From solipsis at pitrou.net  Sun Apr  3 17:17:43 2011
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2011 17:17:43 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda
Message-ID: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>


Hello,

I'd like to propose giving committer rights to Nadeem Vawda.
He has submitted a number of patches since the beginning of the year,
culminating with a complete rewrite of BZ2File in pure Python allowing
to add new features (such as the support for arbitrary file-like
objects) and maintain the code much more easily.

His name appears on 11 commits in the default branch.

Regards

Antoine.



From orsenthil at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 17:27:20 2011
From: orsenthil at gmail.com (Senthil Kumaran)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2011 23:27:20 +0800
Subject: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda
In-Reply-To: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinuTpbaSbqD9T5gB2dEc40N965paQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 11:17 PM, Antoine Pitrou <solipsis at pitrou.net> wrote:
> I'd like to propose giving committer rights to Nadeem Vawda.

+1 to this proposal. Please ensure that Nadeem Vawda is "interested" too.


-- 
Senthil

From victor.stinner at haypocalc.com  Sun Apr  3 18:28:31 2011
From: victor.stinner at haypocalc.com (Victor Stinner)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2011 18:28:31 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda
In-Reply-To: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <1301848111.9400.2.camel@marge>

Hi,

Le dimanche 03 avril 2011 ? 17:17 +0200, Antoine Pitrou a ?crit :
> I'd like to propose giving committer rights to Nadeem Vawda.
> He has submitted a number of patches since the beginning of the year,
> culminating with a complete rewrite of BZ2File in pure Python allowing
> to add new features (such as the support for arbitrary file-like
> objects) and maintain the code much more easily.

Oh. I realized that I forgot to add him for his work on #10512 (and
other related issues): fix ResourceWarning (unclosed files and sockets)
in some tests, and sometimes in modules. Sorry for that.

+1 to give him the committer right.

Victor


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Apr  3 19:35:52 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2011 13:35:52 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda
In-Reply-To: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <4D98AFF8.5020205@udel.edu>

On 4/3/2011 11:17 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> I'd like to propose giving committer rights to Nadeem Vawda.
> He has submitted a number of patches since the beginning of the year,
> culminating with a complete rewrite of BZ2File in pure Python allowing
> to add new features (such as the support for arbitrary file-like
> objects) and maintain the code much more easily.

Upon seeing the patch, I read the issue log, skimmed through the patch, 
and was duly impressed. The patch showed competence with .c, .py, and 
.rst files. Since you just added Nadeem to ACKS, I thought we should 
encourage more contributions.

> His name appears on 11 commits in the default branch.

Given that more have already been made, I agree:
+1

Terry


From raymond.hettinger at gmail.com  Sun Apr  3 20:51:04 2011
From: raymond.hettinger at gmail.com (Raymond Hettinger)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2011 11:51:04 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinuTpbaSbqD9T5gB2dEc40N965paQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<BANLkTinuTpbaSbqD9T5gB2dEc40N965paQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6EFCC319-E70E-419B-B411-8D7522E81AC4@gmail.com>


On Apr 3, 2011, at 8:27 AM, Senthil Kumaran wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 11:17 PM, Antoine Pitrou <solipsis at pitrou.net> wrote:
>> I'd like to propose giving committer rights to Nadeem Vawda.
> 
> +1 to this proposal. Please ensure that Nadeem Vawda is "interested" too.
> 

... and that he's interested in being a long-term contributor.

We don't benefit from having a large number of people
with rarely used commit rights or folks that check-in a
bunch of code and then disappear.


Raymond


From guido at python.org  Sun Apr  3 21:04:49 2011
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2011 12:04:49 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda
In-Reply-To: <6EFCC319-E70E-419B-B411-8D7522E81AC4@gmail.com>
References: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<BANLkTinuTpbaSbqD9T5gB2dEc40N965paQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6EFCC319-E70E-419B-B411-8D7522E81AC4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTike6wKQmQNJgFYN=Z0gNNvBJ5RQddtR+8yrJL5V@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 11:51 AM, Raymond Hettinger
<raymond.hettinger at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Apr 3, 2011, at 8:27 AM, Senthil Kumaran wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 11:17 PM, Antoine Pitrou <solipsis at pitrou.net> wrote:
>>> I'd like to propose giving committer rights to Nadeem Vawda.
>>
>> +1 to this proposal. Please ensure that Nadeem Vawda is "interested" too.
>>
>
> ... and that he's interested in being a long-term contributor.
>
> We don't benefit from having a large number of people
> with rarely used commit rights or folks that check-in a
> bunch of code and then disappear.

OTOH I don't see much of a cost either to having folks with
rarely-used commit rights (I am one myself :-), and I do see a risk in
placing the bar for commit rights too high (I don't want the Python
committers to be "growing old together"). So I think that it's enough
to require that someone is interested (always assuming we trust them).

I don't know Nadeem or his work so I'd abstain on this specific vote,
but the number of +1 votes (and lack of counter-votes) from people I
trust is enough for me.

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)

From solipsis at pitrou.net  Sun Apr  3 21:17:10 2011
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2011 21:17:10 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda
In-Reply-To: <6EFCC319-E70E-419B-B411-8D7522E81AC4@gmail.com>
References: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<BANLkTinuTpbaSbqD9T5gB2dEc40N965paQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6EFCC319-E70E-419B-B411-8D7522E81AC4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1301858230.3512.22.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Le dimanche 03 avril 2011 ? 11:51 -0700, Raymond Hettinger a ?crit :
> On Apr 3, 2011, at 8:27 AM, Senthil Kumaran wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 11:17 PM, Antoine Pitrou <solipsis at pitrou.net> wrote:
> >> I'd like to propose giving committer rights to Nadeem Vawda.
> > 
> > +1 to this proposal. Please ensure that Nadeem Vawda is "interested" too.
> > 
> 
> ... and that he's interested in being a long-term contributor.

Nadeem told me he was interested in getting commit rights.

I deliberately don't ask about "being a long-term contributor", since
participating in a FLOSS project is not like entering a marital
relationship, and demanding such commitment would be, IMHO, misled. The
mechanics of contribution are such that many of us probably didn't know
they wanted to be long-term contributors by the time they started
posting patches.

(what can be expected is some kind of reactivity if you come to be the
dedicated maintainer of a piece of code, but that's not what we are
discussing here)

A pragmatic reason for adding new developers is also that it relieves us
existing developers of some of the work (of studying and committing
patches from trusted people).

Regards

Antoine.



From tjreedy at udel.edu  Sun Apr  3 22:05:50 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2011 16:05:50 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda
In-Reply-To: <1301858230.3512.22.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<BANLkTinuTpbaSbqD9T5gB2dEc40N965paQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6EFCC319-E70E-419B-B411-8D7522E81AC4@gmail.com>
	<1301858230.3512.22.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <4D98D31E.7080409@udel.edu>

On 4/3/2011 3:17 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:

> A pragmatic reason for adding new developers is also that it relieves us
> existing developers of some of the work (of studying and committing
> patches from trusted people).

Right. This particular large and somewhat complex patch needed (greatly 
benefited from) your review, but for some easy bugfix patches, 
committing to multiple versions is more work than the patch itself.

Terry

From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Apr  4 00:08:10 2011
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2011 18:08:10 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda
In-Reply-To: <4D98D31E.7080409@udel.edu>
References: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<BANLkTinuTpbaSbqD9T5gB2dEc40N965paQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6EFCC319-E70E-419B-B411-8D7522E81AC4@gmail.com>
	<1301858230.3512.22.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<4D98D31E.7080409@udel.edu>
Message-ID: <8761070A-054F-44D4-A659-24CA16B20366@holdenweb.com>

On Apr 3, 2011, at 4:05 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:

> On 4/3/2011 3:17 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> 
>> A pragmatic reason for adding new developers is also that it relieves us
>> existing developers of some of the work (of studying and committing
>> patches from trusted people).
> 
> Right. This particular large and somewhat complex patch needed (greatly benefited from) your review, but for some easy bugfix patches, committing to multiple versions is more work than the patch itself.
> 
> Terry

I haven't seen anyone yet suggesting that we obtain a signed contributor agreement from Nadeem, but it's beginning to sound like that's the next step.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden
steve at holdenweb.com




From solipsis at pitrou.net  Mon Apr  4 00:15:49 2011
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2011 00:15:49 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda
In-Reply-To: <8761070A-054F-44D4-A659-24CA16B20366@holdenweb.com>
References: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<BANLkTinuTpbaSbqD9T5gB2dEc40N965paQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6EFCC319-E70E-419B-B411-8D7522E81AC4@gmail.com>
	<1301858230.3512.22.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<4D98D31E.7080409@udel.edu>
	<8761070A-054F-44D4-A659-24CA16B20366@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <1301868949.3512.24.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Le dimanche 03 avril 2011 ? 18:08 -0400, Steve Holden a ?crit :
> On Apr 3, 2011, at 4:05 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> 
> > On 4/3/2011 3:17 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> > 
> >> A pragmatic reason for adding new developers is also that it relieves us
> >> existing developers of some of the work (of studying and committing
> >> patches from trusted people).
> > 
> > Right. This particular large and somewhat complex patch needed (greatly benefited from) your review, but for some easy bugfix patches, committing to multiple versions is more work than the patch itself.
> > 
> > Terry
> 
> I haven't seen anyone yet suggesting that we obtain a signed
> contributor agreement from Nadeem, but it's beginning to sound like
> that's the next step.

We already have it (see below).

cheers

Antoine.


-------- Message transf?r? --------
De: Pat Campbell <patcam at python.org>
?: PSF Members <psf-members at python.org>, PSF Board <psf at python.org>
Sujet: [PSF-Members] Contributor Agreement - Nadeem Vawda
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 12:19:28 -0400

We received a contributor agreement from Nadeem Vawda by fax.
 
Thanks,
Pat

-- 
Pat Campbell
PSF Administrator/Secretary
patcam at python.org



From barry at python.org  Tue Apr  5 21:07:15 2011
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 15:07:15 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Keyword expansion in online PEPs
Message-ID: <20110405150715.60d69b10@limelight.wooz.org>

I'm still a little confused about keyword expansion for PEPs.  Georg says
here:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2011-March/001572.html

that he's enabled the extension "locally", but I don't quite understand if
that means he did it only in his copy of the repo, or on python.org.  Clearly,
keywords are not getting expanded in the online version of the PEP:

http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0396/

and while I'm not sure if .hg/hgrc is version controlled in
ssh://hg at hg.python.org/peps, the file there definitely does not have the
keyword extension enabled.  This pages recommends it be enabled only per-repo,
not globally:

http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/KeywordExtension

I think we want keywords to be expanded in the online version of the PEPs.
How can we make that happen and what do PEP authors need to do?

-Barry

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From mal at egenix.com  Tue Apr  5 21:28:03 2011
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2011 21:28:03 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Keyword expansion in online PEPs
In-Reply-To: <20110405150715.60d69b10@limelight.wooz.org>
References: <20110405150715.60d69b10@limelight.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <4D9B6D43.8070103@egenix.com>

Barry Warsaw wrote:
> I'm still a little confused about keyword expansion for PEPs.  Georg says
> here:
> 
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2011-March/001572.html
> 
> that he's enabled the extension "locally", but I don't quite understand if
> that means he did it only in his copy of the repo, or on python.org.  Clearly,
> keywords are not getting expanded in the online version of the PEP:
> 
> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0396/
> 
> and while I'm not sure if .hg/hgrc is version controlled in
> ssh://hg at hg.python.org/peps, the file there definitely does not have the
> keyword extension enabled.  This pages recommends it be enabled only per-repo,
> not globally:
> 
> http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/KeywordExtension
> 
> I think we want keywords to be expanded in the online version of the PEPs.
> How can we make that happen and what do PEP authors need to do?

Related to this, I think that the website cronjob updating the PEP
is no longer running, or at least it appears so...

Several PEPs still have links to the SVN repo and some of them
give a 404 when trying to fetch the .txt file:

http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0001/ (SVN, Last-modified link works)
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0385/ (SVN, Last-modified link works)
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0396/ (SVN, 404)

Others point to the HG repo, like probably all PEPs pages should:

http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0100/ (HG)
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/ (HG, but gives an error)

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Apr 05 2011)
>>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...        http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ...             http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! ::::


   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
               http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/

From g.brandl at gmx.net  Tue Apr  5 22:37:58 2011
From: g.brandl at gmx.net (Georg Brandl)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2011 22:37:58 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Keyword expansion in online PEPs
In-Reply-To: <4D9B6D43.8070103@egenix.com>
References: <20110405150715.60d69b10@limelight.wooz.org>
	<4D9B6D43.8070103@egenix.com>
Message-ID: <infuji$j8p$1@dough.gmane.org>

Am 05.04.2011 21:28, schrieb M.-A. Lemburg:
> Barry Warsaw wrote:
>> I'm still a little confused about keyword expansion for PEPs.  Georg says
>> here:
>> 
>> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2011-March/001572.html
>> 
>> that he's enabled the extension "locally", but I don't quite understand if
>> that means he did it only in his copy of the repo, or on python.org.

The latter.

>>  Clearly,
>> keywords are not getting expanded in the online version of the PEP:
>> 
>> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0396/

They seem to be now (but I don't know who or what changed).

>> and while I'm not sure if .hg/hgrc is version controlled in
>> ssh://hg at hg.python.org/peps, the file there definitely does not have the
>> keyword extension enabled.

Yes, because that's not the clone where the PEPs are built; that one is in
/data/website-build/build/peps, and it has the keyword ext enabled.

>>  This pages recommends it be enabled only per-repo,
>> not globally:
>> 
>> http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/KeywordExtension
>> 
>> I think we want keywords to be expanded in the online version of the PEPs.
>> How can we make that happen and what do PEP authors need to do?

There shouldn't be anything necessary for PEP authors.

> Related to this, I think that the website cronjob updating the PEP
> is no longer running, or at least it appears so...
> 
> Several PEPs still have links to the SVN repo and some of them
> give a 404 when trying to fetch the .txt file:
> 
> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0001/ (SVN, Last-modified link works)
> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0385/ (SVN, Last-modified link works)
> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0396/ (SVN, 404)
> 
> Others point to the HG repo, like probably all PEPs pages should:
> 
> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0100/ (HG)
> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/ (HG, but gives an error)

Not sure why, especially not why it's like that for PEP 396, which only was
added after the switch and therefore the SVN link is broken.

The website build is such a horrid twisty maze of hooks, suid binaries,
scripts, cronjobs and scripts again that I gave up trying to force a full
rebuild of all PEPs, which I thought would have replaced all  At one point I assu


From g.brandl at gmx.net  Tue Apr  5 22:42:05 2011
From: g.brandl at gmx.net (Georg Brandl)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2011 22:42:05 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Keyword expansion in online PEPs
In-Reply-To: <infuji$j8p$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <20110405150715.60d69b10@limelight.wooz.org>	<4D9B6D43.8070103@egenix.com>
	<infuji$j8p$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <infur8$j8p$2@dough.gmane.org>

Am 05.04.2011 22:37, schrieb Georg Brandl:
> Am 05.04.2011 21:28, schrieb M.-A. Lemburg:
>> Barry Warsaw wrote:
>>> I'm still a little confused about keyword expansion for PEPs.  Georg says
>>> here:
>>> 
>>> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2011-March/001572.html
>>> 
>>> that he's enabled the extension "locally", but I don't quite understand if
>>> that means he did it only in his copy of the repo, or on python.org.
> 
> The latter.
> 
>>>  Clearly,
>>> keywords are not getting expanded in the online version of the PEP:
>>> 
>>> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0396/
> 
> They seem to be now (but I don't know who or what changed).
> 
>>> and while I'm not sure if .hg/hgrc is version controlled in
>>> ssh://hg at hg.python.org/peps, the file there definitely does not have the
>>> keyword extension enabled.
> 
> Yes, because that's not the clone where the PEPs are built; that one is in
> /data/website-build/build/peps, and it has the keyword ext enabled.
> 
>>>  This pages recommends it be enabled only per-repo,
>>> not globally:
>>> 
>>> http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/KeywordExtension
>>> 
>>> I think we want keywords to be expanded in the online version of the PEPs.
>>> How can we make that happen and what do PEP authors need to do?
> 
> There shouldn't be anything necessary for PEP authors.
> 
>> Related to this, I think that the website cronjob updating the PEP
>> is no longer running, or at least it appears so...
>> 
>> Several PEPs still have links to the SVN repo and some of them
>> give a 404 when trying to fetch the .txt file:
>> 
>> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0001/ (SVN, Last-modified link works)
>> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0385/ (SVN, Last-modified link works)
>> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0396/ (SVN, 404)
>> 
>> Others point to the HG repo, like probably all PEPs pages should:
>> 
>> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0100/ (HG)
>> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/ (HG, but gives an error)
> 
> Not sure why, especially not why it's like that for PEP 396, which only was
> added after the switch and therefore the SVN link is broken.
> 
> The website build is such a horrid twisty maze of hooks, suid binaries,
> scripts, cronjobs and scripts again that I gave up trying to force a full
> rebuild of all PEPs, which I thought would have replaced all  

Sorry, sent too soon.  Here's the full sentence:

The website build is such a horrid twisty maze of hooks, suid binaries,
scripts, cronjobs and scripts again that I gave up trying to force a full
rebuild of all PEPs, which I thought would have replaced all the SVN
links.  Since they were still working (and as long as the PEPs didn't
change, at which point they would be rebuilt, point to the correct source),
I just let it be.

But clearly, there's something more amiss here -- I'd appreciate if someone
else could have a look and fix it.   (I doubt it: my last request to
pydotorg about my half-assed fixing of the website build in the aftermath of
the server OS upgrade wasn't answered at all.)

Georg


From barry at python.org  Tue Apr  5 22:53:01 2011
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 16:53:01 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Keyword expansion in online PEPs
In-Reply-To: <infuji$j8p$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <20110405150715.60d69b10@limelight.wooz.org>
	<4D9B6D43.8070103@egenix.com> <infuji$j8p$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20110405165301.6ca97305@neurotica.wooz.org>

On Apr 05, 2011, at 10:37 PM, Georg Brandl wrote:

>>>  Clearly,
>>> keywords are not getting expanded in the online version of the PEP:
>>> 
>>> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0396/
>
>They seem to be now (but I don't know who or what changed).

But not correctly.

PEP:	396
Title:	Module Version Numbers
Version:	65628
Last-Modified:	2008-08-10 09:59:20 -0400 (Sun, 10 Aug 2008)

>>> and while I'm not sure if .hg/hgrc is version controlled in
>>> ssh://hg at hg.python.org/peps, the file there definitely does not have the
>>> keyword extension enabled.
>
>Yes, because that's not the clone where the PEPs are built; that one is in
>/data/website-build/build/peps, and it has the keyword ext enabled.

I see, cool.

>>>  This pages recommends it be enabled only per-repo,
>>> not globally:
>>> 
>>> http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/KeywordExtension
>>> 
>>> I think we want keywords to be expanded in the online version of the PEPs.
>>> How can we make that happen and what do PEP authors need to do?
>
>There shouldn't be anything necessary for PEP authors.

Sounds good.

>> Related to this, I think that the website cronjob updating the PEP
>> is no longer running, or at least it appears so...
>> 
>> Several PEPs still have links to the SVN repo and some of them
>> give a 404 when trying to fetch the .txt file:
>> 
>> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0001/ (SVN, Last-modified link works)
>> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0385/ (SVN, Last-modified link works)
>> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0396/ (SVN, 404)
>> 
>> Others point to the HG repo, like probably all PEPs pages should:
>> 
>> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0100/ (HG)
>> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/ (HG, but gives an error)
>
>Not sure why, especially not why it's like that for PEP 396, which only was
>added after the switch and therefore the SVN link is broken.
>
>The website build is such a horrid twisty maze of hooks, suid binaries,
>scripts, cronjobs and scripts again that I gave up trying to force a full
>rebuild of all PEPs, which I thought would have replaced all At one point I
>assu

The PSU does *not* exist.

-Barry
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From solipsis at pitrou.net  Tue Apr  5 23:53:06 2011
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2011 23:53:06 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Keyword expansion in online PEPs
In-Reply-To: <20110405165301.6ca97305@neurotica.wooz.org>
References: <20110405150715.60d69b10@limelight.wooz.org>
	<4D9B6D43.8070103@egenix.com> <infuji$j8p$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<20110405165301.6ca97305@neurotica.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <1302040386.3510.6.camel@localhost.localdomain>


> >Not sure why, especially not why it's like that for PEP 396, which only was
> >added after the switch and therefore the SVN link is broken.
> >
> >The website build is such a horrid twisty maze of hooks, suid binaries,
> >scripts, cronjobs and scripts again that I gave up trying to force a full
> >rebuild of all PEPs, which I thought would have replaced all At one point I
> >assu
> 
> The PSU does *not* exist.

You mean those /usr/lib/psu-x86_64/ directories don't exist in Ubuntu
Neurasthenic Negligent Neutral Northern Nailed Nagging Naked Nosy Newt?

Regards

Antoine.



From orsenthil at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 09:07:22 2011
From: orsenthil at gmail.com (Senthil Kumaran)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 15:07:22 +0800
Subject: [python-committers] Fwd: [Python-checkins] cpython (merge 2.7 ->
 2.7): hg pull/merge - Changes to accomodate.
In-Reply-To: <E1Q7MUi-0008K3-TL@dinsdale.python.org>
References: <E1Q7MUi-0008K3-TL@dinsdale.python.org>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi==VzJstmOyB67Yrieg=tMoGQ8shw@mail.gmail.com>

The below changes were from Alexander Belopolsky. When I tried to push
my changes, my changes resulted in multiple heads in 2.7, so I had to
go back 2.7 branch, merge 2.7 and then commit and push. This resulted
in both my changes as well as merged changes being pushed. I
understand that the second part should not happen, like merging an
already available change and then pushing it again.

I have a script which kind of traverses all the local directories of
branches and does a hg pull; hg update before I start making changes
and I thought that was enough. How could the push would resulted in
two heads here and why I did have merge ? ( I am unable to traceback
the steps) and if there is anything I should know, or change in the
workflow when doing changes to 2.7, please let me know.

Thanks,
Senthil



---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: senthil.kumaran <python-checkins at python.org>
Date: Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 2:45 PM
Subject: [Python-checkins] cpython (merge 2.7 -> 2.7): hg pull/merge -
Changes to accomodate.
To: python-checkins at python.org


http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/da212fa62fea
changeset: ? 69170:da212fa62fea
branch: ? ? ?2.7
parent: ? ? ?69169:1320f29bcf98
parent: ? ? ?69165:202a9feb1fd6
user: ? ? ? ?Senthil Kumaran <orsenthil at gmail.com>
date: ? ? ? ?Wed Apr 06 14:41:42 2011 +0800
summary:
?hg pull/merge - Changes to accomodate.

files:
?Lib/test/test_datetime.py | ? 7 +++++++
?Modules/datetimemodule.c ?| ?15 ++++++++-------
?2 files changed, 15 insertions(+), 7 deletions(-)


diff --git a/Lib/test/test_datetime.py b/Lib/test/test_datetime.py
--- a/Lib/test/test_datetime.py
+++ b/Lib/test/test_datetime.py
@@ -231,6 +231,13 @@
? ? ? ? eq(a//10, td(0, 7*24*360))
? ? ? ? eq(a//3600000, td(0, 0, 7*24*1000))

+ ? ? ? ?# Issue #11576
+ ? ? ? ?eq(td(999999999, 86399, 999999) - td(999999999, 86399, 999998),
+ ? ? ? ? ? td(0, 0, 1))
+ ? ? ? ?eq(td(999999999, 1, 1) - td(999999999, 1, 0),
+ ? ? ? ? ? td(0, 0, 1))
+
+
? ? def test_disallowed_computations(self):
? ? ? ? a = timedelta(42)

diff --git a/Modules/datetimemodule.c b/Modules/datetimemodule.c
--- a/Modules/datetimemodule.c
+++ b/Modules/datetimemodule.c
@@ -1737,13 +1737,14 @@

? ? if (PyDelta_Check(left) && PyDelta_Check(right)) {
? ? ? ? /* delta - delta */
- ? ? ? ?PyObject *minus_right = PyNumber_Negative(right);
- ? ? ? ?if (minus_right) {
- ? ? ? ? ? ?result = delta_add(left, minus_right);
- ? ? ? ? ? ?Py_DECREF(minus_right);
- ? ? ? ?}
- ? ? ? ?else
- ? ? ? ? ? ?result = NULL;
+ ? ? ? ?/* The C-level additions can't overflow because of the
+ ? ? ? ? * invariant bounds.
+ ? ? ? ? */
+ ? ? ? ?int days = GET_TD_DAYS(left) - GET_TD_DAYS(right);
+ ? ? ? ?int seconds = GET_TD_SECONDS(left) - GET_TD_SECONDS(right);
+ ? ? ? ?int microseconds = GET_TD_MICROSECONDS(left) -
+ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? GET_TD_MICROSECONDS(right);
+ ? ? ? ?result = new_delta(days, seconds, microseconds, 1);
? ? }

? ? if (result == Py_NotImplemented)

--
Repository URL: http://hg.python.org/cpython

_______________________________________________
Python-checkins mailing list
Python-checkins at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-checkins




-- 
Senthil

From solipsis at pitrou.net  Wed Apr  6 16:08:34 2011
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 16:08:34 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Fwd: [Python-checkins] cpython (merge 2.7
 -> 2.7): hg pull/merge - Changes to accomodate.
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi==VzJstmOyB67Yrieg=tMoGQ8shw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E1Q7MUi-0008K3-TL@dinsdale.python.org>
	<BANLkTi==VzJstmOyB67Yrieg=tMoGQ8shw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1302098914.3700.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Le mercredi 06 avril 2011 ? 15:07 +0800, Senthil Kumaran a ?crit :
> The below changes were from Alexander Belopolsky. When I tried to push
> my changes, my changes resulted in multiple heads in 2.7, so I had to
> go back 2.7 branch, merge 2.7 and then commit and push. This resulted
> in both my changes as well as merged changes being pushed.

Well, this is normal. Do understand that history with a DVCS is not
linear. You have based your changes on an earlier revision (for whatever
reason - for example someone pushed a new revision in-between), and so
you had to merge - reconcile - your changes with the latest upstream
changes. This is normal practice.

I guess you have been surprised by the diff in the notification e-mail,
which makes it look like that the datetime changes have been committed
"twice". The diff displays the differences between the merge changeset
and one of its parents (the first one, probably). So, it will reflect
the changes made necessary to one of its two parents in order to
reconcile it with the other; it "appears" (due to the diff) that some
changes have been committed twice, but it's only so if you consider
history linear as in SVN.

I think the representation of merges as a diff against one of the
parents is indeed sub-optimal. OTOH, it's not easy to come up with
something better.

> I have a script which kind of traverses all the local directories of
> branches and does a hg pull; hg update before I start making changes
> and I thought that was enough.

It should be enough, but perhaps other changes were pushed in-between.

Regards

Antoine.



From dirkjan at ochtman.nl  Wed Apr  6 16:12:47 2011
From: dirkjan at ochtman.nl (Dirkjan Ochtman)
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 16:12:47 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Fwd: [Python-checkins] cpython (merge 2.7
 -> 2.7): hg pull/merge - Changes to accomodate.
In-Reply-To: <1302098914.3700.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <E1Q7MUi-0008K3-TL@dinsdale.python.org>
	<BANLkTi==VzJstmOyB67Yrieg=tMoGQ8shw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1302098914.3700.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikEQ6sziAP_Yu1XeeNZz2k6CBqMHA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 16:08, Antoine Pitrou <solipsis at pitrou.net> wrote:
> I think the representation of merges as a diff against one of the
> parents is indeed sub-optimal. OTOH, it's not easy to come up with
> something better.

This might be of interest: https://bitbucket.org/wolever/hg-mergediff/.

Cheers,

Dirkjan

From ezio.melotti at gmail.com  Wed Apr  6 22:45:51 2011
From: ezio.melotti at gmail.com (Ezio Melotti)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 23:45:51 +0300
Subject: [python-committers] Fwd: [Python-checkins] cpython (merge 2.7
 -> 2.7): hg pull/merge - Changes to accomodate.
In-Reply-To: <1302098914.3700.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <E1Q7MUi-0008K3-TL@dinsdale.python.org>	<BANLkTi==VzJstmOyB67Yrieg=tMoGQ8shw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1302098914.3700.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <4D9CD0FF.3050707@gmail.com>

On 06/04/2011 17.08, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Le mercredi 06 avril 2011 ? 15:07 +0800, Senthil Kumaran a ?crit :
>> The below changes were from Alexander Belopolsky. When I tried to push
>> my changes, my changes resulted in multiple heads in 2.7, so I had to
>> go back 2.7 branch, merge 2.7 and then commit and push. This resulted
>> in both my changes as well as merged changes being pushed.
> Well, this is normal. Do understand that history with a DVCS is not
> linear. You have based your changes on an earlier revision (for whatever
> reason - for example someone pushed a new revision in-between), and so
> you had to merge - reconcile - your changes with the latest upstream
> changes. This is normal practice.
>
> I guess you have been surprised by the diff in the notification e-mail,
> which makes it look like that the datetime changes have been committed
> "twice". The diff displays the differences between the merge changeset
> and one of its parents (the first one, probably). So, it will reflect
> the changes made necessary to one of its two parents in order to
> reconcile it with the other; it "appears" (due to the diff) that some
> changes have been committed twice, but it's only so if you consider
> history linear as in SVN.
>
> I think the representation of merges as a diff against one of the
> parents is indeed sub-optimal. OTOH, it's not easy to come up with
> something better.

FWIW I've been trying to tweak the mail hook to show only the chunks 
that are actually changing something on hg.python.org (h.p.o).
In a merge on the same branch (e.g. 2.7 -> 2.7), the diff in the mail 
shows the pulled changes.  So if Senthil commits something, pulls 
Alexander changes and merges, the diff will show Alexander changes.  
That's correct from Senthil repo's point of view.  The problem is that 
the mail hook does the same and shows us Alexander changes again instead 
of making a new diff from h.p.o points of view.

Technically same-branch merges could be ignored, because we already got 
mails for both the parents (i.e. Senthil and Alexander changes).  Who 
makes the merge might change something in the meanwhile though, so we 
want to extract these extra changes from the merge to see and review them.
This turned out to be quite complicated, and I couldn't find any 
approach that works reliably in all the cases.

The easiest solution I found to see only what changed on h.p.o is to use 
a changegroup hook instead of an incoming hook, in order to get all the 
commits at once (when a committer pushes) and make a single diff.
The "whole diff" mail could be sent only when the push includes a 
same-branch merge (in addition or instead the per-commit ones), and have 
the same per-commit mails when there are no same-branch merges.

Another way to find changes is to make crossed checks, but that doesn't 
work too well in complex cases.
This means:

   /-> A -\
-P        M
   \-> S -/

(P=parent, A=Alexander, S=Senthil, M=merge)

Assume that Alexander committed his change in A and Senthil committed 
his change in S, then:
   * the diff from A and M should be equal to the diff from P and S, and
   * the diff from S and M should be equal to the diff from P and A.
If both the diffs are not equal, something else changed.

This is similar to the algorithm used b the MergediffExtension, and can 
be extended to work in this case too:

   /-> A1 -> A2 -> A3 -\
-P                     M
   \-> S1 -> S2 -> S3 -/

but if the case is like this it starts to get complicated:

   /-> A1 -> A2 -> A3 -> A4 -\
-P            \              M1
   \---> S1 --> M0 --> S2 ---/

(i.e. Senthil does some changes (S1), pulls and merges what Alexander 
pushed on h.p.o (A1/A2), does more changes (S2), pulls and merges 
another set of changes pushed by Alexander (A3/A4) -- this might be 
common with long-term feature branches.)

I'm not sure the mergediff extension can handle all this cases and, even 
if it can, we need to adapt it to be used from the mail hook.

Best Regards,
Ezio Melotti

>> I have a script which kind of traverses all the local directories of
>> branches and does a hg pull; hg update before I start making changes
>> and I thought that was enough.
> It should be enough, but perhaps other changes were pushed in-between.
>
> Regards
>
> Antoine.
>


From tjreedy at udel.edu  Thu Apr  7 01:45:33 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 19:45:33 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Fwd: [Python-checkins] cpython (merge 2.7
 -> 2.7): hg pull/merge - Changes to accomodate.
In-Reply-To: <4D9CD0FF.3050707@gmail.com>
References: <E1Q7MUi-0008K3-TL@dinsdale.python.org>
	<BANLkTi==VzJstmOyB67Yrieg=tMoGQ8shw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1302098914.3700.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<4D9CD0FF.3050707@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D9CFB1D.2080309@udel.edu>



On 4/6/2011 4:45 PM, Ezio Melotti wrote:
> On 06/04/2011 17.08, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>> Le mercredi 06 avril 2011 ? 15:07 +0800, Senthil Kumaran a ?crit :
>>> The below changes were from Alexander Belopolsky. When I tried to push
>>> my changes, my changes resulted in multiple heads in 2.7, so I had to
>>> go back 2.7 branch, merge 2.7 and then commit and push. This resulted
>>> in both my changes as well as merged changes being pushed.
>> Well, this is normal. Do understand that history with a DVCS is not
>> linear. You have based your changes on an earlier revision (for whatever
>> reason - for example someone pushed a new revision in-between), and so
>> you had to merge - reconcile - your changes with the latest upstream
>> changes. This is normal practice.
>>
>> I guess you have been surprised by the diff in the notification e-mail,
>> which makes it look like that the datetime changes have been committed
>> "twice". The diff displays the differences between the merge changeset
>> and one of its parents (the first one, probably). So, it will reflect
>> the changes made necessary to one of its two parents in order to
>> reconcile it with the other; it "appears" (due to the diff) that some
>> changes have been committed twice, but it's only so if you consider
>> history linear as in SVN.
>>
>> I think the representation of merges as a diff against one of the
>> parents is indeed sub-optimal. OTOH, it's not easy to come up with
>> something better.
>
> FWIW I've been trying to tweak the mail hook to show only the chunks
> that are actually changing something on hg.python.org (h.p.o).
> In a merge on the same branch (e.g. 2.7 -> 2.7), the diff in the mail
> shows the pulled changes. So if Senthil commits something, pulls
> Alexander changes and merges, the diff will show Alexander changes.
> That's correct from Senthil repo's point of view. The problem is that
> the mail hook does the same and shows us Alexander changes again instead
> of making a new diff from h.p.o points of view.
>
> Technically same-branch merges could be ignored, because we already got
> mails for both the parents (i.e. Senthil and Alexander changes). Who
> makes the merge might change something in the meanwhile though, so we
> want to extract these extra changes from the merge to see and review them.
> This turned out to be quite complicated, and I couldn't find any
> approach that works reliably in all the cases.
>
> The easiest solution I found to see only what changed on h.p.o is to use
> a changegroup hook instead of an incoming hook, in order to get all the
> commits at once (when a committer pushes) and make a single diff.
> The "whole diff" mail could be sent only when the push includes a
> same-branch merge (in addition or instead the per-commit ones), and have
> the same per-commit mails when there are no same-branch merges.
>
> Another way to find changes is to make crossed checks, but that doesn't
> work too well in complex cases.
> This means:
>
> /-> A -\
> -P M
> \-> S -/
>
> (P=parent, A=Alexander, S=Senthil, M=merge)
>
> Assume that Alexander committed his change in A and Senthil committed
> his change in S, then:
> * the diff from A and M should be equal to the diff from P and S, and
> * the diff from S and M should be equal to the diff from P and A.
> If both the diffs are not equal, something else changed.

Like Senthil, I have been puzzled by the duplicate diffs. think it might 
help other hg newcomers if something like the above were in the dev docs.

>
> This is similar to the algorithm used b the MergediffExtension, and can
> be extended to work in this case too:
>
> /-> A1 -> A2 -> A3 -\
> -P M
> \-> S1 -> S2 -> S3 -/
>
> but if the case is like this it starts to get complicated:
>
> /-> A1 -> A2 -> A3 -> A4 -\
> -P \ M1
> \---> S1 --> M0 --> S2 ---/
>
> (i.e. Senthil does some changes (S1), pulls and merges what Alexander
> pushed on h.p.o (A1/A2), does more changes (S2), pulls and merges
> another set of changes pushed by Alexander (A3/A4) -- this might be
> common with long-term feature branches.)
>


Terry


From solipsis at pitrou.net  Thu Apr  7 15:11:09 2011
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 15:11:09 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda
In-Reply-To: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <1302181869.3630.4.camel@localhost.localdomain>


So, nobody seems to disagree and Nadeem's contributor agreement has been
received some time ago. What is needed for this to go forward?

Regards

Antoine.



Le dimanche 03 avril 2011 ? 17:17 +0200, Antoine Pitrou a ?crit :
> Hello,
> 
> I'd like to propose giving committer rights to Nadeem Vawda.
> He has submitted a number of patches since the beginning of the year,
> culminating with a complete rewrite of BZ2File in pure Python allowing
> to add new features (such as the support for arbitrary file-like
> objects) and maintain the code much more easily.
> 
> His name appears on 11 commits in the default branch.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Antoine.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> 



From jnoller at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 15:26:08 2011
From: jnoller at gmail.com (Jesse Noller)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 09:26:08 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda
In-Reply-To: <1302181869.3630.4.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<1302181869.3630.4.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=0yGjQRcLCB_cqsCyqO=Og4WbFag@mail.gmail.com>

I just think we need to put the ssh key on the server. I know Brett can do it.

On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 9:11 AM, Antoine Pitrou <solipsis at pitrou.net> wrote:
>
> So, nobody seems to disagree and Nadeem's contributor agreement has been
> received some time ago. What is needed for this to go forward?
>
> Regards
>
> Antoine.
>
>
>
> Le dimanche 03 avril 2011 ? 17:17 +0200, Antoine Pitrou a ?crit :
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'd like to propose giving committer rights to Nadeem Vawda.
>> He has submitted a number of patches since the beginning of the year,
>> culminating with a complete rewrite of BZ2File in pure Python allowing
>> to add new features (such as the support for arbitrary file-like
>> objects) and maintain the code much more easily.
>>
>> His name appears on 11 commits in the default branch.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Antoine.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> python-committers mailing list
>> python-committers at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>

From brett at python.org  Thu Apr  7 19:27:51 2011
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 10:27:51 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda
In-Reply-To: <1302181869.3630.4.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<1302181869.3630.4.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=_xOfvqJYbe8Xp9hF6zuXrXWF7Zw@mail.gmail.com>

The devguide knows all: http://docs.python.org/devguide/coredev.html

On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 06:11, Antoine Pitrou <solipsis at pitrou.net> wrote:

>
> So, nobody seems to disagree and Nadeem's contributor agreement has been
> received some time ago. What is needed for this to go forward?
>
> Regards
>
> Antoine.
>
>
>
> Le dimanche 03 avril 2011 ? 17:17 +0200, Antoine Pitrou a ?crit :
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'd like to propose giving committer rights to Nadeem Vawda.
> > He has submitted a number of patches since the beginning of the year,
> > culminating with a complete rewrite of BZ2File in pure Python allowing
> > to add new features (such as the support for arbitrary file-like
> > objects) and maintain the code much more easily.
> >
> > His name appears on 11 commits in the default branch.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Antoine.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > python-committers mailing list
> > python-committers at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>
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From solipsis at pitrou.net  Thu Apr  7 22:41:00 2011
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 22:41:00 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=_xOfvqJYbe8Xp9hF6zuXrXWF7Zw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<1302181869.3630.4.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<BANLkTi=_xOfvqJYbe8Xp9hF6zuXrXWF7Zw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1302208860.3532.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Le jeudi 07 avril 2011 ? 10:27 -0700, Brett Cannon a ?crit :
> The devguide knows all: http://docs.python.org/devguide/coredev.html

Hmmm so I assume Nadeem should send his SSH key to pydotorg at python.org?
Or?

Thanks

Antoine.

> 
> On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 06:11, Antoine Pitrou <solipsis at pitrou.net>
> wrote:
>         
>         So, nobody seems to disagree and Nadeem's contributor
>         agreement has been
>         received some time ago. What is needed for this to go forward?
>         
>         Regards
>         
>         Antoine.




From jcea at jcea.es  Fri Apr  8 03:09:22 2011
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2011 03:09:22 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda
In-Reply-To: <1302208860.3532.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>	<1302181869.3630.4.camel@localhost.localdomain>	<BANLkTi=_xOfvqJYbe8Xp9hF6zuXrXWF7Zw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1302208860.3532.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <4D9E6042.20305@jcea.es>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 07/04/11 22:41, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Le jeudi 07 avril 2011 ? 10:27 -0700, Brett Cannon a ?crit :
>> The devguide knows all: http://docs.python.org/devguide/coredev.html
> 
> Hmmm so I assume Nadeem should send his SSH key to pydotorg at python.org?
> Or?

What is preventing me to send a fake SSH key to that acount, from a
gmail address, saying "hi, this is Nadeem. You are waiting for this" ;-).

- -- 
Jesus Cea Avion                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org         _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
.                              _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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From benjamin at python.org  Fri Apr  8 04:25:45 2011
From: benjamin at python.org (Benjamin Peterson)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 21:25:45 -0500
Subject: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda
In-Reply-To: <4D9E6042.20305@jcea.es>
References: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<1302181869.3630.4.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<BANLkTi=_xOfvqJYbe8Xp9hF6zuXrXWF7Zw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1302208860.3532.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<4D9E6042.20305@jcea.es>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikmQu3ab9Uuvj-xYSUBYLFUESRnLg@mail.gmail.com>

2011/4/7 Jesus Cea <jcea at jcea.es>:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 07/04/11 22:41, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>> Le jeudi 07 avril 2011 ? 10:27 -0700, Brett Cannon a ?crit :
>>> The devguide knows all: http://docs.python.org/devguide/coredev.html
>>
>> Hmmm so I assume Nadeem should send his SSH key to pydotorg at python.org?
>> Or?
>
> What is preventing me to send a fake SSH key to that acount, from a
> gmail address, saying "hi, this is Nadeem. You are waiting for this" ;-).

Well, that would be fairly pointless considering you already have
commit privs...



-- 
Regards,
Benjamin

From jcea at jcea.es  Fri Apr  8 04:33:24 2011
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2011 04:33:24 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikmQu3ab9Uuvj-xYSUBYLFUESRnLg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>	<1302181869.3630.4.camel@localhost.localdomain>	<BANLkTi=_xOfvqJYbe8Xp9hF6zuXrXWF7Zw@mail.gmail.com>	<1302208860.3532.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>	<4D9E6042.20305@jcea.es>
	<BANLkTikmQu3ab9Uuvj-xYSUBYLFUESRnLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D9E73F4.2020301@jcea.es>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 08/04/11 04:25, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
>> What is preventing me to send a fake SSH key to that acount, from a
>> gmail address, saying "hi, this is Nadeem. You are waiting for this" ;-).
> 
> Well, that would be fairly pointless considering you already have
> commit privs...

When I -slowly and sneaky- trojanize socket module and, additionally,
add all the buildbots to my spambot network, I will not use my own SSH key.

I promise :).

I should quit IT security and grow vegetables somewhere... :-p

- -- 
Jesus Cea Avion                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org         _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
.                              _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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From brett at python.org  Fri Apr  8 04:36:04 2011
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 19:36:04 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda
In-Reply-To: <1302208860.3532.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<1302181869.3630.4.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<BANLkTi=_xOfvqJYbe8Xp9hF6zuXrXWF7Zw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1302208860.3532.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <BANLkTint_L7=+ChurqLoHOATvi+LYw3H0Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 13:41, Antoine Pitrou <solipsis at pitrou.net> wrote:

> Le jeudi 07 avril 2011 ? 10:27 -0700, Brett Cannon a ?crit :
> > The devguide knows all: http://docs.python.org/devguide/coredev.html
>
> Hmmm so I assume Nadeem should send his SSH key to pydotorg at python.org?
> Or?
>

Nope, he can send them here to python-committers (you scared me the page
actually said pydotorg at python.org).


>
> Thanks
>
> Antoine.
>
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 06:11, Antoine Pitrou <solipsis at pitrou.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >         So, nobody seems to disagree and Nadeem's contributor
> >         agreement has been
> >         received some time ago. What is needed for this to go forward?
> >
> >         Regards
> >
> >         Antoine.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>
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From brett at python.org  Fri Apr  8 04:36:52 2011
From: brett at python.org (Brett Cannon)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 19:36:52 -0700
Subject: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda
In-Reply-To: <4D9E73F4.2020301@jcea.es>
References: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<1302181869.3630.4.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<BANLkTi=_xOfvqJYbe8Xp9hF6zuXrXWF7Zw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1302208860.3532.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<4D9E6042.20305@jcea.es>
	<BANLkTikmQu3ab9Uuvj-xYSUBYLFUESRnLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D9E73F4.2020301@jcea.es>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimpeW0dcA+o=_6uRxbiAbeF-ucwGA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 19:33, Jesus Cea <jcea at jcea.es> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 08/04/11 04:25, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
> >> What is preventing me to send a fake SSH key to that acount, from a
> >> gmail address, saying "hi, this is Nadeem. You are waiting for this"
> ;-).
> >
> > Well, that would be fairly pointless considering you already have
> > commit privs...
>
> When I -slowly and sneaky- trojanize socket module and, additionally,
> add all the buildbots to my spambot network, I will not use my own SSH key.
>
> I promise :).
>
> I should quit IT security and grow vegetables somewhere... :-p
>

As someone who did some security stuff as part of his PhD, I totally agree
with that; get out of security or else it will make you paranoid.

-Brett


>
> - --
> Jesus Cea Avion                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
> jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
> jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org         _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
> .                              _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
> "Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
> "My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
> "El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
>
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> eP42Qoh9vlI=
> =1qnn
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>
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From jcea at jcea.es  Fri Apr  8 04:48:59 2011
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2011 04:48:59 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimpeW0dcA+o=_6uRxbiAbeF-ucwGA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>	<1302181869.3630.4.camel@localhost.localdomain>	<BANLkTi=_xOfvqJYbe8Xp9hF6zuXrXWF7Zw@mail.gmail.com>	<1302208860.3532.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>	<4D9E6042.20305@jcea.es>	<BANLkTikmQu3ab9Uuvj-xYSUBYLFUESRnLg@mail.gmail.com>	<4D9E73F4.2020301@jcea.es>
	<BANLkTimpeW0dcA+o=_6uRxbiAbeF-ucwGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D9E779B.3020204@jcea.es>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 08/04/11 04:36, Brett Cannon wrote:
>> I should quit IT security and grow vegetables somewhere... :-p
>
> As someone who did some security stuff as part of his PhD, I totally
> agree with that; get out of security or else it will make you paranoid.

Too late. Being in the field for the last ~15 years cualifies me as
"please, don't ask me what I do for a living in your party, if you
expect to sleep comfy tonight".

Another side effect is the compulsory need to read everything
tangentially related to security. Where can I find your PhD online? :).

(Congrats for your recent PhD!)

- -- 
Jesus Cea Avion                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org         _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
.                              _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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From jcea at jcea.es  Fri Apr  8 04:51:54 2011
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2011 04:51:54 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda
In-Reply-To: <4D9E779B.3020204@jcea.es>
References: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>	<1302181869.3630.4.camel@localhost.localdomain>	<BANLkTi=_xOfvqJYbe8Xp9hF6zuXrXWF7Zw@mail.gmail.com>	<1302208860.3532.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>	<4D9E6042.20305@jcea.es>	<BANLkTikmQu3ab9Uuvj-xYSUBYLFUESRnLg@mail.gmail.com>	<4D9E73F4.2020301@jcea.es>	<BANLkTimpeW0dcA+o=_6uRxbiAbeF-ucwGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D9E779B.3020204@jcea.es>
Message-ID: <4D9E784A.1070806@jcea.es>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 08/04/11 04:48, Jesus Cea wrote:
> Too late. Being in the field for the last ~15 years cualifies me as
> "please, don't ask me what I do for a living in your party, if you
> expect to sleep comfy tonight".

Do not ask me either why I am awake and using a computer at 04:50 AM
Spanish time. Would be not nice to your blood pressure.

- -- 
Jesus Cea Avion                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org         _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
.                              _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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From ncoghlan at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 14:29:13 2011
From: ncoghlan at gmail.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 22:29:13 +1000
Subject: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimpeW0dcA+o=_6uRxbiAbeF-ucwGA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<1302181869.3630.4.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<BANLkTi=_xOfvqJYbe8Xp9hF6zuXrXWF7Zw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1302208860.3532.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<4D9E6042.20305@jcea.es>
	<BANLkTikmQu3ab9Uuvj-xYSUBYLFUESRnLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4D9E73F4.2020301@jcea.es>
	<BANLkTimpeW0dcA+o=_6uRxbiAbeF-ucwGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=Ju-tfZXPhfM-0tOqC2tAVPX9QoQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 12:36 PM, Brett Cannon <brett at python.org> wrote:
> As someone who did some security stuff as part of his PhD, I totally agree
> with that; get out of security or else it will make you paranoid.

Nah, it just makes you very familiar with the concept of "calculated
assumption of risk". You see the security risks and decide they're
acceptable, given the degree of hassle involved in attempting to close
or avoid them.

But don't *talk* about the risks to people that don't think the same
way, or they'll start to look at you very strangely :)

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan?? |?? ncoghlan at gmail.com?? |?? Brisbane, Australia

From solipsis at pitrou.net  Sat Apr  9 13:20:08 2011
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2011 13:20:08 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTint_L7=+ChurqLoHOATvi+LYw3H0Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<1302181869.3630.4.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<BANLkTi=_xOfvqJYbe8Xp9hF6zuXrXWF7Zw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1302208860.3532.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<BANLkTint_L7=+ChurqLoHOATvi+LYw3H0Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1302348008.3537.0.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Le jeudi 07 avril 2011 ? 19:36 -0700, Brett Cannon a ?crit :
>         
>         Hmmm so I assume Nadeem should send his SSH key to
>         pydotorg at python.org?
>         Or?
> 
> Nope, he can send them here to python-committers (you scared me the
> page actually said pydotorg at python.org).

Can someone (Georg, Brett, Eric?) act on Nadeem's subscription to
python-committers? Otherwise his e-mails get bounced.

Thank you

Antoine.



From eric at trueblade.com  Sat Apr  9 15:52:50 2011
From: eric at trueblade.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2011 09:52:50 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda
In-Reply-To: <1302348008.3537.0.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>	<1302181869.3630.4.camel@localhost.localdomain>	<BANLkTi=_xOfvqJYbe8Xp9hF6zuXrXWF7Zw@mail.gmail.com>	<1302208860.3532.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>	<BANLkTint_L7=+ChurqLoHOATvi+LYw3H0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1302348008.3537.0.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <4DA064B2.9080002@trueblade.com>

On 04/09/2011 07:20 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Le jeudi 07 avril 2011 ? 19:36 -0700, Brett Cannon a ?crit :
>>         
>>         Hmmm so I assume Nadeem should send his SSH key to
>>         pydotorg at python.org?
>>         Or?
>>
>> Nope, he can send them here to python-committers (you scared me the
>> page actually said pydotorg at python.org).
> 
> Can someone (Georg, Brett, Eric?) act on Nadeem's subscription to
> python-committers? Otherwise his e-mails get bounced.

[Not sure if my first response got sent]

I usually wait for a commit message saying he's been added for a
developer (which used to be developers.txt, I think). I haven't seen
that yet. But assuming it's all a work in progress or the process has
changed, I can okay his subscription when I get back to a real computer
later today.

Eric.

From solipsis at pitrou.net  Sat Apr  9 16:09:19 2011
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2011 16:09:19 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda
In-Reply-To: <4DA064B2.9080002@trueblade.com>
References: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<1302181869.3630.4.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<BANLkTi=_xOfvqJYbe8Xp9hF6zuXrXWF7Zw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1302208860.3532.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<BANLkTint_L7=+ChurqLoHOATvi+LYw3H0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1302348008.3537.0.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<4DA064B2.9080002@trueblade.com>
Message-ID: <1302358159.3537.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Le samedi 09 avril 2011 ? 09:52 -0400, Eric Smith a ?crit :
> On 04/09/2011 07:20 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> > Le jeudi 07 avril 2011 ? 19:36 -0700, Brett Cannon a ?crit :
> >>         
> >>         Hmmm so I assume Nadeem should send his SSH key to
> >>         pydotorg at python.org?
> >>         Or?
> >>
> >> Nope, he can send them here to python-committers (you scared me the
> >> page actually said pydotorg at python.org).
> > 
> > Can someone (Georg, Brett, Eric?) act on Nadeem's subscription to
> > python-committers? Otherwise his e-mails get bounced.
> 
> [Not sure if my first response got sent]
> 
> I usually wait for a commit message saying he's been added for a
> developer (which used to be developers.txt, I think).

Well, it's a bit circular: people are added to developers.txt when they
have sent an SSH key. But the key is to be sent to python-committers,
for which subscription depends on being added to developers.txt (and
messages by non-subcribers are rejected).

I'm a bit mystified by the process too. It looks like there's no defined
procedure.

Regards

Antoine.



From g.brandl at gmx.net  Sat Apr  9 20:49:33 2011
From: g.brandl at gmx.net (Georg Brandl)
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2011 20:49:33 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda
In-Reply-To: <1302358159.3537.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<1302181869.3630.4.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<BANLkTi=_xOfvqJYbe8Xp9hF6zuXrXWF7Zw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1302208860.3532.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<BANLkTint_L7=+ChurqLoHOATvi+LYw3H0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1302348008.3537.0.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<4DA064B2.9080002@trueblade.com>
	<1302358159.3537.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <inq9nt$ln1$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 09.04.2011 16:09, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Le samedi 09 avril 2011 ? 09:52 -0400, Eric Smith a ?crit :
>> On 04/09/2011 07:20 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>> > Le jeudi 07 avril 2011 ? 19:36 -0700, Brett Cannon a ?crit :
>> >>         
>> >>         Hmmm so I assume Nadeem should send his SSH key to
>> >>         pydotorg at python.org?
>> >>         Or?
>> >>
>> >> Nope, he can send them here to python-committers (you scared me the
>> >> page actually said pydotorg at python.org).
>> > 
>> > Can someone (Georg, Brett, Eric?) act on Nadeem's subscription to
>> > python-committers? Otherwise his e-mails get bounced.
>> 
>> [Not sure if my first response got sent]
>> 
>> I usually wait for a commit message saying he's been added for a
>> developer (which used to be developers.txt, I think).
> 
> Well, it's a bit circular: people are added to developers.txt when they
> have sent an SSH key. But the key is to be sent to python-committers,
> for which subscription depends on being added to developers.txt (and
> messages by non-subcribers are rejected).
> 
> I'm a bit mystified by the process too. It looks like there's no defined
> procedure.

The procedure isn't clearly defined, yes.  But in the past I've never seen
such a big thread about it.

Proposal:  create a keymanagement at python.org (or maybe just keys at python.org)
alias that forwards to all current key managers (other than myself, these are
Brett, Martin and a few others who haven't used the privilege recently).

Georg


From martin at v.loewis.de  Sat Apr  9 21:05:56 2011
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiB2LiBMw7Z3aXMi?=)
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2011 21:05:56 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda
In-Reply-To: <inq9nt$ln1$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>	<1302181869.3630.4.camel@localhost.localdomain>	<BANLkTi=_xOfvqJYbe8Xp9hF6zuXrXWF7Zw@mail.gmail.com>	<1302208860.3532.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>	<BANLkTint_L7=+ChurqLoHOATvi+LYw3H0Q@mail.gmail.com>	<1302348008.3537.0.camel@localhost.localdomain>	<4DA064B2.9080002@trueblade.com>	<1302358159.3537.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<inq9nt$ln1$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4DA0AE14.2010602@v.loewis.de>

> Proposal:  create a keymanagement at python.org (or maybe just keys at python.org)
> alias that forwards to all current key managers (other than myself, these are
> Brett, Martin and a few others who haven't used the privilege recently).

I had meant to create such a list for the past five years, and never got
around to actually doing it. I think it would be very useful to have
that address, though. Bikesheddingly, consider calling it hgaccounts at ...

Regards,
Martin

From eric at trueblade.com  Sun Apr 10 00:46:15 2011
From: eric at trueblade.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2011 18:46:15 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda
In-Reply-To: <4DA064B2.9080002@trueblade.com>
References: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>	<1302181869.3630.4.camel@localhost.localdomain>	<BANLkTi=_xOfvqJYbe8Xp9hF6zuXrXWF7Zw@mail.gmail.com>	<1302208860.3532.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>	<BANLkTint_L7=+ChurqLoHOATvi+LYw3H0Q@mail.gmail.com>	<1302348008.3537.0.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<4DA064B2.9080002@trueblade.com>
Message-ID: <4DA0E1B7.5030101@trueblade.com>

On 4/9/2011 9:52 AM, Eric Smith wrote:
> On 04/09/2011 07:20 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>> Le jeudi 07 avril 2011 ? 19:36 -0700, Brett Cannon a ?crit :
>>>         
>>>         Hmmm so I assume Nadeem should send his SSH key to
>>>         pydotorg at python.org?
>>>         Or?
>>>
>>> Nope, he can send them here to python-committers (you scared me the
>>> page actually said pydotorg at python.org).
>>
>> Can someone (Georg, Brett, Eric?) act on Nadeem's subscription to
>> python-committers? Otherwise his e-mails get bounced.

I just approved him.

Eric.

From nadeem.vawda at gmail.com  Sun Apr 10 01:07:51 2011
From: nadeem.vawda at gmail.com (Nadeem Vawda)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 01:07:51 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda
In-Reply-To: <4DA0E1B7.5030101@trueblade.com>
References: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<1302181869.3630.4.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<BANLkTi=_xOfvqJYbe8Xp9hF6zuXrXWF7Zw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1302208860.3532.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<BANLkTint_L7=+ChurqLoHOATvi+LYw3H0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1302348008.3537.0.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<4DA064B2.9080002@trueblade.com> <4DA0E1B7.5030101@trueblade.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTik4B_XiB3x5BQXECR6eDYo34YwNOQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Eric. My SSH key is attached.

Regards,
Nadeem
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From g.brandl at gmx.net  Sun Apr 10 08:16:03 2011
From: g.brandl at gmx.net (Georg Brandl)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 08:16:03 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTik4B_XiB3x5BQXECR6eDYo34YwNOQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<1302181869.3630.4.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<BANLkTi=_xOfvqJYbe8Xp9hF6zuXrXWF7Zw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1302208860.3532.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<BANLkTint_L7=+ChurqLoHOATvi+LYw3H0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1302348008.3537.0.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<4DA064B2.9080002@trueblade.com> <4DA0E1B7.5030101@trueblade.com>
	<BANLkTik4B_XiB3x5BQXECR6eDYo34YwNOQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <inrhv3$mdb$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 10.04.2011 01:07, Nadeem Vawda wrote:
> Thanks, Eric. My SSH key is attached.

And should be installed now.

Georg


From g.brandl at gmx.net  Sun Apr 10 09:04:35 2011
From: g.brandl at gmx.net (Georg Brandl)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 09:04:35 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] Committer rights for Nadeem Vawda
In-Reply-To: <4DA0AE14.2010602@v.loewis.de>
References: <1301843863.3512.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>	<1302181869.3630.4.camel@localhost.localdomain>	<BANLkTi=_xOfvqJYbe8Xp9hF6zuXrXWF7Zw@mail.gmail.com>	<1302208860.3532.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>	<BANLkTint_L7=+ChurqLoHOATvi+LYw3H0Q@mail.gmail.com>	<1302348008.3537.0.camel@localhost.localdomain>	<4DA064B2.9080002@trueblade.com>	<1302358159.3537.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<inq9nt$ln1$1@dough.gmane.org> <4DA0AE14.2010602@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <inrkq4$q4$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 09.04.2011 21:05, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
>> Proposal:  create a keymanagement at python.org (or maybe just keys at python.org)
>> alias that forwards to all current key managers (other than myself, these are
>> Brett, Martin and a few others who haven't used the privilege recently).
> 
> I had meant to create such a list for the past five years, and never got
> around to actually doing it. I think it would be very useful to have
> that address, though. Bikesheddingly, consider calling it hgaccounts at ...

OK, this is now created and I've updated the devguide accordingly.

At the moment, the alias forwards to Brett, Antoine and myself.  If anyone
else feels like he'd like to update SSH keys, please tell me.

Georg


From kbk at shore.net  Sun Apr 10 17:04:38 2011
From: kbk at shore.net (Kurt B. Kaiser)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 11:04:38 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] Contributor Agreement - Clemens
Message-ID: <1302447878.28155.1439487257@webmail.messagingengine.com>

We received a contributor agreement from William Edward Stuart Clemens
by postal mail.

I am mailing it to our Secretary.

-- 
KBK


From michael at voidspace.org.uk  Sat Apr 16 17:04:02 2011
From: michael at voidspace.org.uk (Michael Foord)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 16:04:02 +0100
Subject: [python-committers] Python Language Summit at EuroPython: 19th June
Message-ID: <4DA9AFE2.4050802@voidspace.org.uk>

Hello all,

This is an invite to all core-python developers, and developers of 
alternative implementations, to attend the Python Language Summit at 
EuroPython. The summit will be on June 19th and EuroPython this year 
will be held at the beautiful city of Florence in Italy.

     http://ep2011.europython.eu/

If you are not a core-Python developer but would like to attend then 
please email me privately and I will let you know if spaces are 
available. If you are a core developer, or you have received a direct 
invitation, then please respond by private email to let me know if you 
are able to attend. A maybe is fine, you can always change your mind 
later. Attending for only part of the day is fine.

We expect the summit to run from 10am - 4pm with appropriate breaks.

Like previous language summits it is an opportunity to discuss topics 
like, Python 3 adoption, PEPs and changes for Python 3.3, the future of 
Python 2.7, documentation, package index, web site, etc.

If you have topics you'd like to discuss at the language summit please 
let me know.

Volunteers for taking notes at the language summit, for posting to 
Python-dev and the Python Insiders blog after the event, would be much 
appreciated.

All the best,

Michael Foord

N.B. Due to my impending doom (oops, I mean impending fatherhood) I am 
not yet 100% certain I will be able to attend. If I can't I will arrange 
for someone else to chair.

-- 
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/

May you do good and not evil
May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
-- the sqlite blessing http://www.sqlite.org/different.html

From alexander.belopolsky at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 19:46:01 2011
From: alexander.belopolsky at gmail.com (Alexander Belopolsky)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 13:46:01 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] History lost in svn to hg conversion
Message-ID: <BANLkTikurbm4QatznA-E6fPiUpJe1aEoCw@mail.gmail.com>

I am not sure where to report such issues, so I'll post it here.
Please advise if another list is more appropriate.

When I committed Lib/datetime.py to svn, I made sure that it was done
in a way that preserved the history of that file going back to 2002.
However, hg log of this file starts with my commit about a year ago.
Is it possible to re-add the old history?  The history of datetime.py
is very helpful for understanding various design decisions implemented
in that module.  This history is discussed in various issues on the
tracker (see for example, issue2267) and these discussions now have
broken links.

From solipsis at pitrou.net  Mon Apr 25 20:00:37 2011
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 20:00:37 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] History lost in svn to hg conversion
Message-ID: <1303754437.3537.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>


Sorry, reply initially sent off-list.


-------- Message transf?r? --------
De: Antoine Pitrou <solipsis at pitrou.net>
?: Alexander Belopolsky <alexander.belopolsky at gmail.com>
Sujet: Re: [python-committers] History lost in svn to hg conversion
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 19:58:50 +0200

> When I committed Lib/datetime.py to svn, I made sure that it was done
> in a way that preserved the history of that file going back to 2002.

Can you be more precise? How did you do that?

> However, hg log of this file starts with my commit about a year ago.
> Is it possible to re-add the old history?

We cannot "add" any past history in any case.

> The history of datetime.py
> is very helpful for understanding various design decisions implemented
> in that module.

I would advise to document design decisions in source code comments or
in a separate file. Having to dig in VCS logs, or read many tracker
entries, is IMO too tedious.





From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Apr 25 20:29:29 2011
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 14:29:29 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] History lost in svn to hg conversion
In-Reply-To: <1303754437.3537.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1303754437.3537.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <7EBE38A0-094B-4C9C-B91F-B044D2E9CB9B@holdenweb.com>

On Apr 25, 2011, at 2:00 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:

>> The history of datetime.py
>> is very helpful for understanding various design decisions implemented
>> in that module.
> 
> I would advise to document design decisions in source code comments or
> in a separate file. Having to dig in VCS logs, or read many tracker
> entries, is IMO too tedious.
> 


Great advice for the future, Antoine. Now can you help with the Hg issue?

I had understood that *all* history was going to be retained. Did I misremember or was I incorrectly advised?

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden
steve at holdenweb.com



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From solipsis at pitrou.net  Mon Apr 25 20:47:11 2011
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 20:47:11 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] History lost in svn to hg conversion
In-Reply-To: <7EBE38A0-094B-4C9C-B91F-B044D2E9CB9B@holdenweb.com>
References: <1303754437.3537.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<7EBE38A0-094B-4C9C-B91F-B044D2E9CB9B@holdenweb.com>
Message-ID: <1303757231.3537.16.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Le lundi 25 avril 2011 ? 14:29 -0400, Steve Holden a ?crit :
> 
> Great advice for the future, Antoine. Now can you help with the Hg
> issue?

As far as I understand it, this is not so much an hg issue than a
migration issue.

> I had understood that *all* history was going to be retained. Did I
> misremember or was I incorrectly advised?

All mainline history has been kept, as well as "active" feature branches
(feature branches someone asked to be kept) (*). I don't know if
Alexander's changesets are part of that, since he didn't precise where
they were made in the SVN repos (if they were made in the sandbox,
chances are they weren't).

(*) Look at "history management" for more information:
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0385/#history-management


Also, there are some kind of things that are possible in SVN land (for
example, copying some files from one branch/revision, other files from
another one, etc.) which cannot be expressed in hg terms. The migration
would have converted these changesets to a "dumber" form - without
losing the actual contents of the files.

Regards

Antoine.



From martin at v.loewis.de  Mon Apr 25 20:57:02 2011
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiB2LiBMw7Z3aXMi?=)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 20:57:02 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] History lost in svn to hg conversion
In-Reply-To: <1303754437.3537.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1303754437.3537.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <4DB5C3FE.8020809@v.loewis.de>

> Can you be more precise? How did you do that?

See the example that he gave, e.g. r82065. The changes are in
/sandbox/branches/py3k-datetime.

>> However, hg log of this file starts with my commit about a year ago.
>> Is it possible to re-add the old history?
> 
> We cannot "add" any past history in any case.

I propose that the redirector (hg.../lookup) redirects to the subversion
viewer if it can't find a matching hg revision.

Regards,
Martin

From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Apr 25 21:31:44 2011
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 15:31:44 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] History lost in svn to hg conversion
In-Reply-To: <1303757231.3537.16.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1303754437.3537.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<7EBE38A0-094B-4C9C-B91F-B044D2E9CB9B@holdenweb.com>
	<1303757231.3537.16.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <868EFD99-8FA9-40ED-9132-F320DBEA75B8@holdenweb.com>

On Apr 25, 2011, at 2:47 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:

> Le lundi 25 avril 2011 ? 14:29 -0400, Steve Holden a ?crit :
>> 
>> Great advice for the future, Antoine. Now can you help with the Hg
>> issue?
> 
> As far as I understand it, this is not so much an hg issue than a
> migration issue.
> 
>> I had understood that *all* history was going to be retained. Did I
>> misremember or was I incorrectly advised?
> 
> All mainline history has been kept, as well as "active" feature branches
> (feature branches someone asked to be kept) (*). I don't know if
> Alexander's changesets are part of that, since he didn't precise where
> they were made in the SVN repos (if they were made in the sandbox,
> chances are they weren't).
> 
> (*) Look at "history management" for more information:
> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0385/#history-management
> 
> 
> Also, there are some kind of things that are possible in SVN land (for
> example, copying some files from one branch/revision, other files from
> another one, etc.) which cannot be expressed in hg terms. The migration
> would have converted these changesets to a "dumber" form - without
> losing the actual contents of the files.
> 

Thanks for your detailed comments and feedback. I was clearly over-simplifying the situation.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden
steve at holdenweb.com



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From steve at holdenweb.com  Mon Apr 25 21:34:28 2011
From: steve at holdenweb.com (Steve Holden)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 15:34:28 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] History lost in svn to hg conversion
In-Reply-To: <4DB5C3FE.8020809@v.loewis.de>
References: <1303754437.3537.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<4DB5C3FE.8020809@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <3203B0F8-8994-4F6F-898F-9C57F9170B29@holdenweb.com>

On Apr 25, 2011, at 2:57 PM, Martin v. L?wis wrote:

> I propose that the redirector (hg.../lookup) redirects to the subversion
> viewer if it can't find a matching hg revision.


That sounds like an extremely user-friendly solution.

regards
 Steve
-- 
Steve Holden
steve at holdenweb.com



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From tjreedy at udel.edu  Mon Apr 25 21:44:18 2011
From: tjreedy at udel.edu (Terry Reedy)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 15:44:18 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] English 'precise' is only an adjective,
	not a verb.
In-Reply-To: <1303757231.3537.16.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1303754437.3537.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<7EBE38A0-094B-4C9C-B91F-B044D2E9CB9B@holdenweb.com>
	<1303757231.3537.16.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <4DB5CF12.2080104@udel.edu>


> Alexander's changesets are part of that, since he didn't precise where

For the benefit of people who are not native-English speakers and who 
wish to write literate English: The English word 'precise' is only an 
adjective, and not a verb, so the above does not work as an English 
sentence.

This mistake, which I have seen before, has an understandable reason. 
'Precise' is derived (borrowed) from the French "pre'cis" which is at 
least a verb and noun. "Pre'cis" comes from the Latin 'praecisus' and 
'praecidere'. Spanish has the same verb in the form 'precisar'. So 
native Romance speakers have a tendency to over-generalize the usage of 
this restricted English cognate. English speakers learning other 
languages so the same sort of thing. The closest English verbs to 
"pre'cis" are 'abstract', 'summarize', and 'specify'.

Terry





From alexander.belopolsky at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 22:45:39 2011
From: alexander.belopolsky at gmail.com (Alexander Belopolsky)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 16:45:39 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] History lost in svn to hg conversion
In-Reply-To: <4DB5C3FE.8020809@v.loewis.de>
References: <1303754437.3537.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<4DB5C3FE.8020809@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinyMx9_13ptV+SnWudOCKFPDe7QMw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 2:57 PM, "Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:
>> Can you be more precise? How did you do that?
>
> See the example that he gave, e.g. r82065. The changes are in
> /sandbox/branches/py3k-datetime.

Martin mostly answered Antoine's question for me.    You can get more
details by comparing the history of Lib/datetime.py in hg and svn.

The annotated view is completely inaccurate as a result:

$ svn blame -v Lib/datetime.py | awk '{print $2}'| sort | uniq -c
 664 alexander.belopolsky
   2 bcannon
 319 gvanrossum
1123 tim_one

$ hg blame -vu Lib/datetime.py | awk '{print $1,$2}'| sort | uniq -c
2112 Alexander Belopolsky

It looks like this history survived the cvs to svn migration, but was
lost in migration to hg.

From alexander.belopolsky at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 23:00:21 2011
From: alexander.belopolsky at gmail.com (Alexander Belopolsky)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 17:00:21 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] History lost in svn to hg conversion
In-Reply-To: <1303757231.3537.16.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1303754437.3537.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<7EBE38A0-094B-4C9C-B91F-B044D2E9CB9B@holdenweb.com>
	<1303757231.3537.16.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimb186E0C44i=69YL8kM2ix+b54-w@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 2:47 PM, Antoine Pitrou <solipsis at pitrou.net> wrote:
..
> All mainline history has been kept, as well as "active" feature branches
> (feature branches someone asked to be kept) (*). I don't know if
> Alexander's changesets are part of that, since he didn't precise where
> they were made in the SVN repos (if they were made in the sandbox,
> chances are they weren't).
>
> (*) Look at "history management" for more information:
> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0385/#history-management

It is possible that I did not pay enough attention during hg migration
discussions, but I don't remember seeing any call for feature branches
to be preserved.   Did anyone ever post a list of feature branches to
be dropped during hg migration?  How would developers know that they
would need to "opt-in" for their work to be preserved?  Given the
unforgiving nature of hg when it comes to altering history, I don't
think sufficient notice was given when the decision to trim the
history was made.

From rdmurray at bitdance.com  Mon Apr 25 23:43:45 2011
From: rdmurray at bitdance.com (R. David Murray)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 17:43:45 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] History lost in svn to hg conversion
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimb186E0C44i=69YL8kM2ix+b54-w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1303754437.3537.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<7EBE38A0-094B-4C9C-B91F-B044D2E9CB9B@holdenweb.com>
	<1303757231.3537.16.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<BANLkTimb186E0C44i=69YL8kM2ix+b54-w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110425214348.BC31E2505A7@mailhost.webabinitio.net>

On Mon, 25 Apr 2011 17:00:21 -0400, Alexander Belopolsky <alexander.belopolsky at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 2:47 PM, Antoine Pitrou <solipsis at pitrou.net> wrote:
> ..
> > All mainline history has been kept, as well as "active" feature branches
> > (feature branches someone asked to be kept) (*). I don't know if
> > Alexander's changesets are part of that, since he didn't precise where
> > they were made in the SVN repos (if they were made in the sandbox,
> > chances are they weren't).
> >
> > (*) Look at "history management" for more information:
> > http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0385/#history-management
> 
> It is possible that I did not pay enough attention during hg migration
> discussions, but I don't remember seeing any call for feature branches
> to be preserved.   Did anyone ever post a list of feature branches to
> be dropped during hg migration?  How would developers know that they
> would need to "opt-in" for their work to be preserved?  Given the
> unforgiving nature of hg when it comes to altering history, I don't
> think sufficient notice was given when the decision to trim the
> history was made.

I remember a (brief) discussion and at least one call for nominating
branches to preserve (I believe there was more than one call), which
included a list that the poster (Antoine? Djirkan?) was planning to keep
and the kinds of things he was planning to drop.  I think it happened on
python-dev rather than here, though.  (Since I didn't have any branches
at the time I didn't pay much attention to it.)  I'm pretty sure it
was mentioned again just pre-conversion, but I don't think any details
were given at that time.

--
R. David Murray           http://www.bitdance.com

From solipsis at pitrou.net  Mon Apr 25 23:56:47 2011
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 23:56:47 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] History lost in svn to hg conversion
In-Reply-To: <20110425214348.BC31E2505A7@mailhost.webabinitio.net>
References: <1303754437.3537.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<7EBE38A0-094B-4C9C-B91F-B044D2E9CB9B@holdenweb.com>
	<1303757231.3537.16.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<BANLkTimb186E0C44i=69YL8kM2ix+b54-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110425214348.BC31E2505A7@mailhost.webabinitio.net>
Message-ID: <1303768607.3537.22.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Le lundi 25 avril 2011 ? 17:43 -0400, R. David Murray a ?crit :
> On Mon, 25 Apr 2011 17:00:21 -0400, Alexander Belopolsky <alexander.belopolsky at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 2:47 PM, Antoine Pitrou <solipsis at pitrou.net> wrote:
> > ..
> > > All mainline history has been kept, as well as "active" feature branches
> > > (feature branches someone asked to be kept) (*). I don't know if
> > > Alexander's changesets are part of that, since he didn't precise where
> > > they were made in the SVN repos (if they were made in the sandbox,
> > > chances are they weren't).
> > >
> > > (*) Look at "history management" for more information:
> > > http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0385/#history-management
> > 
> > It is possible that I did not pay enough attention during hg migration
> > discussions, but I don't remember seeing any call for feature branches
> > to be preserved.   Did anyone ever post a list of feature branches to
> > be dropped during hg migration?  How would developers know that they
> > would need to "opt-in" for their work to be preserved?  Given the
> > unforgiving nature of hg when it comes to altering history, I don't
> > think sufficient notice was given when the decision to trim the
> > history was made.
> 
> I remember a (brief) discussion and at least one call for nominating
> branches to preserve (I believe there was more than one call), which
> included a list that the poster (Antoine? Djirkan?) was planning to keep
> and the kinds of things he was planning to drop.  I think it happened on
> python-dev rather than here, though.

A quick search found the following message by Dirkjan, but it is likely
earlier messages on the subject had been posted too:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2009-July/090325.html

By the way, the "pymigr" repository where the "all-branches.txt" file is
stored is now only accessible through the ssh:// URLs, as someone
complained that unmangled e-mail addresses of former committers were
given out by the Web UI (in the "author-map" file).

Regardless, since Alexander's previous work was in the sandbox repo (not
the python repo), I don't think it would have been possible to integrate
it during the hg migration.

Regards

Antoine.



From solipsis at pitrou.net  Tue Apr 26 00:06:34 2011
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 00:06:34 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] English 'precise' is only an adjective,
 not a verb.
In-Reply-To: <4DB5CF12.2080104@udel.edu>
References: <1303754437.3537.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<7EBE38A0-094B-4C9C-B91F-B044D2E9CB9B@holdenweb.com>
	<1303757231.3537.16.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<4DB5CF12.2080104@udel.edu>
Message-ID: <1303769194.3537.24.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Le lundi 25 avril 2011 ? 15:44 -0400, Terry Reedy a ?crit :
> > Alexander's changesets are part of that, since he didn't precise where
> 
> For the benefit of people who are not native-English speakers and who 
> wish to write literate English: The English word 'precise' is only an 
> adjective, and not a verb, so the above does not work as an English 
> sentence.
> 
> This mistake, which I have seen before, has an understandable reason. 
> 'Precise' is derived (borrowed) from the French "pre'cis" which is at 
> least a verb and noun. "Pre'cis" comes from the Latin 'praecisus' and 
> 'praecidere'. Spanish has the same verb in the form 'precisar'. So 
> native Romance speakers have a tendency to over-generalize the usage of 
> this restricted English cognate. English speakers learning other 
> languages so the same sort of thing. The closest English verbs to 
> "pre'cis" are 'abstract', 'summarize', and 'specify'.

Thanks. "Specify" would do the trick :)

Regards

Antoine.



From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Apr 26 00:18:04 2011
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 00:18:04 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] History lost in svn to hg conversion
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinyMx9_13ptV+SnWudOCKFPDe7QMw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1303754437.3537.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>	<4DB5C3FE.8020809@v.loewis.de>
	<BANLkTinyMx9_13ptV+SnWudOCKFPDe7QMw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DB5F31C.7030706@v.loewis.de>

> It looks like this history survived the cvs to svn migration, but was
> lost in migration to hg.

It's not there anymore, but it isn't lost, either - you can still get it
from svn if you want to (and should still be able to do so twenty years
from now if you care - just as you can still get the original CVS
repository if you want to).

In any case, this part of the history has not been converted, and there
is no way to fix it now - less so in Mercurial than there might have
been in CVS. Changing the history would require to come up with
completely new revision "numbers", which would be unrelated to the
revision numbers in all the clones out there. So anybody pushing changes
would bring back all these "incorrect" revisions. That's
why people say that changing history is futile in DVCSs one the
genie is out of the bottle.

So just accept that apparently, you wrote datetime.py all on your own :-)

If you wonder what precisely has gone wrong: you shouldn't have created
a branch in /sandbox, but in python/branches. /sandbox shouldn't have
been used for anything whose history is of any interest. The hg
conversion didn't consider anything outside /python, so it couldn't
track the copying of the file.

It might be that the svn-to-hg conversion algorithm could do better
with files that are copied from within the same repository, but from
outside the converted subtree. This is tricky to implement, though,
since you can't give reasonable file path names to such files. OTOH,
our approach to svn (i.e. multiple projects in one repository) is
so uncommon that the Mercurial people are likely to ignore problems
arising out of it.

Regards,
Martin

From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Apr 26 00:20:40 2011
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiB2LiBMw7Z3aXMi?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 00:20:40 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] History lost in svn to hg conversion
In-Reply-To: <1303768607.3537.22.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1303754437.3537.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>	<7EBE38A0-094B-4C9C-B91F-B044D2E9CB9B@holdenweb.com>	<1303757231.3537.16.camel@localhost.localdomain>	<BANLkTimb186E0C44i=69YL8kM2ix+b54-w@mail.gmail.com>	<20110425214348.BC31E2505A7@mailhost.webabinitio.net>
	<1303768607.3537.22.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <4DB5F3B8.9080500@v.loewis.de>

> Regardless, since Alexander's previous work was in the sandbox repo (not
> the python repo), I don't think it would have been possible to integrate
> it during the hg migration.

See the message I just sent - it's *not* a separate repository (else
subversion would not be able to reconstruct the full history). So it
might have been possible to deal with it, had it been noticed.

Regards,
Martin

From alexander.belopolsky at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 00:25:33 2011
From: alexander.belopolsky at gmail.com (Alexander Belopolsky)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 18:25:33 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] History lost in svn to hg conversion
In-Reply-To: <1303768607.3537.22.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1303754437.3537.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<7EBE38A0-094B-4C9C-B91F-B044D2E9CB9B@holdenweb.com>
	<1303757231.3537.16.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<BANLkTimb186E0C44i=69YL8kM2ix+b54-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110425214348.BC31E2505A7@mailhost.webabinitio.net>
	<1303768607.3537.22.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimwtAcDz4LDMQ9ticB2e9cGt2NYHw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 5:56 PM, Antoine Pitrou <solipsis at pitrou.net> wrote:
..
> A quick search found the following message by Dirkjan, but it is likely
> earlier messages on the subject had been posted too:
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2009-July/090325.html
>

No wonder I missed that.  I assume you are referring to this part of a
multi-page post:

"""
* Get agreement on branch strategy and branch processing (list of
branches + proposed handling at
http://hg.python.org/pymigr/file/tip/all-branches.txt) <--- PLEASE
REVIEW
"""

Even now, this does not sound to me like "WARNING: We are going to
drop substantial chunks of history during hg migration.  If you want
to see the history of work you did in your feature branches preserved,
please speak up."

> By the way, the "pymigr" repository where the "all-branches.txt" file is
> stored is now only accessible through the ssh:// URLs, as someone
> complained that unmangled e-mail addresses of former committers were
> given out by the Web UI (in the "author-map" file).
>

How do I access this file now?  I tried

$ hg cat ssh://hg at hg.python.org/pymigr/file/tip/all-branches.txt
ssh:/hg at hg.python.org/pymigr/file/tip/all-branches.txt: No such file
in rev 39047f8bd1d1


> Regardless, since Alexander's previous work was in the sandbox repo (not
> the python repo),

See issue7989 for the details on how Lib/datetime.py was developed.

> I don't think it would have been possible to integrate
> it during the hg migration.

Since I understand that the current plan is to preserve read-only SVN
repository indefinitely, I don't think anything needs to be done other
than making tracker smarter a Martin suggested.  However, if
maintaining an SVN server becomes a burden, maybe the complete SVN
history should be converted to an Hg instance  using some lossless
process.

From martin at v.loewis.de  Tue Apr 26 00:29:25 2011
From: martin at v.loewis.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 00:29:25 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] English 'precise' is only an adjective,
 not a verb.
In-Reply-To: <4DB5CF12.2080104@udel.edu>
References: <1303754437.3537.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>	<7EBE38A0-094B-4C9C-B91F-B044D2E9CB9B@holdenweb.com>	<1303757231.3537.16.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<4DB5CF12.2080104@udel.edu>
Message-ID: <4DB5F5C5.2070004@v.loewis.de>

> For the benefit of people who are not native-English speakers and who
> wish to write literate English: The English word 'precise' is only an
> adjective, and not a verb, so the above does not work as an English
> sentence.
> 
> This mistake, which I have seen before, has an understandable reason.
> 'Precise' is derived (borrowed) from the French "pre'cis" which is at
> least a verb and noun. "Pre'cis" comes from the Latin 'praecisus' and
> 'praecidere'. Spanish has the same verb in the form 'precisar'.

FWIW, we have "pr?zisieren", supposedly imported from the French word
in the 19th century. Too bad the Englishmen failed to accept that import
:-( The best the dictionaries come up with (besides "to specify")
is "to state more precisely", "to render more precisely".

Regards,
Martin

From solipsis at pitrou.net  Tue Apr 26 00:33:37 2011
From: solipsis at pitrou.net (Antoine Pitrou)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 00:33:37 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] History lost in svn to hg conversion
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimwtAcDz4LDMQ9ticB2e9cGt2NYHw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1303754437.3537.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<7EBE38A0-094B-4C9C-B91F-B044D2E9CB9B@holdenweb.com>
	<1303757231.3537.16.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<BANLkTimb186E0C44i=69YL8kM2ix+b54-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110425214348.BC31E2505A7@mailhost.webabinitio.net>
	<1303768607.3537.22.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<BANLkTimwtAcDz4LDMQ9ticB2e9cGt2NYHw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1303770817.3537.27.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Le lundi 25 avril 2011 ? 18:25 -0400, Alexander Belopolsky a ?crit :
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 5:56 PM, Antoine Pitrou <solipsis at pitrou.net> wrote:
> ..
> > A quick search found the following message by Dirkjan, but it is likely
> > earlier messages on the subject had been posted too:
> > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2009-July/090325.html
> >
> 
> No wonder I missed that.  I assume you are referring to this part of a
> multi-page post:

Ok, I've found a later message:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2009-August/090959.html

> How do I access this file now?  I tried
> 
> $ hg cat ssh://hg at hg.python.org/pymigr/file/tip/all-branches.txt
> ssh:/hg at hg.python.org/pymigr/file/tip/all-branches.txt: No such file
> in rev 39047f8bd1d1

Apparently "hg cat" can't work on remote URLs. Just
"hg clone ssh://hg at hg.python.org/pymigr" to get the whole repo (it's
small).

Regards

Antoine.



From alexander.belopolsky at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 00:49:04 2011
From: alexander.belopolsky at gmail.com (Alexander Belopolsky)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 18:49:04 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] History lost in svn to hg conversion
In-Reply-To: <1303770817.3537.27.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1303754437.3537.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<7EBE38A0-094B-4C9C-B91F-B044D2E9CB9B@holdenweb.com>
	<1303757231.3537.16.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<BANLkTimb186E0C44i=69YL8kM2ix+b54-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110425214348.BC31E2505A7@mailhost.webabinitio.net>
	<1303768607.3537.22.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<BANLkTimwtAcDz4LDMQ9ticB2e9cGt2NYHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1303770817.3537.27.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikCNt6fAWQfjptiuMZFDHeE9SYuig@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 6:33 PM, Antoine Pitrou <solipsis at pitrou.net> wrote:
..
> Ok, I've found a later message:
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2009-August/090959.html
>

This post precedes the creation of py3k-datetime branch, so no wonder
that it was not mentioned.  I wonder, though why sandbox was not
mentioned.  Tim Peters' work was in sandbox/datetime and I don't think
it could be preserved without preserving the sandbox.

From alexander.belopolsky at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 01:01:12 2011
From: alexander.belopolsky at gmail.com (Alexander Belopolsky)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 19:01:12 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] English 'precise' is only an adjective,
	not a verb.
In-Reply-To: <4DB5F5C5.2070004@v.loewis.de>
References: <1303754437.3537.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<7EBE38A0-094B-4C9C-B91F-B044D2E9CB9B@holdenweb.com>
	<1303757231.3537.16.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<4DB5CF12.2080104@udel.edu> <4DB5F5C5.2070004@v.loewis.de>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinUx2ZXFjVUHuKMQ+ADuPkzh5X8KQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 6:29 PM, "Martin v. L?wis" <martin at v.loewis.de> wrote:
>> For the benefit of people who are not native-English speakers and who
>> wish to write literate English: The English word 'precise' is only an
>> adjective, and not a verb, so the above does not work as an English
>> sentence.
>>

I find it peculiar that in international forums "literate English" is
not always the most effective form of communication.  I had no problem
understanding what Antoine wrote.  In fact, Russian, just as French
and German, has a verb form of the word "precise".

I still appreciate Terry's and other native speakers' comments on
English usage.  As Edsger Dijkstra once wrote, "Besides a mathematical
inclination, an exceptionally good mastery of one's native tongue is
the most vital asset of a competent programmer."

http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD04xx/EWD498.html

>> This mistake, which I have seen before, has an understandable reason.
>> 'Precise' is derived (borrowed) from the French "pre'cis" which is at
>> least a verb and noun. "Pre'cis" comes from the Latin 'praecisus' and
>> 'praecidere'. Spanish has the same verb in the form 'precisar'.
>
> FWIW, we have "pr?zisieren", supposedly imported from the French word
> in the 19th century. Too bad the Englishmen failed to accept that import
> :-( The best the dictionaries come up with (besides "to specify")
> is "to state more precisely", "to render more precisely".
>
> Regards,
> Martin
> _______________________________________________
> python-committers mailing list
> python-committers at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers
>

From jcea at jcea.es  Tue Apr 26 01:30:14 2011
From: jcea at jcea.es (Jesus Cea)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 01:30:14 +0200
Subject: [python-committers] English 'precise' is only an adjective,
 not a verb.
In-Reply-To: <4DB5CF12.2080104@udel.edu>
References: <1303754437.3537.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>	<7EBE38A0-094B-4C9C-B91F-B044D2E9CB9B@holdenweb.com>	<1303757231.3537.16.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<4DB5CF12.2080104@udel.edu>
Message-ID: <4DB60406.30607@jcea.es>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 25/04/11 21:44, Terry Reedy wrote:
> This mistake, which I have seen before, has an understandable reason.
> 'Precise' is derived (borrowed) from the French "pre'cis" which is at

Thanks for the nice explanation. I find interesting that english, being
so used to interchange verbs, adjetives and nouns, is so picky here :).

For instance, in Spanish we have a translation for "searcher", but not
for "finder". It is a non-word in spanish :). English is usually so
liberal, in comparison... :)

Don't ask me for the plural of "virus" in different lenguajes :-p.

- -- 
Jesus Cea Avion                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea at jcea.es - http://www.jcea.es/     _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
jabber / xmpp:jcea at jabber.org         _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
.                              _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibniz
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From ncoghlan at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 06:01:02 2011
From: ncoghlan at gmail.com (Nick Coghlan)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 14:01:02 +1000
Subject: [python-committers] English 'precise' is only an adjective,
	not a verb.
In-Reply-To: <4DB60406.30607@jcea.es>
References: <1303754437.3537.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<7EBE38A0-094B-4C9C-B91F-B044D2E9CB9B@holdenweb.com>
	<1303757231.3537.16.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<4DB5CF12.2080104@udel.edu> <4DB60406.30607@jcea.es>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinhcsL7rWiXW=-EZ9UWOjwQk6NxkQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Jesus Cea <jcea at jcea.es> wrote:
> Thanks for the nice explanation. I find interesting that english, being
> so used to interchange verbs, adjetives and nouns, is so picky here :).

I have a T-shirt that says "English doesn't borrow from other
languages. English follows other languages down dark alleys, knocks
them down and goes through their pockets for loose grammar." (it's a
paraphrase of an older quote, but I forget the original). When native
English speakers view our language that way, I'm constantly amazed
that non-native speakers manage to figure it out was well as they do
:)

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan?? |?? ncoghlan at gmail.com?? |?? Brisbane, Australia

From amk at amk.ca  Tue Apr 26 14:12:58 2011
From: amk at amk.ca (A.M. Kuchling)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 08:12:58 -0400
Subject: [python-committers] English 'precise' is only an adjective,
 not a verb.
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinhcsL7rWiXW=-EZ9UWOjwQk6NxkQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1303754437.3537.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<7EBE38A0-094B-4C9C-B91F-B044D2E9CB9B@holdenweb.com>
	<1303757231.3537.16.camel@localhost.localdomain>
	<4DB5CF12.2080104@udel.edu> <4DB60406.30607@jcea.es>
	<BANLkTinhcsL7rWiXW=-EZ9UWOjwQk6NxkQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110426121258.GA2576@amk-desktop.matrixgroup.net>

On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 02:01:02PM +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> I have a T-shirt that says "English doesn't borrow from other
> languages. English follows other languages down dark alleys, knocks
> them down and goes through their pockets for loose grammar." (it's a
> paraphrase of an older quote, but I forget the original). When native

The original is from 1990 on Usenet:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Nicoll#.22The_Purity_of_the_English_Language.22

--amk