From hpk at trillke.net Thu Jan 1 17:51:11 2004 From: hpk at trillke.net (holger krekel) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 17:51:11 +0100 Subject: [pypy-dev] Pie-thon benchmark In-Reply-To: <20031231203923.GA12900@sparcs.kaist.ac.kr>; from tinuviel@sparcs.kaist.ac.kr on Thu, Jan 01, 2004 at 05:39:23AM +0900 References: <20031231203923.GA12900@sparcs.kaist.ac.kr> Message-ID: <20040101175111.C24246@prim.han.de> hi Seo, [Seo Sanghyeon Thu, Jan 01, 2004 at 05:39:23AM +0900] > Happy new year, pypy-dev! > > Guido announced Pie-thon benchmark. > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-December/041527.html i wouldn't mind if the benchmark was to be checked into src/goal/piethon or some such. It's probably an interesting goal to get this running on our to-be-translated PyPy :-) cheers, holger From aleaxit at yahoo.com Fri Jan 2 10:42:13 2004 From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 10:42:13 +0100 Subject: [pypy-dev] Pie-thon benchmark In-Reply-To: <20031231203923.GA12900@sparcs.kaist.ac.kr> References: <20031231203923.GA12900@sparcs.kaist.ac.kr> Message-ID: <200401021042.13503.aleaxit@yahoo.com> On Wednesday 31 December 2003 09:39 pm, Seo Sanghyeon wrote: > Happy new year, pypy-dev! And a happy new year to you! I think it's quite important at this stage to have pypy run as much benchmark and testing CPython code as feasible (I spent the Amsterdam sprint mostly working on that, mostly pair programming with Pat Maupin, and Laura and Jacob also worked a lot on adding and fixing built-ins -- as a result we now have versions of pystone and of the CPython unit tests for built-in types and functions running under pypy, though quite a bit of the unit tests has had to be commented out to get there -- plenty of things we can't fix, or can't fix yet / right now, or, like complex numbers, don't really want to spend lots and lots of energy at this stage). So, I heartily approve of your work on pie-thon! > For PyPy, I used `time python py.py -S b?.py'. To make relative > import work I prepended `PYTHONPATH=.' for b4.py and b6.py. > > b0.py: error __new__() takes exactly 4 arguments (1 given) Hmmm -- guess we gotta work on making some of __new__'s args optional! > b1.py: error maximum recursion depth exceeded (No hypothesis here). > b2.py: real 1m25.725s (250x slow) Wow -- more commonly the speed ratio is observed to be in the thousands (e.g. the fastest laptop at the sprint got 3 pystones/sec in pypy, vs I believe 50,000 pystones/sec in CPython 2.3.3). > b3.py: error __new__ multimethod got a non-wrapped argument Ouch -- this is sure to be a serious coding error somewhere in pypy. > b4.py: error (this one imports and uses b0.py) > b5.py: error global name complex is not defined Right, we haven't worked on complex... there's some code for complex but no work has been spent making it work as a builtin type, AFAIK. > b6.py: error unbound method must be called with > instance as first argument > > More comments on b6.py: it took 22 minutes(!) to crash. It printed > 42, 1000041, 999999, 49999950000, and finally crashed at > `d = dict.fromkeys(xrange(1000000))'. Ah, yes, this is a known issue -- we can't yet expose classmethods from built-in types. We do have classmethods, for user-coded types, we just haven't yet gotten around to installing fromkeys as a classmethod into builtin type dict -- so it looks like a normal method instead. Alex From pmaupin at speakeasy.net Sun Jan 4 13:42:40 2004 From: pmaupin at speakeasy.net (Patrick Maupin) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2004 12:42:40 +0000 Subject: [pypy-dev] Pie-thon benchmark Message-ID: A happy new year to all involved! I will be flying back to Texas tomorrow, and hopefully caught up on work enough to try to start contributing a little again by next weekend. Debugging these sorts of benchmarks is a task which, as Alex mentioned, he and I actually made some headway on, so this has given me a (possibly quite false) sense of confidence about my understanding of a few sections of the PyPy code. I'll check back later in the week to figure out what I should consider working on, but I think there are plenty of little bugs and code cleanup tasks available for my amusement. In addition to those tasks, I have been thinking about the dict object implementation. If no one else is working on this, I might have a go at creating one which is somewhat more efficient. Pat > -----Original Message----- > From: Alex Martelli [mailto:aleaxit at yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, January 2, 2004 09:42 AM > To: 'Seo Sanghyeon', pypy-dev at codespeak.net > Subject: Re: [pypy-dev] Pie-thon benchmark > > On Wednesday 31 December 2003 09:39 pm, Seo Sanghyeon wrote: > > Happy new year, pypy-dev! > > And a happy new year to you! > > I think it's quite important at this stage to have pypy run as much benchmark > and testing CPython code as feasible (I spent the Amsterdam sprint mostly > working on that, mostly pair programming with Pat Maupin, and Laura and > Jacob also worked a lot on adding and fixing built-ins -- as a result we now > have versions of pystone and of the CPython unit tests for built-in types and > functions running under pypy, though quite a bit of the unit tests has had to > be commented out to get there -- plenty of things we can't fix, or can't fix > yet / right now, or, like complex numbers, don't really want to spend lots > and lots of energy at this stage). So, I heartily approve of your work on > pie-thon! > > > For PyPy, I used `time python py.py -S b?.py'. To make relative > > import work I prepended `PYTHONPATH=.' for b4.py and b6.py. > > > > b0.py: error __new__() takes exactly 4 arguments (1 given) > > Hmmm -- guess we gotta work on making some of __new__'s args > optional! > > > b1.py: error maximum recursion depth exceeded > > (No hypothesis here). > > > b2.py: real 1m25.725s (250x slow) > > Wow -- more commonly the speed ratio is observed to be in the > thousands (e.g. the fastest laptop at the sprint got 3 pystones/sec > in pypy, vs I believe 50,000 pystones/sec in CPython 2.3.3). > > > b3.py: error __new__ multimethod got a non-wrapped argument > > Ouch -- this is sure to be a serious coding error somewhere in pypy. > > > b4.py: error (this one imports and uses b0.py) > > b5.py: error global name complex is not defined > > Right, we haven't worked on complex... there's some code for complex > but no work has been spent making it work as a builtin type, AFAIK. > > > b6.py: error unbound method must be called with > > instance as first argument > > > > More comments on b6.py: it took 22 minutes(!) to crash. It printed > > 42, 1000041, 999999, 49999950000, and finally crashed at > > `d = dict.fromkeys(xrange(1000000))'. > > Ah, yes, this is a known issue -- we can't yet expose classmethods > from built-in types. We do have classmethods, for user-coded types, > we just haven't yet gotten around to installing fromkeys as a classmethod > into builtin type dict -- so it looks like a normal method instead. > > > Alex > > _______________________________________________ > pypy-dev at codespeak.net > http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev > From tismer at stackless.com Mon Jan 5 19:31:07 2004 From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 19:31:07 +0100 Subject: [pypy-dev] WhatOS Message-ID: <3FF9AD6B.7020509@stackless.com> Hi friends, first of all, a happy new year! Then, Giorgio pointed me to a website today. It makes a really gorgeous claim: """ WhatOS is a free open source embedded system development solution. It provides a complete set of tools for creating high-quality, reliable embedded systems. These include: a real-time operating system (RTOS) generator, a simulator for testing and debugging generated systems, and tools for interacting with systems remotely after they have been embedded. """ So I thought I should roll this through this list. No idea if this makes sense, so far. http://www.sticlete.com/whatos/ Many thanks to Giorgio Giacomazzi for this pointer! ciao - chris -- Christian Tismer :^) Mission Impossible 5oftware : Have a break! Take a ride on Python's Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a : *Starship* http://starship.python.net/ 14109 Berlin : PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/ work +49 30 89 09 53 34 home +49 30 802 86 56 mobile +49 173 24 18 776 PGP 0x57F3BF04 9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619 305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04 whom do you want to sponsor today? http://www.stackless.com/ From hpk at trillke.net Tue Jan 6 11:31:46 2004 From: hpk at trillke.net (holger krekel) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 11:31:46 +0100 Subject: [pypy-dev] next sprint in the snow with the plone? Message-ID: <20040106113146.X24246@prim.han.de> hello pypystas, recently i talked to the Plone developers regarding a PyPy sprint on the same location and time as their next "snow sprint". See *their* nice sprint page here: http://plone.org/events/sprints/snow-sprint/FrontPage It takes place from 7th till 14th of February 2004 in some austrian mountain and you can possibly also do various snow sports . Of course i realize that this is rather early for us as we just finished our Amsterdam sprint but nevertheless i think it's a good opportunity. As Plone attracts quite some people (they have more than 40 people assigned to the sprint!) it would be a great opportunity and possibly the largest european python sprint event so far (until the ones at EuroPython, i guess :-). So i ask everyone to check if he/she could possibly make it. This doesn't need to be a definitive yes, yet, just a hint that you think it's probably possible or not. You can reply to this posting or sent private mail as you wish. I will get more details and confirmation soon (thanks to Jodok Batlogg and Alexander Limi, already). Prices are expected to be reasonable although it is high snow season. If we gather enough critical mass then we could still reach the goal of releasing some PyPy within the first year of development, hehe. Armin Rigo already appears to be able to come which considerably increases chances to make it :-) Ah, and btw, our EU project coordinator, Alastair Burt, just sent notice that our EU proposal got 26.5 out of 30 points which sounds promising but of course we don't know if they employ some logarithmic scale or so :-) (/me crosses his fingers, knocks on wood and all that). cheers, holger From arigo at tunes.org Tue Jan 6 11:30:25 2004 From: arigo at tunes.org (Armin Rigo) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 10:30:25 +0000 Subject: [pypy-dev] Andy Robinson wants to pen in a day for the ACCU Python-UK conference In-Reply-To: <200312191034.hBJAYlTc008948@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <200312191034.hBJAYlTc008948@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <20040106103025.GA7055@vicky.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Hello Andy, hi pypy-dev fellows, and happy new years to you all! On Fri, Dec 19, 2003 at 11:34:47AM +0100, Laura Creighton wrote: > We're trying to have a day on all the 'new implementations > of python' at ACCU - Jython, .NET, PyPy, Psyco, Stackless > etc. It occurs to me the relevant people are probably > with you now. I'd LOVE to wrap it up with an overview > talk on how they will all converge one day, if that's still > the plan. Yes, it is what we hope to reach! I would propose that the PyPy group should give two talk if you are interested in such an overview talk -- the other talk, assuming you are also interested in this aspect, should be more specifically on PyPy, what we've done so far, its architecture, etc. I could give a talk more specifically to Psyco, relating it to PyPy as well. > if they want a sprint in Oxford that week? I can look > into sprint facilities in January if it helps... We're thinking about a February sprint at the moment, but I guess we also need to make up our minds soon and answer your April proposal. Comments, pypy-dev'ers? A bient?t, Armin. From mwh at python.net Tue Jan 6 13:56:20 2004 From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 12:56:20 +0000 Subject: [pypy-dev] Re: next sprint in the snow with the plone? References: <20040106113146.X24246@prim.han.de> Message-ID: <2mllol2q2z.fsf@starship.python.net> holger krekel writes: > hello pypystas, > > recently i talked to the Plone developers regarding a PyPy sprint > on the same location and time as their next "snow sprint". See *their* > nice sprint page here: > > http://plone.org/events/sprints/snow-sprint/FrontPage > > It takes place from 7th till 14th of February 2004 in some austrian > mountain and you can possibly also do various snow sports . Oh hell, it's term time, at least fairly expensive, and I'm already going skiing in the last week of january... > Ah, and btw, our EU project coordinator, Alastair Burt, just sent notice > that our EU proposal got 26.5 out of 30 points which sounds promising but > of course we don't know if they employ some logarithmic scale or so :-) > (/me crosses his fingers, knocks on wood and all that). Indeed! Cheers, mwh -- 6. The code definitely is not portable - it will produce incorrect results if run from the surface of Mars. -- James Bonfield, http://www.ioccc.org/2000/rince.hint From mwh at python.net Tue Jan 6 13:57:18 2004 From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 12:57:18 +0000 Subject: [pypy-dev] Re: Andy Robinson wants to pen in a day for the ACCU Python-UK conference References: <200312191034.hBJAYlTc008948@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20040106103025.GA7055@vicky.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Message-ID: <2mhdz92q1d.fsf@starship.python.net> Armin Rigo writes: > Hello Andy, hi pypy-dev fellows, and happy new years to you all! > > On Fri, Dec 19, 2003 at 11:34:47AM +0100, Laura Creighton wrote: >> We're trying to have a day on all the 'new implementations >> of python' at ACCU - Jython, .NET, PyPy, Psyco, Stackless >> etc. It occurs to me the relevant people are probably >> with you now. I'd LOVE to wrap it up with an overview >> talk on how they will all converge one day, if that's still >> the plan. > > Yes, it is what we hope to reach! I would propose that the PyPy group should > give two talk if you are interested in such an overview talk -- the other > talk, assuming you are also interested in this aspect, should be more > specifically on PyPy, what we've done so far, its architecture, etc. > > I could give a talk more specifically to Psyco, relating it to PyPy as well. > >> if they want a sprint in Oxford that week? I can look >> into sprint facilities in January if it helps... > > We're thinking about a February sprint at the moment, but I guess we also need > to make up our minds soon and answer your April proposal. Comments, > pypy-dev'ers? Well, I really ought to be able to make it to Oxford pretty easily... Cheers, mwh -- ARTHUR: Yes. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard". -- The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, Episode 1 From aleaxit at yahoo.com Tue Jan 6 18:08:29 2004 From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 18:08:29 +0100 Subject: [pypy-dev] next sprint in the snow with the plone? In-Reply-To: <20040106113146.X24246@prim.han.de> References: <20040106113146.X24246@prim.han.de> Message-ID: On Jan 6, 2004, at 11:31 AM, holger krekel wrote: ... > It takes place from 7th till 14th of February 2004 in some austrian ... > So i ask everyone to check if he/she could possibly make it. This > doesn't Nope, sorry. I do hope we can get something going around PythonUK/ACCU, as I'm most likely going to be in the UK for that and likely so is Anna, but early Feb's no good for me:-(. > Ah, and btw, our EU project coordinator, Alastair Burt, just sent > notice > that our EU proposal got 26.5 out of 30 points which sounds promising > but > of course we don't know if they employ some logarithmic scale or so :-) No, I studied the PDF doc and it's really very simple: a sum of scores on scales of 0 to 5 in 6 categories, with a per-category threshold that would presumably rule out a project that's otherwise generally good but hopeless in one category. Out of a maximum of 30, we "lost" a total of 3.5 points: 0.5 on potential impact, 1 on not being totally state of the art, and 2 more on "mobilization of resources" which seems to be euro-speak for "are the estimated costs sensible" (we scraped by, barely meeting the threshold in that category, but the 2+ millions EUR we asked for , if I read the comments correctly, seemed somewhat-inflated costs to whoever judged those things, with specific mention of excessive costs for several identified sub-projects -- that was the only category where the short comment sounded negative to me, while all other comments sounded very positive, including those on the two categories where we lost the other 1.5 points). Alex From hpk at trillke.net Tue Jan 6 18:26:36 2004 From: hpk at trillke.net (holger krekel) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 18:26:36 +0100 Subject: [pypy-dev] next sprint in the snow with the plone? In-Reply-To: ; from aleaxit@yahoo.com on Tue, Jan 06, 2004 at 06:08:29PM +0100 References: <20040106113146.X24246@prim.han.de> Message-ID: <20040106182635.E24246@prim.han.de> Hi Alex, [Alex Martelli Tue, Jan 06, 2004 at 06:08:29PM +0100] > > On Jan 6, 2004, at 11:31 AM, holger krekel wrote: > ... > > It takes place from 7th till 14th of February 2004 in some austrian > ... > > So i ask everyone to check if he/she could possibly make it. This > > doesn't > > Nope, sorry. I do hope we can get something going around > PythonUK/ACCU, as I'm most likely going to be in the UK for that and > likely so is Anna, but early Feb's no good for me:-(. Python UK/ACCU is sometime april, right? > > Ah, and btw, our EU project coordinator, Alastair Burt, just sent > > notice > > that our EU proposal got 26.5 out of 30 points which sounds promising > > but > > of course we don't know if they employ some logarithmic scale or so :-) > > No, I studied the PDF doc and it's really very simple: a sum of scores > on scales of 0 to 5 in 6 categories, with a per-category threshold that > would presumably rule out a project that's otherwise generally good but > hopeless in one category. Out of a maximum of 30, we "lost" a total of > 3.5 points: ... yes, that's right. Nevertheless, my concern was more how close 26.5 is to 30 because it's possible that there are "too many" projects with points higher than 26.5 ... maybe i didn't use the right mathematical terms or so :-) cheers, holger From aleaxit at yahoo.com Tue Jan 6 18:47:22 2004 From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 18:47:22 +0100 Subject: [pypy-dev] next sprint in the snow with the plone? In-Reply-To: <20040106182635.E24246@prim.han.de> References: <20040106113146.X24246@prim.han.de> <20040106182635.E24246@prim.han.de> Message-ID: <200401061847.22594.aleaxit@yahoo.com> On Tuesday 06 January 2004 06:26 pm, holger krekel wrote: ... > > Nope, sorry. I do hope we can get something going around > > PythonUK/ACCU, as I'm most likely going to be in the UK for that and > > likely so is Anna, but early Feb's no good for me:-(. > > Python UK/ACCU is sometime april, right? Yep, Wednesday 14 April to Saturday 17 April 2004. I understand that's far too long to wait between one sprint and the next, and wasn't meaning to imply there should be no sprint until then, although in retrospect I see my words may have sounded like that!-) > yes, that's right. Nevertheless, my concern was more how close 26.5 is > to 30 because it's possible that there are "too many" projects with > points higher than 26.5 ... maybe i didn't use the right mathematical > terms or so :-) Ah, yes, of course -- it's an issue of statistics rather than maths. Even if we had 29.5 out of 30, it would be no use if there were funds enough for just (say) 100 projects, and 101 other projects had a full 30/30!-) And of course we have no way to know about it until we're told... Alex From hpk at trillke.net Wed Jan 7 11:58:19 2004 From: hpk at trillke.net (holger krekel) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 11:58:19 +0100 Subject: [pypy-dev] next sprint in the snow with the plone? In-Reply-To: <200401061847.22594.aleaxit@yahoo.com>; from aleaxit@yahoo.com on Tue, Jan 06, 2004 at 06:47:22PM +0100 References: <20040106113146.X24246@prim.han.de> <20040106182635.E24246@prim.han.de> <200401061847.22594.aleaxit@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040107115819.F24246@prim.han.de> [Alex Martelli Tue, Jan 06, 2004 at 06:47:22PM +0100] > On Tuesday 06 January 2004 06:26 pm, holger krekel wrote: > ... > > > Nope, sorry. I do hope we can get something going around > > > PythonUK/ACCU, as I'm most likely going to be in the UK for that and > > > likely so is Anna, but early Feb's no good for me:-(. > > > > Python UK/ACCU is sometime april, right? > > Yep, Wednesday 14 April to Saturday 17 April 2004. I understand that's > far too long to wait between one sprint and the next, and wasn't meaning > to imply there should be no sprint until then, although in retrospect I see > my words may have sounded like that!-) well, so far i received information from 5 people (Richard, Armin and me could probably come, you and Michael not IIUC). This is obviously not a good enough base for doing the sprint. I guess i'll wait until the weekend and see if more people like the idea of the "Snow Sprint" and then report back. (So, effectively, Armin is not completly released from looking for a switzerland opportunity :-) cheers, holger From nc-jantzegu at netcologne.de Wed Jan 7 23:20:03 2004 From: nc-jantzegu at netcologne.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?G=FCnter_Jantzen?=) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 23:20:03 +0100 Subject: [pypy-dev] next sprint in the snow with the plone? References: <20040106113146.X24246@prim.han.de> Message-ID: <003801c3d56c$66aace00$4cc308c2@Lieschen2> > hello pypystas, > > recently i talked to the Plone developers regarding a PyPy sprint > on the same location and time as their next "snow sprint". See *their* > nice sprint page here: > > http://plone.org/events/sprints/snow-sprint/FrontPage > > It takes place from 7th till 14th of February 2004 in some austrian ... Hello Holger and PyPy, at first a happy rest of the year! Personally I will not take part at the next sprint. However, if possible I will take some free days during that time and try to contribute somehow ... (cheerleading with bad jokes or something like this ...) G?nter From tismer at stackless.com Wed Jan 7 23:47:48 2004 From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 23:47:48 +0100 Subject: [pypy-dev] next sprint in the snow with the plone? In-Reply-To: <20040106182635.E24246@prim.han.de> References: <20040106113146.X24246@prim.han.de> <20040106182635.E24246@prim.han.de> Message-ID: <3FFC8C94.9000608@stackless.com> holger krekel wrote: ... > yes, that's right. Nevertheless, my concern was more how close 26.5 is > to 30 because it's possible that there are "too many" projects with > points higher than 26.5 ... maybe i didn't use the right mathematical > terms or so :-) Yup. Logarithmic scale would only count if this were an absolute measure. Since it appears to be relative, logs or anything else don't count, just the number of competitors above our score counts. I forwarded the results to Mark Achtman from MPIIB, who seems to have some experience with EU funding, and his reaction was *very* positive, "a real good chance". So I'll repeat this here, "a real good chance" and hope for the best. ciao - chris p.s.: The analysis of that evaluation doesn't suggest that we had too experienced reviewers. That state of the art argument is rather vague and misplaced, since we are going beyond state of the art in certain areas. Maybe not in the research field, but my guess is the reviewer just *did not understand* it. This is supported by the fact that the complaint about the costs of WP 4, 5, 6 & 7 is hard to follow. There is no reason not also to include WP 8. These things, alltogether, are in fact costly, and _might_ be a little over-estimated, with some fluff inside for negotiation. Anyway, what I wanted to express is that the analysis looked a bit arbitrary, partially, like "we need to find some bad spots!". And if this is true, then this is true for other projects as well, and we don't need to expect all too many competitors above our score. :-) -- Christian Tismer :^) Mission Impossible 5oftware : Have a break! Take a ride on Python's Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a : *Starship* http://starship.python.net/ 14109 Berlin : PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/ work +49 30 89 09 53 34 home +49 30 802 86 56 mobile +49 173 24 18 776 PGP 0x57F3BF04 9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619 305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04 whom do you want to sponsor today? http://www.stackless.com/ From tismer at stackless.com Wed Jan 7 23:51:29 2004 From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 23:51:29 +0100 Subject: [pypy-dev] next sprint in the snow with the plone? In-Reply-To: <200401061847.22594.aleaxit@yahoo.com> References: <20040106113146.X24246@prim.han.de> <20040106182635.E24246@prim.han.de> <200401061847.22594.aleaxit@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3FFC8D71.9020608@stackless.com> Alex Martelli wrote: > On Tuesday 06 January 2004 06:26 pm, holger krekel wrote: ... >>yes, that's right. Nevertheless, my concern was more how close 26.5 is >>to 30 because it's possible that there are "too many" projects with >>points higher than 26.5 ... maybe i didn't use the right mathematical >>terms or so :-) > > > Ah, yes, of course -- it's an issue of statistics rather than maths. Even if > we had 29.5 out of 30, it would be no use if there were funds enough for > just (say) 100 projects, and 101 other projects had a full 30/30!-) And of > course we have no way to know about it until we're told... This is correct. My hope is just, as expressed in another message, that there is a certain noise level of "we need to find something" results. I think they were applied to us, and I hope to others as well, lowering the results of all competitors a little bit. If so, then we are looking really good, I guess. ciao - chris -- Christian Tismer :^) Mission Impossible 5oftware : Have a break! Take a ride on Python's Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a : *Starship* http://starship.python.net/ 14109 Berlin : PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/ work +49 30 89 09 53 34 home +49 30 802 86 56 mobile +49 173 24 18 776 PGP 0x57F3BF04 9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619 305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04 whom do you want to sponsor today? http://www.stackless.com/ From hpk at trillke.net Thu Jan 8 01:37:04 2004 From: hpk at trillke.net (holger krekel) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 01:37:04 +0100 Subject: [pypy-dev] next sprint in the snow with the plone? In-Reply-To: <3FFC8C94.9000608@stackless.com>; from tismer@stackless.com on Wed, Jan 07, 2004 at 11:47:48PM +0100 References: <20040106113146.X24246@prim.han.de> <20040106182635.E24246@prim.han.de> <3FFC8C94.9000608@stackless.com> Message-ID: <20040108013704.K24246@prim.han.de> [Christian Tismer Wed, Jan 07, 2004 at 11:47:48PM +0100] > holger krekel wrote: > > ... > > > yes, that's right. Nevertheless, my concern was more how close 26.5 is > > to 30 because it's possible that there are "too many" projects with > > points higher than 26.5 ... maybe i didn't use the right mathematical > > terms or so :-) > > Yup. Logarithmic scale would only count if this were > an absolute measure. Since it appears to be relative, > logs or anything else don't count, just the number > of competitors above our score counts. > > I forwarded the results to Mark Achtman from MPIIB, > who seems to have some experience with EU funding, > and his reaction was *very* positive, "a real good chance". > > So I'll repeat this here, "a real good chance" and hope for the best. I like to think so, too. > p.s.: The analysis of that evaluation doesn't suggest that we > had too experienced reviewers. hmmm, I can't conclude this from the evaluation grid. It's only two pages, actually just one page with a evaluation table. The 6 sentences judging the different aspects of our proposal seem to be quite to the point. I don't know how you could do better in *one* sentence :-) > That state of the art argument > is rather vague and misplaced, since we are going beyond > state of the art in certain areas. Well, they mostly reiterate what we are saying in the proposal IIRC so they can't be wrong ... on a "pure" theoretical side we are not pushing the envelope too much last time i checked :-) cheers, holger From arigo at tunes.org Tue Jan 13 14:18:57 2004 From: arigo at tunes.org (Armin Rigo) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:18:57 +0000 Subject: [pypy-dev] PyCon / sprints Message-ID: <20040113131857.GA2012@vicky.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Hello everybody, The proposal deadline for PyCon in in two days (Jan 15). Is anyone going to attend? It seems that the motivation to go there has dropped. And it is much too early to even start thinking about a sprint there, so it most probably won't happen. No sprint is fixed. The Austria sprint isn't sure at the moment. Then there are many vague ideas around at the time, all in April (Easter is 11 April): the ACCU conference (before or after); Switzerland (April is university holidays so sprint rooms are easy to find); Dublin? Elsewhere? A bientot, Armin. From jacob at strakt.com Tue Jan 13 14:31:20 2004 From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:31:20 +0100 Subject: [pypy-dev] PyCon / sprints In-Reply-To: <20040113131857.GA2012@vicky.ecs.soton.ac.uk> References: <20040113131857.GA2012@vicky.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Message-ID: <200401131431.20184.jacob@strakt.com> On tisdag 13 januari 2004 14.18, Armin Rigo wrote: > Hello everybody, > > The proposal deadline for PyCon in in two days (Jan 15). Is anyone going to > attend? It seems that the motivation to go there has dropped. And it is > much too early to even start thinking about a sprint there, so it most > probably won't happen. > > No sprint is fixed. The Austria sprint isn't sure at the moment. Then > there are many vague ideas around at the time, all in April (Easter is 11 > April): the ACCU conference (before or after); Switzerland (April is > university holidays so sprint rooms are easy to find); Dublin? Elsewhere? It looks as if Laura and I may be the only Pypy people who are going to Pycon. Since I think it would be a pity to not have a presentation of the Pypy project there, I think I should propose to give one. If somebody else who is better suited for the job is going, plese speak up. Otherwise I will send in my proposal tomorrow. Jacob Hall?n From lac at strakt.com Tue Jan 13 14:36:39 2004 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:36:39 +0100 Subject: [pypy-dev] PyCon / sprints In-Reply-To: Message from Armin Rigo of "Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:18:57 GMT." <20040113131857.GA2012@vicky.ecs.soton.ac.uk> References: <20040113131857.GA2012@vicky.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Message-ID: <200401131336.i0DDadvG006913@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> In a message of Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:18:57 GMT, Armin Rigo writes: >Hello everybody, > >The proposal deadline for PyCon in in two days (Jan 15). Is anyone going >to >attend? It seems that the motivation to go there has dropped. And it is > much >too early to even start thinking about a sprint there, so it most probabl >y >won't happen. Jacob and I will probably be in town then anyhow. And the Sprint situation is as follows: Jeremy Hilton is organising them. Space is free. Accomodation is not, and that is the killer in D.C. I have told him that if we get our funding, we would probably want to have a sprint there, and if we don't get our funding we are probably not coming. He is fine with this. > >No sprint is fixed. The Austria sprint isn't sure at the moment. Then t >here >are many vague ideas around at the time, all in April (Easter is 11 April >): >the ACCU conference (before or after); Switzerland (April is university >holidays so sprint rooms are easy to find); Dublin? Elsewhere? Jacob and I will not be able to make it then, but don't let that stop you .... > > >A bientot, > >Armin. > Laura From hpk at trillke.net Tue Jan 13 14:45:39 2004 From: hpk at trillke.net (holger krekel) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:45:39 +0100 Subject: [pypy-dev] PyCon / sprints In-Reply-To: <200401131431.20184.jacob@strakt.com>; from jacob@strakt.com on Tue, Jan 13, 2004 at 02:31:20PM +0100 References: <20040113131857.GA2012@vicky.ecs.soton.ac.uk> <200401131431.20184.jacob@strakt.com> Message-ID: <20040113144539.B15118@prim.han.de> [Jacob Hall?n Tue, Jan 13, 2004 at 02:31:20PM +0100] > On tisdag 13 januari 2004 14.18, Armin Rigo wrote: > > Hello everybody, > > > > The proposal deadline for PyCon in in two days (Jan 15). Is anyone going to > > attend? It seems that the motivation to go there has dropped. And it is > > much too early to even start thinking about a sprint there, so it most > > probably won't happen. > > > > No sprint is fixed. The Austria sprint isn't sure at the moment. Then > > there are many vague ideas around at the time, all in April (Easter is 11 > > April): the ACCU conference (before or after); Switzerland (April is > > university holidays so sprint rooms are easy to find); Dublin? Elsewhere? > > It looks as if Laura and I may be the only Pypy people who are going to Pycon. > Since I think it would be a pity to not have a presentation of the Pypy > project there, I think I should propose to give one. If somebody else who is > better suited for the job is going, plese speak up. Otherwise I will send in > my proposal tomorrow. cool. i'd say go ahead and i volunteer to review the proposal if you want me to. I am still thinking of going but it's below 50% chance. cheers, holger From lac at strakt.com Tue Jan 13 14:53:37 2004 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:53:37 +0100 Subject: [pypy-dev] PyCon / sprints In-Reply-To: Message from Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?= of "Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:31:20 +0100." <200401131431.20184.jacob@strakt.com> References: <20040113131857.GA2012@vicky.ecs.soton.ac.uk> <200401131431.20184.jacob@strakt.com> Message-ID: <200401131353.i0DDrcHW007003@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> In a message of Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:31:20 +0100, Jacob Hall?n writes: >On tisdag 13 januari 2004 14.18, Armin Rigo wrote: >> Hello everybody, >> >> The proposal deadline for PyCon in in two days (Jan 15). Is anyone goin >g to >> attend? It seems that the motivation to go there has dropped. And it >is >> much too early to even start thinking about a sprint there, so it most >> probably won't happen. >> >> No sprint is fixed. The Austria sprint isn't sure at the moment. Then >> there are many vague ideas around at the time, all in April (Easter is >11 >> April): the ACCU conference (before or after); Switzerland (April is >> university holidays so sprint rooms are easy to find); Dublin? Elsewhe >re? > >It looks as if Laura and I may be the only Pypy people who are going to P >ycon. >Since I think it would be a pity to not have a presentation of the Pypy >project there, I think I should propose to give one. If somebody else who > is >better suited for the job is going, plese speak up. Otherwise I will send > in >my proposal tomorrow. > >Jacob Hall?n OSCON has just asked me for a paper as well. It is back in Portland, http://conferences.oreillynet.com/os2004/ July 26-30. If you write one 'from the PyPy development team' then if we all go to Pycon anyway, we could let Armin or somebody else do some of the talking .... Laura From anna at aleax.it Tue Jan 13 14:53:58 2004 From: anna at aleax.it (Anna Ravenscroft) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:53:58 +0100 Subject: [pypy-dev] PyCon / sprints Message-ID: <200401131453.58329.anna@aleax.it> I will be attending PyCon. I hope to see other PyPy folks there. Anna -- There is a type 3 error in which your mind goes totally blank whenever you try to remember which is which of type 1 and type 2. -Richard Dawkins From aleaxit at yahoo.com Tue Jan 13 15:03:12 2004 From: aleaxit at yahoo.com (Alex Martelli) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:03:12 +0100 Subject: [pypy-dev] PyCon / sprints In-Reply-To: <200401131353.i0DDrcHW007003@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <20040113131857.GA2012@vicky.ecs.soton.ac.uk> <200401131431.20184.jacob@strakt.com> <200401131353.i0DDrcHW007003@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <200401131503.12412.aleaxit@yahoo.com> On Tuesday 13 January 2004 02:53 pm, Laura Creighton wrote: ... > OSCON has just asked me for a paper as well. It is back in Portland, > http://conferences.oreillynet.com/os2004/ July 26-30. If you write one > 'from the PyPy development team' then if we all go to Pycon anyway, > we could let Armin or somebody else do some of the talking .... If you need a pypy'er to present (and co-write) a paper on pypy for Oscon, I can gladly volunteer. But I won't be at Pycon, sigh. Alex From lac at strakt.com Tue Jan 13 15:10:23 2004 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:10:23 +0100 Subject: [pypy-dev] PyCon / sprints In-Reply-To: Message from Alex Martelli of "Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:03:12 +0100." <200401131503.12412.aleaxit@yahoo.com> References: <20040113131857.GA2012@vicky.ecs.soton.ac.uk> <200401131431.20184.jacob@strakt.com> <200401131353.i0DDrcHW007003@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <200401131503.12412.aleaxit@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200401131410.i0DEANxh007127@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> In a message of Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:03:12 +0100, Alex Martelli writes: >On Tuesday 13 January 2004 02:53 pm, Laura Creighton wrote: > ... >> OSCON has just asked me for a paper as well. It is back in Portland, >> http://conferences.oreillynet.com/os2004/ July 26-30. If you write one >> 'from the PyPy development team' then if we all go to Pycon anyway, >> we could let Armin or somebody else do some of the talking .... > >If you need a pypy'er to present (and co-write) a paper on pypy for Oscon >, I >can gladly volunteer. But I won't be at Pycon, sigh. > > >Alex That sounds good. Plus if we get the funding, I want to write the 'how to get your OS project funded by the EU' paper. Laura From jriehl at cs.uchicago.edu Tue Jan 13 19:08:34 2004 From: jriehl at cs.uchicago.edu (Jonathan David Riehl) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:08:34 -0600 (CST) Subject: [pypy-dev] PyCon / sprints In-Reply-To: <20040113131857.GA2012@vicky.ecs.soton.ac.uk> References: <20040113131857.GA2012@vicky.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hey all, I'll talk to my advisor (Dave Beazley) some more about PyCon. They were trying to recruit him to be on the committe, and I was thinking I'd go if he did. Of course if we could get a stateside sprint going, I'd be very happy to do that as well. -Jon From tinuviel at sparcs.kaist.ac.kr Mon Jan 19 10:30:59 2004 From: tinuviel at sparcs.kaist.ac.kr (Seo Sanghyeon) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:30:59 +0900 Subject: [pypy-dev] How to run in trace objspace? Message-ID: <20040119093059.GA7466@sparcs.kaist.ac.kr> r2832. `python py.py -h' says that '-P' option lets the interpreter run in trace objspace, but it fails. How can I run in the trace objspace? From hpk at trillke.net Mon Jan 19 10:48:45 2004 From: hpk at trillke.net (holger krekel) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 10:48:45 +0100 Subject: [pypy-dev] How to run in trace objspace? In-Reply-To: <20040119093059.GA7466@sparcs.kaist.ac.kr>; from tinuviel@sparcs.kaist.ac.kr on Mon, Jan 19, 2004 at 06:30:59PM +0900 References: <20040119093059.GA7466@sparcs.kaist.ac.kr> Message-ID: <20040119104845.G6696@prim.han.de> Hi Seo! [Seo Sanghyeon Mon, Jan 19, 2004 at 06:30:59PM +0900] > r2832. > > `python py.py -h' says that '-P' option lets the interpreter > run in trace objspace, but it fails. How can I run in the > trace objspace? i think this option is a left over and should be deleted. You are actually supposed to run 'python tool/traceinteractive.py' with the '-T' or '-S' option. I just fixed two minor glitches in this file. Note, that the completer in there doesn't really work (Richard, what is that 'GERE' supposed to mean? :-) We certainly want to perform some cleanup and unification on our "frontend" scripts so that probably only 'py.py' remains and the rest goes ... cheers, holger From rxe at ukshells.co.uk Mon Jan 19 11:30:00 2004 From: rxe at ukshells.co.uk (Richard Emslie) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 10:30:00 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [pypy-dev] How to run in trace objspace? In-Reply-To: <20040119104845.G6696@prim.han.de> References: <20040119093059.GA7466@sparcs.kaist.ac.kr> <20040119104845.G6696@prim.han.de> Message-ID: Hi Holger, On Mon, 19 Jan 2004, holger krekel wrote: > Hi Seo! > > [Seo Sanghyeon Mon, Jan 19, 2004 at 06:30:59PM +0900] > > r2832. > > > > `python py.py -h' says that '-P' option lets the interpreter > > run in trace objspace, but it fails. How can I run in the > > trace objspace? > > i think this option is a left over and should be deleted. You are > actually supposed to run 'python tool/traceinteractive.py' with > the '-T' or '-S' option. I just fixed two minor glitches in this file. > Note, that the completer in there doesn't really work (Richard, what is > that 'GERE' supposed to mean? :-) Means I shouldn't hack in hotels till the early hours ;-) I've tidied things up a little in there and fixed the completer (which should be some other completer :-) ) > > We certainly want to perform some cleanup and unification > on our "frontend" scripts so that probably only 'py.py' remains > and the rest goes ... > Yes! Cheers, Richard From gherman at darwin.in-berlin.de Mon Jan 19 16:12:04 2004 From: gherman at darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:12:04 +0100 Subject: [pypy-dev] An opportunity for PyPy/Stackless? Message-ID: Sun Invites IBM, Cray To Work On New Computer Language [...] "Java has made it easy to program using a small number of threads. But in this [technical computing] world you have to handle thou- sands or hundreds of thousands of threads. We need the right lan- guage constructs to do that," Mitchell said. http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB20031217S0001 From jeremy at alum.mit.edu Mon Jan 19 17:00:36 2004 From: jeremy at alum.mit.edu (Jeremy Hylton) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 11:00:36 -0500 Subject: [pypy-dev] An opportunity for PyPy/Stackless? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1074528035.14813.113.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-01-19 at 10:12, Dinu Gherman wrote: > Sun Invites IBM, Cray To Work On New Computer Language > > [...] > > "Java has made it easy to program using a small number of threads. > But in this [technical computing] world you have to handle thou- > sands or hundreds of thousands of threads. We need the right lan- > guage constructs to do that," Mitchell said. > > http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB20031217S0001 This is part of a DARPA project to support supercomputing in the US. Not sure it's a great fit for Python. Will a super-optimized Python program approach the performance of a super-optimized parallel Fortran program? Jeremy From tismer at stackless.com Mon Jan 19 17:10:43 2004 From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:10:43 +0100 Subject: [pypy-dev] An opportunity for PyPy/Stackless? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <400C0183.1030702@stackless.com> Dinu Gherman wrote: > Sun Invites IBM, Cray To Work On New Computer Language > > [...] > > "Java has made it easy to program using a small number of threads. > But in this [technical computing] world you have to handle thou- > sands or hundreds of thousands of threads. We need the right lan- > guage constructs to do that," Mitchell said. Interesting! Maybe I should try to market Stackless to them now, and PyPy later :-) -- Christian Tismer :^) Mission Impossible 5oftware : Have a break! Take a ride on Python's Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a : *Starship* http://starship.python.net/ 14109 Berlin : PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/ work +49 30 89 09 53 34 home +49 30 802 86 56 mobile +49 173 24 18 776 PGP 0x57F3BF04 9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619 305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04 whom do you want to sponsor today? http://www.stackless.com/ From tismer at stackless.com Mon Jan 19 17:13:18 2004 From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:13:18 +0100 Subject: [pypy-dev] An opportunity for PyPy/Stackless? In-Reply-To: <1074528035.14813.113.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1074528035.14813.113.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <400C021E.1000101@stackless.com> Jeremy Hylton wrote: ... > This is part of a DARPA project to support supercomputing in the US. > Not sure it's a great fit for Python. Will a super-optimized Python > program approach the performance of a super-optimized parallel Fortran > program? Probably not with Stackless, since this is still Python. But with PyPy, thje generated super-computing program might be optimized and specialized away that much, that all objects are broken down into primitives, and then, in fact, "Python" can outperform optimized Fortran. maybe even better than Fortran, since the algorithm for generating this optimized code was written in a high level language. :-) -- Christian Tismer :^) Mission Impossible 5oftware : Have a break! Take a ride on Python's Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a : *Starship* http://starship.python.net/ 14109 Berlin : PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/ work +49 30 89 09 53 34 home +49 30 802 86 56 mobile +49 173 24 18 776 PGP 0x57F3BF04 9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619 305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04 whom do you want to sponsor today? http://www.stackless.com/ From gherman at darwin.in-berlin.de Tue Jan 20 17:14:39 2004 From: gherman at darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:14:39 +0100 Subject: [pypy-dev] Nokia going Perl Message-ID: FYI: Nokia to release Perl for smartphones http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/64/34943.html Laura, please tell Sony-Ericsson if they'd go for (Py)Python I'd become a switcher... :-/ Dinu From faassen at infrae.com Thu Jan 22 11:57:06 2004 From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:57:06 +0100 Subject: [pypy-dev] Nokia going Perl In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040122105706.GA18340@vet.uu.nl> Dinu Gherman wrote: > FYI: > > Nokia to release Perl for smartphones > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/64/34943.html > > Laura, please tell Sony-Ericsson if they'd go for (Py)Python > I'd become a switcher... :-/ The PSU (which does not exist) twisted some arms in Finland, and now it's Python: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/64/35040.html Regards, Martijn From hpk at trillke.net Thu Jan 22 13:08:23 2004 From: hpk at trillke.net (holger krekel) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 13:08:23 +0100 Subject: [pypy-dev] Nokia going Perl In-Reply-To: <20040122105706.GA18340@vet.uu.nl>; from faassen@infrae.com on Thu, Jan 22, 2004 at 11:57:06AM +0100 References: <20040122105706.GA18340@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <20040122130823.X6696@prim.han.de> [Martijn Faassen Thu, Jan 22, 2004 at 11:57:06AM +0100] > Dinu Gherman wrote: > > FYI: > > > > Nokia to release Perl for smartphones > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/64/34943.html > > > > Laura, please tell Sony-Ericsson if they'd go for (Py)Python > > I'd become a switcher... :-/ > > The PSU (which does not exist) twisted some arms in Finland, and now > it's Python: > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/64/35040.html thanks to the PSU then, i guess, even if it doesn't exist. holger From opraeconnection-owner at lists.opraonline.org Tue Jan 27 13:35:39 2004 From: opraeconnection-owner at lists.opraonline.org (opraeconnection-owner at lists.opraonline.org) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 07:35:39 -0500 Subject: [pypy-dev] Article rejected, un-authorized poster of pypy-dev@codespeak.net Message-ID: <20040127073539187.AA4BD1C51F@lists.opraonline.org> Article rejected, un-authorized poster of pypy-dev at codespeak.net Received: from codespeak.net [80.140.116.78] by lists.opraonline.org with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.04) id AB16C7601EA; Tue, 27 Jan 2004 07:35:34 -0500 From: pypy-dev at codespeak.net To: opraeconnection at lists.opraonline.org Subject: test Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 13:23:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_DD5B1793.F1C46C56" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-Id: <200401270735312.SM00192 at codespeak.net> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_DD5B1793.F1C46C56 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mail transaction failed. 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policies In-Reply-To: <20040127073539187.AA4BD1C51F@lists.opraonline.org>; from opraeconnection-owner@lists.opraonline.org on Tue, Jan 27, 2004 at 07:35:39AM -0500 References: <20040127073539187.AA4BD1C51F@lists.opraonline.org> Message-ID: <20040127133642.V6696@prim.han.de> [opraeconnection-owner at lists.opraonline.org Tue, Jan 27, 2004 at 07:35:39AM -0500] > Article rejected, un-authorized poster of pypy-dev at codespeak.net as many of you probably know by now this is a *virus* so just ignore it. I guess we should either restrict the posting policy on codespeak and/or use some more filters (we are currently only using RBL filters, no content based filters). I am a bit hesitant to disallow non-members of the list posting to pypy-dev. Would this even work for the people reading the list over the gmane news/mail gateway? I doubt it. However, for the time beeing, i'll experiment with holding non-members postings and see what happens ... Anyone out there who integrated spambayes and mailman in a nice manner and would like to give some advice? Otherwise i'll just go ahead and try to see what i can do .... cheers, holger