[Python-cuba] Joining Python Cuba

[kirby urner]

On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 11:32 PM, Olemis Lang <olemis at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 11/10/15, kirby urner <kirby.urner at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> .. [1] Considering my lack of information , all instances of "Python
> >> Cuba" in this message refer to the group of persons "shepherded" by
> >> the ASF Working Group (i.e. /me not a member atm) and subscribed to
> >> this list , rather than the set of all Python developers in Cuba (i.e.
> >> count /me in) .
> >>
> >
> >
> > Good to meet you sir!
> >
> > You mean PSF (not ASF) Working Group right?  So much "alphabet soup". :-D
> > [1]
> >
>
> Sorry . it's the habit ... :$
>
> > Just to recap some earlier discussion, Python Software Foundation is
> > especially keen to promote the brand Pycon, which is used for any "Python
> > circus" meeting various criteria, including having a published Code of
> > Conduct that's recognized as such.
> >
>
> Ok , I'm aware of that , like I just said I've been there so I had to
> review the Code of Conduct and even read about cases of people been
> banned due to e.g. consumption of illegal drugs during PyCon
> conferences , just to understand the reasons behind the adoption of
> such rules , and the implications .
>
>
I think when you get a very diverse group flying in from around the world,
having a Code of Conduct provides a touchstone regarding how to be on one's
best behavior i.e. what does that even mean.  OK to wear a burka?

The CofC says enough to set a tone and moreover suggests designated people
are open to receiving reports of violations and taking some kind of
action.  These practices are evolving, but yes, it's an attempt by geeks to
be self-policing.

A lot of the impetus came from what was considered "sexual harassment"
and/or  "gender bias" and was relating to talk content, slides in
particular.  What are the lines we should not cross?

Personally, I dislike the idea of "banning" people in the sense of
maintaining a blacklist, some database of personas non-Grata (unwelcome
folks).  If an individual smokes weed in a facility where that's not
allowed, the consequences should not follow them for life.

Here in Portland, buying weed and using it for recreational purposes is
completely legal and encouraged by the state government as a source of tax
revenue -- but we're still not allowed to smoke indoors in places like the
Convention Center.  So I could see politely asking someone to leave the
room -- but that's just a formality.

When I was on the Diversity list (I got kicked off eventually) I took issue
with those saying we should ban Richard Stallman from coming to any Pycon
until he officially apologized for some joke he'd make, I forget about what
or in what context.

I personally don't think there's any human right to not be offended i.e. I
have no right to ban people from making jokes our Youtubes I consider
beyond the pale in terms of bad taste.  I'm offended every day and so what,
I should just deal with it.  We're even allowed to criticize Python itself
i.e. give talks on "why Python sucks" -- in a parallel universe, I could
see that being a no-no under a less benevolent dictator.

On the other hand, mean-spirited people like to gang up and pick on someone
(e.g. on Twitter), i.e. individuals may be targeted for retaliation and
when those practices spill over into a Pycon...  again, we don't want
people banned or even intimidated, as to ban or intimidate is a form of
harassment as well.

Even a person with detractors and anti-fans (like Richard Stallman) should
feel free to walk the halls, give talks, socialize with friends and so on.
I'm a fan of Stallman by the way and don't care about what jokes he makes.

On psf-members, as well as Diversity, I took up the more uncomfortable
topic of whether a Code of Conduct might address the issue of handguns.
Even if the state in question allows them, maybe we want a Pycon CofC to
contain specific language regarding their acceptability or
non-acceptability, just so people have some sense of what's OK and what's
not OK.

Some people complained I was getting off topic, but if you live in the USA
you know this continues to be a live issue and we gain nothing by not
talking about it.

Since I've already brought up my share of controversial topics and
exhausted my political capital in so doing to some extent (gotta recharge
those batteries), my policy these days is more in the direction of keeping
my mouth shut and seeing if others want to pick up these hot potato issues
and discuss them at more length.

Regarding Cuba, it's a populous island with many intelligent well-educated
people (at least I know that much, I've never been there but my friend
Glenn used to organize tours for retired US military, which included
meetups with Fidel Castro) and there's probably sufficient critical mass to
have more than one User Group eventually (are there some already?).

I get from your postings that you are concerned about some top-down
monopolistic approach wherein Pythonistas in Cuba are somehow wrangled into
a single herd or group.  I would not see that as a prerequisite for hosting
a Pycon i.e. "getting everyone on the same page first" does not seem to be
to be a necessary first step.  All it takes is for a few people to get
organized.

The thing about PyEvents, including Pycon, is they're able to run in
parallel.  Cuba could have a Pycon at any time.  The April Fools joke about
the North American Pycon going to Cuba might have left the impression that
a Pycon is like the Olympics, where groups have to get in line to host them
in sequence.  Pycons are not like that.

Cuba could have one at the same time as one in Austin or Rio.

I'm sure you know that, but I like to keep reiterating that point for those
who might not.

Kirby
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