[pypy-dev] Comments from an observer

[Ben.Young at risk.sungard.com]

Hi Holger,

I understand. I probably came across more pessimistic than I actually am. 
It's just very easy to get excited by a project like this, and see the 
endless possibilities (and not the endless hurdles)!

Cheers,
Ben


hpk at trillke.net (holger krekel) wrote on 07/12/2005 16:28:14:

> Hey Ben, 
> 
> just one additional note: we did say sometimes that we will do
> our best to help someone working on such a tool ... it's not
> too far off and actually quite some work has been spend on
> improving and refining the translation process.  It just needs
> someone with dedication and some time to think and experiment
> a bit, tackling some minor issues and discussing/promoting 
> larger issues. 
> 
> Moreover, the project is evolving in more directions
> than are covered by the EU funding and the EU 
> only partially funds development anyway.  The current
> group cannot follow all interesting paths at the same 
> time - although it sometimes may appear so :) 
> 
> cheers, 
> 
>     holger
> 
> 
> On Wed, Dec 07, 2005 at 10:03 +0000, Ben.Young at risk.sungard.com wrote:
> > 
> > First of all I would like to say that I think PyPy is an amazing 
project 
> > and that you have all done a really great job. Also the comments I 
have on 
> > the project are not aimed at any people in the project, more just at 
the 
> > general direction it appears to be going in.
> > 
> > PyPy is on the edge of something great. A maintainable, powerful, 
> > flexible, fast interpreter is just what the python community needs. 
> > However just when it seems that PyPy can start to have some real 
> > significance in the Python world it seems like these benefits are 
being 
> > delayed for more research work which may take a long time.
> > 
> > For instance a way of writing a rpython module that could be compiled 
to a 
> > Cpython extension or a PyPy extension would allow people to start 
using 
> > PyPy now, and at the same time make faster, powerful extensions for 
> > CPython while maintaining an upgrade path to PyPy. This would bring 
PyPy 
> > to the attention of a lot of people giving more testers/developers.
> > 
> > Also, most people on #pypy seem to ask about using pypy to compile 
their 
> > simple python programs to c. Now, this doesn't seem like a great deal 
of 
> > work away (better error messages etc), but they are (politely) told 
that 
> > this is not what rpython is for. Now if rpython is not for this, why 
did 
> > you write PyPy in it? The same arguments could be applied to most 
programs 
> > (python is easier to read/maintain/write). I really can't see why 
> > something as useful as rpthon should remain an implementation detail, 
and 
> > again, exposing it would bring great exposure and benefits to the 
project.
> > 
> > I don't want to come across like a moaner (and indeed, that's why I 
stop 
> > writing on #pypy as felt I couldn't be enough of a positive voice), 
and 
> > the only reason I'm writing this is because I think so much of the 
project 
> > and think it has so much potential. The last thing I want to see is 
for 
> > PyPy to become a great implemention with many powerful features, but 
then 
> > find that it had missed its time by not being "results driven" enough. 
The 
> > world doesn't need another powerful research/university language, it 
needs 
> > a great production language and with PyPy I think Python could be that 

> > language.
> > 
> > Anyway, enough of my ranting. I'm sorry if I've offended anyone or 
> > completely missed the point. I'll go back to being a hopefull lurker 
> > again!
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Ben
> > _______________________________________________
> > pypy-dev at codespeak.net
> > http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
> > 
>