From yang.huang at intel.com Wed Aug 5 04:07:08 2020 From: yang.huang at intel.com (Huang, Yang) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 08:07:08 +0000 Subject: [pypy-dev] Numpy support Message-ID: Hi, all May I know the numpy status for PyPy? Can it be run with PyPy? I git clone the source code from https://bitbucket.org/pypy/numpy.git, but seems it's not been maintained for several years. And what's the difference from the numpy for CPython(https://github.com/numpy/numpy)? Any specific modifications? Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matti.picus at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 04:59:00 2020 From: matti.picus at gmail.com (Matti Picus) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 11:59:00 +0300 Subject: [pypy-dev] Numpy support In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 8/5/20 11:07 AM, Huang, Yang wrote: > > Hi, all > > May I know the numpy status for PyPy? Can it be run with PyPy? > > I git clone the source code from https://bitbucket.org/pypy/numpy.git > , but seems it?s not been > maintained for several years. > > And what?s the difference from the numpy for > CPython(https://github.com/numpy/numpy)? ?Any specific modifications? > > Thanks. > > Don't use that. Use pypy3 -mensurepip pypy3 -pip install numpy If you are on linux64, this will install a binary wheel just as on CPython. If you are on win32, you will need to wait a bit for the binary wheel; it should appear soon. For more information, see https://doc.pypy.org/en/latest/faq.html#what-about-numpy-numpypy-micronumpy Matti From yang.huang at intel.com Wed Aug 5 08:46:05 2020 From: yang.huang at intel.com (Huang, Yang) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 12:46:05 +0000 Subject: [pypy-dev] Numpy support In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Matti Picus > Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 4:59 PM > To: Huang, Yang ; pypy-dev at python.org > Subject: Re: [pypy-dev] Numpy support > > On 8/5/20 11:07 AM, Huang, Yang wrote: > > > > Hi, all > > > > May I know the numpy status for PyPy? Can it be run with PyPy? > > > > I git clone the source code from https://bitbucket.org/pypy/numpy.git > > , but seems it?s not been > > maintained for several years. > > > > And what?s the difference from the numpy for > > CPython(https://github.com/numpy/numpy)? ?Any specific modifications? > > > > Thanks. > > > > > Don't use that. Use > > > pypy3 -mensurepip > > pypy3 -pip install numpy > > > If you are on linux64, this will install a binary wheel just as on CPython. If you are > on win32, you will need to wait a bit for the binary wheel; it should appear soon. > > For more information, see > https://doc.pypy.org/en/latest/faq.html#what-about-numpy-numpypy- > micronumpy > > > Matti https://bitbucket.org/pypy/numpy.git It's numpypy, which is not maintained yet. "pypy3 -mpip install numpy", Does this cmd install the numpy (https://github.com/numpy/numpy) ? Does the same numpy support both Cpython and pypy ? From matti.picus at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 09:36:35 2020 From: matti.picus at gmail.com (Matti Picus) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 16:36:35 +0300 Subject: [pypy-dev] Numpy support In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0ecfc073-cce2-349d-8e8a-9e746c4ab426@gmail.com> On 8/5/20 3:46 PM, Huang, Yang wrote: > >> >> Don't use that. Use >> >> >> pypy3 -mensurepip >> >> pypy3 -pip install numpy >> >> >> If you are on linux64, this will install a binary wheel just as on CPython. If you are >> on win32, you will need to wait a bit for the binary wheel; it should appear soon. >> >> For more information, see >> https://doc.pypy.org/en/latest/faq.html#what-about-numpy-numpypy- >> micronumpy >> >> >> Matti > https://bitbucket.org/pypy/numpy.git It's numpypy, which is not maintained yet. > > "pypy3 -mpip install numpy", > Does this cmd install the numpy (https://github.com/numpy/numpy) ? > Does the same numpy support both Cpython and pypy ? > > Did you read the link I pointed to? If something is not clear with the information there or you have an idea how to make it more prominent then it should be fixed there via filing an issue at https://foss.heptapod.net/pypy/pypy/-/issues Matti From yang.huang at intel.com Wed Aug 5 09:48:10 2020 From: yang.huang at intel.com (Huang, Yang) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 13:48:10 +0000 Subject: [pypy-dev] Numpy support In-Reply-To: <0ecfc073-cce2-349d-8e8a-9e746c4ab426@gmail.com> References: <0ecfc073-cce2-349d-8e8a-9e746c4ab426@gmail.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Matti Picus > Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 9:37 PM > To: Huang, Yang ; pypy-dev at python.org > Subject: Re: [pypy-dev] Numpy support > > > On 8/5/20 3:46 PM, Huang, Yang wrote: > > > >> > >> Don't use that. Use > >> > >> > >> pypy3 -mensurepip > >> > >> pypy3 -pip install numpy > >> > >> > >> If you are on linux64, this will install a binary wheel just as on > >> CPython. If you are on win32, you will need to wait a bit for the binary wheel; > it should appear soon. > >> > >> For more information, see > >> https://doc.pypy.org/en/latest/faq.html#what-about-numpy-numpypy- > >> micronumpy > >> > >> > >> Matti > > https://bitbucket.org/pypy/numpy.git It's numpypy, which is not maintained > yet. > > > > "pypy3 -mpip install numpy", > > Does this cmd install the numpy (https://github.com/numpy/numpy) ? > > Does the same numpy support both Cpython and pypy ? > > > > > Did you read the link I pointed to? > > If something is not clear with the information there or you have an idea how to > make it more prominent then it should be fixed there via filing an issue at > > https://foss.heptapod.net/pypy/pypy/-/issues > > > > Matti Yes, I did. Thank you. But after I install numpy for pypy, there are some errors. Not sure anybody met before: Python 3.6.9 (2ad108f17bdb, Apr 07 2020, 02:59:05) [PyPy 7.3.1 with GCC 7.3.1 20180303 (Red Hat 7.3.1-5)] on linux Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>>> >>>> >>>> import numpy Traceback (most recent call last): File "/home/hy/ai/python/numpy/numpy/core/__init__.py", line 22, in from . import multiarray File "/home/hy/ai/python/numpy/numpy/core/multiarray.py", line 12, in from . import overrides File "/home/hy/ai/python/numpy/numpy/core/overrides.py", line 7, in from numpy.core._multiarray_umath import ( ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'numpy.core._multiarray_umath' During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred: Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in File "/home/hy/ai/python/numpy/numpy/__init__.py", line 145, in from . import core File "/home/hy/ai/python/numpy/numpy/core/__init__.py", line 48, in raise ImportError(msg) ImportError: IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ THIS FOR ADVICE ON HOW TO SOLVE THIS ISSUE! Importing the numpy C-extensions failed. This error can happen for many reasons, often due to issues with your setup or how NumPy was installed. We have compiled some common reasons and troubleshooting tips at: https://numpy.org/devdocs/user/troubleshooting-importerror.html Please note and check the following: * The Python version is: Python3.6 from "/snap/pypy3/57/bin/pypy3" * The NumPy version is: "1.20.0.dev0+e7c1d01" and make sure that they are the versions you expect. Please carefully study the documentation linked above for further help. Original error was: No module named 'numpy.core._multiarray_umath' >>>> >>>> From matti.picus at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 09:57:01 2020 From: matti.picus at gmail.com (Matti Picus) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 16:57:01 +0300 Subject: [pypy-dev] Numpy support In-Reply-To: References: <0ecfc073-cce2-349d-8e8a-9e746c4ab426@gmail.com> Message-ID: <25a89b8c-4a2f-2bb3-5cae-a0d0283197e8@gmail.com> On 8/5/20 4:48 PM, Huang, Yang wrote: > ...after I install numpy for pypy, there are some errors. Not sure > anybody met before: > > Python 3.6.9 (2ad108f17bdb, Apr 07 2020, 02:59:05) > [PyPy 7.3.1 with GCC 7.3.1 20180303 (Red Hat 7.3.1-5)] on linux > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. > >>> import numpy > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "/home/hy/ai/python/numpy/numpy/core/__init__.py", line 22, in > from . import multiarray > File "/home/hy/ai/python/numpy/numpy/core/multiarray.py", line 12, in > from . import overrides > File "/home/hy/ai/python/numpy/numpy/core/overrides.py", line 7, in > from numpy.core._multiarray_umath import ( > ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'numpy.core._multiarray_umath' > > During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred: > > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "", line 1, in > File "/home/hy/ai/python/numpy/numpy/__init__.py", line 145, in > from . import core > File "/home/hy/ai/python/numpy/numpy/core/__init__.py", line 48, in > raise ImportError(msg) > ImportError: > > IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ THIS FOR ADVICE ON HOW TO SOLVE THIS ISSUE! > > Importing the numpy C-extensions failed. This error can happen for > many reasons, often due to issues with your setup or how NumPy was > installed. > > We have compiled some common reasons and troubleshooting tips at: > > https://numpy.org/devdocs/user/troubleshooting-importerror.html > > Please note and check the following: > > * The Python version is: Python3.6 from "/snap/pypy3/57/bin/pypy3" > * The NumPy version is: "1.20.0.dev0+e7c1d01" > > and make sure that they are the versions you expect. > Please carefully study the documentation linked above for further help. > > Original error was: No module named 'numpy.core._multiarray_umath' Thanks for the specific question. This is a problem with the snap install of PyPy and has been reported on the NumPy issue tracker: https://github.com/numpy/numpy/issues/16111 Note you end up trying to use CPython's numpy, which will not work. (from /home/hy/a/python/numpy/numpy) I would advise you use conda since they nicely package many binary wheels: scipy, matplotlib, pandas, numpy and more. https://conda-forge.org/blog/posts/2020-03-10-pypy/ It will not be fast but it should work. Matti From matt at vazor.com Thu Aug 6 16:55:36 2020 From: matt at vazor.com (Matt Billenstein) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 20:55:36 +0000 Subject: [pypy-dev] macos buildbot offline In-Reply-To: <20200707160455.GB4612@t450s> References: <20200707160455.GB4612@t450s> Message-ID: <01010173c58ecb81-f3ca588b-ef2b-4f8e-9c7e-37720ea263f7-000000@us-west-2.amazonses.com> And we're back... m On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 09:04:55AM -0700, Matt Billenstein wrote: > I won't have physical access to this machine until mid-August now, so it > probably won't be available again until then. > > m > -- Matt Billenstein matt at vazor.com http://www.vazor.com/ From matti.picus at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 16:56:55 2020 From: matti.picus at gmail.com (Matti Picus) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 23:56:55 +0300 Subject: [pypy-dev] macos buildbot offline In-Reply-To: <01010173c58ecb81-f3ca588b-ef2b-4f8e-9c7e-37720ea263f7-000000@us-west-2.amazonses.com> References: <20200707160455.GB4612@t450s> <01010173c58ecb81-f3ca588b-ef2b-4f8e-9c7e-37720ea263f7-000000@us-west-2.amazonses.com> Message-ID: <8d1cf939-b0e4-70bf-c76d-da3440da4991@gmail.com> On 8/6/20 11:55 PM, Matt Billenstein via pypy-dev wrote: > And we're back... > > m > > On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 09:04:55AM -0700, Matt Billenstein wrote: >> I won't have physical access to this machine until mid-August now, so it >> probably won't be available again until then. >> >> m >> Thanks! Matti From will.snellen at gmail.com Wed Aug 19 05:35:08 2020 From: will.snellen at gmail.com (Will Snellen) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 11:35:08 +0200 Subject: [pypy-dev] Repository unavailable Message-ID: Sirs, Trying to download various versions of Pypy3, I get the following message: >>>Repository unavailable Bitbucket no longer supports Mercurial repositories.<<< What to do now? Kind regards, Will Snellen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alex.gaynor at gmail.com Wed Aug 19 17:45:29 2020 From: alex.gaynor at gmail.com (Alex Gaynor) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 17:45:29 -0400 Subject: [pypy-dev] Repository unavailable In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The repository is now hosted at https://foss.heptapod.net/pypy/pypy/ Alex On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 5:43 PM Will Snellen wrote: > Sirs, > > Trying to download various versions of Pypy3, I get the following message: > > >>>Repository unavailable > Bitbucket no longer supports Mercurial repositories.<<< > > What to do now? > > Kind regards, > > Will Snellen > _______________________________________________ > pypy-dev mailing list > pypy-dev at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev > -- All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From armin.rigo at gmail.com Wed Aug 19 17:47:00 2020 From: armin.rigo at gmail.com (Armin Rigo) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 23:47:00 +0200 Subject: [pypy-dev] Repository unavailable In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Will, On Wed, 19 Aug 2020 at 23:42, Will Snellen wrote: > Trying to download various versions of Pypy3, I get the following message: > > >>>Repository unavailable > Bitbucket no longer supports Mercurial repositories.<<< The page https://www.pypy.org/download.html contains the updated links. If you're getting this error from some package manager on some OS, you could also inform whoever is maintaining that package that this package needs to be updated. A bient?t, Armin. From figdev at tutanota.com Sun Aug 30 08:46:02 2020 From: figdev at tutanota.com (figdev at tutanota.com) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2020 14:46:02 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [pypy-dev] Building PyPy for FreeBSD, OpenBSD Message-ID: This is more about OpenBSD than FreeBSD (I've talked to maintainers for each) but I'm curious about the requirements for building PyPy (especially 2.7 compatible) from source. For GNU/Linux I just download the binary you provide, but OpenBSD maintainers have to build it themselves. (There was a FreeBSD binary here, 64-bit only, a long time ago.) For FreeBSD, they have having loads of trouble because they have deprecated CPython 2.7, which they use to build PyPy. I bet you can use PyPy to build PyPy, but if you're doing everything from source that's a Catch-22 if you don't have CPython, isn't it? (You would think they would just compile from a previous binary). I realise this email could be a bit confusing, but I assume the PyPy devs have a plan if for example, EOL CPython should disappear from official/trusted sources. == I'm more curious about the future of building PyPy in general (on any platform) and what the PyPy devs intend to do-- mirror CPython? Is there a roadmap? == Please note, my primary attraction to PyPy is its 2.x compatibility. I've read your FAQ and it's nice and reassuring overall-- it's the details that are left out I'm curious about. There are BSD devs (from both FreeBSD and OpenBSD I think) who would love to know more.? I'd love to know whatever you can tell me about this. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ram at rachum.com Sun Aug 30 09:00:25 2020 From: ram at rachum.com (Ram Rachum) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2020 16:00:25 +0300 Subject: [pypy-dev] Changing the PyPy download page In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi everyone, Just a follow-up on this thread: Matti and I overhauled the PyPy download experience. This includes the download button on the main page: https://www.pypy.org/ and the new short-and-to-the-point download page. Thanks, Ram. On Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 16:01 Ram Rachum wrote: > Awesome. Thanks for the support guys. I've put this on my todo list. > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 4:00 PM David Edelsohn wrote: > >> On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 3:36 PM Ram Rachum wrote: >> > >> > Hi everyone! >> > >> > The last week, I've been talking with Matti about ways in which PyPy >> could be friendlier to new users, and what to do about that. One of the >> examples I raised in which PyPy is, in my opinion, giving newbies a hard >> time, is the download page. >> > >> > In my opinion it's way too complicated and not geared for people who >> want to use PyPy but are less knowledgeable, or less interested in putting >> in time to understand the subtleties of JIT vs no-JIT vs STM, etc. >> > >> > We discussed that maybe I should make that change and open a PR for it. >> I said I'm willing to do that, (and learn some Mercurial and Nikita on the >> way) if I know there's general support in this list to that direction of >> change; I expect a code review, but I want to know before I start that this >> change is wanted. >> > >> > Here are a few of the changes I'd like to make: >> > >> > Push the list of binaries to the top. >> > Put Python 3 above Python 2. >> > Move the instructions for building to a separate page. The intersection >> of the set "people who are interested in build instructions" with the set >> "people who have a hard time pressing an additional link to get to the >> build instruction" is very small indeed. >> > I might also put icons of Windows, Mac and Linux near their respective >> binaries. >> > Ideally I would have auto-detection that gives you the binary to your >> OS, but I'm not sure I want to work that hard. >> > >> > You get the general idea: Treating PyPy more like a finished product >> and less like a C library. >> > >> > What do you think? >> >> +1 >> >> - David >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Tobias_Pape at gmx.de Sun Aug 30 09:10:03 2020 From: Tobias_Pape at gmx.de (Tobias Pape) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2020 15:10:03 +0200 Subject: [pypy-dev] Building PyPy for FreeBSD, OpenBSD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <88C8660B-0789-4C6D-85B2-C22F5E363487@gmx.de> Hi > On 30.08.2020, at 14:46, figdev--- via pypy-dev wrote: > > > For FreeBSD, they have having loads of trouble because they have deprecated CPython 2.7, which they use to build PyPy. I bet you can use PyPy to build PyPy, but if you're doing everything from source that's a Catch-22 if you don't have CPython, isn't it? (You would think they would just compile from a previous binary). > > There's a similar situation for homebrew on osx. For that a "bootstrap pypy" is used which is older than the one being installed. So when there's a (maybe) static pypy (for 2.7) which could be pulled to produce the current pypy (2.7 or 3.x) that would work, wouldn't it? Best regards -Tobias From laurie at tratt.net Mon Aug 31 09:30:36 2020 From: laurie at tratt.net (Laurence Tratt) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2020 14:30:36 +0100 Subject: [pypy-dev] Building PyPy for FreeBSD, OpenBSD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20200831133036.2japippofrqyftqq@overdrive.tratt.net> On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 02:46:02PM +0200, figdev--- via pypy-dev wrote: Hello, > This is more about OpenBSD than FreeBSD (I've talked to maintainers for > each) but I'm curious about the requirements for building PyPy (especially > 2.7 compatible) from source. > > For GNU/Linux I just download the binary you provide, but OpenBSD > maintainers have to build it themselves. (There was a FreeBSD binary here, > 64-bit only, a long time ago.) > > For FreeBSD, they have having loads of trouble because they have deprecated > CPython 2.7, which they use to build PyPy. I bet you can use PyPy to build > PyPy, but if you're doing everything from source that's a Catch-22 if you > don't have CPython, isn't it? (You would think they would just compile from > a previous binary). The easiest thing, almost certainly, will be to generate a bootstrap using CPython 2.7 (even though it's deprecated, I would expect it to build without any patches) and host that somewhere -- it'll be easier, in general, than trying to host pypy (n-1) somewhere, as you'll end up with problems when things like shared libraries change, and you'll have to rebootstrap pypy. Laurie