[python-committers] Transfer of power

[Brett Cannon]

On Sat, 14 Jul 2018 at 11:37 Tim Peters <tim.peters at gmail.com> wrote:

> [Tim]
>
>> > If there are 3 Elders [snip]
>>
>
> [Łukasz Langa]
>
> It looks like the number 3 is popular in this context. What makes it so
>> attractive?
>>
>
> Likely because it was the first specific non-insane number someone
> mentioned.  It helps to be concrete, but I don't know that anyone is wedded
> to 3.
>
>
>> I see a bunch of problems with such a low number, like the ability for a
>> single corporation to take over the design process of Python by employing
>> just two of the three members (consistently voting over the third one).
>
>
> Perhaps then you don't want a "supreme court" at all.  We've been living
> for decades with the possibility that a single corporation could buy off
> Guido.  Would it really help to change 3 to 5?  Then Evil Corp only needs
> to buy off 3 - but the larger the number, the more likely Evil Corp will
> get some votes in its favor without needing to pay.
>
> If semi-dictators are part of the New Order at all, they need to be
> trusted a whole lot (although I suggested a mechanism for impeachment too).
>
>
>
>> 3 also has high likelihood of ties if one of the members abstains.
>
>
> I don't care about that.  How often did Guido abstain?  it's an Elder's
> _job_ to make potentially unpopular decisions.  If one abstained without
> extraordinarily solid reason, I'd move to impeach them - they're not doing
> the job in that case.
>
> If they tied, that's fine too.  Ties favor the status quo (same as if the
> proposed change had been rejected).  For that reason, I'm not even wedded
> to an odd number.
>

That's a good point. Since this is typically going to be a yes/no question
instead of an A/B question, ties that go in favour of the status quo aren't
a stalemate issue.

-Brett


>
>
>
>> And so on.
>>
>
> Likewise in the other direction.  For example, how many "extremely
> trusted" people can we even get to volunteer for a contentious, long-term,
> non-paying job?  I don't know.  "3" probably started with the first person
> here who suggested specific names and could only come up with 3 ;-)
>
>
> Taking a step back, before we talk names, term limits and even numbers of
>> council members, Python needs a "constitution" which will codify what the
>> council is and how it functions.
>
>
> "Feedback loops" - all decisions feed into each other, in all directions.
> For example, the number of people on the council has real effects on what
> it's _possible_ for it do, and on how it functions.  It doesn't hurt to
> think about everything at once ;-)
>
>
>  Barry calls it PEP 2 but I'd like to understand who is supposed to author
>> it and who is supposed to accept it.
>
>
>> Any committer is in a position to suggest parts of or the entirety of
>> such a document. Otherwise we create a fractal problem of who and how
>> decides on who shouId be writing it. Ultimately we are volunteers, the ones
>> who step up and do the work.
>>
>
>  Sure!
>
> Ideally Guido would accept the PEP but I'm not sure if he is willing to.
>
>
> His initial message here seemed very clear that he wants us to "figure
> something out for yourselves".  He's tired of the battles, and perhaps you
> have to be as old as him (as I was 4 years ago) to grasp what "bone weary"
> really means ;-)
>
>
>> If that is indeed the case then how should this be done so that the
>> document is universally accepted by all committers?
>>
>
> Perhaps it won't be - after all, much of the point to a dictator-workalike
> is that universal acceptance is a rare thing in real life. Guido left us
> with an interesting puzzle to solve :-)
>
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