[pypy-dev] pypy on Tim Bray's blog

[Paul deGrandis]

I have stayed quiet thus far but I wanted to make sure everyone knew I
was still around and thought I'd contribute to the discussion now.

I have been asked to give the same PyPy talk three times in the
Philadelphia area, and everytime I give a talk based on some of mwh's
slides, much to the same tune that Chris was singing in his email.

The fact alone that PyPy team members are ABLE to go to different
companies with different interests and pitch the same product is
AMAZING and shows the strength of of the project and product that
everyone has helped form, shape, and create.

Let people say what they want.  Personally, I don't think Tim's blog
was harsh, and anyone who has spent ANY time on the Internet can
clearly see through the comment (and recognize it for what it is).

I wish I knew about the trip sooner, I would have volunteered my
girlfriend's apartment in NYC and helped set you up with some other
appointments.  Please let me know if anyone has a desire to pitch PyPy
to anyone else in industry.  I have some quality contacts.

Paul




On 11/13/07, Christian Tismer <tismer at stackless.com> wrote:
> Martijn Faassen wrote:
> > Laura Creighton wrote:
> >> In a message of Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:53:33 +0100, Martijn Faassen writes:
> > [snip]
> >>>> Tim is very Ruby focused.  He's not interested in python, he said,
> >>>> because 'the ruby community is more vibrant'.  Vibrant is measured
> >>>> in body-count.
> >>> body-count? As in how many people are part of it (I imagine Python would
> >>> do pretty well compared to Python) or how many people die in horrible
> >>> flame wars? :)
> >> I think 'how many people attend Ruby developers conferences' and
> >> 'how many people use rails' but I am not 100% convinced of that.
> >
> > I'm convinced the body count of Python users is probably still quite a
> > bit larger than Ruby users. I also have a strong suspicion far more
> > people are using Python web frameworks than there are people using
> > Rails, hype aside, but I may be wrong about that.
>
> Just to put my 2 cent in here:
>
> I am back to an old idea from the pre-pypy area.
> A small team was trying to create something like a scripting kernel.
> Ruby, Tcl, Python and even Perl, based upon a common set of
> structures and algorithms.
> This was Gordon Mc. Millan, Jean-Claude Wippler, Matt Newman.
> A way too small group with way too large intentions.
> But in the end, having a group like PyPy, extending across
> a set of languages, might be the realization of an old wish.
>
> I think this could work for pypy:
> Not trying to be the one-and-only language right now and comparing
> with other languages. I would rather like to avoid this discussion at
> all and to get PyPy out of such discussions.
>
> If we are going for some ruby support, this will enhance the ability
> and generality of PyPy. This holds for other languages as well.
>
> We have choosen to implement everything using RPython. I do think
> this was a good decision. Besides that, PyPy could avoid to be
> an advocate for any language. There is enough advocacy for this
> and other languages. PyPy is more than one language, and it is
> not a decision. It is a way to improve lots of languages.
>
> PyPy, changing its target as not (yet) trying to be the one and only
> better Python, but to be the first really capable collection of
> building blocks for interpreted languages could be much easier to
> argue for, because that part of PyPy does not have any competitors.
> Reducing that to one language is not a benefit at all.
>
> Making PyPy more general by becoming less Python focused might
> change the focus of many, realizing that there is a new concept
> around, of building interpreters with a Jit, able to tailor its
> outcome to many special applications.
>
> Removing the language constraint seems to be a natural atep
> in this evolution, broadening PyPy's scope, and getting rid of
> silly language discussions. In the end, we can reduce the problem
> by extending to "any interesting language" which can widen PyPy's
> scope substantially.
>
> My 2 cent, maybe becoming more -- chris
> --
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