Microsoft's C# (Sharp) & .NET -- A Heads Up

[Alex Martelli]

Mark Hammond <MarkH at ActiveState.com> wrote in message
news:2f985.6708$Tb7.40527 at news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> "Alex Martelli" <alex at magenta.com> wrote in message
> news:8jqbru017gf at news2.newsguy.com...
>
> > I believe the only relevant issue for the Python community
> > is: C#, like every other Microsoft offering in recent times,
> > will be *STRONGLY* oriented to COM.  Every C# object will be
> > a COM object (just like every Java object was one when run
> > under Microsoft's Java VM), etc, etc.
>
> Its a little more complicated than that!

Well, there's the "common runtime" library that's apparently
going to be shared between all languages, as opposed to C++
having its own MSVCRT.DLL, VB having its own, etc (we did have
that on IBM mainframes in the '70s, of course, but that's
another issue:-); I guess Python may be able to take advantage
of that.  But I didn't see it as specifically a "C#" issue.
What else...?


> > So, C#'s possible (unlikely...) emergence as a major language
> > is just the N-plus-1-th motivation for Windows versions of
> > Python to support COM *very, VERY* well.
>
> And that!

You mean that it will be COM+-as-originally-promised-lo-that-
many-years-ago (with better metadata support, interceptors, etc),
as opposed to the "COM+" which actually emerged without any
of the really interesting promised features?  But even then,
again, I don't quite see it as a "C#" issue.  What am I missing?


> > Yeah, I know, I should put my coding efforts where my mouth
> > is -- and, having expended substantial efforts doing just
> > this sort of thing for a proprietary scripting language
>
> Please do.  Typelib work may be kicking off again (if I ever clear my
> inbox that is - sorry John - I havent forgotten you :-)  A framework for
> calling arbitary vtable interfaces is also in place.  So what you will
> find is that it needs less "framework" code, and more a motivated and
> skilled person to pull a few of these "late" pieces together.  My
> motivation WRT win32com now is more towards keeping the status-quo - and
> helping _others_ change it :-)

Bill Tutt also wrote to me to the same effect, also suggesting I
join the win32 com-developers mailing list.  Turns out I've been
on it for months, but the traffic is so low that I had forgotten.
*Sigh* guess I'll have to look into "what do I need for CVS work
from a Win32 box" and hope the comments in whatever material I do
get from CVS are enough to explain what is it that needs to be done.


> > Re .NET -- I dunno, and I wish I did!
>
> All will be revlealed after the PDC; less than 2 weeks.  I can safely say

Unfortunately I need to present my take on this to mgmt in just
1 week:-)... what (if any) IS the beef on .NET and what strategy
(if any) do we as SW developers need to put in place to be ready
(if it makes any difference to our products).  Hoped I could find
something to use to leverage Python into "major strategic effort"
status around here, but, oh well.  Guess I'll just keep trying to
sneak it in instead (and/or wait for helpful email, if something
can be mentioned in email and not on this group yet:-).

> (as this is a Python language newgroup and C# is apparently a "competing"
> language), the Python community will probably be more interested in .NET
> than in C#.  _Quite_ a bit more :-)

Which at least implies there IS more to .NET than smoke and mirrors
(and XML and SOAP) -- good to know.  Wish I did know more...


> > I'll do y'all a favour and summarize them into basically
> > two stances:
> >     "It's Microsoft and thus evil, vapourware, immoral,
> >         and/or fattening"
> >     "It's Microsoft and thus good, splendid, progressive,
> >         and/or sexy"
>
> Well put :-)

Thanks:-).


> > I do wonder what other items that have technical reality
> > are in .NET besides C#, XML, and SOAP.  If any, that is.
>
> There are - and a number of them.

Good!  Now if I only knew what:-).  Oh well, guess I'll wing
the presentation based on "need to keep flexibility in such
times of rapid change and uncertainty" and Python's excellence
at such flexibility.  Unfortunately our top mgmt is made up
of smart guys _and_ they're wise to my ways, so I doubt this
will fly (maybe I'd better come clean and confess I know there
IS something but I don't know what and will they allow me one
more month of research...?-).


Alex