From techtonik at gmail.com  Thu Jul 25 10:24:37 2013
From: techtonik at gmail.com (anatoly techtonik)
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 11:24:37 +0300
Subject: [Python-legal-sig] Is CLA required to send and accept edits for
 Python documentation?
In-Reply-To: <35F44A43-24D5-4C70-A9C8-F4BC7B6F7460@gmail.com>
References: <CAPkN8xLsxdC4G_R4Z9qvHBqnu1hSpdWwFzsv4m1v5W-07ruC0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<35F44A43-24D5-4C70-A9C8-F4BC7B6F7460@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPkN8xJEsumF_t+RGm0U7DJJp95_wef0jq2YoDYHv1H_r47c=w@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 3:02 PM, Jesse Noller <jnoller at gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 1, 2013, at 8:44 AM, anatoly techtonik <techtonik at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Wikipedia doesn't require to sign up a CLA to edit pages. Is CLA required to send and accept edits for Python documentation? Why?
>
> We are not Wikipedia.
>
> Documentation is shipped with Python, it contains code examples/etc which are relevant to the code itself and therefore larger changes (just like code patches) require the ability for redistribution and licensing downstream to other vendors such as ActiveState, RedHat and others.

Thank for the explanation. Translating your language to simple form,
minor edits can go without CLA. Am I right?

Then another question. What conditions should documentation edit in
the form of patch satisfy to qualify as a "larger change"?
Ideally, I'd like to see this automatically computable.
--
anatoly t.

From techtonik at gmail.com  Thu Jul 25 11:35:44 2013
From: techtonik at gmail.com (anatoly techtonik)
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 12:35:44 +0300
Subject: [Python-legal-sig] [Python-Dev] My CLA
In-Reply-To: <CAGmFidZtyYLLXwyk9oK-rJx6b3qnr2m1nExLPOQgm+oOP_zPuA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPkN8xKytmzK6NLZZYTuTW5K3QUD58z-aMb+_mUKSZ31kJj+kQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20130211130151.GB28063@iskra.aviel.ru>
	<CAPkN8xK=uKAJHXBovn2APuuCdM+bSUyHGSBpR-TghkkDQrLtKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGmFidZtyYLLXwyk9oK-rJx6b3qnr2m1nExLPOQgm+oOP_zPuA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPkN8x+reisasN7M6c7DBHb5rPKOmqnvc5AyC2ybRuFm8pRKVQ@mail.gmail.com>

Moving not appropriate discussion from python-dev at python.org, as there
are still no short public answers for reference.

On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 9:27 PM, Amaury Forgeot d'Arc
<amauryfa at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 2013/2/11 anatoly techtonik <techtonik at gmail.com>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Oleg Broytman <phd at phdru.name> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 03:49:39PM +0300, anatoly techtonik
>>> <techtonik at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > Python Contributor Agreement
>>> > ----------------------------
>>> > I allow PSF to release all my code that I submitted to
>>> > it, under any open source license.
>>>
>>>    Good intention but wrong way of expressing it. Please do it properly
>>> --
>>> via a signed paper. You can send it by snail mail, or you can scan it
>>> and send by email.
>>
>>
>> What's wrong with it? Is the text not clear? Or there is a problem to
>> threat email as a document?
>
>
> See the "Submission Instructions" there:
> http://www.python.org/psf/contrib/
>
> The Contributor Agreement is part of a formal process. It's necessary to
> follow the rules, even if they were written by a lawyer and we don't
> understand all the reasons.

I don't agree with the point. If you sign the paper you should
understand it, otherwise the signature is not valid. If you're forced
to sign paper (like I am) without understanding, then it will not have
any power. If there was an option to run anonymous poll for people who
signed CLA, I'd be very interested how many people honestly selected
option "Didn't read really. Signed because I should".


Back to the thread. Once again I give PSF my permission:

   I allow PSF to release all my code that I submitted to
   it, under any open source license.

Unanswered questions:
1. <about content>
1.1. Is the text clear?
1.2. Is it complete?
1.3. Will it be valid if supplied with valid signature? If not, why?
1.4. Can such permission work if I explicitly include it with every
patch? The text will be modified then to the following:

   I allow PSF to release this code that I submit to
   it, under any open source license.

2. <about making the content valid>
2.1. What is required to threat this email as legally valid?
2.2. Why PSF can't have simple web form like Google?
       https://developers.google.com/open-source/cla/individual
2.3. Why can't it have a form on bug tracker like Qt?
       http://qt-project.org/legal.html#execution

--
anatoly t.

From mal at egenix.com  Thu Jul 25 12:03:36 2013
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 12:03:36 +0200
Subject: [Python-legal-sig] My CLA
In-Reply-To: <CAPkN8x+reisasN7M6c7DBHb5rPKOmqnvc5AyC2ybRuFm8pRKVQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPkN8xKytmzK6NLZZYTuTW5K3QUD58z-aMb+_mUKSZ31kJj+kQ@mail.gmail.com>	<20130211130151.GB28063@iskra.aviel.ru>	<CAPkN8xK=uKAJHXBovn2APuuCdM+bSUyHGSBpR-TghkkDQrLtKg@mail.gmail.com>	<CAGmFidZtyYLLXwyk9oK-rJx6b3qnr2m1nExLPOQgm+oOP_zPuA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPkN8x+reisasN7M6c7DBHb5rPKOmqnvc5AyC2ybRuFm8pRKVQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51F0F7F8.7070802@egenix.com>

On 25.07.2013 11:35, anatoly techtonik wrote:
> Moving not appropriate discussion from python-dev at python.org, as there
> are still no short public answers for reference.
> 
> On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 9:27 PM, Amaury Forgeot d'Arc
> <amauryfa at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> 2013/2/11 anatoly techtonik <techtonik at gmail.com>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Oleg Broytman <phd at phdru.name> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 03:49:39PM +0300, anatoly techtonik
>>>> <techtonik at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Python Contributor Agreement
>>>>> ----------------------------
>>>>> I allow PSF to release all my code that I submitted to
>>>>> it, under any open source license.
>>>>
>>>>    Good intention but wrong way of expressing it. Please do it properly
>>>> --
>>>> via a signed paper. You can send it by snail mail, or you can scan it
>>>> and send by email.
>>>
>>>
>>> What's wrong with it? Is the text not clear? Or there is a problem to
>>> threat email as a document?
>>
>>
>> See the "Submission Instructions" there:
>> http://www.python.org/psf/contrib/
>>
>> The Contributor Agreement is part of a formal process. It's necessary to
>> follow the rules, even if they were written by a lawyer and we don't
>> understand all the reasons.
> 
> I don't agree with the point. If you sign the paper you should
> understand it, otherwise the signature is not valid. If you're forced
> to sign paper (like I am) without understanding, then it will not have
> any power. 

I don't think anyone forces you to sign anything. If you don't
like the CLA, then don't sign it. The downside is that you
can't contribute code to Python, though, since we need the
CLAs to be able to defend the Python IP in court.

> If there was an option to run anonymous poll for people who
> signed CLA, I'd be very interested how many people honestly selected
> option "Didn't read really. Signed because I should".
> 
> 
> Back to the thread. Once again I give PSF my permission:
> 
>    I allow PSF to release all my code that I submitted to
>    it, under any open source license.
> 
> Unanswered questions:
> 1. <about content>
> 1.1. Is the text clear?
> 1.2. Is it complete?
> 1.3. Will it be valid if supplied with valid signature? If not, why?
> 1.4. Can such permission work if I explicitly include it with every
> patch? The text will be modified then to the following:
> 
>    I allow PSF to release this code that I submit to
>    it, under any open source license.

You have to include this text in your contributions:

"""
Copyright (c) 2013, <your name>
Licensed to PSF under a Contributor Agreement.
"""

> 2. <about making the content valid>
> 2.1. What is required to threat this email as legally valid?
> 2.2. Why PSF can't have simple web form like Google?
>        https://developers.google.com/open-source/cla/individual
> 2.3. Why can't it have a form on bug tracker like Qt?
>        http://qt-project.org/legal.html#execution

You can fill out an online form to sign the CLA:

http://www.python.org/psf/contrib/contrib-form/

or sign the printed PDF and fax/send it to the PSF.

BTW: Most questions should be answered in our FAQ:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonSoftwareFoundationLicenseFaq#Contributing_Code_to_Python

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Jul 25 2013)
>>> Python Projects, Consulting and Support ...   http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope/Plone.Database.Adapter ...       http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

::::: Try our mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! ::::::

   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/

From jnoller at gmail.com  Thu Jul 25 13:14:29 2013
From: jnoller at gmail.com (Jesse Noller)
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 06:14:29 -0500
Subject: [Python-legal-sig] My CLA
In-Reply-To: <51F0F7F8.7070802@egenix.com>
References: <CAPkN8xKytmzK6NLZZYTuTW5K3QUD58z-aMb+_mUKSZ31kJj+kQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20130211130151.GB28063@iskra.aviel.ru>
	<CAPkN8xK=uKAJHXBovn2APuuCdM+bSUyHGSBpR-TghkkDQrLtKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGmFidZtyYLLXwyk9oK-rJx6b3qnr2m1nExLPOQgm+oOP_zPuA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPkN8x+reisasN7M6c7DBHb5rPKOmqnvc5AyC2ybRuFm8pRKVQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<51F0F7F8.7070802@egenix.com>
Message-ID: <860A37DE-7229-4E1F-8705-B9C044C6A1BB@gmail.com>

Basically, what Marc said - we offer an electronic CLA today. This was announced and in place some time ago.

The last time you asked about the CLA text it was explained to you, again - it's voluntary, if your do not sign it you can not contribute.

On Jul 25, 2013, at 5:03 AM, "M.-A. Lemburg" <mal at egenix.com> wrote:

> On 25.07.2013 11:35, anatoly techtonik wrote:
>> Moving not appropriate discussion from python-dev at python.org, as there
>> are still no short public answers for reference.
>> 
>> On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 9:27 PM, Amaury Forgeot d'Arc
>> <amauryfa at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 2013/2/11 anatoly techtonik <techtonik at gmail.com>
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Oleg Broytman <phd at phdru.name> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 03:49:39PM +0300, anatoly techtonik
>>>>> <techtonik at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Python Contributor Agreement
>>>>>> ----------------------------
>>>>>> I allow PSF to release all my code that I submitted to
>>>>>> it, under any open source license.
>>>>> 
>>>>>   Good intention but wrong way of expressing it. Please do it properly
>>>>> --
>>>>> via a signed paper. You can send it by snail mail, or you can scan it
>>>>> and send by email.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> What's wrong with it? Is the text not clear? Or there is a problem to
>>>> threat email as a document?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> See the "Submission Instructions" there:
>>> http://www.python.org/psf/contrib/
>>> 
>>> The Contributor Agreement is part of a formal process. It's necessary to
>>> follow the rules, even if they were written by a lawyer and we don't
>>> understand all the reasons.
>> 
>> I don't agree with the point. If you sign the paper you should
>> understand it, otherwise the signature is not valid. If you're forced
>> to sign paper (like I am) without understanding, then it will not have
>> any power.
> 
> I don't think anyone forces you to sign anything. If you don't
> like the CLA, then don't sign it. The downside is that you
> can't contribute code to Python, though, since we need the
> CLAs to be able to defend the Python IP in court.
> 
>> If there was an option to run anonymous poll for people who
>> signed CLA, I'd be very interested how many people honestly selected
>> option "Didn't read really. Signed because I should".
>> 
>> 
>> Back to the thread. Once again I give PSF my permission:
>> 
>>   I allow PSF to release all my code that I submitted to
>>   it, under any open source license.
>> 
>> Unanswered questions:
>> 1. <about content>
>> 1.1. Is the text clear?
>> 1.2. Is it complete?
>> 1.3. Will it be valid if supplied with valid signature? If not, why?
>> 1.4. Can such permission work if I explicitly include it with every
>> patch? The text will be modified then to the following:
>> 
>>   I allow PSF to release this code that I submit to
>>   it, under any open source license.
> 
> You have to include this text in your contributions:
> 
> """
> Copyright (c) 2013, <your name>
> Licensed to PSF under a Contributor Agreement.
> """
> 
>> 2. <about making the content valid>
>> 2.1. What is required to threat this email as legally valid?
>> 2.2. Why PSF can't have simple web form like Google?
>>       https://developers.google.com/open-source/cla/individual
>> 2.3. Why can't it have a form on bug tracker like Qt?
>>       http://qt-project.org/legal.html#execution
> 
> You can fill out an online form to sign the CLA:
> 
> http://www.python.org/psf/contrib/contrib-form/
> 
> or sign the printed PDF and fax/send it to the PSF.
> 
> BTW: Most questions should be answered in our FAQ:
> 
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonSoftwareFoundationLicenseFaq#Contributing_Code_to_Python
> 
> -- 
> Marc-Andre Lemburg
> eGenix.com
> 
> Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Jul 25 2013)
>>>> Python Projects, Consulting and Support ...   http://www.egenix.com/
>>>> mxODBC.Zope/Plone.Database.Adapter ...       http://zope.egenix.com/
>>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
> ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> ::::: Try our mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! ::::::
> 
>   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
>    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
>           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
>               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/
> _______________________________________________
> Python-legal-sig mailing list
> Python-legal-sig at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-legal-sig

From mertz at gnosis.cx  Thu Jul 25 15:57:31 2013
From: mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz)
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 09:57:31 -0400
Subject: [Python-legal-sig] Is CLA required to send and accept edits for
 Python documentation?
In-Reply-To: <CAPkN8xJEsumF_t+RGm0U7DJJp95_wef0jq2YoDYHv1H_r47c=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPkN8xLsxdC4G_R4Z9qvHBqnu1hSpdWwFzsv4m1v5W-07ruC0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<35F44A43-24D5-4C70-A9C8-F4BC7B6F7460@gmail.com>
	<CAPkN8xJEsumF_t+RGm0U7DJJp95_wef0jq2YoDYHv1H_r47c=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEbHw4ZJiGR=2gOmZscggh1HSUpgA6aMRAYV9+0rM-=K_DXcjA@mail.gmail.com>

ALL changes to code or documentation distributed by the PSF require a CLA.
we do not and cannot draw some line between 'big' and 'small' changes to
skip CLA for some.
On Jul 25, 2013 1:25 AM, "anatoly techtonik" <techtonik at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 3:02 PM, Jesse Noller <jnoller at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On May 1, 2013, at 8:44 AM, anatoly techtonik <techtonik at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Wikipedia doesn't require to sign up a CLA to edit pages. Is CLA
> required to send and accept edits for Python documentation? Why?
> >
> > We are not Wikipedia.
> >
> > Documentation is shipped with Python, it contains code examples/etc
> which are relevant to the code itself and therefore larger changes (just
> like code patches) require the ability for redistribution and licensing
> downstream to other vendors such as ActiveState, RedHat and others.
>
> Thank for the explanation. Translating your language to simple form,
> minor edits can go without CLA. Am I right?
>
> Then another question. What conditions should documentation edit in
> the form of patch satisfy to qualify as a "larger change"?
> Ideally, I'd like to see this automatically computable.
> --
> anatoly t.
> _______________________________________________
> Python-legal-sig mailing list
> Python-legal-sig at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-legal-sig
>
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From techtonik at gmail.com  Thu Jul 25 16:21:26 2013
From: techtonik at gmail.com (anatoly techtonik)
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 17:21:26 +0300
Subject: [Python-legal-sig] Is CLA required to send and accept edits for
 Python documentation?
In-Reply-To: <CAEbHw4ZJiGR=2gOmZscggh1HSUpgA6aMRAYV9+0rM-=K_DXcjA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPkN8xLsxdC4G_R4Z9qvHBqnu1hSpdWwFzsv4m1v5W-07ruC0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<35F44A43-24D5-4C70-A9C8-F4BC7B6F7460@gmail.com>
	<CAPkN8xJEsumF_t+RGm0U7DJJp95_wef0jq2YoDYHv1H_r47c=w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEbHw4ZJiGR=2gOmZscggh1HSUpgA6aMRAYV9+0rM-=K_DXcjA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPkN8xK9564YnvKawQi9NNhYKJWXgpcF8Ch46+Tq+cHM1rheGw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 4:57 PM, David Mertz <mertz at gnosis.cx> wrote:
> ALL changes to code or documentation distributed by the PSF require a CLA.
> we do not and cannot draw some line between 'big' and 'small' changes to
> skip CLA for some.

You can not draw the line, because you didn't define the concept, right?
You don't want to define the concept and draw the line, because it
will be additional legal burden to sort changes to 'big' and 'small',
right?

But from the legal point of view, does really fixing a typo means
you're making a derivative work and your edit is subject to copyright
law?


If Wikipedia required to sign CLA, there would be much less valuable
content than it is now. The same is true for Python docs. If copyright
laws allows small edits, it is good to know the limits to enable more
contributions from people.
--
anatoly t.

From mal at egenix.com  Thu Jul 25 16:47:21 2013
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 16:47:21 +0200
Subject: [Python-legal-sig] Is CLA required to send and accept edits for
 Python documentation?
In-Reply-To: <CAPkN8xK9564YnvKawQi9NNhYKJWXgpcF8Ch46+Tq+cHM1rheGw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPkN8xLsxdC4G_R4Z9qvHBqnu1hSpdWwFzsv4m1v5W-07ruC0Q@mail.gmail.com>	<35F44A43-24D5-4C70-A9C8-F4BC7B6F7460@gmail.com>	<CAPkN8xJEsumF_t+RGm0U7DJJp95_wef0jq2YoDYHv1H_r47c=w@mail.gmail.com>	<CAEbHw4ZJiGR=2gOmZscggh1HSUpgA6aMRAYV9+0rM-=K_DXcjA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPkN8xK9564YnvKawQi9NNhYKJWXgpcF8Ch46+Tq+cHM1rheGw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51F13A79.7040408@egenix.com>

On 25.07.2013 16:21, anatoly techtonik wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 4:57 PM, David Mertz <mertz at gnosis.cx> wrote:
>> ALL changes to code or documentation distributed by the PSF require a CLA.
>> we do not and cannot draw some line between 'big' and 'small' changes to
>> skip CLA for some.
> 
> You can not draw the line, because you didn't define the concept, right?
> You don't want to define the concept and draw the line, because it
> will be additional legal burden to sort changes to 'big' and 'small',
> right?
> 
> But from the legal point of view, does really fixing a typo means
> you're making a derivative work and your edit is subject to copyright
> law?
> 
> 
> If Wikipedia required to sign CLA, there would be much less valuable
> content than it is now. The same is true for Python docs. If copyright
> laws allows small edits, it is good to know the limits to enable more
> contributions from people.

Why argue about this ?

If you don't want to sign the CLA that's fine.

File a doc bug with a listing of typos and someone who did sign
a CLA will eventually create the patch that's necessary to fix
them.

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Jul 25 2013)
>>> Python Projects, Consulting and Support ...   http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope/Plone.Database.Adapter ...       http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

::::: Try our mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! ::::::

   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/

From solipsis at pitrou.net  Thu Jul 25 16:48:08 2013
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 16:48:08 +0200
Subject: [Python-legal-sig]
 =?utf-8?q?Is_CLA_required_to_send_and_accept_e?=
 =?utf-8?q?dits_for_Python_documentation=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <CAEbHw4ZJiGR=2gOmZscggh1HSUpgA6aMRAYV9+0rM-=K_DXcjA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPkN8xLsxdC4G_R4Z9qvHBqnu1hSpdWwFzsv4m1v5W-07ruC0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<35F44A43-24D5-4C70-A9C8-F4BC7B6F7460@gmail.com>
	<CAPkN8xJEsumF_t+RGm0U7DJJp95_wef0jq2YoDYHv1H_r47c=w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEbHw4ZJiGR=2gOmZscggh1HSUpgA6aMRAYV9+0rM-=K_DXcjA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <abecc6b87c65291dddf76d31330ee680@ssl.pitrou.net>

On 2013-07-25 15:57, David Mertz wrote:
> ALL changes to code or documentation distributed by the PSF require a 
> CLA.
> we do not and cannot draw some line between 'big' and 'small' changes 
> to
> skip CLA for some.

We routinely do, though.

Regards

Antoine.



> On Jul 25, 2013 1:25 AM, "anatoly techtonik" <techtonik at gmail.com> 
> wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 3:02 PM, Jesse Noller <jnoller at gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>> > On May 1, 2013, at 8:44 AM, anatoly techtonik <techtonik at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Wikipedia doesn't require to sign up a CLA to edit pages. Is CLA
>> required to send and accept edits for Python documentation? Why?
>> >
>> > We are not Wikipedia.
>> >
>> > Documentation is shipped with Python, it contains code examples/etc
>> which are relevant to the code itself and therefore larger changes 
>> (just
>> like code patches) require the ability for redistribution and 
>> licensing
>> downstream to other vendors such as ActiveState, RedHat and others.
>> 
>> Thank for the explanation. Translating your language to simple form,
>> minor edits can go without CLA. Am I right?
>> 
>> Then another question. What conditions should documentation edit in
>> the form of patch satisfy to qualify as a "larger change"?
>> Ideally, I'd like to see this automatically computable.
>> --
>> anatoly t.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Python-legal-sig mailing list
>> Python-legal-sig at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-legal-sig
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Python-legal-sig mailing list
> Python-legal-sig at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-legal-sig

From techtonik at gmail.com  Fri Jul 26 09:16:22 2013
From: techtonik at gmail.com (anatoly techtonik)
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 10:16:22 +0300
Subject: [Python-legal-sig] Is CLA required to send and accept edits for
 Python documentation?
In-Reply-To: <51F13A79.7040408@egenix.com>
References: <CAPkN8xLsxdC4G_R4Z9qvHBqnu1hSpdWwFzsv4m1v5W-07ruC0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<35F44A43-24D5-4C70-A9C8-F4BC7B6F7460@gmail.com>
	<CAPkN8xJEsumF_t+RGm0U7DJJp95_wef0jq2YoDYHv1H_r47c=w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEbHw4ZJiGR=2gOmZscggh1HSUpgA6aMRAYV9+0rM-=K_DXcjA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPkN8xK9564YnvKawQi9NNhYKJWXgpcF8Ch46+Tq+cHM1rheGw@mail.gmail.com>
	<51F13A79.7040408@egenix.com>
Message-ID: <CAPkN8xLqCyBxS=zVWa64tHUMf0+-ZiHa1vn=5vKz23Nu_mt9Xw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 5:47 PM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at egenix.com> wrote:
> On 25.07.2013 16:21, anatoly techtonik wrote:
>> On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 4:57 PM, David Mertz <mertz at gnosis.cx> wrote:
>>> ALL changes to code or documentation distributed by the PSF require a CLA.
>>> we do not and cannot draw some line between 'big' and 'small' changes to
>>> skip CLA for some.
>>
>> You can not draw the line, because you didn't define the concept, right?
>> You don't want to define the concept and draw the line, because it
>> will be additional legal burden to sort changes to 'big' and 'small',
>> right?
>>
>> But from the legal point of view, does really fixing a typo means
>> you're making a derivative work and your edit is subject to copyright
>> law?
>>
>>
>> If Wikipedia required to sign CLA, there would be much less valuable
>> content than it is now. The same is true for Python docs. If copyright
>> laws allows small edits, it is good to know the limits to enable more
>> contributions from people.
>
> Why argue about this ?
>
> If you don't want to sign the CLA that's fine.

This assumption about me is wrong. I want to understand how things
work before I sign them, and I don't require appraisal for my
position.

> File a doc bug with a listing of typos and someone who did sign
> a CLA will eventually create the patch that's necessary to fix
> them.

I agree that this your proposal and Wikipedia discussion is offtopic.
Can you still answer the questions?
--
anatoly t.

From mal at egenix.com  Fri Jul 26 10:04:58 2013
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 10:04:58 +0200
Subject: [Python-legal-sig] Is CLA required to send and accept edits for
 Python documentation?
In-Reply-To: <CAPkN8xLqCyBxS=zVWa64tHUMf0+-ZiHa1vn=5vKz23Nu_mt9Xw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPkN8xLsxdC4G_R4Z9qvHBqnu1hSpdWwFzsv4m1v5W-07ruC0Q@mail.gmail.com>	<35F44A43-24D5-4C70-A9C8-F4BC7B6F7460@gmail.com>	<CAPkN8xJEsumF_t+RGm0U7DJJp95_wef0jq2YoDYHv1H_r47c=w@mail.gmail.com>	<CAEbHw4ZJiGR=2gOmZscggh1HSUpgA6aMRAYV9+0rM-=K_DXcjA@mail.gmail.com>	<CAPkN8xK9564YnvKawQi9NNhYKJWXgpcF8Ch46+Tq+cHM1rheGw@mail.gmail.com>	<51F13A79.7040408@egenix.com>
	<CAPkN8xLqCyBxS=zVWa64tHUMf0+-ZiHa1vn=5vKz23Nu_mt9Xw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51F22DAA.6070600@egenix.com>



On 26.07.2013 09:16, anatoly techtonik wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 5:47 PM, M.-A. Lemburg <mal at egenix.com> wrote:
>> On 25.07.2013 16:21, anatoly techtonik wrote:
>>> On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 4:57 PM, David Mertz <mertz at gnosis.cx> wrote:
>>>> ALL changes to code or documentation distributed by the PSF require a CLA.
>>>> we do not and cannot draw some line between 'big' and 'small' changes to
>>>> skip CLA for some.
>>>
>>> You can not draw the line, because you didn't define the concept, right?
>>> You don't want to define the concept and draw the line, because it
>>> will be additional legal burden to sort changes to 'big' and 'small',
>>> right?
>>>
>>> But from the legal point of view, does really fixing a typo means
>>> you're making a derivative work and your edit is subject to copyright
>>> law?
>>>
>>>
>>> If Wikipedia required to sign CLA, there would be much less valuable
>>> content than it is now. The same is true for Python docs. If copyright
>>> laws allows small edits, it is good to know the limits to enable more
>>> contributions from people.
>>
>> Why argue about this ?
>>
>> If you don't want to sign the CLA that's fine.
> 
> This assumption about me is wrong. I want to understand how things
> work before I sign them, and I don't require appraisal for my
> position.

Please read the resp. documentation about the CLA:

http://www.python.org/psf/contrib/
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/PythonSoftwareFoundationLicenseFaq
http://www.python.org/psf/contrib/contrib-form/

The first link very clearly outlines how the CLA works.

If you have specific questions to ask, feel free to ask them
here.

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

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