done much python this year, but had a great time at Europython and the London dojo. As I speak, a couple of days using jython for websphere automation awaits... On 21 December 2010 12:22, Matthew Turnbull wrote: > For a while now I've been interested in sports / games 'ratings' > systems. Some years back I collected results from weekly football > games and wanted a way to score individual players from team score > results (the teams change each week) - ultimately I wanted to help > pick balanced teams). This year I set up a company table tennis ladder > on racquetladder.com but was desperately unhappy with the ranking > system - the winner / loser simply switch (or stick) ranks, which is > terribly unstable (although very transparent). So I made a python / > numpy implementation of R?mi Coulom's 'Whole History Rating' > algorithm, and experimented a little with creating 'interactive' SVG > plots of the results. > > Then I took part in the Planetwars "Google" AI challenge, and chose to > use Python, thinking it would be dominated by clever heuristics rather > than brute calculation. Top UK Python entry (*bow*) but, sadly, other > languages dominated. Interestingly, they used Coulom's 'Bayeselo' to > rate the entries, about which there was much griping, but nobody could > think of a better way to do it -- I think generally people > underestimated just how powerful Bayeselo is, and besides, those > people were all over on kaggle.com where they concurrently had a > 'design a better Elo' competition! So, for me it was an interestingly > coincidental year. > > Oh, I also went to a London Dojo -- it was a lot of fun and I hope to > go again. I don't really have any projects on the go at the moment so > 2011 is a blank slate. Definitely want to win the next ai challenge :) > > Nice to have a chance to talk about these things. > Matt > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tartley at tartley.com Tue Dec 21 14:40:35 2010 From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 13:40:35 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: References: <4D0F790F.802@tartley.com> Message-ID: <4D10AE53.3030807@tartley.com> On 20/12/2010 16:51, Matt Hamilton wrote: > On 20 Dec 2010, at 15:41, Jonathan Hartley wrote: >> clients with extremely large spreadsheets (which take hours to recalculate on Excel) > *shudder* > > But that is what makes what you have done even more amazing :) I'm pretty sure spreadsheets of that level of complexity have a lot of subtle excel'isms that you must support and at least be able to do on your system. Heh. Even as a spreadsheet-making company, we empathise with the shudder - they are brilliant ad-hoc investigation tools, but are often inappropriately used, simply because they are the one tool many people are most familiar with. My boss coined (or at least uses) the term 'frankensheet' :-) You are right to pinpoint Excel compatibility as our biggest demon - we have Excel import functionality for the desktop product, but not yet for the web app, and it's not 100% - we sometimes come across customer sheets which use functions we haven't implemented (we opted to implement them as-and-when we came across them, so as to avoid doing lots of work emulating corners of Excel which are rarely used.) Similarly, we do occasionally find Excel sheets using formula grammar that we can't yet cope with, but that is rare these days. The biggest outstanding concerns on this front are user-interface issues (an Excel sheet that has some formatting that we don't properly duplicate, making it look wonky or even unreadable) or sheets that use VBA - we haven't yet implemented anything to deal with that. Jonathan -- Jonathan Hartley Made of meat. http://tartley.com tartley at tartley.com +44 7737 062 225 twitter/skype: tartley From a.harrowell at gmail.com Tue Dec 21 15:08:59 2010 From: a.harrowell at gmail.com (Alexander Harrowell) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 14:08:59 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: <4D10AE53.3030807@tartley.com> References: <4D10AE53.3030807@tartley.com> Message-ID: <201012211409.12664.a.harrowell@gmail.com> I've been parsing government data with BeautifulSoup and Scraperwiki, and working on visualising it with NetworkX and Matplotlib. -- The only thing worse than e-mail disclaimers...is people who send e-mail to lists complaining about them -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From ntoll at ntoll.org Tue Dec 21 14:57:15 2010 From: ntoll at ntoll.org (Nicholas Tollervey) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 13:57:15 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1292939835.2161.90.camel@ntoll-ubuntu> Hi Guys, Obviously I went to lots of London Python dojos... It's nice to see that the format is being used for other languages too (I know of at least Clojure and Scala dojos and plans for an Erlang one). We managed to finish our adventure game and plans are afoot for a new Pygame based project (see https://github.com/ntoll/PyMerryChristmas for a Christmas card from the dojo written with Pygame). The dojo has given me lots of learning opportunities and a chance for community building - so good to put names to faces/twitter accounts/IRC usernames etc... I've been using Python for just over two years now and I can safely say I'm having the most fun I've ever had as a developer. This year's highlights have been: * Delivering a large web-application built with Django for Fry-IT * Creating / collaborating on lots of FluidDB related clients / libraries: fluiddb.py, django-fluiddb, FOM (with Ali Afshar) and flimp. * Joining Fluidinfo full time has meant my first contact with Twisted. * Giving a hands-on Python workshop/tutorial to the NortHACKton guys. * Exploring the wider Python ecosystem. * Europython (at which I gave two talks and was great fun). Here's hoping 2011 is a good one for us all. Nicholas. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From meitham at meitham.com Tue Dec 21 15:40:39 2010 From: meitham at meitham.com (meitham) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 14:40:39 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Andy Robinson wrote: > Why don't a few people here tell us what they got up to this year? > Neat projects at work, things you learned about Python in 2010, things > you've been playing with.... I have worked this year on a web based data quality system written entirely in python. It is targeted towards business users. The system uses SQLAlchemy to reflect a database metadata and provides the users with a visual view of the database schema using django/jqGrid. It provides the users with ability to add rules and schedule them to run on specified periods. The rules can vary from regular expressions fields, sets of values, range of numbers, lookup values to another table or plain sql statements. The system can email alerts when a rule or a batch of rules identify bad data. It can also display charts that express data distribution using reportlab. Most of the web interface is done in an ajaxy way and django piston was big part of that. Happy holidays ... Meitham From fuzzyman at voidspace.org.uk Tue Dec 21 15:45:09 2010 From: fuzzyman at voidspace.org.uk (Michael Foord) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 14:45:09 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: <1292939835.2161.90.camel@ntoll-ubuntu> References: <1292939835.2161.90.camel@ntoll-ubuntu> Message-ID: <4D10BD75.7030309@voidspace.org.uk> Hello all, I started the year working for a German firm writing web applications with Django on the server and Silverlight on the front end. The front end application (about 20 000 lines) was written entirely in IronPython and running in the browser. Communication with django was almost exclusively sending and receiving json. In September I started working for Canonical, working on web services associated with Ubuntu Pay, the new software centre and the single sign on services for canonical websites. This is mostly working with django. unittest in the Python standard library has continued to evolve, which I've been heavily involved with along with a few other standard library tweaks (my favourites being contextlib.ContextDecorator and inspect.getattr_static plus backporting weakref.WeakSet to Python 2.7). Python 2.7 was released in 2010 as well as the first alphas and betas of 3.2. The changes to unittest are available in a backport to earlier versions of Python called unittest2 which has gained a surprisingly large number of users and will be incorporated in the next version of django. My 'other' testing project is mock, which is approaching a 0.7.0 release with a lot of new features. The blocker on getting the final version out of the door is a thorough review of the documentation. Hopefully I will find time for this over the christmas break. The beta seems to be getting a nice level of uptake though and no new bug reports since the last release... ConfigObj is still reasonably popular but I'm not using it a great deal myself these days, so I haven't worked much on it this year. A couple of folk ported it to Python 3 though, which is fantastic. In 2010 I attended PyCon US, EuroPython and PyCon Italia. All were fantastic and at EuroPython this year we had our first language summit and PSF members meeting. I'm currently helping with talk selection for PyCon US 2011 and organising the language and vm summits we will have there. We intend to repeat the language summits and PSF members meeting at EuroPython 2011. The EuroPython 2011 location is fantastic, so hopefully see you all there! All the best, Michael Foord -- http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ May you do good and not evil May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others May you share freely, never taking more than you give. -- the sqlite blessing http://www.sqlite.org/different.html From tartley at tartley.com Tue Dec 21 15:56:15 2010 From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 14:56:15 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: <4D10BD75.7030309@voidspace.org.uk> References: <1292939835.2161.90.camel@ntoll-ubuntu> <4D10BD75.7030309@voidspace.org.uk> Message-ID: <4D10C00F.8090004@tartley.com> On 21/12/2010 14:45, Michael Foord wrote: > my favourites being contextlib.ContextDecorator I didn't know that had your fingerprints on it! Nice one - I love this and use it all the time. Jonathan -- Jonathan Hartley Made of meat. http://tartley.com tartley at tartley.com +44 7737 062 225 twitter/skype: tartley From john.chandler.lists at googlemail.com Tue Dec 21 16:25:59 2010 From: john.chandler.lists at googlemail.com (John Chandler) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 15:25:59 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D10C707.7040307@gmail.com> On 20/12/2010 12:18, Andy Robinson wrote: > Why don't a few people here tell us what they got up to this year? > Neat projects at work, things you learned about Python in 2010, things > you've been playing with.... It's been an interesting year in Python for me. The London dojos have been fantastic - met some great people and learnt a lot of new skills. I also submitted some test coverage code to Python 3.2 while at EuroPython, which was cool. Until recently, I was maintaining Python-based data feed systems and using a liberal application of Python to fix things that weren't easy to fix using other tech. I'm now involved with a new company and doing prototyping work for redeveloping a huge system written in PHP and Perl, replacing particular core components with Python, Django and Celery. Hurray! Two personal projects have occupied me this year. The first is a wargame written using PyGame - the code is a mess and has been neglected the last few months. I plan to rewrite most of it based on lessons learnt and release the source code properly (it's in a private BitBucket repo at the moment). The second project is FluidInYourEar, which uses FluidDB as the backend database. It's a music band/genre browser which ultimately wants to become a communal music recommender (mostly heavy metal but could be anything). I'm midway porting it to Flask and Google's AppEngine, but don't have time to progress it at the moment. I gave a talk in October on FIYE which was the first time I've given a tech talk - hope to do more such talks next year, including one at PyCon AU 2011 if I can pluck up enough courage. John From tartley at tartley.com Tue Dec 21 16:33:32 2010 From: tartley at tartley.com (Jonathan Hartley) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 15:33:32 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: <4D10C707.7040307@gmail.com> References: <4D10C707.7040307@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4D10C8CC.6060609@tartley.com> > a wargame Hey. What sort of game? 2d? Turn-based? Hex tiles? Or what? And are you using Pygame or pyglet or something else? On 21/12/2010 15:25, John Chandler wrote: > On 20/12/2010 12:18, Andy Robinson wrote: >> Why don't a few people here tell us what they got up to this year? >> Neat projects at work, things you learned about Python in 2010, things >> you've been playing with.... > It's been an interesting year in Python for me. The London dojos have > been fantastic - met some great people and learnt a lot of new skills. > I also submitted some test coverage code to Python 3.2 while at > EuroPython, which was cool. > > Until recently, I was maintaining Python-based data feed systems and > using a liberal application of Python to fix things that weren't easy > to fix using other tech. I'm now involved with a new company and doing > prototyping work for redeveloping a huge system written in PHP and > Perl, replacing particular core components with Python, Django and > Celery. Hurray! > > Two personal projects have occupied me this year. The first is a > wargame written using PyGame - the code is a mess and has been > neglected the last few months. I plan to rewrite most of it based on > lessons learnt and release the source code properly (it's in a private > BitBucket repo at the moment). > > The second project is FluidInYourEar, which uses FluidDB as the > backend database. It's a music band/genre browser which ultimately > wants to become a communal music recommender (mostly heavy metal but > could be anything). I'm midway porting it to Flask and Google's > AppEngine, but don't have time to progress it at the moment. I gave a > talk in October on FIYE which was the first time I've given a tech > talk - hope to do more such talks next year, including one at PyCon AU > 2011 if I can pluck up enough courage. > > > John > > > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk -- Jonathan Hartley Made of meat. http://tartley.com tartley at tartley.com +44 7737 062 225 twitter/skype: tartley From doug.winter at isotoma.com Tue Dec 21 17:54:48 2010 From: doug.winter at isotoma.com (Doug Winter) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 16:54:48 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] More (nearly OT) Jobs Message-ID: <4D10DBD8.80609@isotoma.com> These aren't really off topic since we do everything in Python, so a lot of Python is involved. They aren't coder jobs though ;) We're looking for SysAdmins: http://www.isotoma.com/vacancies/system-administrators And we're looking for a Head of QA: http://www.isotoma.com/vacancies/head-of-quality-assurance All based oop north here in lovely York. If you, or anyone you know, would like to apply or to chat about them then just drop me an email. Cheers, Doug. -- Telephone: +44 1904 567330, Mobile: +44 7879 423002 Switchboard: +44 1904 567349, Fax: +44 20 79006980 Post: Tower House, Fishergate, York, YO10 4UA, UK Registered in England. Company No 5171172. VAT GB843570325. Regd Office: 3&4 Park Court, Riccall Road, Escrick, York, YO19 6ED From javier at correo.com Tue Dec 21 18:10:01 2010 From: javier at correo.com (Javier Llopis) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 17:10:01 -0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > As an attempt to generate some content and balance out the "jobs" > discussion.... > > Why don't a few people here tell us what they got up to this year? > Neat projects at work, things you learned about Python in 2010, things > you've been playing with.... I have automated an ill-thought process that used to involve creating an ad-hoc 1500 line windows batch program to carry out an unattended remote installation every time my company tried to deploy new content on their large network of Video Lottery Terminals. I was hired basically to help develop those silly windows batch programs which were creating a bottleneck, and by writing step by step a 5000 line python program that automatically generated the batch programs, the bottleneck went elsewhere. The whole process is as ill-thought as ever, but I'm no longer stressed, and they haven't had to replace the members of the team who left the company, effectively downsizing it from five to two people. I have also used Python to do lots of file processing, one time programs. Cheers Javier From john.chandler.lists at googlemail.com Tue Dec 21 18:18:47 2010 From: john.chandler.lists at googlemail.com (John Chandler) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 17:18:47 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: <4D10C8CC.6060609@tartley.com> References: <4D10C707.7040307@gmail.com> <4D10C8CC.6060609@tartley.com> Message-ID: <4D10E177.9080506@gmail.com> On 21/12/2010 15:33, Jonathan Hartley wrote: > > a wargame > > Hey. What sort of game? 2d? Turn-based? Hex tiles? Or what? And are > you using Pygame or pyglet or something else? It's using PyGame. 2D, solitaire, turn-based, irregular area maps (sort of like Hearts of Iron II), with a bit of politics and management thrown in as well as combat. I was learning to use PyGame and ran before I could walk. Now I know better, hence the need to revise the code :-) John From fuzzyman at voidspace.org.uk Tue Dec 21 19:09:15 2010 From: fuzzyman at voidspace.org.uk (Michael Foord) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 18:09:15 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: <4D10C00F.8090004@tartley.com> References: <1292939835.2161.90.camel@ntoll-ubuntu> <4D10BD75.7030309@voidspace.org.uk> <4D10C00F.8090004@tartley.com> Message-ID: On 21 December 2010 14:56, Jonathan Hartley wrote: > On 21/12/2010 14:45, Michael Foord wrote: > >> my favourites being contextlib.ContextDecorator >> > > I didn't know that had your fingerprints on it! Nice one - I love this and > use it all the time. > > It came out of the pattern used in mock where patch (and other decorators) also work as context managers. This was first implemented at Resolver Systems... (I think it was Tom's idea.) All the best, Michael > > Jonathan > > -- > Jonathan Hartley Made of meat. http://tartley.com > tartley at tartley.com +44 7737 062 225 twitter/skype: tartley > > > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > -- http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ May you do good and not evil May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others May you share freely, never taking more than you give. -- the sqlite blessing http://www.sqlite.org/different.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fuzzyman at voidspace.org.uk Tue Dec 21 19:10:04 2010 From: fuzzyman at voidspace.org.uk (Michael Foord) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 18:10:04 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 21 December 2010 17:10, Javier Llopis wrote: > > As an attempt to generate some content and balance out the "jobs" > > discussion.... > > > > Why don't a few people here tell us what they got up to this year? > > Neat projects at work, things you learned about Python in 2010, things > > you've been playing with.... > > I have automated an ill-thought process that used to involve creating an > ad-hoc 1500 line windows batch program to carry out an unattended remote > installation every time my company tried to deploy new content on their > large network of Video Lottery Terminals. > > I was hired basically to help develop those silly windows batch programs > which were creating a bottleneck, and by writing step by step a 5000 line > python program that automatically generated the batch programs, the > bottleneck went elsewhere. The whole process is as ill-thought as ever, > but I'm no longer stressed, and they haven't had to replace the members of > the team who left the company, effectively downsizing it from five to two > people. > Yay for Python replacing people. Uhm, I think... ;-) Michael > > I have also used Python to do lots of file processing, one time programs. > > Cheers > > Javier > > > _______________________________________________ > python-uk mailing list > python-uk at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > -- http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ May you do good and not evil May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others May you share freely, never taking more than you give. -- the sqlite blessing http://www.sqlite.org/different.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From flub at devork.be Tue Dec 21 19:28:53 2010 From: flub at devork.be (Floris Bruynooghe) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 18:28:53 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: References: <1292939835.2161.90.camel@ntoll-ubuntu> <4D10BD75.7030309@voidspace.org.uk> <4D10C00F.8090004@tartley.com> Message-ID: On 21 December 2010 18:09, Michael Foord wrote: > > > On 21 December 2010 14:56, Jonathan Hartley wrote: >> >> On 21/12/2010 14:45, Michael Foord wrote: >>> >>> my favourites being contextlib.ContextDecorator >> >> I didn't know that had your fingerprints on it! Nice one - I love this and >> use it all the time. > > It came out of the pattern used in mock where patch (and other decorators) > also work as context managers. This was first implemented at Resolver > Systems... (I think it was Tom's idea.) Heh neat that has made it into the stdlib, even neater that it's used in contextlib.contextmanager by default. I had no idea! Though rather disappointing that it is no longer a cute hack to impress people with ;-) FWIW I'd first heard of it from Dave Beazley's blog, I guess it got invented in several places at the same time which must be a good sign too. Regards Floris -- Debian GNU/Linux -- The Power of Freedom www.debian.org | www.gnu.org | www.kernel.org From jjl at pobox.com Tue Dec 21 20:49:26 2010 From: jjl at pobox.com (John J Lee) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 19:49:26 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [python-uk] urllib latency In-Reply-To: References: <66EE2F2B-126A-470C-AE6D-0E26809B1B24@netsight.co.uk> <2603A7BA-798E-48CE-8C49-E86B0F654A15@netsight.co.uk> <4D0F83A1.4070909@isotoma.com> <6AFDD19B-45DB-4858-90BA-BD761C8B6250@netsight.co.uk> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Dec 2010, Matt Hamilton wrote: [...] > And then re-running the tests from the same python prompt that was open > just before I wrote that email and I now have the 100ms delay back > again... yet not still in ab. Quitting and starting a new python process > and I still have the delay. I guess this is obvious advice, but then again we all need the obvious stated from time to time: Since it seems to be tricky maybe a more mechanical approach would help -- reproduce it with a script that just uses module socket, then reproduce it with the equivalent C program if necessary? Then if it's still not apparent, to keep zeroing in on what is different between ab and your script, you can go in the other direction, simplifying the ab code drastically, until your two programs are identical apart from the one thing that makes the Python code slower (hopefully you'll spot the problem before that happens ;-). John From rlotun at gmail.com Wed Dec 22 12:23:28 2010 From: rlotun at gmail.com (Reza Lotun) Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 11:23:28 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Andy Robinson wrote: > As an attempt to generate some content and balance out the "jobs" discussion.... > > Why don't a few people here tell us what they got up to this year? > Neat projects at work, things you learned about Python in 2010, things > you've been playing with.... > > I'm having a mad day but will try to post mine tonight or tomorrow... At TweetDeck we've built our REST API on Twisted over Amazon EC2 and SimpleDB. We also rolled out a scheduled update (delay tweeting/updating in time to hit other timezones, etc), over RabbitMQ and Celery. We also continued extending our website, which is implemented in Django. Perhaps most interesting out of this is working both with synchronous and asynchronous code. We have common libraries implementing clients for dozens of REST apis that we use both on the Django and Twisted side. You usually have to choose one path or the other, but this year I've repurposed this common library to do either, depending on an instantiation argument. It turned out to not be so bad - but then why would it be? Most libraries out there blindly implement a synchronous model without realizing that splitting the request and response code is actually quite easy - and doing this makes it also easy to convert this to asynchronous code. # Usual synchronous code def get_foo(arg1, arg2): args = prepare_request() result = make_blocking_call() # usually uses something from httplib or httplib2 do_stuff(result) do_more_stuff(result) # async friendly version of the above def get_foo_nicer(arg1, arg2): args = prepare_request() result = make_maybe_blocking_call() def post_process(result): do_stuff(result) do_more_stuff(result) post_process(result) The second version is exactly the same as the previous, but now it becomes much easier to make it async (rather, Twisted aware). The key player to *making* this async-aware is the Deferred - that is, a "promise" that a result of the request will eventually appear. Then, you can make the last line slightly more intelligent by calling another method, which decides to magically apply the post_process function in the usual synchronous case, or add it as a callback to the deferred in the asynchronous case. I've implemented this pattern into boto in a "async aware" branch and it seems to work quite nicely, without disrupting much code. It strikes me a something that could easily be emulated in most other libraries Anyway, I thought that was mildly interesting and worth sharing. Merry Christmas everyone, and Happy New Year! Reza -- Reza Lotun mobile: +44 (0)7521 310 763 email:? rlotun at gmail.com work:?? reza at tweetdeck.com twitter: @rlotun From doug.winter at isotoma.com Wed Dec 22 12:38:35 2010 From: doug.winter at isotoma.com (Doug Winter) Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 11:38:35 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D11E33B.8060203@isotoma.com> Reza Lotun wrote: > # async friendly version of the above > def get_foo_nicer(arg1, arg2): > args = prepare_request() > result = make_maybe_blocking_call() > def post_process(result): > do_stuff(result) > do_more_stuff(result) > post_process(result) > > The second version is exactly the same as the previous, but now it > becomes much easier to make it async (rather, Twisted aware). The key Nice idea making your synchronous code work like this too. Have you considered using the @inlineCallbacks decorator instead? I bet you could make that work too, you could write your own decorator that uses inlineCallbacks or something synchronous, then the above becomes: @cleverInlineCallbacks def get_foo(arg1, arg2): args = prepare_request() result = yield make_maybe_blocking_call() do_stuff(result) finalValue = do_more_stuff(result) defer.returnValue(finalValue) Which can be a lot neater when you get stacks and stacks of callbacks. Python's lack of a block construct otherwise makes that really unpleasant. Cheers, Doug. -- Telephone: +44 1904 567330, Mobile: +44 7879 423002 Switchboard: +44 1904 567349, Fax: +44 20 79006980 Post: Tower House, Fishergate, York, YO10 4UA, UK Registered in England. Company No 5171172. VAT GB843570325. Regd Office: 3&4 Park Court, Riccall Road, Escrick, York, YO19 6ED From rlotun at gmail.com Wed Dec 22 12:44:29 2010 From: rlotun at gmail.com (Reza Lotun) Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 11:44:29 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: <4D11E33B.8060203@isotoma.com> References: <4D11E33B.8060203@isotoma.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 11:38 AM, Doug Winter wrote: > Have you considered using the @inlineCallbacks decorator instead? ?I bet > you could make that work too, you could write your own decorator that > uses inlineCallbacks or something synchronous, then the above becomes: > ... Good point - I like inlineCallbacks for certain things like tests and initialization steps, but I try to avoid them in general because it's too easy to write problematic code with them. I actually fleshed out these reasons in this stackoverflow answer: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3894278/twisted-deferred-addcallback-vs-yield-and-inlinedeferred/3954427#3954427 Cheers, Reza -- Reza Lotun mobile: +44 (0)7521 310 763 email:? rlotun at gmail.com work:?? reza at tweetdeck.com twitter: @rlotun From lists at alexdutton.co.uk Wed Dec 22 13:00:32 2010 From: lists at alexdutton.co.uk (Alexander Dutton) Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 12:00:32 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: <4D11E33B.8060203@isotoma.com> References: <4D11E33B.8060203@isotoma.com> Message-ID: <4D11E860.7020900@alexdutton.co.uk> On 22/12/10 11:38, Doug Winter wrote: > [?] > result = yield make_maybe_blocking_call() > [?] This looks similar to Dave Beazley's use of coroutines to implement concurrency without threading. In Dave's case, the yielded expression is a request for the scheduler to perform some action at its leisure. When the scheduler has a result it's passed back in to the coroutine using the send() method and the coroutine continues on its way until the next yield. It's described in the PDF linked from . The whole thing is worth a read (I think 'mind-bogglingly impressive' sums it up quite nicely), but if you want an example then the first instance of this I can find is on slide 135 (page 68). All the best, Alex From gregsdev at gmail.com Wed Dec 22 13:43:14 2010 From: gregsdev at gmail.com (greg nwosu) Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 12:43:14 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with python this year Message-ID: I have had a number of python projects, my happiest one was one that scraped government websites for jobs and then applied for those with semi fitting criteria. I was unemployed at the time with unemployment insurance but my insurers wanted proof that I'd been looking. 24 hours hacking and 1 cron job later , I had a script that scraped a government website for jobs, applied for jobs via email , saved applied for jobs in a Django database (so I couldnt apply twice) and sent a monthly report to my insurer. Bingo, paid holiday for a year. Created a couple of Django simple Django websites. Built a python robot for Google wave, that did the background research for finding references (http://vimeo.com/5772930) for the document you are collaboratively typing , only that my robot did legal research screen scraper robot to spam gumtree with my girlfriends flat that she was trying to advertise, turned out to be 8 times as good as the estate agents she was paying currently playing a bit with NLTK, Twisted and using mechanize to scrape facebook for nefarious reasons, im getting into functional programming recently have the ephinany that if I want to write a functional screen scraper I must view the mechanize.Browser as data! future plans are to use twisted and/or google app engine to massively parallelize my scraper Also got involved with planning the python dojos , but so far have been a no show to every single one *cringe* Greg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rod.hyde at gmail.com Wed Dec 22 15:20:44 2010 From: rod.hyde at gmail.com (Rod Hyde) Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 14:20:44 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with python this year In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I didn't think I did all that much with Python this year other than throwing together a few "one off" scripts to collate and analyze data from several thousand tills. These so-called "one off" scripts have been remarkably useful and they saved one of our teams a lot of time by automating what was previously a rather time consuming, ad hoc process. That being said, our client's demand for stats is insatiable. Last year I did a bit more. We had what appeared to be a performance issue with online authorisation for a POS system. We suspected that the problems were coming from an external system, but couldn't prove it given the data that we had. We used Stackless Python, along with a useful little framework called Concurrence (http://opensource.hyves.org/concurrence/), to write some performance testing utilities to demonstrate that the POS system was indeed fit for purpose and that the cause of the problem was external. --- Rod -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mfoord at python.org Wed Dec 22 18:19:14 2010 From: mfoord at python.org (Michael Foord) Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 17:19:14 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Tell us what you did with Python this year.... In-Reply-To: References: <1292939835.2161.90.camel@ntoll-ubuntu> <4D10BD75.7030309@voidspace.org.uk> <4D10C00F.8090004@tartley.com> Message-ID: <4D123312.6090000@python.org> On 21/12/2010 18:28, Floris Bruynooghe wrote: > On 21 December 2010 18:09, Michael Foord wrote: >> >> On 21 December 2010 14:56, Jonathan Hartley wrote: >>> On 21/12/2010 14:45, Michael Foord wrote: >>>> my favourites being contextlib.ContextDecorator >>> I didn't know that had your fingerprints on it! Nice one - I love this and >>> use it all the time. >> It came out of the pattern used in mock where patch (and other decorators) >> also work as context managers. This was first implemented at Resolver >> Systems... (I think it was Tom's idea.) > Heh neat that has made it into the stdlib, even neater that it's used > in contextlib.contextmanager by default. I had no idea! Though > rather disappointing that it is no longer a cute hack to impress > people with ;-) > > FWIW I'd first heard of it from Dave Beazley's blog, I guess it got > invented in several places at the same time which must be a good sign > too. > I think there was similar code in django and also py.test (making APIs that works as both context managers and decorators) - the fact that it was an established pattern than several people had found useful already is why we added it to the standard library. :-) Michael > Regards > Floris > > -- http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ May you do good and not evil May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others May you share freely, never taking more than you give. -- the sqlite blessing http://www.sqlite.org/different.html From james at pythonweb.org Fri Dec 24 19:18:03 2010 From: james at pythonweb.org (James Gardner) Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 18:18:03 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Introducing CKAN (Open Knowledge Foundation) Message-ID: <1293214683.11975.34.camel@feynman> Hi all, For those of you who haven't heard about the Open Knowledge Foundation we are a not-for-profit promoting open knowledge: that's any kind of information - sonnets to statistics, genes to geodata - that can be freely used, reused, and redistributed [1] and we rely heavily on Python for a lot of our work. One of our key products is called CKAN [2]. It's an open source, web-based data catalogue written in Pylons, SQLAlchemy and Genshi which is used by various organisations, governments and councils around the world to help them organise and share data with the public. Most notably it powers the UK government's http://data.gov.uk site which you may have seen in the news when the UK government released details of all department's spending over ?25,000 [3]. CKAN is rapidly becoming very popular so we are looking for more people who are passionate about open knowledge to join our team. Although we do have voluntary contributors we are particularly interested in hiring expert Python web developers (probably as contractors and based in London if possible) so I wanted to draw your attention to the links below in case you are interested: http://www.python.org/community/jobs/index.html?#open-knowledge-foundation-worldwide-but-particularly-london http://blog.ckan.org/2010/12/16/python-web-expert-jobs/ Beyond that it would just be nice to connect with other people on this list who are interested in open data and Python so do get in touch with me (on or off list) if this is your sort of thing. Happy Christmas all, James Personal blog: http://jimmyg.org/blog [1] The Open Knowledge Foundation: http://okfn.org [2] CKAN developer site http://ckan.org and catalogue: http://ckan.net [3] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11795313 From martin.goodson at dpag.ox.ac.uk Fri Dec 24 20:50:17 2010 From: martin.goodson at dpag.ox.ac.uk (Martin Goodson) Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 19:50:17 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Introducing CKAN (Open Knowledge Foundation) In-Reply-To: <1293214683.11975.34.camel@feynman> References: <1293214683.11975.34.camel@feynman> Message-ID: <59E43D5C-5577-4FDD-9255-3120EC42CC78@dpag.ox.ac.uk> Interesting. I've often thought its such a shame there is no centralised data catalog in my field of biomedical research. There is a great culture of openness in the community of scientists but all the data sets are in disparate corners of the web. If I want some data on some particular aspect of biology (which is bound to be out there on someones departmental website somewhere) most of the time I wouldn't know where to start. Its a shame because there is so much data out there. Anyway, probably just a pipedream, but it would be nice. Martin On 24 Dec 2010, at 18:18, James Gardner wrote: Hi all, For those of you who haven't heard about the Open Knowledge Foundation we are a not-for-profit promoting open knowledge: that's any kind of information - sonnets to statistics, genes to geodata - that can be freely used, reused, and redistributed [1] and we rely heavily on Python for a lot of our work. One of our key products is called CKAN [2]. It's an open source, web-based data catalogue written in Pylons, SQLAlchemy and Genshi which is used by various organisations, governments and councils around the world to help them organise and share data with the public. Most notably it powers the UK government's http://data.gov.uk site which you may have seen in the news when the UK government released details of all department's spending over ?25,000 [3]. CKAN is rapidly becoming very popular so we are looking for more people who are passionate about open knowledge to join our team. Although we do have voluntary contributors we are particularly interested in hiring expert Python web developers (probably as contractors and based in London if possible) so I wanted to draw your attention to the links below in case you are interested: http://www.python.org/community/jobs/index.html?#open-knowledge-foundation-worldwide-but-particularly-london http://blog.ckan.org/2010/12/16/python-web-expert-jobs/ Beyond that it would just be nice to connect with other people on this list who are interested in open data and Python so do get in touch with me (on or off list) if this is your sort of thing. Happy Christmas all, James Personal blog: http://jimmyg.org/blog [1] The Open Knowledge Foundation: http://okfn.org [2] CKAN developer site http://ckan.org and catalogue: http://ckan.net [3] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11795313 _______________________________________________ python-uk mailing list python-uk at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk From martin.goodson at dpag.ox.ac.uk Fri Dec 24 20:54:04 2010 From: martin.goodson at dpag.ox.ac.uk (Martin Goodson) Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 19:54:04 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Introducing CKAN (Open Knowledge Foundation) In-Reply-To: <59E43D5C-5577-4FDD-9255-3120EC42CC78@dpag.ox.ac.uk> References: <1293214683.11975.34.camel@feynman> <59E43D5C-5577-4FDD-9255-3120EC42CC78@dpag.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: sorry - didn't mean to post to the whole list! On 24 Dec 2010, at 19:50, Martin Goodson wrote: Interesting. I've often thought its such a shame there is no centralised data catalog in my field of biomedical research. There is a great culture of openness in the community of scientists but all the data sets are in disparate corners of the web. If I want some data on some particular aspect of biology (which is bound to be out there on someones departmental website somewhere) most of the time I wouldn't know where to start. Its a shame because there is so much data out there. Anyway, probably just a pipedream, but it would be nice. Martin On 24 Dec 2010, at 18:18, James Gardner wrote: Hi all, For those of you who haven't heard about the Open Knowledge Foundation we are a not-for-profit promoting open knowledge: that's any kind of information - sonnets to statistics, genes to geodata - that can be freely used, reused, and redistributed [1] and we rely heavily on Python for a lot of our work. One of our key products is called CKAN [2]. It's an open source, web-based data catalogue written in Pylons, SQLAlchemy and Genshi which is used by various organisations, governments and councils around the world to help them organise and share data with the public. Most notably it powers the UK government's http://data.gov.uk site which you may have seen in the news when the UK government released details of all department's spending over ?25,000 [3]. CKAN is rapidly becoming very popular so we are looking for more people who are passionate about open knowledge to join our team. Although we do have voluntary contributors we are particularly interested in hiring expert Python web developers (probably as contractors and based in London if possible) so I wanted to draw your attention to the links below in case you are interested: http://www.python.org/community/jobs/index.html?#open-knowledge-foundation-worldwide-but-particularly-london http://blog.ckan.org/2010/12/16/python-web-expert-jobs/ Beyond that it would just be nice to connect with other people on this list who are interested in open data and Python so do get in touch with me (on or off list) if this is your sort of thing. Happy Christmas all, James Personal blog: http://jimmyg.org/blog [1] The Open Knowledge Foundation: http://okfn.org [2] CKAN developer site http://ckan.org and catalogue: http://ckan.net [3] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11795313 _______________________________________________ python-uk mailing list python-uk at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk _______________________________________________ python-uk mailing list python-uk at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk From james at pythonweb.org Fri Dec 24 21:22:04 2010 From: james at pythonweb.org (James Gardner) Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 20:22:04 +0000 Subject: [python-uk] Introducing CKAN (Open Knowledge Foundation) In-Reply-To: References: <1293214683.11975.34.camel@feynman> <59E43D5C-5577-4FDD-9255-3120EC42CC78@dpag.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1293222124.11975.45.camel@feynman> Hi Martin, > sorry - didn't mean to post to the whole list! Well, maybe there are others interested too, but if not I'll stop replying on list as well. > Interesting. I've often thought its such a shame there is no > centralised data catalog in my field of biomedical research. > There is a great culture of openness in the community of scientists > but all the data sets are in disparate corners of the web. If I want > some data on some particular aspect of biology (which is bound to be > out there on someones departmental website somewhere) most of the > time I wouldn't know where to start. Its a shame because there is so > much data out there. Anyway, probably just a pipedream, but it would > be nice. Yes, that's exactly the sort of thing CKAN should be used for. My own background (before starting the Pylons project) is in Physics and there is a similar problem there. Just this week I was drafting a quick blog post about the Voyager 1 spacecraft reaching a distant point at the edge of the solar system [1] and it would be nice to be able to have all the data published somewhere centrally along with a brief analysis and some preview graphs. At the moment people can either re-use ckan.net and tag things with "physics" or "biology" but I'd love to set up an instance specifically for Biology data sets if you thought it might catch on? What are the obstacles preventing scientists publishing their data somewhere central? Is it just lack of a network effect do you think? Cheers, James [1] http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/voyager/voyager20101213.html From alec.battles at gmail.com Sat Dec 25 14:26:18 2010 From: alec.battles at gmail.com (Alec Battles) Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2010 22:26:18 +0900 Subject: [python-uk] Introducing CKAN (Open Knowledge Foundation) In-Reply-To: <1293222124.11975.45.camel@feynman> References: <1293214683.11975.34.camel@feynman> <59E43D5C-5577-4FDD-9255-3120EC42CC78@dpag.ox.ac.uk> <1293222124.11975.45.camel@feynman> Message-ID: > Hi Martin, > >> sorry - didn't mean to post to the whole list! > > Well, maybe there are others interested too, but if not I'll stop > replying on list as well. I've only ever noticed this distinction matter on stuffy academic lists. Alec