[python-sg] Decide upon the list

[Senthil Kumaran]

Okay, I get these points. I agree with your points 2, 3 and 4. 

You got me wrong when I said uninitiated, I was talking in terms of
community. Please remember that Python Singapore is a fledgling. It
has to grow up as a group.  A good way is to emulate what others have
done. Because it is a Python group, is a good to emulate what other
Python groups are doing. BayPiggies, Bangpypers, Python bugs, Python
announce. Everything is hosted on python.org. My intention was that
once you subscribe to python-sg via the same python hosted mailman,
you will be willing to learn from and subscribe to the other lists
which use the same interface (you could use the same username/password
too).

Are you part of any of bigger python mailing lists? Would you like to
be? If yes, then you are going to encounter mailman again.

The argument I am making for python-sg at python.org is that it is a
recognized one and you can be part of wider group hosted at
python.org. It is bit of a socialistic vs technical merits argument
and for a longer term. 

It is not for a win situation and if the group does not get these
values and get think it is not a good idea to continue it at
python.org, I shall ask the admin to close it down. That is fine.

Let's see if people involve in the discussion. I and you cannot make
the decision and similarly, if there is lack of voice then, fine we
can leave it.

-- 
Senthil

On Wed, Aug 03, 2011 at 09:10:38AM +0800, Martin wrote:
> Obviously I'm still reading this list but I will post new posts to Google
> Groups only.
> We have decided that Facebook will be used like Twitter - to announce stuff and
> to socialize. You are absolutely right, technical discussions on Facebook don't
> make a lot of sense.
> 
> I think we had the mailman vs. Google Groups discussion several times now.
> 
>   • I hate that Mailman sends my password in plain text. I know I can disable
>     this but a) the admin interface looks so ugly that I just don't want to
>     deal with it and b) this tells me that they save my password in plain text
>     which is a security no go (of course I use different password for
>     everything but this is 2011 - heck, they are even sending all our passwords
>     over plain HTTP).
>   • After 5 years of subscribing to Mailman lists I have never found out how to
>     browse old posts in an intuitive and beautiful way. I mean... just look at
>     the so called archives: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-sg/. Using
>     Mailman is fire and forget. 
>   • Is it even possible to participate on Mailman without getting any emails
>     into your inbox (as in: read online only?). I think not. Google Groups has
>     a nice web interface and can even show your posts since last visit.
>   • There is no obvious way to search Mailman posts on Google. I know that it
>     is possible SOMEHOW but I forgot, that says it all. With Google Groups I
>     just search "groupname group searchtearm" and almost always get to the
>     result. If not I can still go to the beautiful Groups page and use the
>     search box, that will always find the result. Everyone developer in the
>     world knows how to do this. Even if there is a similar trick to do this
>     with mailman - a new developer interested in Python will not know about
>     Mailman and thus will not know the trick.
>   • Even if you are able to tell me tricks and workarounds for every argument
>     mentioned above this would still mean that you need a Readme for using
>     Mailman. We want to grow the Python community. An intuitive system would
>     help greatly. Mailman is pushing users away. Everyone on this planet knows
>     how to use Facebook and everyone on this planet knows how to use Google
>     Groups.
>   • The closing of your post underlines my point. The fact that you need to be
>     initiated is an argument against Mailman.
> 
> These are just my personal opinions. I really don't want to fight. Obviously I
> am willing and able to use any system. 
> 
> Having two groups indeed is the worst case and we should somehow solve this
> issue. One group must be closed (I don't really care, which).
> 
> Should we setup a doodle and post the link on Facebook, Mailman and Google
> Groups and get a more representative vote on this?
> 
> Cheers,
> Martin
> 
> 
> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 8:19 AM, Senthil Kumaran <senthil at uthcode.com> wrote:
> 
>     ( I write this after forwarding an email about Python tools for Visual
>     studio to this list).
> 
> 
>     Hello All,
> 
>     Did we decide anything on this list? In the last email I responded
>     back to Martin that just asking 7 people and voting for closure is not
>     a good idea.  However, I am for maintaining a healthy community and
>     would like to know if anyone in the subscribers is unhappy with this
>     list existing?
> 
>     I asked python.org maintainers to create this and I am the owner.
>     I added Martin as moderators as he was pretty active. Martin suggested
>     Greg Goh (name correct?) to be added as Moderator too, I thought is
>     already a low volume so once a becomes high-volume, let's add it.
> 
>     I am strictly against Facebook for any technical discussions. One
>     would spoil oneself, if (s)he uses Facebook groups for technical
>     discussions, it is perfectly good for social discussions/ meetup.
> 
>     I am not sure, why the discussion on having a google group came up and
>     what was decided.  So, if you anyone would care to explain, it would
>     be helpful. We can let the two exist or close the down one.
> 
>     For the un-initiated, I would suggest checking
>     http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo
> 
>     --
>     Senthil
>     _______________________________________________
>     python-sg mailing list
>     python-sg at python.org
>     http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-sg
> 
> 

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