From bkjones at gmail.com  Mon Sep 12 19:57:53 2011
From: bkjones at gmail.com (Brian K. Jones)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 13:57:53 -0400
Subject: [Python-authors] New Python periodical. Interested?
Message-ID: <9419EF2275E44505A426CE30D3377781@gmail.com>

 Hi all, 

Since the demise of Python Magazine I've been considering what it would take to create a viable periodical devoted to Python. After having worked heavily on other publications (including basically creating Python Magazine in 2007), I'm well-equipped with pretty concrete ideas about where the pain points are and how to proactively fight them. So, in short, there will be another periodical for Python one day. 

The question is more about "when" than "how" in my eyes, and the "when" depends on who might be interested in participating. When I say "participating", I'm talking about authors, but not *just* authors. To get running, there's going to be a need for other skillsets as well: specifically, we need a few developers early on to help create the tools to make creating a quality publication less onerous. While that's happening, we'll need designers to collaborate with on the look/feel fit/finish of the product. In short, think about what you do, and how it might be applied to publishing. Then shoot me an email :-D 

I already own and plan to use 'pythonreader.com' as the domain for the publication. Over the next few weeks, I'll get some kind of spartan web presence going there that'll house a mailing list and eventually host everything else. 

So if you're missing the old Python Magazine, and want to be involved in something with even more awesome (where 'awesome' means, in part, that it exists), let me know! 

brian


-- 
Brian K. Jones
Sent over the internet
My blog: http://www.protocolostomy.com
Follow me: http://twitter.com/bkjones

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From noufal at nibrahim.net.in  Mon Sep 12 20:13:59 2011
From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 23:43:59 +0530
Subject: [Python-authors] New Python periodical. Interested?
In-Reply-To: <9419EF2275E44505A426CE30D3377781@gmail.com> (Brian K. Jones's
	message of "Mon, 12 Sep 2011 13:57:53 -0400")
References: <9419EF2275E44505A426CE30D3377781@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87fwk1eihk.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>

"Brian K. Jones" <bkjones at gmail.com> writes:

[...]

> The question is more about "when" than "how" in my eyes, and the
> "when" depends on who might be interested in participating. When I say
> "participating", I'm talking about authors, but not *just* authors. To
> get running, there's going to be a need for other skillsets as well:
> specifically, we need a few developers early on to help create the
> tools to make creating a quality publication less onerous. While
> that's happening, we'll need designers to collaborate with on the
> look/feel fit/finish of the product. In short, think about what you
> do, and how it might be applied to publishing. Then shoot me an
> email :-D

[...]

I'm not really specialised in any of the the things you mentioned in
your email (except maybe tool development) but I'm willing to pitch in
wherever help is needed. 


-- 
~noufal
http://nibrahim.net.in

I tripped over a hole that was sticking up out of the ground.

From mike at pythonlibrary.org  Mon Sep 12 20:40:13 2011
From: mike at pythonlibrary.org (Mike Driscoll)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 13:40:13 -0500
Subject: [Python-authors] New Python periodical. Interested?
In-Reply-To: <9419EF2275E44505A426CE30D3377781@gmail.com>
References: <9419EF2275E44505A426CE30D3377781@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO4gEAtuz_V2NBjnK7vZUVG5igaPXVt7O83QTksZaM5=NfwGYw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 12:57 PM, Brian K. Jones <bkjones at gmail.com> wrote:

>  Hi all,
>
> Since the demise of Python Magazine I've been considering what it would
> take to create a viable periodical devoted to Python. After having worked
> heavily on other publications (including basically creating Python Magazine
> in 2007), I'm well-equipped with pretty concrete ideas about where the pain
> points are and how to proactively fight them. So, in short, there will be
> another periodical for Python one day.
>
> The question is more about "when" than "how" in my eyes, and the "when"
> depends on who might be interested in participating. When I say
> "participating", I'm talking about authors, but not *just* authors. To get
> running, there's going to be a need for other skillsets as well:
> specifically, we need a few developers early on to help create the tools to
> make creating a quality publication less onerous. While that's happening,
> we'll need designers to collaborate with on the look/feel fit/finish of the
> product. In short, think about what you do, and how it might be applied to
> publishing. Then shoot me an email :-D
>
> I already own and plan to use 'pythonreader.com' as the domain for the
> publication. Over the next few weeks, I'll get some kind of spartan web
> presence going there that'll house a mailing list and eventually host
> everything else.
>
> So if you're missing the old Python Magazine, and want to be involved in
> something with even more awesome (where 'awesome' means, in part, that it
> exists), let me know!
>
> brian
>
>
> --
> Brian K. Jones
> Sent over the internet
> My blog: http://www.protocolostomy.com
> Follow me: http://twitter.com/bkjones
>
>


I wouldn't mind helping with this. I can author or help edit. You might also
want to hit up the guys at PyAr. They put together two issues of their own
magazine a while back: http://revista.python.org.ar/

I might be able to help develop, but it depends on what you're talking
about.

- Mike


-- 
-----------------
Mike Driscoll

Blog:   http://blog.pythonlibrary.org
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From marty at martyalchin.com  Mon Sep 12 21:33:48 2011
From: marty at martyalchin.com (Marty Alchin)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 12:33:48 -0700
Subject: [Python-authors] New Python periodical. Interested?
In-Reply-To: <9419EF2275E44505A426CE30D3377781@gmail.com>
References: <9419EF2275E44505A426CE30D3377781@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMTa0JdwT1g6XhZyRCWPwUby2qwfAdHcX-URNVLWKT3voZ2F5Q@mail.gmail.com>

My first

On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 10:57 AM, Brian K. Jones <bkjones at gmail.com> wrote:
> So if you're missing the old Python Magazine, and want to be involved in
> something with even more awesome (where 'awesome' means, in part, that it
> exists), let me know!

If I'm remembering right, Python Magazine wasn't even the first
attempt, so I have to wonder: what went wrong, and how will yours be
different? I may be interested in authoring and/or editing, but I
personally haven't read any existing Python magazines because I
haven't found the need to. So I'm curious to know if the previous
attempts failed because of specific reasons that you can overcome or
if they were simply victims of a community that's not really
interested in magazines.

I really don't want to rain on anything by asking this, I'm just
genuinely curious why you expect yours to take off when others
haven't. Convince me. :)

-Marty

From bkjones at gmail.com  Tue Sep 13 03:46:27 2011
From: bkjones at gmail.com (Brian K. Jones)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 21:46:27 -0400
Subject: [Python-authors] New Python periodical. Interested?
In-Reply-To: <CAMTa0JdwT1g6XhZyRCWPwUby2qwfAdHcX-URNVLWKT3voZ2F5Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9419EF2275E44505A426CE30D3377781@gmail.com>
	<CAMTa0JdwT1g6XhZyRCWPwUby2qwfAdHcX-URNVLWKT3voZ2F5Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <343562BE4C4C4712A8D6B02258895B7C@gmail.com>




On Monday, September 12, 2011 at 3:33 PM, Marty Alchin wrote:

> My first
> 
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 10:57 AM, Brian K. Jones <bkjones at gmail.com (mailto:bkjones at gmail.com)> wrote:
> > So if you're missing the old Python Magazine, and want to be involved in
> > something with even more awesome (where 'awesome' means, in part, that it
> > exists), let me know!
> 
> If I'm remembering right, Python Magazine wasn't even the first
If I remember right, Python Magazine was the first magazine devoted to Python that was distributed in print and digital formats, on a monthly basis. It was also (again, going on memory) the first one that seemed to have some kind of sane business model (I seem to remember another attempt being a quarterly for 2-3x the cost of a yearly PyMag subscription or something like that). 

> attempt, so I have to wonder: what went wrong, and how will yours be
> different?
There's existence, and then there's success. Python Magazine, far as I ever knew, was successful (it should be noted that I didn't have access to insider dollar figures, but the subscription numbers indicated that we were, at least, "not failing"). It doesn't exist, however, and that is, best I can tell, a completely unrelated issue with which I'm wholly unfamiliar. All I can surmise is that its non-existence was not actually related to its success in terms of subscriber numbers. Hidden in there are a million maybes, questions, and wtf's. More so if you worked directly with the publisher on an ongoing basis in various roles within the organization. Truly baffling. I just can't waste cycles on it at this point. 

"Mine" will be different in that it will exist for as long as it can be maintained as a going business concern. I'm not going to hide the fact that it's a commercial endeavor, but Python Magazine, and php|architect before that, proved to me that you can provide real value to a community and simultaneously run a business that doesn't hemorrhage cash. So, basically, I think it'll be a *success* because I've done this before, *succeeded* before (w/ Python Magazine as well as php|architect), and understand what I'm in for. It'll *exist* as long as I and others can find a way to keep it successful. If I had to build other business arms to prop up Python Magazine, I'd do it if I could make business sense of it, which I'm willing to bet I could do :) 

All of that said, it'll also be different because I'm starting out with zero existing infrastructure, zero existing staff, and zero funding. If you have another business-related word in mind, I'm starting with zero of that, too. It's a blessing and a curse, I think.

> I may be interested in authoring and/or editing, but I
> personally haven't read any existing Python magazines because I
> haven't found the need to.
How many books on Django had you read before writing your own? I mean, I understand that you don't author a book to make money, but the question is still valid. The number of people who bought your book probably represents a rather small subset of the people for which it would've been useful. For any product, there's a community of people who *could* use it, but don't necessarily *need* it, and never actually *buy* it (though some may still use the product through other means). Focusing on this means imminent death, imo.

>  So I'm curious to know if the previous
> attempts failed because of specific reasons that you can overcome or
> if they were simply victims of a community that's not really
> interested in magazines.
Now this is the really good question, and the answer is that previous attempts had fatal flaws either in the business plan itself, or in its execution. There are some other flaws I'm aware of that are *not* directly related to the mechanics of publishing as well.

There are a host of issues that arise in the traditional process involved in creating a magazine, and I'm looking to avoid that by changing how magazines are created. The way magazines work is essentially broken (well, 'legacy' magazines anyway, which is most magazines). I'd like to try fixing it, and I think I (and others!) have some good ideas. 

I never gave any real serious thought to the idea that there might not be an interest in magazines, because nobody is "interested in magazines". Nobody is interested in books either. They're just dead trees after all. People *are* interested in lots of other things, though, that can be well served by magazines. One of those things is Python, and it turns out that quite a number of people are interested in that, and further, they buy printed materials about Python all the time. Daily, even. ;-)

Audiences tend to respond to things that add value in their lives. Period. The job, as I see it, is to make that happen for Python developers. I suspect I'm up to the task, though I should point out that I don't plan on doing it alone in a vacuum.

> 
> I really don't want to rain on anything by asking this, I'm just
> genuinely curious why you expect yours to take off when others
> haven't. Convince me. :)
Well, I tried more to 'relay' than to 'convince', but I hope it was useful anyway. As for 'taking off', I have no such expectation because, in my experience, magazines *don't* 'take off'. I'd like to change what the sales curves look like as well, and I think I can, but it's a little premature yet, and if I were forced down the 'slow and steady' road, I'd be ok as long as we're in the black. 

brian
> 
> -Marty

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From marty at martyalchin.com  Tue Sep 13 19:29:20 2011
From: marty at martyalchin.com (Marty Alchin)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 10:29:20 -0700
Subject: [Python-authors] New Python periodical. Interested?
In-Reply-To: <343562BE4C4C4712A8D6B02258895B7C@gmail.com>
References: <9419EF2275E44505A426CE30D3377781@gmail.com>
	<CAMTa0JdwT1g6XhZyRCWPwUby2qwfAdHcX-URNVLWKT3voZ2F5Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<343562BE4C4C4712A8D6B02258895B7C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMTa0Jc8GDpm6ikQLpDsqwH5YJ_QPi3G4Dyedazrm7=iHZ76-w@mail.gmail.com>

First, thanks for taking the time to answer thoroughly. I realize I
could've come across as antagonistic, so I'm glad you realized I just
wanted some more information. I'm just wary about whether a magazine
can really sustain itself these days, but I'm definitely willing to
help find out.

I'm at least pleased to hear that you don't have expectations for
being successful in a traditional, commercial sense because I think an
attitude like that will help ensure it doesn't fall apart over silly
things. However, that also makes it more of a labor of love, which has
its own pitfalls, as any open source developer will freely admit.

So consider me on board so far, and I'll be interested to see how this
shapes up and where I can be of help.

-Marty

From bkjones at gmail.com  Tue Sep 13 19:37:27 2011
From: bkjones at gmail.com (Brian K. Jones)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2011 13:37:27 -0400
Subject: [Python-authors] New Python periodical. Interested?
In-Reply-To: <CAMTa0Jc8GDpm6ikQLpDsqwH5YJ_QPi3G4Dyedazrm7=iHZ76-w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9419EF2275E44505A426CE30D3377781@gmail.com>
	<CAMTa0JdwT1g6XhZyRCWPwUby2qwfAdHcX-URNVLWKT3voZ2F5Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<343562BE4C4C4712A8D6B02258895B7C@gmail.com>
	<CAMTa0Jc8GDpm6ikQLpDsqwH5YJ_QPi3G4Dyedazrm7=iHZ76-w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A71C337DD9F943ACA300642AE06111A4@gmail.com>



On Tuesday, September 13, 2011 at 1:29 PM, Marty Alchin wrote:

> First, thanks for taking the time to answer thoroughly. I realize I
> could've come across as antagonistic, so I'm glad you realized I just
> wanted some more information. I'm just wary about whether a magazine
> can really sustain itself these days, but I'm definitely willing to
> help find out.
> 
> I'm at least pleased to hear that you don't have expectations for
> being successful in a traditional, commercial sense because I think an
> attitude like that will help ensure it doesn't fall apart over silly
> things. However, that also makes it more of a labor of love, which has
> its own pitfalls, as any open source developer will freely admit.

Well, maybe that deserves a tad bit of clarification: I *do* expect it to be commercially successful, because I *don't* plan for it to follow most of what we think of as 'traditional' in the context of magazines in general. 
> So consider me on board so far, and I'll be interested to see how this
> shapes up and where I can be of help.
Thanks, Marty - I should have the domain set up with a proper mailing list at some point in the next few weeks (hopefully in the next *1* week, but I can't commit to that). I'll shoot emails to everyone so they can explicitly opt-in at that time. 

brian
> 
> -Marty

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