[Python-Dev] #Python3 ! ? (was Python Library Support in 3.x)

[Terry Reedy]

On 6/20/2010 6:35 AM, Laurens Van Houtven wrote:

> I'm one of the active people in #python that some people dislike for
> behavior with respect to Python 3.

As I wrote, I disliked the observable, written behavior, now changed. 
You are obviously a fine person. We both love Python and have both 
contributed time for years to helping others with Python.

The premise for this branch thread was:
IF #python is really #python2 and somewhat anti-Python3,
THEN (and only then), maybe we need a #python3.

I am delighted that you have already refuted the premise with a new, 
much improved, splash topic. I now feel free to ask Python3 questions on 
the existing channel -- things like "Is issue #### applicable to 
Python3?" -- as I work on reviewing tracker issues. In that respect, 
this thread is finished for me. But I hope it is just the start of 
better cooperation and communication.

Just a few notes in addition to other responses.

> First of all I'd like to defuse the situation.

Excellently done.

> Also, I'm pretty sure nobody has ever said that Python 3.x was a
> "failure", or anything like it.

I have no idea what has been said by you or anyone on #python, but 
people *have* posted on both python-list and here on py-dev things like 
"Python3 is not ready for use. It is a failure. Do not use it." (any of 
that sound familiar? ;-) and even "Python3 should be scrapped!". I am 
relieve that you have disassociated yourself and #python from such 
sentiments.

---
On newbies and version choice: I agree with Nick Efford that people 
using Python to learn about programming may be better off with Python3. 
I am using a subset of Python3 in a book on algorithms for the reasons 
he gave and others. Not even mentioned so far in this thread is the 
availability of unicode identifiers for people with non-Latin alphabets.

Of course, Asian schoolkids are unlikely to request help on #python. And 
the point about suggesting Python2 because that is what you all are good 
at helping with, is well taken. I do think people learning Python2 now 
should have a Python3-aware guide to doing so. This

 > In the mean while, we encourage people to write code that will be easy
 > to port and behave well in 3.x: new-style classes, don't use eager
 > versions when the Py3k default is lazy and you don't actually need the
 > eager thing, use as many third party libraries as possible (the idea
 > being that this would minimize effort needed to make the switch on the
 > grand scale of things), use absolute imports always (and only explicit
 > relative, but it's discouraged), always have a full unit test suite.

is a good start. I think something like that would be good for the 
#python web page, or added to python.org somewhere.

Terry Jan Reedy