dont laugh

[Jason Cunliffe]

> I have some JUNIOR staff
> and they are asking
> if there any CBT or multi-media
> courses for Python

Hello. This is long post because you touched a nerve here...

I am not only laughing, but crying too - at you folks for not appreciating
what a good question this really is!

In fact I am wondering if in part this does not get at the heart of CP4E
[computer programming for everyone]..or what is missing in that regard..

Personally I would love to spend a couple of hours sitting next to an
experienced Python programmer who could show for example the process of
putttng to together a program, testing it, shaping, how they react to error
mesasges, how they sculpt the code, how they might look at the probelm a
coule of ways, how they use the tools, how many windows open, what they look
at.. the real-world rhythm of a few hours in the life of a python program..
even ebtter if this was intelligenly structured adn replayable with
examples. It wold be nice to have a humn abeing talk and type me thourgh
some code.

Yes there is no subsitute for hands-on leaarngin doing. But ther is no
substitute for great teachers either!
And since we don t have the joys of python class in school or at our corner
adult-eduxcation center, we go to tthe web and read and donwload adn hack
explore til hopefully it clicks. Soem experienced folks can transfer theoir
previous learning fast, but for others who may have no esperiecne or com
from another background, the first steps are very important..

But consider for example what happens when you open a high powered version 9
peiece of multimedia or 3dmodellinganimatoin software.. How many of your
here woudl last 15 minutes before a deep and overwhelming sense of drowning
mingled with your wide-eyeed ambitoin ans fascination. But try to get
something done...

Ok so you get your hands on 1 hour video which shows you the basic features,
some examples adn give you a reasonable grasp of what it the rhythm of
working and how many times you have click and open, where some shortcuts are
etc..

Lord I would love a Python video from the masters at work and play. In any
field there are rare few people who _really_ understand it, and even rarer
are the ones who can teach it. Python seems easy, well documented, has a
great community etc.. and it does.

But fundamentally all the source code in the world does not help one
understand the process of programming. It does not show a newbie what to do
with all those modules and definitions after  your put them under your
pillow! [http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/lib.html]
Would someone just explain what all this stuff is and what are the 20 most
importnat things needed to know to get going..and then put the rest into
some context so one undersatnds what to look forwards to.

I will give you a very simple few example of the sorts of things which drove
me nuts when I first tried to run python on win32

1 - PYTHONPATH... wher is this thing and how do I set it  [in DOS ?, in
Python under some menu, by editing autostart.bat, in some hidous registry
sub.sub.sub.location.atribute

2 - Teh manual sayas jsut make this cute 'helloworld.py' example and save
it. So you do, but you don't save/drop it into the main python directory
[that would be dumb right?] .. no like a good kid you make a nice folder
four yourself and put your first examnpkes there.

3 - Now when you do this and go 'import helloworld' you immediately get an
infromative precise error reply written in Python[babylonian]!
What's with that?

For god sakes the newbie default for python shoudl be

a: make a folder called 'newbies' and tell newbies to save their scripts
ther so they WILL run first time
b: add an auto-include folder paths python routine which means any folder
added to the default installation will be seen and run ok.

4 - You get enthusisatic and a little braver and dowload some cool package.
unzip and put it into you python directory or mayeb eben somewhere else [god
help you poor soul]. Try to import that more errors..arggh. Eventually you
find somewhere after scouring the docs and newsgroups a coupleof VITAL
commands:

import sys, os
sys.path.append('c:\program files\python\coolnewpackage\')
os.chdir('c:\program files\python\coolnewpackage\')
os.listdir(os.getcwd())

- And after this there is the problem of packages and how modules behave
with namespace voodoo like the difference between
import *
from somewher import something
from somwhere import *

- how to get them work properly
- how to deal with the typical top 20 error mesages python throws at you in
zealous yet zenlike bliss

- What is the relationship of import, os.getcwd(), os.chdir(), '__dir__',
'__builtins__', '__doc__', '__name__' to the mysteriously named, ubiquitous,
but frequently blank files named __init__.py  ???

Can you explain that one to you mother?

All the super tools in the world do nto help if one does not knwo how to use
them or have a grasp of what they are capable of. IDL and PythonWin get
better all the time, and now we are about to see lots more cool Python on
Windows via ActiveState etc. But this only ups the ante for what a great
idea it is to make some Python training Videos/DVD/CBT.

Go to Barnes and Noble for example, there are precious few python books
visible and they are scattered around in odd corners. This is sad but not
surprising since the Python booklist has grown well over the past year. I
fear the situation may not change much in the future unless there is
widespead adoption of Python ++ big marketing push to make it happen like
WROX, MS, QuickStart, EASYthisEasyTHAT. Even if a newbie cannot afford the
satck of $40+ dollar books VB adn others tout, at least they can hang out
their for an afternoon and browse adn read and scan the range of uses,
abuses, approaches and devotions of all those authors. Python is slim but
elegantly represented.

Yes the online docs are admirable, but believe me there are many beginners
who need all the help they can to get going. What are you going to recommend
to the  nearest 12-year old who is itching to learn some programming?
RealBASIC, Python, VB, Javascript, C, C++, Dflat, Rebol, HTML, DHTML, XML,
GML, Lingo, LegoMindstorms... ???

My answer is:
1.  Start with Madromedia Flash5 and maybe LegoMindstorms for Xmas
2.  And then learn Python... [but what am I going to give them for help?]
3. Then Blender v2.x [gaming version with  python scripting
http://www.blender.nl]

Flash it turns out is a brilliant intro to object-oriented programming and a
ton of instant fun for all ages also.
The new Flash5 has a real language in it now [ActionScript = Java/ECMAScript
sytnax]  behind a cool multimensional interface and frees humans from most
of all the ghastly nvisible stuff which object-oriented programming was
supposed to..
TEST A: - try making an interface in Flash and then in Tkinter or wxPython
or some such..yeooow!@#. the difference is newbie heaven and hell
TEST B: - or Next time anyone you know has to make Powerpoint slides, crack
open a version of Flash and try that instead. Immediately it makes one think
in terms of sequence, rhythm, flow, aesthetics, reusable compoents.. perfect
for presenting ideas and teaching.

Cmon - The question I ask you is what would make a good contents for a
video, and who here would like to work with me [as camera wielding newbie]
to develop some great CBT/Training Videos for Python ?

CP4E indeed. Before re-inventing yet another language {RIYAL}, how about
first learning how to teach this one?
Python is cool, it has some ideosyncracies. I love it and hope it continues
to thrive.
regards
- Jason

________________________________________________________________
Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS.(Interactive Art and Technology).Design Director


Ken Mossman <K.Mossman at adb.com.ph> wrote in message
news:8oi3s4$8km$1 at nobel2.pacific.net.sg...
> I have some JUNIOR staff
> and they are asking
> if there any CBT or multi-media
> courses for Python
>
> They are NEWBIES !!