[Python-Dev] Improve Python for embedding

[Thomas Heller]

[Thomas Heller]
>> I find the current situation when 'embedding' Python rather unsatisfying.
>

[Guido van Rossum]
> I'm interested in improve it.  Can you explain what exactly your
> 'embedding' requirements are?

see below.

>> 1. Careful preparation (hacking?) of environment variables is needed to
>> avoid that Py_Initialize() takes the default actions needed for the
>> standard Python interpreter (for example, to avoid the default sys.path).
>
> I guess it depends on the embedding needs.  Some embedded uses would
> be quite happy with the default sys.path.

Sure, but others not.

>> Possible improvements I currently can think of are:
>> 
>> - Provide a function like Py_InitializeEx(), which accepts parameters
>> specifying an initial sys.path, optimize flag, verbose flag, and so on.
>
> Except for sys.path, you can set most flags directly before calling
> Py_Initialize(), so I'm not sure if there's a need to pass these into
> Py_Initialize().

I want to specify the Python path before calling Py_Initialize(), and I
don't want it to use *any* environment variables which (again) set the
flags.  So I thought of Py_InitializeEx() which would take parameters
specifying these things, and Py_Initialize() could be changed to call
Py_InitializeEx(NULL), maybe.

>> 2. A suggestion from /F on c.l.p was to change pythonw.exe so that
>> instead of hiding all output to stderr a console window would be opened
>> to show the tracebacks.  This requires to construct an object with a
>> 'write' method doing all this magic, and it must be done after the call
>> to Py_Initialize() and before PyRun_SimpleFile().  Now, looking at the
>> code of Py_Main(), it seems impossible without rewriting most of the
>> code.
>
> I'm not sure what this has to do with embedding -- can you clarify?

The Python interpreter (dll) embedded into pythonw.exe ;-)

>
>> - Split Py_Main() into 2 functions Py_Main_Prepare() and Py_Main_Run(),
>> or let Py_Main() accept a callback function which will be called jsut
>> after Py_Initialize() has been run.
>
> OK, now I'm confused.  If you're embedding Python, why would you be
> using Py_Main() at all?

I'm probably not good at explaining these things.

I was thinking of pythonw.exe (WinMain.c).  I want to create a Python
object (an stderr writer), and assign this to sys.stderr, without
changing too much code.

Does it make more sense now?

Thomas