From andy@robanal.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 1 12:01:52 1999 From: andy@robanal.demon.co.uk (andy@robanal.demon.co.uk) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 11:01:52 GMT Subject: [Python-uk] Almost the first UK Python meeting Message-ID: <7t24as$nd0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> The second meeting of the UK Python User's Group (that's a working title) will take place as follows: Where: Princess Louise pub Bloomsbury 208 High Holborn St. London 0171-405-8816 Holborn Station, Central/Picdadilly Lines When: Monday 4th October, any time after 18:00 Dress Code: Try to look like a Python fan :-) The first meeting was last Wednesday in Cambridge. Any UK Python users are welcome to join the python-uk mailing list at http://starship.python.net/mailman/listinfo/python-uk Regards, Andy Robinson Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. From andy@robanal.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 1 12:01:52 1999 From: andy@robanal.demon.co.uk (andy@robanal.demon.co.uk) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 11:01:52 GMT Subject: [Python-uk] Almost the first UK Python meeting Message-ID: <199910011101.GAA04450@x37.deja.com> The second meeting of the UK Python User's Group (that's a working title) will take place as follows: Where: Princess Louise pub Bloomsbury 208 High Holborn St. London 0171-405-8816 Holborn Station, Central/Picdadilly Lines When: Monday 4th October, any time after 18:00 Dress Code: Try to look like a Python fan :-) The first meeting was last Wednesday in Cambridge. Any UK Python users are welcome to join the python-uk mailing list at http://starship.python.net/mailman/listinfo/python-uk Regards, Andy Robinson From mwh21@cam.ac.uk Sat Oct 2 10:36:37 1999 From: mwh21@cam.ac.uk (Michael Hudson) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 10:36:37 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Python-uk] Re: First Cambridge Python meeting - it happened In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Sep 1999, Edward Welbourne wrote: > Collating the information from replies received, it looks like Monday > and Thursday have the viable evenings for meetings; for the present, > I'll suggest Thursday and listen for any screams of protest. About a > fortnight hence seems like a practical time to gather again; the Maypole > seems to be a good candidate location. So how do folk respond to > Thursday October 14th, 8pm at the Maypole ? Sounds good to me. > What're our chances of exceeding two ;^? Well, I can bump to three. > Eddy. Michael - now back in Cambridge From a.eyre@optichrome.com Tue Oct 5 09:39:34 1999 From: a.eyre@optichrome.com (Adrian Eyre) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:39:34 +0100 Subject: [Python-uk] Almost the first UK Python meeting In-Reply-To: <7t24as$nd0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Message-ID: <000c01bf0f0d$26412be0$3acbd9c2@peridot.optichrome.com> > The second meeting of the UK Python User's Group > (that's a working title) will take place as follows: Did anyone make it to this? -------------------------------------------- Adrian Eyre Optichrome Computer Solutions Ltd Maybury Road, Woking, Surrey, GU21 5HX, UK Tel: +44 1483 740 233 Fax: +44 1483 760 644 http://www.optichrome.com -------------------------------------------- From mcharlto@nortelnetworks.com Tue Oct 5 09:39:42 1999 From: mcharlto@nortelnetworks.com (Michael Charlton) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:39:42 +0100 Subject: [Python-uk] Second U.K. meeting Message-ID: The second U.K. meeting of the python users group took place last night at the Princess Louise pub central London. In attendance were: Andy Robinson James Cooley Laurie Tratt Michael Charlton Talk and beer followed by a slap up meal (and more talk) at the Tokyo Diner. This was just a kick-off meeting to gauge interest in Python and to see if it would be feasible to hold another meeting. One topic for discussion was raising the profile of python in both industry and the media. Any ideas? Also what format do you want a meeting to take?. Again post your comments/criticisms/ideas here. Feedback appreciated Regards Michael. Michael Charlton Nortel Networks GSM HLR-PS Product Verification Email: Michael.Charlton@nortelnetworks.com > Phone: ESN 590 4963 Intl: +44 1628 43 4963 > Fax: ESN 590 4381 Intl: +44 1628 43 4381 > Address: 3 Roxborough Way, Foundation Park, Maidenhead > BERKS, SL6 2UD, United Kingdom > From james.cooley@jcp.co.uk Tue Oct 5 09:42:50 1999 From: james.cooley@jcp.co.uk (James Cooley) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 09:42:50 +0100 Subject: [Python-uk] Almost the first UK Python meeting References: <000c01bf0f0d$26412be0$3acbd9c2@peridot.optichrome.com> Message-ID: <37F9BA0A.E127B837@jcp.co.uk> four brave Pythoneers - Michael Charlton was elected secretary and offered to do the mins they should be with you soon. James Adrian Eyre wrote: > > > The second meeting of the UK Python User's Group > > (that's a working title) will take place as follows: > > Did anyone make it to this? > > -------------------------------------------- > Adrian Eyre > Optichrome Computer Solutions Ltd > Maybury Road, Woking, Surrey, GU21 5HX, UK > Tel: +44 1483 740 233 Fax: +44 1483 760 644 > http://www.optichrome.com > -------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > Python-uk maillist - Python-uk@starship.python.net > http://starship.python.net/mailman/listinfo/python-uk -- James Cooley [+44 (0)171-6896924] JCP Computer Services, 16 St Johns Lane, London, EC1M 4BS, UK. PGP Key ID : 0x28CA7769 fingerprint: A39D 1357 89EF 3707 2D62 050B 6AA1 4D03 28CA 7769 From Gary.Pennington@uk.sun.com Wed Oct 6 08:46:10 1999 From: Gary.Pennington@uk.sun.com (Gary Pennington) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 08:46:10 +0100 Subject: [Python-uk] Second U.K. meeting References: Message-ID: <37FAFE42.C6687D01@uk.sun.com> Hi, I'm promoting Python inside Sun as a rapid prototyping development tool which is exceptionally well integrated with Java(through JPython). I'm making a few converts but progress is very slow, lots of Java and Perl language bigots and very few people with a sufficiently open mind to consider alternatives. Now that's inside Sun ( a relatively open-minded sort of place)!! I wonder how people are getting on elsewhere? Anyway, I think that the best way to raise Python's profile is through a combination of the tried and tested techniques of :- Product Placement/Positioning Interviews Magazine/Journal Articles Case Studies Promote Python role in Project/Product e.g I just finished writing X and it uses Python as a customisable scripting language, etc... Internal Meetings Architect BrainDump Meetings Development Strategy Meetings Development Proposals External Meetings BCS Branch Meetings BCS Specialist Group (whichever is most appropriate or a new one for Python?) Other Computing Professional Organisations (OCPO - new acronym?) Meetings Academic Meetings At some point if everyong plugs away at the above then we should make some progress. If someone volunteered to co-ordinate the above and capture feedback then we could all see the big picture and be heartened by the progress that is being made. Maybe publish the informaton on a website, maybe make the website a capture point where people could enter feedback directly and make the system self-documenting? Gary PS I don't have time to do the co-ordination role, but I would be able to put in a tiny amount of time to setting up such a website if one could be organised and managed by somebody. PPS A small fund for promoting Python? Subs to cover PSA membership and website maintenance. Michael Charlton wrote: > > > > The second U.K. meeting of the python users group took place last > night > at the Princess Louise pub central London. In attendance were: > > Andy Robinson > James Cooley > Laurie Tratt > Michael Charlton > > Talk and beer followed by a slap up meal (and more talk) at the > Tokyo Diner. > > This was just a kick-off meeting to gauge interest in Python and to > see if it > would be feasible to hold another meeting. > > One topic for discussion was raising the profile of python in both > industry and > the media. Any ideas? > > Also what format do you want a meeting to take?. Again post your > comments/criticisms/ideas > here. > > Feedback appreciated > > Regards > > > Michael. > > > Michael Charlton > Nortel Networks > GSM HLR-PS Product Verification > Email: Michael.Charlton@nortelnetworks.com > > Phone: ESN 590 4963 Intl: +44 1628 43 4963 > > Fax: ESN 590 4381 Intl: +44 1628 43 4381 > > Address: 3 Roxborough Way, Foundation Park, Maidenhead > > BERKS, SL6 2UD, United Kingdom > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Python-uk maillist - Python-uk@starship.python.net > http://starship.python.net/mailman/listinfo/python-uk From james.cooley@jcp.co.uk Wed Oct 6 10:47:18 1999 From: james.cooley@jcp.co.uk (James Cooley) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 10:47:18 +0100 Subject: [Python-uk] Re: Promoting Python interally References: <37FAFE42.C6687D01@uk.sun.com> Message-ID: <37FB1AA6.D0AFE10D@jcp.co.uk> At the meeting last Tuesday Andy R. said it was easy to get sign-off for "disposable" projects in Python but it was difficult to make real progress in many organizations. It is difficult to motivate people to try a new language as most people are illiterate in more than one (programming) language already and are still trying to figure out C/C++ for that next job. Guido's "Computer Programming for Everybody" project is definitely a good way to increase the Python user base. I work in a Java shop and it is difficult to get anyone to try JPython even though I think it is a great productivity enhancer. One guy wrote his on language to interpret Java code (a la beanshell) to test his code rather than looking at a new language - perhaps he would make a good case study for problems in promoting a new language. :) Given the environment of information overload we inhabit people do tend to have quite stubborn filters to some things - especially languages. My 2 pence, James Gary Pennington wrote: > > Hi, > > I'm promoting Python inside Sun as a rapid prototyping development tool > which is exceptionally well integrated with Java(through JPython). I'm > making a few converts but progress is very slow, lots of Java and Perl > language bigots and very few people with a sufficiently open mind to > consider alternatives. > > Now that's inside Sun ( a relatively open-minded sort of place)!! I > wonder how people are getting on elsewhere? > > Anyway, I think that the best way to raise Python's profile is through a > combination of the tried and tested techniques of :- > > Product Placement/Positioning > Interviews > Magazine/Journal Articles > > Case Studies > Promote Python role in Project/Product > e.g I just finished writing X and it uses Python as a customisable > scripting language, etc... > > Internal Meetings > Architect BrainDump Meetings > Development Strategy Meetings > Development Proposals > > External Meetings > BCS Branch Meetings > BCS Specialist Group (whichever is most appropriate or a new one for > Python?) > Other Computing Professional Organisations (OCPO - new acronym?) > Meetings > Academic Meetings > > At some point if everyong plugs away at the above then we should make > some progress. If someone volunteered to co-ordinate the above and > capture feedback then we could all see the big picture and be heartened > by the progress that is being made. Maybe publish the informaton on a > website, maybe make the website a capture point where people could enter > feedback directly and make the system self-documenting? > > Gary > > PS I don't have time to do the co-ordination role, but I would be able > to put in a tiny amount of time to setting up such a website if one > could be organised and managed by somebody. > > PPS A small fund for promoting Python? Subs to cover PSA membership and > website maintenance. > > Michael Charlton wrote: > > > > > > > > The second U.K. meeting of the python users group took place last > > night > > at the Princess Louise pub central London. In attendance were: > > > > Andy Robinson > > James Cooley > > Laurie Tratt > > Michael Charlton > > > > Talk and beer followed by a slap up meal (and more talk) at the > > Tokyo Diner. > > > > This was just a kick-off meeting to gauge interest in Python and to > > see if it > > would be feasible to hold another meeting. > > > > One topic for discussion was raising the profile of python in both > > industry and > > the media. Any ideas? > > > > Also what format do you want a meeting to take?. Again post your > > comments/criticisms/ideas > > here. > > > > Feedback appreciated > > > > Regards > > > > > > Michael. > > > > > > Michael Charlton > > Nortel Networks > > GSM HLR-PS Product Verification > > Email: Michael.Charlton@nortelnetworks.com > > > Phone: ESN 590 4963 Intl: +44 1628 43 4963 > > > Fax: ESN 590 4381 Intl: +44 1628 43 4381 > > > Address: 3 Roxborough Way, Foundation Park, Maidenhead > > > BERKS, SL6 2UD, United Kingdom > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Python-uk maillist - Python-uk@starship.python.net > > http://starship.python.net/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > > _______________________________________________ > Python-uk maillist - Python-uk@starship.python.net > http://starship.python.net/mailman/listinfo/python-uk -- James Cooley [+44 (0)171-6896924] JCP Computer Services, 16 St Johns Lane, London, EC1M 4BS, UK. PGP Key ID : 0x28CA7769 fingerprint: A39D 1357 89EF 3707 2D62 050B 6AA1 4D03 28CA 7769 From philh@vision25.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 6 18:43:46 1999 From: philh@vision25.demon.co.uk (phil hunt) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:43:46 +0100 (GMT) Subject: [Python-uk] Almost the first UK Python meeting In-Reply-To: <000c01bf0f0d$26412be0$3acbd9c2@peridot.optichrome.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Oct 1999, Adrian Eyre wrote: > > The second meeting of the UK Python User's Group > > (that's a working title) will take place as follows: > > Did anyone make it to this? > I was going to, but i was ill on the day. Any chance of another one soon? -- ***** Phil Hunt ***** philh@vision25.demon.co.uk ***** ``They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance'' -- last words of General John Sedgwick, 8 May 1864 From andy@robanal.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 6 19:31:35 1999 From: andy@robanal.demon.co.uk (Andy Robinson) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 18:31:35 GMT Subject: [Python-uk] Promoting Python in the UK Message-ID: <38008ef6.3064726@post.demon.co.uk> Last night I spent a few hours with Josette Garcia of O'Reilly's UK office discussing promotions. She has now joined the group - welcome aboard! The conclusion we reached was that we just need to plug away and grow organically before we can do any joint promotions, but she gave me a lot of help and good ideas. I'd drafted this before reading Gary's excellent post, and we overlap a lot, but I'll send it out now rather than rewriting it. Here's my short term plan (to end January?): Magazines: ------------- Plan A is to place some Python stories. I am sounding out magazines to see if any are interested in Python stories; if any bite, I'll post the group and we can see who wants to be famous. Ideally we need a press officer - any takers? Initially this would mean chasing up the odd mag and asking if they are interested. I am pretty sure we can get interviews with Python megastars if that is what they want. Target other communities: ----------------------------- Python is great for adding a macro language to other applications. I have lots of material on doing this with VB; others among you know C/C++ and Java. So we could contact their user groups, and offer to go and give talks/demos on embedding Python. Is there anyone who feels that, given a little time, they could give a talk on JPython to Java people, or on extending/embedding to a C++ audience? Who is in what user groups/organisations? Organisation --------------- We have a secretary. We also need a Press Officer - any takers? It involves managing an email list and handling responses. Could be the same person, but I don't want to lean on Michael too much. I also suggest a ground rule that anyone can quit a 'committee job' any time if work gets in the way, with no grumbling allowed. Database/SysAdmin ------------------------ I'm a PSA member and will soon have a starship site with a Zope account. AFAIK it is easy to set up databases both for the user group and the world and delegate management. =20 We could have=20 1. a members' directory with full details 2. a 'sightings' database for companies/projects rumoured to be or known to be using Python. =20 3. a calendar, with upcoming shows/talks to target, events and a list of past press releases 4. a links page. I suggest that we keep the directory and sightings to members (which are currently defined as subscribers!), as it might have value to recruiting agents etc. which in turn could generate pocket money for the group; and publicising the fact that Bank X uses Python, when one guy sneaked it into a project and then left, might not endear us to them. If this stuff needs an editor, it might not go far; but if we can all contribute any time, we could build up a useful database of where Python is being used. So who knows, or wants to learn, Zope? Next Events -------------- At tne next London one, we want to aim for a few short talks and a venue. How about early December? I will try to get a room with a projector, free of charge, near Liverpool Street so Cambridge people can come down. Everyone could be expected to talk for 2-3 minutes about who they are and what they are doing, and anyone who wants to can demo stuff. =20 We only had 2 and 4 so far. Who would actually turn up next time, given enough notice? I can call in some favours to get the room, but will feel like a total lemon unless we get ten people and some talks together. Suscriptions and Revenue ------------------------------- My feeling on this is wait a few months, and only do it if we cannot generate revenue another way. If, six months from now, we had no fees and a membership of 200 (but kept the list to ourselves), we could charge recruiters a small flat fee or a big contingency fee to mailshot the group; they can get thousands for placing someone in a City job, and so far we have a 100% record in proposing acceptable candidates to City firms - even though Laurie turned them to complete his education :-) That's all I can think of, Andy From andy@robanal.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 6 19:37:00 1999 From: andy@robanal.demon.co.uk (Andy Robinson) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 18:37:00 GMT Subject: [Python-uk] Almost the first UK Python meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <380195a0.4770669@post.demon.co.uk> On Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:43:46 +0100 (GMT), you wrote: >On Tue, 5 Oct 1999, Adrian Eyre wrote: >> > The second meeting of the UK Python User's Group >> > (that's a working title) will take place as follows: >>=20 >> Did anyone make it to this? >>=20 > >I was going to, but i was ill on the day. > >Any chance of another one soon? I'd be on for a small one for the South-West London Organisation of Programmers in Python (SLOPPY) in a month or so - a bunch of us seem to be in Putney/Richmond/Hammersmith/Surrey. I mooted the idea of Bier Rex (Belgian beers) and Talad Thai (dirt cheap but excellent Thai kitchen). But this would be another get-to-know-each-other-and yak-about-Python session rather than anything formal. Any takers? Any takers From mcharlto@nortelnetworks.com Thu Oct 7 12:50:08 1999 From: mcharlto@nortelnetworks.com (Michael Charlton) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:50:08 +0100 Subject: [Python-uk] Promoting Python in the U.K. Message-ID: Re:: Garys, & Andys posting Magazines: If you want to split the workload for chasing up magazine articles then I'm prepared to do some work in this area. I provided some duff gen at the meeting last Monday, PCPlus are running an alternative programming language series featuring Smalltalk, Lisp and Eiffel; no mention of Python. Promoting Python at work At least two people have heard of python here (out of a department of 70) and one person has used it in place of tcl to perform a task. I think James makes a valid point concerning the use of languages in organizations: >>It is difficult to motivate people to >>try a new language as most people are illiterate in more than one >>(programming) language already and are still trying to figure out C/C++ >>for that next job. I'm currently writing an application in python, its a graphical interface to a proprietary test tool, and would be quite prepared to give a presentation on this subject at a meeting. Michael. Michael Charlton Nortel Networks GSM HLR-PS Product Verification Email: Michael.Charlton@nortelnetworks.com > Phone: ESN 590 4963 Intl: +44 1628 43 4963 > Fax: ESN 590 4381 Intl: +44 1628 43 4381 > Address: 3 Roxborough Way, Foundation Park, Maidenhead > BERKS, SL6 2UD, United Kingdom > From mcharlto@nortelnetworks.com Thu Oct 7 12:56:56 1999 From: mcharlto@nortelnetworks.com (Michael Charlton) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:56:56 +0100 Subject: [Python-uk] Almost the first UK Python meeting Message-ID: >> andy said - >>I'd be on for a small one for the South-West London Organisation of >>Programmers in Python (SLOPPY) in a month or so - a bunch of us seem >>to be in Putney/Richmond/Hammersmith/Surrey. I mooted the idea of >>Bier Rex (Belgian beers) and Talad Thai (dirt cheap but excellent Thai >>kitchen). But this would be another get-to-know-each-other-and >>yak-about-Python session rather than anything formal. >>Any takers? Providing there's a couple of days notice, then count me in. Michael. Michael Charlton Nortel Networks GSM HLR-PS Product Verification Email: Michael.Charlton@nortelnetworks.com > Phone: ESN 590 4963 Intl: +44 1628 43 4963 > Fax: ESN 590 4381 Intl: +44 1628 43 4381 > Address: 3 Roxborough Way, Foundation Park, Maidenhead > BERKS, SL6 2UD, United Kingdom > > > > From josette@oreilly.co.uk Thu Oct 7 16:41:20 1999 From: josette@oreilly.co.uk (Josette Garcia) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 16:41:20 +0100 Subject: [Python-uk] Promoting Python in the UK Message-ID: <2.2.32.19991007154120.006cdbb4@mailhost.oreilly.secure.net.uk> Hello The possibly best contact for the C++ User Group is Francis Glassborow (ex chaiman) - francis@robinson.demon.co.uk Andy, I have talked to Francis this afternoon and like your idea that Python could complement C++ and not compete with it (please guys don't laugh I am not technical)... As said he liked the idea and would like to invite to talk at their Spring meeting (24/25 March). This meeting is known worldwide and had speakers such as Stroustrup, Coplien etc. The talk would be for 90 mns. Please please let him know within the next few days if you are interested since he is going to the States at the end of next to talk to possible speakers there. All the best Josette At 06:31 PM 10/6/99 GMT, Andy Robinson wrote: >Last night I spent a few hours with Josette Garcia of O'Reilly's UK >office discussing promotions. She has now joined the group - welcome >aboard! The conclusion we reached was that we just need to plug away >and grow organically before we can do any joint promotions, but she >gave me a lot of help and good ideas. > >I'd drafted this before reading Gary's excellent post, and we overlap >a lot, but I'll send it out now rather than rewriting it. > >Here's my short term plan (to end January?): > >Magazines: >------------- >Plan A is to place some Python stories. I am sounding out magazines >to see if any are interested in Python stories; if any bite, I'll post >the group and we can see who wants to be famous. > >Ideally we need a press officer - any takers? Initially this would >mean chasing up the odd mag and asking if they are interested. I am >pretty sure we can get interviews with Python megastars if that is >what they want. > >Target other communities: >----------------------------- >Python is great for adding a macro language to other applications. I >have lots of material on doing this with VB; others among you know >C/C++ and Java. So we could contact their user groups, and offer to >go and give talks/demos on embedding Python. Is there anyone who >feels that, given a little time, they could give a talk on JPython to >Java people, or on extending/embedding to a C++ audience? > >Who is in what user groups/organisations? > >Organisation >--------------- >We have a secretary. We also need a Press Officer - any takers? It >involves managing an email list and handling responses. Could be the >same person, but I don't want to lean on Michael too much. > >I also suggest a ground rule that anyone can quit a 'committee job' >any time if work gets in the way, with no grumbling allowed. > >Database/SysAdmin >------------------------ >I'm a PSA member and will soon have a starship site with a Zope >account. AFAIK it is easy to set up databases both for the user group >and the world and delegate management. > >We could have >1. a members' directory with full details >2. a 'sightings' database for companies/projects rumoured to be or >known to be using Python. >3. a calendar, with upcoming shows/talks to target, events and a list >of past press releases >4. a links page. > >I suggest that we keep the directory and sightings to members (which >are currently defined as subscribers!), as it might have value to >recruiting agents etc. which in turn could generate pocket money for >the group; and publicising the fact that Bank X uses Python, when one >guy sneaked it into a project and then left, might not endear us to >them. > >If this stuff needs an editor, it might not go far; but if we can all >contribute any time, we could build up a useful database of where >Python is being used. > >So who knows, or wants to learn, Zope? > >Next Events >-------------- >At tne next London one, we want to aim for a few short talks and a >venue. How about early December? I will try to get a room with a >projector, free of charge, near Liverpool Street so Cambridge people >can come down. Everyone could be expected to talk for 2-3 minutes >about who they are and what they are doing, and anyone who wants to >can demo stuff. > >We only had 2 and 4 so far. Who would actually turn up next time, >given enough notice? I can call in some favours to get the room, but >will feel like a total lemon unless we get ten people and some talks >together. > > >Suscriptions and Revenue >------------------------------- >My feeling on this is wait a few months, and only do it if we cannot >generate revenue another way. If, six months from now, we had no >fees and a membership of 200 (but kept the list to ourselves), we >could charge recruiters a small flat fee or a big contingency fee to >mailshot the group; they can get thousands for placing someone in a >City job, and so far we have a 100% record in proposing acceptable >candidates to City firms - even though Laurie turned them to complete >his education :-) > >That's all I can think of, > > >Andy > > > >_______________________________________________ >Python-uk maillist - Python-uk@starship.python.net >http://starship.python.net/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > > From matthew.dunn@cis.co.uk Thu Oct 7 18:29:17 1999 From: matthew.dunn@cis.co.uk (Matthew Dunn) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:29:17 +0100 Subject: [Python-uk] Adoption of Python Message-ID: <00256803.006019EA.00@cohub1.cis.co.uk> I work in a group called DSSG (Distributed Systems Support Group) in CIS (CoOperative Insurance) in Manchester. We have recently rolled out a large proect with heavy use of Python, wxPython etc. Our sales force have been issued with replacement laptops (about 2500 so far) running win98. My colleagues and I have written an infrastructure for these users so they can down/upload data, receive software updates, send/receive email etc. For this, we used Python. We love it. We are but a few, but our numbers are growing. As well as this infrastructure, we have written a suite of intranet-served applications in Python - this is where python gets extremely useful - running on IIS4.0. We have produced a bunch of modules, one containing functions for all HTML tags, one for implementing style sheets etc. At some point we'll package them up and offer them for download by others. Anyway, that's my t'penneth worth. Just wanted to let you know that some people in the UK are taking Python seriously as a development platform for reasonably large proects. Regards, Matt Dunn, DSSG, CIS Ltd. ************************************************************************* This e-mail may contain confidential information or be privileged. It is intended to be read and used only by the named recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please notify us immediately so that we can make arrangements for its return: you should not disclose the contents of this e-mail to any other person, or take any copies. Unless stated otherwise by an authorised individual, nothing contained in this e-mail is intended to create binding legal obligations between us and opinions expressed are those of the individual author. 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CIS & the CIS logo (R) Co-operative Insurance Society Limited ******************************************************************************** From philh@vision25.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 7 22:05:19 1999 From: philh@vision25.demon.co.uk (phil hunt) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:05:19 +0100 (GMT) Subject: [Python-uk] Promoting Python in the UK In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19991007154120.006cdbb4@mailhost.oreilly.secure.net.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Oct 1999, Josette Garcia wrote: > Hello > > The possibly best contact for the C++ User Group is Francis Glassborow (ex > chaiman) - francis@robinson.demon.co.uk > > Andy, I have talked to Francis this afternoon and like your idea that Python > could complement C++ and not compete with it (please guys don't laugh I am > not technical)... As said he liked the idea and would like to invite to talk > at their Spring meeting (24/25 March). This meeting is known worldwide and > had speakers such as Stroustrup, Coplien etc. The talk would be for 90 mns. Forgive my ignorance, but who's Coplien? -- ***** Phil Hunt ***** philh@vision25.demon.co.uk ***** ``They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance'' -- last words of General John Sedgwick, 8 May 1864 From philh@vision25.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 7 21:33:26 1999 From: philh@vision25.demon.co.uk (phil hunt) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:33:26 +0100 (GMT) Subject: [Python-uk] Second U.K. meeting In-Reply-To: <37FAFE42.C6687D01@uk.sun.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Oct 1999, Gary Pennington wrote: > I'm promoting Python inside Sun as a rapid prototyping development tool > which is exceptionally well integrated with Java(through JPython). I'm > making a few converts but progress is very slow, lots of Java and Perl > language bigots and very few people with a sufficiently open mind to > consider alternatives. > > Now that's inside Sun ( a relatively open-minded sort of place)!! I > wonder how people are getting on elsewhere? I suggested Python to my boss, but he wants to stick with Java as it is a much better-known language. -- ***** Phil Hunt ***** philh@vision25.demon.co.uk ***** ``They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance'' -- last words of General John Sedgwick, 8 May 1864 From philh@vision25.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 7 21:59:19 1999 From: philh@vision25.demon.co.uk (phil hunt) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:59:19 +0100 (GMT) Subject: [Python-uk] Almost the first UK Python meeting In-Reply-To: <380195a0.4770669@post.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Oct 1999, Andy Robinson wrote: > On Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:43:46 +0100 (GMT), you wrote: > > >On Tue, 5 Oct 1999, Adrian Eyre wrote: > >> > The second meeting of the UK Python User's Group > >> > (that's a working title) will take place as follows: > >> > >> Did anyone make it to this? > >> > > > >I was going to, but i was ill on the day. > > > >Any chance of another one soon? > > I'd be on for a small one for the South-West London Organisation of > Programmers in Python (SLOPPY) in a month or so - a bunch of us seem > to be in Putney/Richmond/Hammersmith/Surrey. I live it Putney too, so this would be convenient for me. -- ***** Phil Hunt ***** philh@vision25.demon.co.uk ***** ``They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance'' -- last words of General John Sedgwick, 8 May 1864 From philh@vision25.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 7 21:57:56 1999 From: philh@vision25.demon.co.uk (phil hunt) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:57:56 +0100 (GMT) Subject: [Python-uk] Promoting Python in the UK In-Reply-To: <38008ef6.3064726@post.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Oct 1999, Andy Robinson wrote: > Magazines: > ------------- > Plan A is to place some Python stories. I am sounding out magazines > to see if any are interested in Python stories; if any bite, I'll post > the group and we can see who wants to be famous. > > Ideally we need a press officer - any takers? If no-one else wants to do this, I'd like to do it. > Organisation > --------------- > We have a secretary. We also need a Press Officer - any takers? It > involves managing an email list I'm not quite sure what you mean here; could you elucidate? > and handling responses. Could be the > same person, but I don't want to lean on Michael too much. > We could have > 1. a members' directory with full details > 2. a 'sightings' database for companies/projects rumoured to be or > known to be using Python. > 3. a calendar, with upcoming shows/talks to target, events and a list > of past press releases > 4. a links page. This all sounds good. > If this stuff needs an editor, it might not go far; but if we can all > contribute any time, we could build up a useful database of where > Python is being used. > > So who knows, or wants to learn, Zope? If someone would like to give a talk or short demo on this at the next meeting, I would be very interested. > Next Events > -------------- > At tne next London one, we want to aim for a few short talks and a > venue. How about early December? I will try to get a room with a > projector, free of charge, near Liverpool Street so Cambridge people > can come down. Everyone could be expected to talk for 2-3 minutes > about who they are and what they are doing, and anyone who wants to > can demo stuff. I am currently developing a web site that uses Python (www.comuno.com), and also developing an open-source Python GUI builder (Parrot). I'd be happy to give a talk about either of these. > We only had 2 and 4 so far. Who would actually turn up next time, > given enough notice? I will. -- ***** Phil Hunt ***** philh@vision25.demon.co.uk ***** ``They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance'' -- last words of General John Sedgwick, 8 May 1864 From andy@robanal.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 7 22:24:51 1999 From: andy@robanal.demon.co.uk (Andy Robinson) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 21:24:51 GMT Subject: [Python-uk] Almost the first UK Python meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <37fe0f2a.9845266@post.demon.co.uk> >> >I was going to, but i was ill on the day. >> > >> >Any chance of another one soon? >>=20 >> I'd be on for a small one for the South-West London Organisation of >> Programmers in Python (SLOPPY) in a month or so - a bunch of us seem >> to be in Putney/Richmond/Hammersmith/Surrey.=20 > >I live it Putney too, so this would be convenient for me. This is drastic, but are you or anyone else on for a jar or two in Putney tomorrow (Friday) night? It's been a hard week, the wife and kids are away, and I'm thirsty..we could do some press planning. Regards, Andy From a.eyre@optichrome.com Fri Oct 8 09:23:49 1999 From: a.eyre@optichrome.com (Adrian Eyre) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:23:49 +0100 Subject: [Python-uk] Second U.K. meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000301bf1166$72732b70$3acbd9c2@peridot.optichrome.com> > I suggested Python to my boss, but he wants to stick with Java as it is a > much better-known language. What about Java with JPython scripting? -------------------------------------------- Adrian Eyre Optichrome Computer Solutions Ltd Maybury Road, Woking, Surrey, GU21 5HX, UK Tel: +44 1483 740 233 Fax: +44 1483 760 644 http://www.optichrome.com -------------------------------------------- From Edward Welbourne Fri Oct 8 10:49:57 1999 From: Edward Welbourne (Edward Welbourne) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 10:49:57 +0100 Subject: [Python-uk] Second U.K. meeting In-Reply-To: <000301bf1166$72732b70$3acbd9c2@peridot.optichrome.com> References: <000301bf1166$72732b70$3acbd9c2@peridot.optichrome.com> Message-ID: PH> I suggested Python to my boss, but he wants to stick with Java as it is a PH> much better-known language. AE> What about Java with JPython scripting? Crucial selling-point: the rest of a system implemented in Java "doesn't know that" the bit written in JPython isn't written in Java: indeed, the python classes constructed by JPython appear, to Java, to be Java classes (I'm told). And, being python, JPython is much easier to write than Java. Eddy. From andy@robanal.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 8 12:35:09 1999 From: andy@robanal.demon.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Andy=20Robinson?=) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 04:35:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Python-uk] Embedding as a selling strategy Message-ID: <19991008113509.242.rocketmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> A strategy is clearly emerging. A key Python selling point is its ability to script other languages. It can thus - produce test harnesses for Language X - help prototype object models in Language X - add macro languages or scripting to Language X ...where X includes at least C++, Visual Basic and Java. Just don't tell them they will be giving up Language X six months later - let them find that out! We have a vacancy to speak to the UK C++ user group for 90 minutes in March, but I lack the C++ skills. Who fancies either doing this, or going halves on it? And user groups exist for the others too..easy to hit them. Once we get some practice, this could be a valuable seminar series and I can see it getting some demand. Regards, Andy ===== Andy Robinson Robinson Analytics Ltd. ------------------ My opinions are the official policy of Robinson Analytics Ltd. They just vary from day to day. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From philh@vision25.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 8 19:28:45 1999 From: philh@vision25.demon.co.uk (phil hunt) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 19:28:45 +0100 (GMT) Subject: [Python-uk] Almost the first UK Python meeting In-Reply-To: <37fe0f2a.9845266@post.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Oct 1999, Andy Robinson wrote: > >> >I was going to, but i was ill on the day. > >> > > >> >Any chance of another one soon? > >> > >> I'd be on for a small one for the South-West London Organisation of > >> Programmers in Python (SLOPPY) in a month or so - a bunch of us seem > >> to be in Putney/Richmond/Hammersmith/Surrey. > > > >I live it Putney too, so this would be convenient for me. > > This is drastic, but are you or anyone else on for a jar or two in > Putney tomorrow (Friday) night? It's been a hard week, the wife and > kids are away, and I'm thirsty..we could do some press planning. It's friday 7:20pm as i read this... yes, I'm up for it, but it might be easier to make it tomorrow, or sometime (bit short notice!) > Regards, > > Andy > > _______________________________________________ > Python-uk maillist - Python-uk@starship.python.net > http://starship.python.net/mailman/listinfo/python-uk > -- ***** Phil Hunt ***** philh@vision25.demon.co.uk ***** ``They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance'' -- last words of General John Sedgwick, 8 May 1864 From tegwyn@worldnet.att.net Wed Oct 13 02:20:12 1999 From: tegwyn@worldnet.att.net (Tegwyn Perkins) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 18:20:12 -0700 Subject: [Python-uk] Almost the first UK Python meeting References: <380195a0.4770669@post.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <3803DE4C.B4B460D3@worldnet.att.net> All: I'm going to be in Putney/Wales for a week starting on the 14th October. Can anyone make Tuesday 19th October for biers at Rex and then the Talad Thai? Tegwyn Andy Robinson wrote: > > On Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:43:46 +0100 (GMT), you wrote: > > >On Tue, 5 Oct 1999, Adrian Eyre wrote: > >> > The second meeting of the UK Python User's Group > >> > (that's a working title) will take place as follows: > >> > >> Did anyone make it to this? > >> > > > >I was going to, but i was ill on the day. > > > >Any chance of another one soon? > > I'd be on for a small one for the South-West London Organisation of > Programmers in Python (SLOPPY) in a month or so - a bunch of us seem > to be in Putney/Richmond/Hammersmith/Surrey. I mooted the idea of > Bier Rex (Belgian beers) and Talad Thai (dirt cheap but excellent Thai > kitchen). But this would be another get-to-know-each-other-and > yak-about-Python session rather than anything formal. > > Any takers? > > Any takers > > _______________________________________________ > Python-uk maillist - Python-uk@starship.python.net > http://starship.python.net/mailman/listinfo/python-uk From mwh21@cam.ac.uk Wed Oct 13 16:29:12 1999 From: mwh21@cam.ac.uk (Michael Hudson) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:29:12 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Python-uk] Re: First Cambridge Python meeting - it happened In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Oct 1999, Michael Hudson wrote: > On Thu, 30 Sep 1999, Edward Welbourne wrote: > > Collating the information from replies received, it looks like Monday > > and Thursday have the viable evenings for meetings; for the present, > > I'll suggest Thursday and listen for any screams of protest. About a > > fortnight hence seems like a practical time to gather again; the Maypole > > seems to be a good candidate location. So how do folk respond to > > Thursday October 14th, 8pm at the Maypole ? > > Sounds good to me. > > > What're our chances of exceeding two ;^? > > Well, I can bump to three. > > > Eddy. > > Michael - now back in Cambridge This is now tomorrow. Anyone actually going to turn up? I will, if there's anyone else going... Michael From edgington@ccdc.cam.ac.uk Wed Oct 13 16:49:54 1999 From: edgington@ccdc.cam.ac.uk (Paul Edgington) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:49:54 +0100 Subject: [Python-uk] Re: First Cambridge Python meeting - it happened In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000d01bf1592$97ec0860$03716f83@csdxt1.ccdc.cam.ac.uk> >This is now tomorrow. Anyone actually going to turn up? I will, if there's >anyone else going... > >Michael Well I intend to (subject to final official permission from the wife!) Paul From tratt@dcs.kcl.ac.uk Wed Oct 13 10:28:46 1999 From: tratt@dcs.kcl.ac.uk (Laurence Tratt) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:28:46 +0000 Subject: [Python-uk] Promoting Python in the UK References: <38008ef6.3064726@post.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <380450CE.6CEB16BA@dcs.kcl.ac.uk> Andy Robinson wrote: > I am sounding out magazines to see if any are interested in Python > stories; if any bite, I'll post the group I'm just wondering if anything has come of this yet. Personally, I'm very interested in writing an article or two for magazines but I do know that magazines can be intermittently slow and then overbearingly fast, so I guess it might take a while? [Targeting other communities] One thing that we haven't yet done is get an idea of what people on this list are actively involved in, Python wise. This could make a big difference to which communities we can reasonably target as it'll give us an idea of where our collective expertise lies. For example, I currently maintain the RISC OS port of Python (and working on GUI libraries for it), a few other tiny little modules (bzip2, csv etc), and I'm making a start on an experimental javadoc/pythondoc sort of beast; Andy's created a PDF creation module (I think); Phil Hunt's creating the Parrot GUI builder. I'm sure there are many others creating fairly substantial pieces of software as well as the common glue-bits-together stuff which everyone seems to enjoy :) If we've got a record of who does what, it might well help tell us some suitable directions to channel our energies into; and as people change what they're up to (and new people join) we can revise our targets. Laurie -- http://eh.org/~laurie/comp/acorn/ropython/ for RISC OS Python From tony@lsl.co.uk Wed Oct 13 17:05:24 1999 From: tony@lsl.co.uk (Tony J. Ibbs (Tibs)) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 17:05:24 +0100 Subject: [Python-uk] Re: First Cambridge Python meeting - it happened Message-ID: <0f7201bf1594$c2a3c8c0$f0c809c0@lslp7o.lsl.co.uk> >This is now tomorrow. Anyone actually going to turn up? I will, if there's >anyone else going... I will (I've *got* permission from my wife!). By my count that gives us: Eddy (tall, no beard or glasses, big laugh, etc.) me (not tall, beard and glasses, blue "Python", recumbent trike somewhere outside) Paul Edgington (probably) you, that is, Michael Hudson which sounds like enough for a meeting to me... -- Tony J Ibbs (Tibs) http://www.tibsnjoan.demon.co.uk/ Feet first with 5 wheels... My views! Mine! Mine! (Unless Laser-Scan ask nicely to borrow them.) From Edward Welbourne Wed Oct 13 17:12:09 1999 From: Edward Welbourne (Edward Welbourne) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 17:12:09 +0100 Subject: [Python-uk] Re: First Cambridge Python meeting - it happened In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > Thursday October 14th, 8pm at the Maypole ? > Anyone actually going to turn up? Yup ;^) > > What're our chances of exceeding two ;^? > Well, I can bump to three. and there was a fourth voice somewhere in the interval, and we have no idea how many lurkers might turn up ... even if they do lurk at the next table and not announce their presence ;^> See you there tomorrow night, Eddy. From Edward Welbourne Wed Oct 13 17:26:56 1999 From: Edward Welbourne (Edward Welbourne) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 17:26:56 +0100 Subject: [Python-uk] Re: First Cambridge Python meeting - it happened In-Reply-To: <0f7201bf1594$c2a3c8c0$f0c809c0@lslp7o.lsl.co.uk> References: <0f7201bf1594$c2a3c8c0$f0c809c0@lslp7o.lsl.co.uk> Message-ID: > Eddy (tall, no beard or glasses, big laugh, etc.) He lied ! I do wear glasses 8^) The laugh's seldom a useful sign-post - never at the right moment ... As to `no beard', I typically cannot claim to either have a beard or be clean-shaven. Except for rare lapses of the latter. Eddy. From philh@vision25.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 13 22:37:44 1999 From: philh@vision25.demon.co.uk (phil hunt) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 22:37:44 +0100 (GMT) Subject: [Python-uk] Almost the first UK Python meeting In-Reply-To: <3803DE4C.B4B460D3@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: > Andy Robinson wrote: > > I'd be on for a small one for the South-West London Organisation of > > Programmers in Python (SLOPPY) in a month or so - a bunch of us seem > > to be in Putney/Richmond/Hammersmith/Surrey. I mooted the idea of > > Bier Rex (Belgian beers) and Talad Thai (dirt cheap but excellent Thai > > kitchen). But this would be another get-to-know-each-other-and > > yak-about-Python session rather than anything formal. On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, Tegwyn Perkins wrote: > All: > > I'm going to be in Putney/Wales for a week starting on the 14th > October. Can anyone make Tuesday 19th October for biers at Rex and then > the Talad Thai? > > Tegwyn > Tuesday the 19th is fine with me, but Monday the 18th would be even nicer. -- ***** Phil Hunt ***** philh@vision25.demon.co.uk ***** ``They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance'' -- last words of General John Sedgwick, 8 May 1864 From andy@robanal.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 13 23:39:22 1999 From: andy@robanal.demon.co.uk (Andy Robinson) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 22:39:22 GMT Subject: [Python-uk] Promoting Python in the UK In-Reply-To: <380450CE.6CEB16BA@dcs.kcl.ac.uk> References: <38008ef6.3064726@post.demon.co.uk> <380450CE.6CEB16BA@dcs.kcl.ac.uk> Message-ID: <38090717.25690681@post.demon.co.uk> On Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:28:46 +0000, you wrote: >Andy Robinson wrote: > >> I am sounding out magazines to see if any are interested in Python >> stories; if any bite, I'll post the group > >I'm just wondering if anything has come of this yet. Personally, I'm = very >interested in writing an article or two for magazines but I do know that >magazines can be intermittently slow and then overbearingly fast, so I = guess >it might take a while? I chased up PC Pro and PC Plus on the phone, got the right names and emailed them some questions earlier this week about what aspects would interest them. Give it another week. Josette is sounding out another three or four magazines where she has contacts (any news yet?). Phil Hunt and I spoke at length on Friday about mounting a PR campaign and he has volunteered to be a Press Officer and commit 2-3 hours per week for a while (there you are, Phil, you're stitched now!) I was planning to turn over any leads to him to manage, although I could probably have my arm twisted to write stories. This should not stop anyone else approaching a publication where they have contacts, but we need one contact point for the press to keep in their databases. We also discussed the idea of him building up a PR mailing list and doing two initial press releases (after agreeing the text in this forum): (1) "The Python UK User Group exists" (2) Matthew Dunn's case study at CIS I had quite a bit of experience at generating press coverage in a previous business, and the rules are simple. Journalists have deadlines and pages to fill; you just crank out stories that are as close to ready-written for them as you can. Some will get printed, and you'll go on file anyway so they will get back next time they have a few pages to fill. >[Targeting other communities] I'm down to speak to the Visual Basic User Group at Microsoft in Reading from 7:30 on Thursday 15th November, on using Python as a "macro language" for VB applications. Anyone fancy coming along? If-you-hate-Microsoft-then-stay-away. >One thing that we haven't yet done is get an idea of what people on this >list are actively involved in, Python wise. This could make a big = difference >to which communities we can reasonably target as it'll give us an idea = of >where our collective expertise lies. For example, I currently maintain = the >RISC OS port of Python (and working on GUI libraries for it), a few = other >tiny little modules (bzip2, csv etc), and I'm making a start on an >experimental javadoc/pythondoc sort of beast; Andy's created a PDF = creation >module (I think); Phil Hunt's creating the Parrot GUI builder. I'm sure >there are many others creating fairly substantial pieces of software as = well >as the common glue-bits-together stuff which everyone seems to enjoy :) > >If we've got a record of who does what, it might well help tell us some >suitable directions to channel our energies into; and as people change = what >they're up to (and new people join) we can revise our targets. Quick solution: bung up an email questionnaire, and everyone fill it in and post it back - they are all archived on mailman. Longer term: I now have a Starship account and Zope access. I am desperately overworked for the next 2 weeks so do not expect much this month, but plan to arrange it so people can all sign in to the Python-UK pages, maintain them, and build up databases for this kind of thing. In Zope, the manager of a folder can create new users below it; so we can have sections for internal group information and for public consumption, and build databases for members' info as discussed, or have members' pages. If it works, we can probably arrange a snappy URL like http://starship.python.net/python-uk/. Who wants to learn Zope and help build this stuff? Who's already done it? Any better ideas how we can manage databases? Cheers, Andy From tony@lsl.co.uk Thu Oct 14 09:34:13 1999 From: tony@lsl.co.uk (Tony J. Ibbs (Tibs)) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 09:34:13 +0100 Subject: [Python-uk] Re: First Cambridge Python meeting - it happened Message-ID: <0fce01bf161e$e5254c40$f0c809c0@lslp7o.lsl.co.uk> >> Eddy (tall, no beard or glasses, big laugh, etc.) > >He lied ! I do wear glasses 8^) Damn - never can remember if people wear glasses or not (and heck, I'm not that reliable on beards). Now, attitude to bicycles or hats I'm better at (for some strange reason). Sorry Eddy -- Tony J Ibbs (Tibs) http://www.tibsnjoan.demon.co.uk/ Feet first with 5 wheels... My views! Mine! Mine! (Unless Laser-Scan ask nicely to borrow them.) From mcharlto@nortelnetworks.com Thu Oct 14 10:01:49 1999 From: mcharlto@nortelnetworks.com (Michael Charlton) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:01:49 +0100 Subject: [Python-uk] Promoting Python in the UK Message-ID: > [Targeting other communities] > I'm down to speak to the Visual Basic User Group at Microsoft in > Reading from 7:30 on Thursday 15th November, on using Python as a > "macro language" for VB applications. Anyone fancy coming along? > If-you-hate-Microsoft-then-stay-away. > > I'm not far from Reading and would like to come along. I'm more of a > Unix person but, If I can be of help in say preparing presentation slides, > then drop us a line. > Longer term: I now have a Starship account and Zope access. I am > desperately overworked for the next 2 weeks so do not expect much this > month, but plan to arrange it so people can all sign in to the > Python-UK pages, maintain them, and build up databases for this kind > of thing. In Zope, the manager of a folder can create new users below > it; so we can have sections for internal group information and for > public consumption, and build databases for members' info as > discussed, or have members' pages. If it works, we can probably > arrange a snappy URL like http://starship.python.net/python-uk/. Who > wants to learn Zope and help build this stuff? Who's already done it? > Any better ideas how we can manage databases? > > > I feel that I could be making more of a contribution and can spare a > couple of hours a week. Let me look into Zope. Regards Michael. Michael Charlton Nortel Networks GSM HLR-PS Product Verification Email: Michael.Charlton@nortelnetworks.com Phone: ESN 590 4963 Intl: +44 1628 43 4963 Fax: ESN 590 4381 Intl: +44 1628 43 4381 Address: 3 Roxborough Way, Foundation Park, Maidenhead BERKS, SL6 2UD, United Kingdom From philh@vision25.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 15 20:35:31 1999 From: philh@vision25.demon.co.uk (phil hunt) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:35:31 +0100 (GMT) Subject: [Python-uk] Almost the first UK Python meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, phil hunt wrote: > On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, Tegwyn Perkins wrote: > > All: > > > > I'm going to be in Putney/Wales for a week starting on the 14th > > October. Can anyone make Tuesday 19th October for biers at Rex and then > > the Talad Thai? > > > > Tegwyn > > Tuesday the 19th is fine with me, but Monday the 18th would be even > nicer. Has the date of this been decided on? Is it definitely Tuesday the 19th? I think it would also help if you gave us the address of and/or directions to the Rex. -- ***** Phil Hunt ***** philh@vision25.demon.co.uk ***** ``They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance'' -- last words of General John Sedgwick, 8 May 1864 From philh@vision25.demon.co.uk Sat Oct 16 22:04:44 1999 From: philh@vision25.demon.co.uk (phil hunt) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 22:04:44 +0100 (GMT) Subject: [Python-uk] 2nd London UK Python meeting In-Reply-To: <991016123637AG.27111@weba1.iname.net> Message-ID: I got this message from Tegwyn, which I am forwarding: On Sat, 16 Oct 1999 tegwyn.perkins@iname.com wrote: > Phil: > > I'm using the crappy iname to get my e-mail whilst I'm over > here. Please could you forward the following to the > Python-UK list. Thanks. > > Bier Rex is on Putney High Street about fifty metres from the > south bank of the river. It is almost directly across from > Putney Cinema. I'm relying on Andy to show us where the Thai > place is. Nearest tube is Putney Bridge - you have to cross > the bridge to get to the pub and the nearest train station is > Putney which is up by the junction of Putney High Street and Upper > Richmond Rd. A number 14 bus stops almost outside. > > See you there! > > Tegwyn Therefore, the next meeting of the ``Putney Chapter'' (non-Putney people welcome, of course!) of the Python-uk group will be: Tuesday 19th October Bier Rex (for location, see above) I don't know the time -- I'm guessing 7:30. -- ***** Phil Hunt ***** philh@vision25.demon.co.uk ***** ``They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance'' -- last words of General John Sedgwick, 8 May 1864 From andy@robanal.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 17 21:25:38 1999 From: andy@robanal.demon.co.uk (Andy Robinson) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 20:25:38 GMT Subject: [Python-uk] 2nd London UK Python meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <380c2e43.2183479@post.demon.co.uk> On Sat, 16 Oct 1999 22:04:44 +0100 (GMT), you wrote: > >Therefore, the next meeting of the ``Putney Chapter'' (non-Putney people >welcome, of course!) of the Python-uk group will be: > > Tuesday 19th October > Bier Rex (for location, see above) > >I don't know the time -- I'm guessing 7:30. I'm happy to start even earlier and will be there from 7:00. =46or those not in the know, Bier Rex does Belgian beers and has very comfortable sofas - you need them after some of those 11% brews. =20 Talad Thai is on Upper Richmond Road - from Bier Rex you stagger up to the crossroads, turn right towards Richmond, and go about 400m - basically the last bunch of shops on the right before it becomes residential. It is a cheap Thai 'kitchen' with stainless steel tables, help yourself to drinks from the fridgem and rock-bottom prices - and some of the best Thai food I've had in the UK. Tha catch is that it is very popular - we may need to queue for a table for 15 minutes, and should aim to be there by 9:00. If anyone is arriving late, I'll have a mobile - 0976-355742 - you can use to locate us. Now for a small request. My wife Alisa is doing a part-time MBA, and her dissertation is on Open Source software, and whether iot is a sensible strategy for anyone launching a new software business. She needs some feedback from a few computer people on a questionnaire she is designing aimed at corporate developers and IT managers. She's going to come for the food part and might ask a few of you for some opinions. =20 See you all, Andy From duncan@rcp.co.uk Mon Oct 18 17:06:22 1999 From: duncan@rcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:06:22 +0000 Subject: [Python-uk] Promoting Python in the UK In-Reply-To: <38090717.25690681@post.demon.co.uk> References: <380450CE.6CEB16BA@dcs.kcl.ac.uk> Message-ID: <15041531903556@rcp.co.uk> > Longer term: I now have a Starship account and Zope access. I am > desperately overworked for the next 2 weeks so do not expect much this > month, but plan to arrange it so people can all sign in to the Python-UK > pages, maintain them, and build up databases for this kind of thing. In > Zope, the manager of a folder can create new users below it; so we can > have sections for internal group information and for public consumption, > and build databases for members' info as discussed, or have members' > pages. If it works, we can probably arrange a snappy URL like > http://starship.python.net/python-uk/. Who wants to learn Zope and help > build this stuff? Who's already done it? Any better ideas how we can > manage databases? I have a fair amount of Zope experience, so I am quite willing to help out (work permitting) if you want to set up Python-UK space on a web server. For the record: Why I started using Python: blame Tibs. Main use for Python: prototyping things in 10 lines of code so I can then rewrite them in 100 lines VB or 1000 lines C to keep other people happy. Subsidiary use for Python: when someone says "how do I do ..." I can throw them a solution in Python and tell them that the solution is obvious. Main Pythonic claim to fame: I ported Python to the Psion series 5. In fact I actually ported Nethack first and then re-used large chunks of the Nethack port in the Python port. Python Advert: Python for the Psion is downloadable from my Zope powered web pages. [Sorry folks, I haven't yet ported Zope to the Psion, although it would be nice.] Zope stuff: http://dales.rmplc.co.uk/Duncan is all Zope powered. Mostly just plain pages, not too much Zope magic except for the download pages and most of that is hidden from the public. http://www.rcp.co.uk/distributed is also Zope powered. Again its mostly an ordinary website with a fancy download page. It also includes a series of screen grabs of a WAP demonstration written entirely using Zope. The WAP demo itself is on the Zope server at http://www.rcp.co.uk:9080/wap, but you need a WAP browser or mobile phone to run it for yourself. Anyone fancy an Oxford area meeting? -- Duncan Booth duncan@dales.rmplc.co.uk int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3" "\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure? http://dales.rmplc.co.uk/Duncan From matthew.dunn@cis.co.uk Tue Oct 19 10:39:09 1999 From: matthew.dunn@cis.co.uk (Matthew Dunn) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:39:09 +0100 Subject: [Python-uk] Python Case Study at CIS Message-ID: <0025680F.0035807F.00@cohub1.cis.co.uk> It's on the way..... Unfortunately, due to the CIS being one of those monstrously big companies, there are procedures to bo followed here. I have to get my submission approved by management and our solicitors may even have to give it a once over. Should be ready soon though..... Regards, Matt Dunn, DSSG, CIS Ltd. ************************************************************************* This e-mail may contain confidential information or be privileged. It is intended to be read and used only by the named recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s) please notify us immediately so that we can make arrangements for its return: you should not disclose the contents of this e-mail to any other person, or take any copies. Unless stated otherwise by an authorised individual, nothing contained in this e-mail is intended to create binding legal obligations between us and opinions expressed are those of the individual author. The CIS marketing group, which is regulated for Investment Business by the Personal Investment Authority, includes: Co-operative Insurance Society Limited Registered in England number 3615R - for life assurance and pensions CIS Unit Managers Limited Registered in England and Wales number 2369965 (also regulated by IMRO) - for unit trusts and PEPs CIS Policyholder Services Limited Registered in England and Wales number 3390839 - for ISAs and investment products bearing the CIS name Registered offices: Miller Street, Manchester M60 0AL Telephone 0161-832-8686 Internet http://www.cis.co.uk E-mail cis@cis.co.uk CIS Deposit and Instant Access Savings Accounts are held with The Co-operative Bank p.l.c., registered in England and Wales number 990937, P.O. Box 101, 1 Balloon Street, Manchester M60 4EP, and administered by CIS Policyholder Services Limited as agent of the Bank. CIS & the CIS logo (R) Co-operative Insurance Society Limited ******************************************************************************** From andy@robanal.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 21 13:05:51 1999 From: andy@robanal.demon.co.uk (=?iso-8859-1?q?Andy=20Robinson?=) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 05:05:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Python-uk] Promoting Python in the UK Message-ID: <19991021120551.7121.rocketmail@web601.mail.yahoo.com> Duncan Booth wrote: >I have a fair amount of Zope experience, so I am >quite willing to help out (work permitting) if you >want to set up Python-UK space on a >web server. Duncan, how much work is involved in what I was suggesting? Basically, - folder for members only - folder for public - some basic databases everyone can maintain such as 1. members' directory, 2. list of "python sightings" 3. upcoming calendar events 4. draft documents for discussion I also am very conscious not to impose an extra administrative burden on Chris Tismer. Does this stuff require much work by the top-level administrator? If so, would we be better off with a Zope site of our own on Phil's machine - or on yours ? :-) Regards, Andy ===== Andy Robinson Robinson Analytics Ltd. ------------------ My opinions are the official policy of Robinson Analytics Ltd. They just vary from day to day. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com From gjh@bel-epa.com Thu Oct 21 20:37:13 1999 From: gjh@bel-epa.com (Graham Higgins) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 20:37:13 +0100 Subject: [Python-uk] Re: Python-uk digest, Vol 1 #25 - 1 msg Message-ID: >I also am very conscious not to impose an extra >administrative burden on Chris Tismer. Does this >stuff require much work by the top-level >administrator? Not dramatically ('s one of the benefits of using Zope) > >If so, would we be better off with a Zope site of our >own on Phil's machine - or on yours ? :-) I've got one up & running, there's plenty of HD space and it'd be a good fit with the PyApache material I've put together. Cheers, Graham Higgins -------------- Bel EPA Bristol, UK. http://bel-epa.com From duncan@rcp.co.uk Fri Oct 22 10:22:28 1999 From: duncan@rcp.co.uk (Duncan Booth) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:22:28 +0000 Subject: [Python-uk] Promoting Python in the UK In-Reply-To: <19991021120551.7121.rocketmail@web601.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <08202481605120@rcp.co.uk> > Duncan, how much work is involved in what I was > suggesting? Basically, > - folder for members only Probably best to do a structure like www.zope.org with a folder 'users' that in turn contains a folder for each user. That would mean each user could protect their own personal space, but it shouldn't prevent them sharing objects with other users. > - folder for public Top level folder with some views of the things you listed below, possibly using KMNetNews or maybe Squishdot as the basis for news postings. > - some basic databases everyone can maintain such as > 1. members' directory, > 2. list of "python sightings" > 3. upcoming calendar events > 4. draft documents for discussion > > I also am very conscious not to impose an extra > administrative burden on Chris Tismer. Does this > stuff require much work by the top-level > administrator? It shouldn't do as one of the features of Zope is that new users may be defined at any level of the site hierarchy. Until the Zope Portal Toolkit is available I think we would have to roll our own forms for signing up new users (or do it manually). > > If so, would we be better off with a Zope site of our > own on Phil's machine - or on yours ? :-) The features we might need that require the site administrator's cooperation are: * Adding external python methods. * Adding any 3rd party Zope products * Defining any new ZClasses. * Creating external databases. Which I think adds up to saying that no of course you don't NEED administrative access, but it helps. I say we go for a Zope server that can be kicked when necessary. -- Duncan Booth duncan@dales.rmplc.co.uk int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3" "\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure? http://dales.rmplc.co.uk/Duncan From Edward Welbourne Fri Oct 22 10:52:08 1999 From: Edward Welbourne (Edward Welbourne) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:52:08 +0100 Subject: [Python-uk] Second Cambridge Python meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just a quick note, over a week after the event, to say we did, indeed, make a gathering of four for our second meeting; and to announce the date we agreed for our next: 1999, October 28th, a Thursday, at 8pm Maypole All data seem to point to the view that Thursday and Monday evenings are the only practical times for future gatherings. Eddy. From mwh21@cam.ac.uk Fri Oct 22 12:51:27 1999 From: mwh21@cam.ac.uk (Michael Hudson) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:51:27 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Python-uk] Second Cambridge Python meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Oct 1999, Edward Welbourne wrote: > Just a quick note, over a week after the event, to say we did, indeed, > make a gathering of four for our second meeting; and to announce the > date we agreed for our next: > > 1999, October 28th, a Thursday, at 8pm > Maypole Agh, can't make it (sorry). > All data seem to point to the view that Thursday and Monday evenings are > the only practical times for future gatherings. This is probably in general true (but not this one). Soz, Michael