From betsy at python.org Mon Nov 2 15:38:03 2015 From: betsy at python.org (Betsy Waliszewski) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 12:38:03 -0800 Subject: [Python-cuba] ACTION NEEDED: Monthly PSF Work Group Report Message-ID: Hi, It's time for your monthly work group report - for October :-). I'd like to include this in the agenda for our next board meeting (week of Nov. 9). It you could send it to me by the end of the week, that would be excellent! If you have nothing new to report, please let me know. Thanks, Betsy -- Betsy Waliszewski Python Software Foundation Event Coordinator / Administrator @betswaliszewski -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pablocelayes at gmail.com Fri Nov 6 05:17:24 2015 From: pablocelayes at gmail.com (Pablo Gabriel Celayes) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2015 11:17:24 +0100 Subject: [Python-cuba] ACTION NEEDED: Monthly PSF Work Group Report In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Betsy! I have some news to report about my work for the group, but I am quite busy at the moment. Would it be too late if I send them to you on Monday around 7PM CEST? Best regards, On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 9:38 PM, Betsy Waliszewski wrote: > Hi, > > It's time for your monthly work group report - for October :-). I'd like > to include this in the agenda for our next board meeting (week of Nov. 9). > It you could send it to me by the end of the week, that would be excellent! > > If you have nothing new to report, please let me know. > > Thanks, > > Betsy > > -- > Betsy Waliszewski > Python Software Foundation > Event Coordinator / Administrator > @betswaliszewski > > _______________________________________________ > Python-cuba mailing list > Python-cuba at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-cuba > > -- *?l**l**?l**l**?* ????? *?ll?**l?* https://www.linkedin.com/in/pablogabrielcelayes -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From betsy at python.org Fri Nov 6 08:22:23 2015 From: betsy at python.org (Betsy Waliszewski) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2015 08:22:23 -0500 Subject: [Python-cuba] ACTION NEEDED: Monthly PSF Work Group Report Message-ID: Hi Pablo, Our board meeting is Monday at 18:00 UTC. Betsy On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 5:17 AM, Pablo Gabriel Celayes < pablocelayes at gmail.com> wrote: > Hello Betsy! > > I have some news to report about my work for the group, but I am quite > busy at the moment. > Would it be too late if I send them to you on Monday around 7PM CEST? > > Best regards, > > On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 9:38 PM, Betsy Waliszewski > wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> It's time for your monthly work group report - for October :-). I'd like >> to include this in the agenda for our next board meeting (week of Nov. 9). >> It you could send it to me by the end of the week, that would be excellent! >> >> If you have nothing new to report, please let me know. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Betsy >> >> -- >> Betsy Waliszewski >> Python Software Foundation >> Event Coordinator / Administrator >> @betswaliszewski >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Python-cuba mailing list >> Python-cuba at python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-cuba >> >> > > > -- > > *?l**l**?l**l**?* ????? *?ll?**l?* > https://www.linkedin.com/in/pablogabrielcelayes > > -- Betsy Waliszewski Python Software Foundation Event Coordinator / Administrator @betswaliszewski -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pablocelayes at gmail.com Fri Nov 6 09:02:29 2015 From: pablocelayes at gmail.com (Pablo Gabriel Celayes) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2015 15:02:29 +0100 Subject: [Python-cuba] ACTION NEEDED: Monthly PSF Work Group Report In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Great, just in time then, because I am two hours ahead, so I'll send it before 19:00CEST=17:00UTC. If I have a moment I will try to send it earlier. Best regards, have a great weekend! On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 2:22 PM, Betsy Waliszewski wrote: > Hi Pablo, > > Our board meeting is Monday at 18:00 UTC. > > Betsy > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 5:17 AM, Pablo Gabriel Celayes < > pablocelayes at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hello Betsy! >> >> I have some news to report about my work for the group, but I am quite >> busy at the moment. >> Would it be too late if I send them to you on Monday around 7PM CEST? >> >> Best regards, >> >> On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 9:38 PM, Betsy Waliszewski >> wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> It's time for your monthly work group report - for October :-). I'd like >>> to include this in the agenda for our next board meeting (week of Nov. 9). >>> It you could send it to me by the end of the week, that would be excellent! >>> >>> If you have nothing new to report, please let me know. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Betsy >>> >>> -- >>> Betsy Waliszewski >>> Python Software Foundation >>> Event Coordinator / Administrator >>> @betswaliszewski >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Python-cuba mailing list >>> Python-cuba at python.org >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-cuba >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> *?l**l**?l**l**?* ????? *?ll?**l?* >> https://www.linkedin.com/in/pablogabrielcelayes >> >> > > > > -- > Betsy Waliszewski > Python Software Foundation > Event Coordinator / Administrator > @betswaliszewski > -- *?l**l**?l**l**?* ????? *?ll?**l?* https://www.linkedin.com/in/pablogabrielcelayes -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From betsywaliszewski at gmail.com Fri Nov 6 11:22:40 2015 From: betsywaliszewski at gmail.com (betsywaliszewski at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2015 11:22:40 -0500 Subject: [Python-cuba] ACTION NEEDED: Monthly PSF Work Group Report In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: Thanks so much! Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 6, 2015, at 9:02 AM, Pablo Gabriel Celayes wrote: > > Great, just in time then, because I am two hours ahead, so I'll send it before 19:00CEST=17:00UTC. > > If I have a moment I will try to send it earlier. > > Best regards, have a great weekend! > >> On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 2:22 PM, Betsy Waliszewski wrote: >> Hi Pablo, >> >> Our board meeting is Monday at 18:00 UTC. >> >> Betsy >> >>> On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 5:17 AM, Pablo Gabriel Celayes wrote: >>> Hello Betsy! >>> >>> I have some news to report about my work for the group, but I am quite busy at the moment. >>> Would it be too late if I send them to you on Monday around 7PM CEST? >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>>> On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 9:38 PM, Betsy Waliszewski wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> It's time for your monthly work group report - for October :-). I'd like to include this in the agenda for our next board meeting (week of Nov. 9). It you could send it to me by the end of the week, that would be excellent! >>>> >>>> If you have nothing new to report, please let me know. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Betsy >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Betsy Waliszewski >>>> Python Software Foundation >>>> Event Coordinator / Administrator >>>> @betswaliszewski >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Python-cuba mailing list >>>> Python-cuba at python.org >>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-cuba >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> ?ll?ll? ????? ?ll?l? >>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/pablogabrielcelayes >> >> >> >> -- >> Betsy Waliszewski >> Python Software Foundation >> Event Coordinator / Administrator >> @betswaliszewski > > > > -- > > ?ll?ll? ????? ?ll?l? > https://www.linkedin.com/in/pablogabrielcelayes -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pablocelayes at gmail.com Mon Nov 9 13:21:55 2015 From: pablocelayes at gmail.com (Pablo Gabriel Celayes) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2015 19:21:55 +0100 Subject: [Python-cuba] ACTION NEEDED: Monthly PSF Work Group Report In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: Sorry about the delay Betsy. Here goes my report of my contributions to the group during this past month: * contacted the organizers of the Merchise Meetup group in La Habana, a local community of developers currently organizing tech events in La Habana. We started discussing the possibility of organizing a PyDay event during one of my upcoming visits to Cuba (January and March 2016). * I helped my cuban colleague Alejandro Zamora Fonseca to get a visa to visit Argentina in December. We will use this visit to discuss about the most helpful ways of supporting the growth of the Python community in Cuba. Ok, this is it for now, my flight to Finland is leaving. Best regards On Nov 6, 2015 5:22 PM, wrote: > Thanks so much! > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Nov 6, 2015, at 9:02 AM, Pablo Gabriel Celayes > wrote: > > Great, just in time then, because I am two hours ahead, so I'll send it > before 19:00CEST=17:00UTC. > > If I have a moment I will try to send it earlier. > > Best regards, have a great weekend! > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 2:22 PM, Betsy Waliszewski > wrote: > >> Hi Pablo, >> >> Our board meeting is Monday at 18:00 UTC. >> >> Betsy >> >> On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 5:17 AM, Pablo Gabriel Celayes < >> pablocelayes at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hello Betsy! >>> >>> I have some news to report about my work for the group, but I am quite >>> busy at the moment. >>> Would it be too late if I send them to you on Monday around 7PM CEST? >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 9:38 PM, Betsy Waliszewski >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> It's time for your monthly work group report - for October :-). I'd >>>> like to include this in the agenda for our next board meeting (week of Nov. >>>> 9). It you could send it to me by the end of the week, that would be >>>> excellent! >>>> >>>> If you have nothing new to report, please let me know. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Betsy >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Betsy Waliszewski >>>> Python Software Foundation >>>> Event Coordinator / Administrator >>>> @betswaliszewski >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Python-cuba mailing list >>>> Python-cuba at python.org >>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-cuba >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> *?l**l**?l**l**?* ????? *?ll?**l?* >>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/pablogabrielcelayes >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Betsy Waliszewski >> Python Software Foundation >> Event Coordinator / Administrator >> @betswaliszewski >> > > > > -- > > *?l**l**?l**l**?* ????? *?ll?**l?* > https://www.linkedin.com/in/pablogabrielcelayes > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From betsy at python.org Mon Nov 9 14:25:37 2015 From: betsy at python.org (Betsy Waliszewski) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2015 11:25:37 -0800 Subject: [Python-cuba] ACTION NEEDED: Monthly PSF Work Group Report In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: thanks, Pablo. Have a good flight! Betsy On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 10:21 AM, Pablo Gabriel Celayes < pablocelayes at gmail.com> wrote: > Sorry about the delay Betsy. Here goes my report of my contributions to > the group during this past month: > > * contacted the organizers of the Merchise Meetup group in La Habana, a > local community of developers currently organizing tech events in La Habana. > We started discussing the possibility of organizing a PyDay event during > one of my upcoming visits to Cuba (January and March 2016). > > * I helped my cuban colleague Alejandro Zamora Fonseca to get a visa to > visit Argentina in December. We will use this visit to discuss about the > most helpful ways of supporting the growth of the Python community in Cuba. > > Ok, this is it for now, my flight to Finland is leaving. > > Best regards > On Nov 6, 2015 5:22 PM, wrote: > >> Thanks so much! >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Nov 6, 2015, at 9:02 AM, Pablo Gabriel Celayes >> wrote: >> >> Great, just in time then, because I am two hours ahead, so I'll send it >> before 19:00CEST=17:00UTC. >> >> If I have a moment I will try to send it earlier. >> >> Best regards, have a great weekend! >> >> On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 2:22 PM, Betsy Waliszewski >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Pablo, >>> >>> Our board meeting is Monday at 18:00 UTC. >>> >>> Betsy >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 5:17 AM, Pablo Gabriel Celayes < >>> pablocelayes at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello Betsy! >>>> >>>> I have some news to report about my work for the group, but I am quite >>>> busy at the moment. >>>> Would it be too late if I send them to you on Monday around 7PM CEST? >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 9:38 PM, Betsy Waliszewski >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> It's time for your monthly work group report - for October :-). I'd >>>>> like to include this in the agenda for our next board meeting (week of Nov. >>>>> 9). It you could send it to me by the end of the week, that would be >>>>> excellent! >>>>> >>>>> If you have nothing new to report, please let me know. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Betsy >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Betsy Waliszewski >>>>> Python Software Foundation >>>>> Event Coordinator / Administrator >>>>> @betswaliszewski >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Python-cuba mailing list >>>>> Python-cuba at python.org >>>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-cuba >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> *?l**l**?l**l**?* ????? *?ll?**l?* >>>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/pablogabrielcelayes >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Betsy Waliszewski >>> Python Software Foundation >>> Event Coordinator / Administrator >>> @betswaliszewski >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> *?l**l**?l**l**?* ????? *?ll?**l?* >> https://www.linkedin.com/in/pablogabrielcelayes >> >> >> -- Betsy Waliszewski Python Software Foundation Event Coordinator / Administrator @betswaliszewski -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From olemis at gmail.com Tue Nov 10 15:20:00 2015 From: olemis at gmail.com (Olemis Lang) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 15:20:00 -0500 Subject: [Python-cuba] Joining Python Cuba Message-ID: Hello ! This is my first post to this ML so I'll introduce myself . As you can see my name is Olemis Lang . Briefly , I am the maintainer of some packages hosted by PyPI , a committer of the Brython project , a contributor (since the very beginning) of Apache Bloodhound and a formerly active member of the Trac community , being the current maintainer of some plugins as well ... amongst other things ... I'm subscribed to (but not very active in) python-dev ML . I do collaborate more actively in testing-in-python ML . I participated in PyCon 2014 @ Montr?al since the beginning until the end . I was present in some tutorials (Django , SQLAlchemy, and Shiny Let's be Bad Guys..., Python code optimisation) , during conferences, and finally all days of dev sprints (mainly Trac + a quick contact with Dave Brondsema and SourceForge's Allura team) . That was one of the most incredible experiences I've had in my life , only compared to my very recent participation in Startup Weekend Havana . I am also member of ANEC and UNAICC . I've reviewed the archives and noticed that I know quite a few members subscribed to this list . Therefore I wanted to be informed of whether there is any activity (outside UCI). I'm looking forward to be notified of meetings and events , and to get in touch with local organisers as well as the PSF Working Group . I am also extremely interested to know whether there is any real schedule (deadlines/program/...) for the organisation of PyCon Cuba any time this year or the next ; what would be the groups/enterprises/organisations/institutions involved . I am not sure of the initial details discussed by PSF and Cuban colleagues . Therefore , since I have +30y experience in the "living here" business , I also wanted to know a few more things regarding both PyCon organisation as well as Python Cuba internal mechanics : 1. What's the role of governmental institutions with respect to this group? IOW , when I was young (and, btw, many similar initiatives led by community members were asphyxiated to the point of making them disappear) all organised groups like this had to be "monitored" or bound to a Ministry. That's the case for ANEC , UNAICC , ACCS , UNEAC , and so on ... Is this group formally registered ? What Ministry does it belong to ? 2. Is there a formal membership request process ? 3. What is the relationship between Python Cuba and the recent initiative known as "Uni?n de Inform?ticos de Cuba" ? Again ... I'm not a member of "Uni?n de Inform?ticos de Cuba" and I do not have plans to join in any time soon either . 4. What can be the role of persons working as "Trabajadores por cuenta propia" ? I mean , for me it's been more than +4y not working for any governmental institution of any kind . Beyond this , I'd also like to know whether the ASF is planning to run (or support) courses in the country . Considering my personal interests I'm thinking of educational programs about, say, PyPy (yes ! yes ! yes !) , High Performance Python , embedded Python solutions , Python in Big Data , C extensions , ... Finally , but not least important , I wonder whether the PSF has considered a roadmap to foster the progressive incorporation of Cuban developers to the python-dev community . The way I see it now , beyond the obvious meritocracy system [2]_ , current limitations like the precarious conditions for many Cuban citizens to access the Internet (but not limited to that) represent a big barrier for such an integration . Has anything like this ever been discussed ? Ok , ok ... that's enough for a presentation message . I'm glad to be here, finally . Nice to meet you guys ! See you around ! p.s. BTW , I recall I downloaded some time ago all videos in PyCon 2014 and 2015 playlists. .. [1] Considering my lack of information , all instances of "Python Cuba" in this message refer to the group of persons "shepherded" by the ASF Working Group (i.e. /me not a member atm) and subscribed to this list , rather than the set of all Python developers in Cuba (i.e. count /me in) . .. [2] http://jessenoller.com/blog/2009/02/04/a-brief-introduction-to-python-core-development-completely-different -- Regards, Olemis - @olemislc Apache? Bloodhound contributor http://issues.apache.org/bloodhound http://blood-hound.net Brython committer http://brython.info http://github.com/brython-dev/brython Blog ES: http://simelo-es.blogspot.com/ Blog EN: http://simelo-en.blogspot.com/ Featured article: From kirby.urner at gmail.com Tue Nov 10 15:50:41 2015 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 12:50:41 -0800 Subject: [Python-cuba] Joining Python Cuba In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > .. [1] Considering my lack of information , all instances of "Python > Cuba" in this message refer to the group of persons "shepherded" by > the ASF Working Group (i.e. /me not a member atm) and subscribed to > this list , rather than the set of all Python developers in Cuba (i.e. > count /me in) . > Good to meet you sir! You mean PSF (not ASF) Working Group right? So much "alphabet soup". :-D [1] Just to recap some earlier discussion, Python Software Foundation is especially keen to promote the brand Pycon, which is used for any "Python circus" meeting various criteria, including having a published Code of Conduct that's recognized as such. However, some of our Brazilians remember "Pycon" not translating well and we've used the term "PyEvent" to purposely avoid the issue of whether a Pycon [tm] is what Cuba's Pythonistas actually want and need. Anyone is free to host PyEvents (e.g. install parties) without official notice to "the authorities" (PSF included). As shown by recent Board Meeting minutes, the PSF routinely disburses funds to groups around the world eager to start up a user group, hold a conference ("Pycon") etc., so naturally that might happen vis-a-vis some specific Cuba-based event proposal (that the PSF would help out financially). Some of us in this Working Group may come forward with such proposals, or sign on to proposals from others. As for access to the Internet, I agree that's difficult in many places around the world (though not in Seoul they tell me). We've learned at OSCON from a delegation from South Asia that language is also a barrier. We have come to an agreement on this listserv, that English need not be the only language used for posting. 1. What's the role of governmental institutions with respect to this group? IOW , when I was young (and, btw, many similar initiatives led by community members were asphyxiated to the point of making them disappear) all organised groups like this had to be "monitored" or bound to a Ministry. That's the case for ANEC , UNAICC , ACCS , UNEAC , and so on ... Is this group formally registered ? What Ministry does it belong to ? PSF is a not-for-profit corporation registered in the State of Delaware. It's behind the Python.org website and Python language trademark, as well as Pycon [tm] as mentioned above. As such it has no formal connection with any government or ministry, unless you count incorporating according to some well established rules in the US code base. Some of us, myself included, have borrowed from Monty Python, with its Ministry of Silly Walks [2], and our propensity towards self-governance, to style as a "nation" in its own right. This is currently a popular marketing strategy among beer makers, with Rogue Nation (here in Oregon) and McMenamins (another brewer) issuing rather realistic looking passports.[3] Again, this is marketing, not legalese. Python Nation has no seat in the UN. :-D Welcome again! Kirby [1] http://worldgame.blogspot.com/2015/08/alphabet-soup.html [2] https://youtu.be/aOqHNNmTz68 [3] http://www.mcmenamins.com/1961-mcmenamins-passport-faqs http://www.rogue.com/roguenation/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From olemis at gmail.com Wed Nov 11 02:32:59 2015 From: olemis at gmail.com (Olemis Lang) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 02:32:59 -0500 Subject: [Python-cuba] Joining Python Cuba In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: On 11/10/15, kirby urner wrote: >> .. [1] Considering my lack of information , all instances of "Python >> Cuba" in this message refer to the group of persons "shepherded" by >> the ASF Working Group (i.e. /me not a member atm) and subscribed to >> this list , rather than the set of all Python developers in Cuba (i.e. >> count /me in) . >> > > > Good to meet you sir! > > You mean PSF (not ASF) Working Group right? So much "alphabet soup". :-D > [1] > Sorry . it's the habit ... :$ > Just to recap some earlier discussion, Python Software Foundation is > especially keen to promote the brand Pycon, which is used for any "Python > circus" meeting various criteria, including having a published Code of > Conduct that's recognized as such. > Ok , I'm aware of that , like I just said I've been there so I had to review the Code of Conduct and even read about cases of people been banned due to e.g. consumption of illegal drugs during PyCon conferences , just to understand the reasons behind the adoption of such rules , and the implications . [...] > > As shown by recent Board Meeting minutes, the PSF routinely disburses funds > to groups around the world eager to start up a user group, hold a > conference ("Pycon") etc., so naturally that might happen vis-a-vis some > specific Cuba-based event proposal (that the PSF would help out > financially). Some of us in this Working Group may come forward with such > proposals, or sign on to proposals from others. > > As for access to the Internet, I agree that's difficult in many places > around the world (though not in Seoul they tell me). > I think you are misunderstanding my initial intentions . My point is the following . In Cuba the price of Internet access is $2 USD / h . That's a fact , and a situation that makes it hard to collaborate with *the outside world* . I was wondering whether there were already groups (outside UCI , which I know that exist but are not trivial to reach out) organizing meetings somewhere and offering free (cheap) Internet access to Python resources . /me just wondering ... I do not know what's been achieved so far . > We've learned at OSCON from a delegation from South Asia that language is > also a barrier. > > We have come to an agreement on this listserv, that English need not be the > only language used for posting. > I took a time to read the archives and noticed a few messages written in Spanish . That's cool . This happens quite often e.g. we've tolerated and encouraged similar behavior in Brython ML as well , mainly to support the Portuguese, French and Spanish users . At the beginning we had three MLs and that setup did not actually work at all . > 1. What's the role of governmental institutions with respect to this > group? [...] > > PSF is a not-for-profit corporation registered in the State of Delaware. > It's behind the Python.org website and Python language trademark, as well > as Pycon [tm] as mentioned above. > > As such it has no formal connection with any government or ministry, unless > you count incorporating according to some well established rules in the US > code base. > I get it now . Like I just said , I spent some time reading the archives . I got a better idea of what's been going on . [...] > > Again, this is marketing, not legalese. Python Nation has no seat in the > UN. :-D :) > > Welcome again! > Thanks ! Firstly I realized that some PSF members have been involved in this initiative . I'm glad to see persons I admire for all their contributions to the Python community , been part of this effort . In particular I'd like to thank Ewa Jodlowska , and the people involved in the organization of PyCon 2014 for their dedication and everything they did so that I could participate in PyCon 2014 event . I look forward to know what can be done . [...] -- Regards, Olemis - @olemislc Apache? Bloodhound contributor http://issues.apache.org/bloodhound http://blood-hound.net Brython committer http://brython.info http://github.com/brython-dev/brython Blog ES: http://simelo-es.blogspot.com/ Blog EN: http://simelo-en.blogspot.com/ Featured article: From olemis at gmail.com Wed Nov 11 11:05:42 2015 From: olemis at gmail.com (Olemis Lang) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 11:05:42 -0500 Subject: [Python-cuba] Joining Python Cuba In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 11/10/15, Olemis Lang wrote: > [...] > > I am also extremely interested to know whether there is any real > schedule (deadlines/program/...) for the organisation of PyCon Cuba > any time this year or the next ; what would be the > groups/enterprises/organisations/institutions involved . > I'll clarify the reasons why I asked these questions . I knew of this list mainly because of a message [1]_ sent by Roberto Rosario where he said that "Before joining this work group I had started piecing together a roadmap for PyCon Latam Cuba." > I am not sure of the initial details discussed by PSF and Cuban > colleagues . Therefore , since I have +30y experience in the "living > here" business , I also wanted to know a few more things regarding > both PyCon organisation as well as Python Cuba internal mechanics : > > 1. What's the role of governmental institutions with respect to this > group? > IOW , when I was young (and, btw, many similar initiatives led > by community > members were asphyxiated to the point of making them disappear) all > organised groups like this had to be "monitored" or bound to a > Ministry. > That's the case for ANEC , UNAICC , ACCS , UNEAC , and so on ... > Is this group formally registered ? What Ministry does it belong to ? > 2. Is there a formal membership request process ? > 3. What is the relationship between Python Cuba and the recent initiative > known as "Uni?n de Inform?ticos de Cuba" ? > Again ... I'm not a member of "Uni?n de Inform?ticos de Cuba" > and I do not have plans to join in any time soon either . > 4. What can be the role of persons working as "Trabajadores por > cuenta propia" ? > I mean , for me it's been more than +4y not working for any > governmental institution of any kind . > [...] In the same message [1]_ he reasoned about the fact that : "Right now there is no Cuban Python community, at least not under a unified banner. I think that goes before doing a PyCon." So I thought this was already achieved or on the works . Then I read about UCI community proposal [2]_ and maybe over-reacted , but for very good reasons as already suggested [1]_ by Roberto Rosario (as well as other facts) . In Cuba , especially initiatives coming from UCI, are *logically* biased towards *monopolization* . In order for you to understand, IMO "Uni?n de Inform?ticos de Cuba" is one of the recent organizations created for this purpose , considering the logical changes after legalization of "trabajadores por cuenta propia" (i.e. freelancers) . It is *logical* to think that a user group in UCI , created with UCI resources , is governed by the institution , which in turn is directly subordinated to the highest levels of the government , so I was just trying to identify the boundaries of this initiative (that I consider positive, btw ; nothing to say against it, but ...) not from the PSF side but from the local community perspective . I'm hoping this will clarify my initial message . Yesterday night I read more archived messages and knew of Roberto's declining to be Chairman of Python-Cuba . I'm very sorry about that . p.s. btw , what's the *recommended way* to follow a thread about an existing conversation (which I do not have in my inbox ;) ? .. [1] https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-cuba/2015-May/000016.html .. [2] https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-cuba/2015-May/000055.html -- Regards, Olemis - @olemislc Apache? Bloodhound contributor http://issues.apache.org/bloodhound http://blood-hound.net Brython committer http://brython.info http://github.com/brython-dev/brython Blog ES: http://simelo-es.blogspot.com/ Blog EN: http://simelo-en.blogspot.com/ Featured article: From kirby.urner at gmail.com Wed Nov 11 11:50:14 2015 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 08:50:14 -0800 Subject: [Python-cuba] Joining Python Cuba In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 11:32 PM, Olemis Lang wrote: > On 11/10/15, kirby urner wrote: > >> .. [1] Considering my lack of information , all instances of "Python > >> Cuba" in this message refer to the group of persons "shepherded" by > >> the ASF Working Group (i.e. /me not a member atm) and subscribed to > >> this list , rather than the set of all Python developers in Cuba (i.e. > >> count /me in) . > >> > > > > > > Good to meet you sir! > > > > You mean PSF (not ASF) Working Group right? So much "alphabet soup". :-D > > [1] > > > > Sorry . it's the habit ... :$ > > > Just to recap some earlier discussion, Python Software Foundation is > > especially keen to promote the brand Pycon, which is used for any "Python > > circus" meeting various criteria, including having a published Code of > > Conduct that's recognized as such. > > > > Ok , I'm aware of that , like I just said I've been there so I had to > review the Code of Conduct and even read about cases of people been > banned due to e.g. consumption of illegal drugs during PyCon > conferences , just to understand the reasons behind the adoption of > such rules , and the implications . > > I think when you get a very diverse group flying in from around the world, having a Code of Conduct provides a touchstone regarding how to be on one's best behavior i.e. what does that even mean. OK to wear a burka? The CofC says enough to set a tone and moreover suggests designated people are open to receiving reports of violations and taking some kind of action. These practices are evolving, but yes, it's an attempt by geeks to be self-policing. A lot of the impetus came from what was considered "sexual harassment" and/or "gender bias" and was relating to talk content, slides in particular. What are the lines we should not cross? Personally, I dislike the idea of "banning" people in the sense of maintaining a blacklist, some database of personas non-Grata (unwelcome folks). If an individual smokes weed in a facility where that's not allowed, the consequences should not follow them for life. Here in Portland, buying weed and using it for recreational purposes is completely legal and encouraged by the state government as a source of tax revenue -- but we're still not allowed to smoke indoors in places like the Convention Center. So I could see politely asking someone to leave the room -- but that's just a formality. When I was on the Diversity list (I got kicked off eventually) I took issue with those saying we should ban Richard Stallman from coming to any Pycon until he officially apologized for some joke he'd make, I forget about what or in what context. I personally don't think there's any human right to not be offended i.e. I have no right to ban people from making jokes our Youtubes I consider beyond the pale in terms of bad taste. I'm offended every day and so what, I should just deal with it. We're even allowed to criticize Python itself i.e. give talks on "why Python sucks" -- in a parallel universe, I could see that being a no-no under a less benevolent dictator. On the other hand, mean-spirited people like to gang up and pick on someone (e.g. on Twitter), i.e. individuals may be targeted for retaliation and when those practices spill over into a Pycon... again, we don't want people banned or even intimidated, as to ban or intimidate is a form of harassment as well. Even a person with detractors and anti-fans (like Richard Stallman) should feel free to walk the halls, give talks, socialize with friends and so on. I'm a fan of Stallman by the way and don't care about what jokes he makes. On psf-members, as well as Diversity, I took up the more uncomfortable topic of whether a Code of Conduct might address the issue of handguns. Even if the state in question allows them, maybe we want a Pycon CofC to contain specific language regarding their acceptability or non-acceptability, just so people have some sense of what's OK and what's not OK. Some people complained I was getting off topic, but if you live in the USA you know this continues to be a live issue and we gain nothing by not talking about it. Since I've already brought up my share of controversial topics and exhausted my political capital in so doing to some extent (gotta recharge those batteries), my policy these days is more in the direction of keeping my mouth shut and seeing if others want to pick up these hot potato issues and discuss them at more length. Regarding Cuba, it's a populous island with many intelligent well-educated people (at least I know that much, I've never been there but my friend Glenn used to organize tours for retired US military, which included meetups with Fidel Castro) and there's probably sufficient critical mass to have more than one User Group eventually (are there some already?). I get from your postings that you are concerned about some top-down monopolistic approach wherein Pythonistas in Cuba are somehow wrangled into a single herd or group. I would not see that as a prerequisite for hosting a Pycon i.e. "getting everyone on the same page first" does not seem to be to be a necessary first step. All it takes is for a few people to get organized. The thing about PyEvents, including Pycon, is they're able to run in parallel. Cuba could have a Pycon at any time. The April Fools joke about the North American Pycon going to Cuba might have left the impression that a Pycon is like the Olympics, where groups have to get in line to host them in sequence. Pycons are not like that. Cuba could have one at the same time as one in Austin or Rio. I'm sure you know that, but I like to keep reiterating that point for those who might not. Kirby -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From olemis at gmail.com Wed Nov 11 14:41:23 2015 From: olemis at gmail.com (Olemis Lang) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 14:41:23 -0500 Subject: [Python-cuba] Joining Python Cuba In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: On 11/11/15, kirby urner wrote: > On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 11:32 PM, Olemis Lang wrote: > >> On 11/10/15, kirby urner wrote: >> >> .. [1] Considering my lack of information , all instances of "Python >> >> Cuba" in this message refer to the group of persons "shepherded" by >> >> the ASF Working Group (i.e. /me not a member atm) and subscribed to >> >> this list , rather than the set of all Python developers in Cuba (i.e. >> >> count /me in) . >> >> >> > >> > >> > Good to meet you sir! >> > >> > You mean PSF (not ASF) Working Group right? So much "alphabet soup". >> > :-D >> > [1] >> > >> >> Sorry . it's the habit ... :$ >> >> > Just to recap some earlier discussion, Python Software Foundation is >> > especially keen to promote the brand Pycon, which is used for any >> > "Python >> > circus" meeting various criteria, including having a published Code of >> > Conduct that's recognized as such. >> > >> >> Ok , I'm aware of that , like I just said I've been there so I had to >> review the Code of Conduct and even read about cases of people been >> banned due to e.g. consumption of illegal drugs during PyCon >> conferences , just to understand the reasons behind the adoption of >> such rules , and the implications . >> >> > I think when you get a very diverse group flying in from around the world, > having a Code of Conduct provides a touchstone regarding how to be on one's > best behavior i.e. what does that even mean. OK to wear a burka? > [...] > > A lot of the impetus came from what was considered "sexual harassment" > and/or "gender bias" and was relating to talk content, slides in > particular. What are the lines we should not cross? > [...] I'll be more concise so as to clarify any possible misunderstanding . In my previous message I was just trying to say that I read articles like the ones listed below regarding actual applications of the CofC . I was not criticising the CofC itself http://nedbatchelder.com/blog/201303/community_conduct_conflict_and_communication.html http://term.ie/blog/how-to-get-banned-from-pycon/ https://amandablumwords.wordpress.com/2013/03/21/3/ https://twitter.com/termie/status/453230554406588416 ... I recall there was an article even more explicit about the author assuming his responsibility for smoking weed in Testing BoF , but I just could not find it You know, some friends of mine knew I'd go there , they wanted Cuban cigars and I wanted to be in "safe zone" . Beyond this , both aspects you mention are subject to interpretation, and our culture is quite different from yours . Indeed many habits we have here and are understood as normal might be interpreted as an infraction of the CofC (I'm not listing examples to keep this conversation short) . I also appreciate everything you do to make people feel comfortable during the conference , e.g. what you did about Jewish celebrations during PyCon 2015 considering what happened in PyCon 2014 . > > Some people complained I was getting off topic, but if you live in the USA > you know this continues to be a live issue and we gain nothing by not > talking about it. > Indeed , the subject is interesting but I will not follow [...] > > Regarding Cuba, it's a populous island with many intelligent well-educated > people [...] and there's probably sufficient critical mass to > have more than one User Group eventually (are there some already?). > Yes , I agree . At UCI there is one . A well-known community outside UCI ... well I've never heard of it , that's exactly what I'm asking since the beginning . > I get from your postings that you are concerned about some top-down > monopolistic approach wherein Pythonistas in Cuba are somehow wrangled into > a single herd or group. I would not see that as a prerequisite for hosting > a Pycon i.e. "getting everyone on the same page first" does not seem to be > to be a necessary first step. All it takes is for a few people to get > organized. > Briefly , this is my point . We tried to do this (organising the free software community) once upon a time and we were smashed like pumpkins . Things have changed , so it was possible for others to create e.g. a user group at UCI . It is not an university like , say , Universidad de La Habana , ISPJAE , Universidad de Las Villas , ... For instance , access is restricted , it has a special status , important decisions are centralised at highest levels , and so on ... Hence , considering what I read in the archives I am trying to figure out : 1. What's the scope of the initiative mentioned by Carlos Osiel [1]_ ? ... or maybe the one suggested by Pedro Urra [2]_ ? Are they the same ? * if the group's been created in UCI and uses its resources then it is strongly bound to UCI ; which is ok , but not the kind of community I'd like to join . 2. Are there any Python user groups outside UCI that I can contact ? Shall we create it (them) ? 3. Is there any roadmap to make PyCon Cuba idea succeed ? 4. If there are official organisers this side [1]_ , committed to making this work then what has been done up to this time ? 5. Who can I contact this side ? These are all simple questions , I guess , but if there is a chance for simplification please let me know and I'll reformulate them once again . I'm hoping to find a space for contributing to the *PyCon Cuba* idea , and if it does not exist then contribute to its creation ... but considering a realistic roadmap and schedule , not like wasted time in the past . [...] .. [1] https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-cuba/2015-May/000055.html .. [2] https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-cuba/2015-May/000044.html -- Regards, Olemis - @olemislc Apache? Bloodhound contributor http://issues.apache.org/bloodhound http://blood-hound.net Brython committer http://brython.info http://github.com/brython-dev/brython Blog ES: http://simelo-es.blogspot.com/ Blog EN: http://simelo-en.blogspot.com/ Featured article: From olemis at gmail.com Wed Nov 11 15:09:55 2015 From: olemis at gmail.com (Olemis Lang) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 15:09:55 -0500 Subject: [Python-cuba] Joining Python Cuba In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: On 11/11/15, Olemis Lang wrote: > [...] > > Hence , considering > what I read in the archives I am trying to figure out : > > 1. What's the scope of the initiative mentioned by Carlos Osiel [1]_ ? > ... or maybe the one suggested by Pedro Urra [2]_ ? Are they the same > ? > * if the group's been created in UCI and uses its > resources then it is strongly bound to UCI ; which is ok , but not > the kind of community I'd like to join . > 2. Are there any Python user groups outside UCI that I can contact ? > Shall we create it (them) ? > 3. Is there any roadmap to make PyCon Cuba idea succeed ? > 4. If there are official organisers this side [1]_ , > committed to making this work then what has been done up to this time > ? > 5. Who can I contact this side ? > Sorry I forgot one question . 6. Is there any formalities or procedures to request joining Python-Cuba WG ? I'm expecting that, should they exist, they will be more simple than e.g. ASF process involving PMC approval , CLA , ... but , since I do not know , in the end I'm hoping you can explain . [...] -- Regards, Olemis - @olemislc Apache? Bloodhound contributor http://issues.apache.org/bloodhound http://blood-hound.net Brython committer http://brython.info http://github.com/brython-dev/brython Blog ES: http://simelo-es.blogspot.com/ Blog EN: http://simelo-en.blogspot.com/ Featured article: From kirby.urner at gmail.com Wed Nov 11 15:52:20 2015 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 12:52:20 -0800 Subject: [Python-cuba] Joining Python Cuba In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: > > > > > I'll be more concise so as to clarify any possible misunderstanding . > In my previous message I was just trying to say that I read articles > like the ones listed below regarding actual applications of the CofC . > I was not criticising the CofC itself > > > http://nedbatchelder.com/blog/201303/community_conduct_conflict_and_communication.html > http://term.ie/blog/how-to-get-banned-from-pycon/ > https://amandablumwords.wordpress.com/2013/03/21/3/ > https://twitter.com/termie/status/453230554406588416 > ... I recall there was an article even more explicit about > the author assuming his responsibility for smoking weed in Testing BoF > , but I just could not find it > > You know, some friends of mine knew I'd go there , they wanted Cuban > cigars and I wanted to be in "safe zone" . Beyond this , both aspects > you mention are subject to interpretation, and our culture is quite > different from yours . Indeed many habits we have here and are > understood as normal might be interpreted as an infraction of the CofC > (I'm not listing examples to keep this conversation short) . > > I also appreciate everything you do to make people feel comfortable > during the conference , e.g. what you did about Jewish celebrations > during PyCon 2015 considering what happened in PyCon 2014 . > > I appreciate your willingness to continue the conversation as I think the CofC and practices evolving around it is a substantive issue that relates directly to PSF / Pycon -- and is open to interpretation as you say. As Ned Batchelder's put it: "Getting 2500 people together without friction is impossible. Friction and offense will happen, the question is, what do we do about it?" My approach for the sake of argument (or let's say debate) on Diversity was to take a different approach and ask about alternative "Pycons" (PyEvents) that were maybe not so PG family-friendly (Disneyland level) and maybe more R (using movie-ratings jargon). Could we embrace these events in good conscience? What are our parameters and criteria? It's up to the hosting group to propose the CofC, not PSF's job to supply it, and some science fiction gamer conferences feature a lot of adult themes and demented cartoons. The dress code encourages a more Halloween flavor. Some booths might sell comic books. There's a CofC, but it contains nothing about "appropriate attire" as it's assumed some people will come as squid-monsters. That doesn't sound like a Pycon at all, in 2015, or even a PyOhio. But what if they call it "PyFest" and say it's to celebrate geek culture and Python in particular, and the organizers simply want PSF to help promote it and perhaps suggest sponsors. They invite PSF to have a booth, even offer to pay for it, a way of saying "thank you". Victoria's Secret and Cond? Nast also have booths, turns out both use Python in-house. https://aws.amazon.com/solutions/case-studies/conde-nast/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reddit (Conde-Nast still a big investor) http://www.businessinsider.com/lyndsey-scott-model-and-coder-2014-1 ("I'm a huge fan of Python") Is PSF going to turn down any and every opportunity that does not come shrink-wrapped in the conventional Pycon mold? Is it that PSF would reject overtures from specific sponsors or brands, or specific countries? Is Pycon / Palestine an option? We've already seen a Pycon / Iran. We have an e-voting process in place. I think PSF is in a position to pick and choose which events it gets behind and sponsors, but what will it pick, and whom will it choose? These are questions the Board and voting members will continue to face, going forward. > > > > I'm hoping to find a space for contributing to the *PyCon Cuba* idea , > and if it does not exist then contribute to its creation ... but > considering a realistic roadmap and schedule , not like wasted time in > the past . > Judging from the level of interest piqued by the April Fool's joke article, a LOT of people are curious about visiting to Cuba. There's an eagerness, especially on the part of those who've lived through Prohibition (on travel to Cuba). My guess is it would be all too easy for some non-Cuban entrepreneur to locate some appropriate venue with nearby hotels and "make it happen" with all too little local support. But that's just an extreme. http://www.cubatechtravel.com/destination/extrahotel/2145/havana-convention-center I think back to a Europython in Vilnius Lithuania. I hung out with the organizers and saw up close what that was like. The Lithuanians did a lot of legwork getting extra WiFi, beyond what the hotel could provide. However non-Lithuanian Europython organizers did not just sit back. They flew to the venue early plus had scoped it out earlier and were in on the planning. If Cuban Pythonistas (say User Group X) wants to host an international PyCon with people coming in from all over, then I think the model should be one of drumming up interest among potential non-Cuban sponsors who would enjoy the boost to their reputations from helping to stage such a thing. Do you imagine it would be OK to have private companies advertising their role e.g. Unilever (just to pick a company already active in Cuba -- not a US firm). Who might these companies be? What nonprofits would we like to see represented? EFF? Kirby PS: I don't think there's any formal process for joining the Cuba working group beyond joining the listserv, as we have identified this Python.org listserv itself as our principal tool for collaboration. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: