From a.badger at gmail.com  Thu Oct 21 06:27:07 2010
From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 21:27:07 -0700
Subject: [Python-porting] Attempt to organize people who want to help port
Message-ID: <20101021042707.GI3652@unaka.lan>

After a few mailing list posts about porting to python3 when upstreams are
dead, I've started a page to help organize people who want to do porting
work without (previously :-) being associated with upstream.

http://wiki.python.org/moin/PortingToPy3k/PortingHelpers

This is very rough atm as I just brainstormed it in the past hour.  I know
that Barry Warsaw and Dave Malcolm are both interested in this as well.
If we can keep up the momentum here we might get some useful information
and get some more people interested in working on python3 porting.

-Toshio
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From barry at python.org  Thu Oct 21 17:33:19 2010
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 11:33:19 -0400
Subject: [Python-porting] Attempt to organize people who want to help
 port
In-Reply-To: <20101021042707.GI3652@unaka.lan>
References: <20101021042707.GI3652@unaka.lan>
Message-ID: <20101021113319.6894ba11@mission>

On Oct 20, 2010, at 09:27 PM, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:

>After a few mailing list posts about porting to python3 when upstreams are
>dead, I've started a page to help organize people who want to do porting
>work without (previously :-) being associated with upstream.
>
>http://wiki.python.org/moin/PortingToPy3k/PortingHelpers
>
>This is very rough atm as I just brainstormed it in the past hour.  I know
>that Barry Warsaw and Dave Malcolm are both interested in this as well.
>If we can keep up the momentum here we might get some useful information
>and get some more people interested in working on python3 porting.

Thanks for getting this rolling Toshio.  I've sent an email to the
debian-python list to inform them of python-porting and the wiki page.  I'll
be really happy if we can rally the cross-distro troops to this important
effort.

Does anybody have connections to other communities of Linux distro developers
or even other OS developers?  If so, please invite them to this mailing list
and point them at the wiki page.

Cheers,
-Barry

P.S. We should definitely have a talk at Pycon about these efforts.  Who wants
to (co-)give a talk?
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From brian.curtin at gmail.com  Thu Oct 21 17:58:08 2010
From: brian.curtin at gmail.com (Brian Curtin)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:58:08 -0500
Subject: [Python-porting] Attempt to organize people who want to help
	port
In-Reply-To: <20101021113319.6894ba11@mission>
References: <20101021042707.GI3652@unaka.lan> <20101021113319.6894ba11@mission>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=hJuStYx81s9EvfME4x=nxo9XxcMEA99DFqTpj@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 10:33, Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> wrote:

> On Oct 20, 2010, at 09:27 PM, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
>
> >After a few mailing list posts about porting to python3 when upstreams are
> >dead, I've started a page to help organize people who want to do porting
> >work without (previously :-) being associated with upstream.
> >
> >http://wiki.python.org/moin/PortingToPy3k/PortingHelpers
> >
> >This is very rough atm as I just brainstormed it in the past hour.  I know
> >that Barry Warsaw and Dave Malcolm are both interested in this as well.
> >If we can keep up the momentum here we might get some useful information
> >and get some more people interested in working on python3 porting.
>
> Thanks for getting this rolling Toshio.  I've sent an email to the
> debian-python list to inform them of python-porting and the wiki page.
>  I'll
> be really happy if we can rally the cross-distro troops to this important
> effort.
>
> Does anybody have connections to other communities of Linux distro
> developers
> or even other OS developers?  If so, please invite them to this mailing
> list
> and point them at the wiki page.
>
> Cheers,
> -Barry
>
> P.S. We should definitely have a talk at Pycon about these efforts.  Who
> wants
> to (co-)give a talk?


+1 on a PyCon talk.
The PSF Sprints group would love to support more porting sprints (only two
so far), and getting PyCon attendees into porting initiatives would be
great. I'd be up for co-speaking on behalf of the sprints group to let
people know what resources are available and what porting efforts are going
on, along with whatever of my porting experience people would find relevant.
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From brett at python.org  Thu Oct 21 19:03:10 2010
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 10:03:10 -0700
Subject: [Python-porting] Attempt to organize people who want to help
	port
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=hJuStYx81s9EvfME4x=nxo9XxcMEA99DFqTpj@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20101021042707.GI3652@unaka.lan> <20101021113319.6894ba11@mission>
	<AANLkTi=hJuStYx81s9EvfME4x=nxo9XxcMEA99DFqTpj@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=Kw1W0CWKv-uRYtry2+c33feBkGCEWhXJb5sno@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 08:58, Brian Curtin <brian.curtin at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 10:33, Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org> wrote:
>>
>> On Oct 20, 2010, at 09:27 PM, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
>>
>> >After a few mailing list posts about porting to python3 when upstreams
>> > are
>> >dead, I've started a page to help organize people who want to do porting
>> >work without (previously :-) being associated with upstream.
>> >
>> >http://wiki.python.org/moin/PortingToPy3k/PortingHelpers
>> >
>> >This is very rough atm as I just brainstormed it in the past hour. ?I
>> > know
>> >that Barry Warsaw and Dave Malcolm are both interested in this as well.
>> >If we can keep up the momentum here we might get some useful information
>> >and get some more people interested in working on python3 porting.
>>
>> Thanks for getting this rolling Toshio. ?I've sent an email to the
>> debian-python list to inform them of python-porting and the wiki page.
>> ?I'll
>> be really happy if we can rally the cross-distro troops to this important
>> effort.
>>
>> Does anybody have connections to other communities of Linux distro
>> developers
>> or even other OS developers? ?If so, please invite them to this mailing
>> list
>> and point them at the wiki page.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Barry
>>
>> P.S. We should definitely have a talk at Pycon about these efforts. ?Who
>> wants
>> to (co-)give a talk?
>
> +1 on a PyCon talk.
> The PSF Sprints group would love to support more porting sprints (only two
> so far), and getting PyCon attendees into porting initiatives would be
> great. I'd be up for co-speaking on behalf of the sprints group to let
> people know what resources are available and what porting efforts are going
> on, along with whatever of my porting experience people would find relevant.

Part 2 of my PSF grant is to write a Python 2/3 HOWTO (planning on
2to3, source compat, and 3to2 discussions) which should hopefully help
get people more motivated to help port.

From a.badger at gmail.com  Thu Oct 21 20:59:43 2010
From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 11:59:43 -0700
Subject: [Python-porting] Attempt to organize people who want to help
	port
In-Reply-To: <20101021113319.6894ba11@mission>
References: <20101021042707.GI3652@unaka.lan> <20101021113319.6894ba11@mission>
Message-ID: <20101021185943.GO3652@unaka.lan>

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 11:33:19AM -0400, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Oct 20, 2010, at 09:27 PM, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
> 
> >After a few mailing list posts about porting to python3 when upstreams are
> >dead, I've started a page to help organize people who want to do porting
> >work without (previously :-) being associated with upstream.
> >
> >http://wiki.python.org/moin/PortingToPy3k/PortingHelpers
> >
> >This is very rough atm as I just brainstormed it in the past hour.  I know
> >that Barry Warsaw and Dave Malcolm are both interested in this as well.
> >If we can keep up the momentum here we might get some useful information
> >and get some more people interested in working on python3 porting.
> 
> Thanks for getting this rolling Toshio.  I've sent an email to the
> debian-python list to inform them of python-porting and the wiki page.  I'll
> be really happy if we can rally the cross-distro troops to this important
> effort.
> 
> Does anybody have connections to other communities of Linux distro developers
> or even other OS developers?  If so, please invite them to this mailing list
> and point them at the wiki page.
> 
I've sent a message to the fedora python lists and also to
distributions freedesktop.org list (where a few people from many distros are
subscribed).

> 
> P.S. We should definitely have a talk at Pycon about these efforts.  Who wants
> to (co-)give a talk?

I might -- depends on what we can get rolling before then.  Not a lot of
time to get this rolling though.  A lightning talk would be great if we
don't get to the point where we can give a full talk.  If we don't get a lot
setup, I'd still be up for actually coding on infrastructure to make porting
easier/doing porting at the hackfest.

-Toshio
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From a.badger at gmail.com  Thu Oct 21 21:03:27 2010
From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 12:03:27 -0700
Subject: [Python-porting] Third party module porting notes
Message-ID: <20101021190327.GP3652@unaka.lan>

Someone on the Fedora lists mentioned that the PyQt4 module uses a different
API depending on whether it's being run on python-2 or python-3.  I've added
a section to the wiki to capture information like that:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/PortingPythonToPy3k#differences-in-specific-libraries

http://wiki.python.org/moin/PortingPythonToPy3k/PyQt4

If you have any other third party module changes that are relevant to
python3 porting feel free to add a page and link it to that section as well.

-Toshio
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From a.badger at gmail.com  Tue Oct 26 21:32:20 2010
From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 12:32:20 -0700
Subject: [Python-porting] Example of data to collect
Message-ID: <20101026193220.GH14816@unaka.lan>

I've put together a few entries for a table of useful information on python3
module status:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/PortingToPy3k/Modules

It involves some labor to create and manage that sort of table so there may
be a better way.  Not sure whether the wiki is the best place to track it.

What do people think?  There's plenty more information just in Fedora, let
alone the other distros about the python3 module packages that we've created
but it would be nice to figure out what data we're targetting and how we
want to organize it before doing the data entry work.

-Toshio
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From piotr at debian.org  Tue Oct 26 22:37:35 2010
From: piotr at debian.org (Piotr =?utf-8?Q?O=C5=BCarowski?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 22:37:35 +0200
Subject: [Python-porting] Example of data to collect
In-Reply-To: <20101026193220.GH14816@unaka.lan>
References: <20101026193220.GH14816@unaka.lan>
Message-ID: <20101026203735.GL22683@piotro.eu>

[Toshio Kuratomi, 2010-10-26]
> I've put together a few entries for a table of useful information on python3
> module status:
> 
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/PortingToPy3k/Modules
> 
> It involves some labor to create and manage that sort of table so there may
> be a better way.  Not sure whether the wiki is the best place to track it.
> 
> What do people think?

there's similar table on Fedora's wiki? and on Debian's?, but having a
central place on python.org is a good idea (just added my tiny Mako
patch there). IMO, this page is not the best place for a discussion/questions/etc.
though. I, for example, would want to know why do you invoke `2to3 --write
--nobackups . ` in Beaker - I didn't need that in my package, isn't
use_2to3=True in setup.py enough? Should questions like this be sent to
this mailing list or added to the wiki?

[?] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Python3F13
[?] http://wiki.debian.org/Python/SqueezePy3k
-- 
Piotr O?arowski                         Debian GNU/Linux Developer
www.ozarowski.pl          www.griffith.cc           www.debian.org
GPG Fingerprint: 1D2F A898 58DA AF62 1786 2DF7 AEF6 F1A2 A745 7645

From piotr at debian.org  Tue Oct 26 23:24:50 2010
From: piotr at debian.org (Piotr =?utf-8?Q?O=C5=BCarowski?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 23:24:50 +0200
Subject: [Python-porting] Example of data to collect
In-Reply-To: <20101026203735.GL22683@piotro.eu>
References: <20101026193220.GH14816@unaka.lan>
	<20101026203735.GL22683@piotro.eu>
Message-ID: <20101026212450.GA5798@piotro.eu>

[Piotr O?arowski, 2010-10-26]
> [?] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Python3F13

should be https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Python3
-- 
Piotr O?arowski                         Debian GNU/Linux Developer
www.ozarowski.pl          www.griffith.cc           www.debian.org
GPG Fingerprint: 1D2F A898 58DA AF62 1786 2DF7 AEF6 F1A2 A745 7645

From a.badger at gmail.com  Wed Oct 27 17:18:38 2010
From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 08:18:38 -0700
Subject: [Python-porting] Example of data to collect
In-Reply-To: <20101026203735.GL22683@piotro.eu>
References: <20101026193220.GH14816@unaka.lan>
	<20101026203735.GL22683@piotro.eu>
Message-ID: <20101027151837.GI14816@unaka.lan>

On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 10:37:35PM +0200, Piotr O?arowski wrote:
> [Toshio Kuratomi, 2010-10-26]
> > I've put together a few entries for a table of useful information on python3
> > module status:
> > 
> > http://wiki.python.org/moin/PortingToPy3k/Modules
> > 
> > It involves some labor to create and manage that sort of table so there may
> > be a better way.  Not sure whether the wiki is the best place to track it.
> > 
> > What do people think?
> 
> there's similar table on Fedora's wiki? and on Debian's?, but having a
> central place on python.org is a good idea (just added my tiny Mako
> patch there).
>
Okay, I'll continue adding the information from Fedora's wiki of known
status.  Anyone care to add information from the Debian page?  I'll also see
about getting Fedora people to add their information to the python.org page
instead and deprecate the Fedora-specific page so that we don't get out of
sync.

> IMO, this page is not the best place for a discussion/questions/etc.
> though. I, for example, would want to know why do you invoke `2to3 --write
> --nobackups . ` in Beaker - I didn't need that in my package, isn't
> use_2to3=True in setup.py enough? Should questions like this be sent to
> this mailing list or added to the wiki?
> 
I vote mailing list for lack of a better place.  Ideally, someone would
bring up the issue:

   "Hey, why is running 2to3 on beaker necessary?  I don't run it in the
   Debian package and it seems to work fine.  This is with Beaker version
   1.5.3."

Then other people with beaker packages/builds would try it out and say:

  "You're right.  I just tried it and it works here too.  I'll correct it in
  our packages as well."

The data on the wiki would be updated for future users and all of the beaker
packagers would be notified and update their packages.

Better than either the mailing list or wiki page would probably be an issue
tracker where we could assign the people building/packaging the modules for
each Linux distribution (and other interested parties) to the issues.  That
way we'd be sure that the right people were getting contacted about each
package.

Using the mailing list as the medium, it'll probably fall to certain contact
people to make sure that the right people are being told of these issues
which is less efficient and leads to single points of failure.  Doable in
the short term but we'd be better off with something else in the long term.

-Toshio
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From johnp at redhat.com  Thu Oct 28 18:34:21 2010
From: johnp at redhat.com (John Palmieri)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 12:34:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Python-porting] Attempt to organize people who want to help
	port
In-Reply-To: <2116735523.1746691288283548001.JavaMail.root@zmail04.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <1597991620.1746971288283661678.JavaMail.root@zmail04.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com>

Sorry about branching off the thread but I just joined the list and can't reply to the original message.  In any case I have been leading the efforts on some pretty big projects including dbus-python and pygobject (the introspection portion is targeting 3.x as a replacement for PyGtk and other such GNOME related Python libraries). I have also been submitting patches where needed in other modules.  My main focus in in the GNOME desktop world and I am happy to assist where needed in this context as well as lend a hand reviewing patches and the like for modules outside of my main domain.

--
John (J5) Palmieri
Software Engineer
Red Hat, Inc.

From zubin.mithra at gmail.com  Sun Oct 31 20:07:40 2010
From: zubin.mithra at gmail.com (Zubin Mithra)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 00:37:40 +0530
Subject: [Python-porting] Attempt to organize people who want to help
	port
In-Reply-To: <20101021042707.GI3652@unaka.lan>
References: <20101021042707.GI3652@unaka.lan>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=yc2D56+nhEAru8QS_qoMLAx4uOxmJqx16tDLg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Toshio,


> After a few mailing list posts about porting to python3 when upstreams are
> dead, I've started a page to help organize people who want to do porting
> work without (previously :-) being associated with upstream.
>

Thanks for taking the initiative on this one!

I would like to contribute to this effort. I am currently working on porting
configobj to Python3k and expect to get it done within the coming month.

I feel that if we can generate a list of packages rated by
importance(`importance` here being the number of packages which require this
package as a dependency) we should be able to focus our energies better on
porting them over first.

I feel that most developers are reluctant to work on porting their
dependencies too, aside from their own package(which is of course,
understandable); hence this approach might be of help in that case.

zm


>
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/PortingToPy3k/PortingHelpers
>
> This is very rough atm as I just brainstormed it in the past hour.  I know
> that Barry Warsaw and Dave Malcolm are both interested in this as well.
> If we can keep up the momentum here we might get some useful information
> and get some more people interested in working on python3 porting.
>
> -Toshio
>
> _______________________________________________
> Python-porting mailing list
> Python-porting at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-porting
>
>
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